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Grand Pianos
Topic Started: Dec 19 2016, 03:09 PM (318 Views)
Ewill
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I'm beginning to wonder if there's an entire trend passing me by?

Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories within 45 minutes have installed grand pianos seemingly randomly in their atriums and after landing at Heathrow last week there were another 2 random grand pianos installed in corridors between the landing gate and before arriving at the immigration area.

None were being played

What's going on?
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Deleted User
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Its probably some sort of Russian plot.
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Affa
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gansao
Dec 19 2016, 03:43 PM
Its probably some sort of Russian plot.

Or German.

I quite like Wagner.
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Cymru
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gansao
Dec 19 2016, 03:43 PM
Its probably some sort of Russian plot.
Definitely Putin.
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C-too
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Ewill
Dec 19 2016, 03:09 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if there's an entire trend passing me by?

Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories within 45 minutes have installed grand pianos seemingly randomly in their atriums and after landing at Heathrow last week there were another 2 random grand pianos installed in corridors between the landing gate and before arriving at the immigration area.

None were being played

What's going on?
The "super bug" you refer to should have been nipped in the bud four years BEFORE NL were elected to office.
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Ewill
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C-too
Dec 19 2016, 08:34 PM
Ewill
Dec 19 2016, 03:09 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if there's an entire trend passing me by?

Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories within 45 minutes have installed grand pianos seemingly randomly in their atriums and after landing at Heathrow last week there were another 2 random grand pianos installed in corridors between the landing gate and before arriving at the immigration area.

None were being played

What's going on?
The "super bug" you refer to should have been nipped in the bud four years BEFORE NL were elected to office.
So you've got no clue about this piano trend either?
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ranger121
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!jk! !jk!
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Steve K
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Ewill
Dec 19 2016, 03:09 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if there's an entire trend passing me by?

Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories within 45 minutes have installed grand pianos seemingly randomly in their atriums and after landing at Heathrow last week there were another 2 random grand pianos installed in corridors between the landing gate and before arriving at the immigration area.

None were being played

What's going on?
"What's going on?"

I'll guess that you've ruined what would have been a fair question by loading it with irellevant political hate?


Just a stab in the dark like. Is there a prize for getting it right? ;-)


Edited by Steve K, Dec 20 2016, 09:47 PM.
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Ewill
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Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 09:43 PM
Ewill
Dec 19 2016, 03:09 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if there's an entire trend passing me by?

Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories within 45 minutes have installed grand pianos seemingly randomly in their atriums and after landing at Heathrow last week there were another 2 random grand pianos installed in corridors between the landing gate and before arriving at the immigration area.

None were being played

What's going on?
"What's going on?"

I'll guess that you've ruined what would have been a fair question by loading it with irellevant political hate?


Just a stab in the dark like. Is there a prize for getting it right? ;-)


It is a fair question- not political hate - just facts and no irrelevance

2 ''new'' NHS hospitals (which both have huge HAI rates despite their ''newness''-and in house cleaning before anyone jumps on that irrelevance) both have installed grand pianos for some inexplicable reason

How one sterilises a grand piano is beyond my knowledge - but they are just there - parked - unplayed and imo have absolutely no place in a healthcare setting of any type

I had thought it was specifically yet more NHS waste of funds until I saw two grand pianos at Heathrow last week, randomly sited separately between the landing gate and immigration

I'm not a pianist , violin at school was my musical limit (that was hard enough) have no idea what's going on - do you?

Has anyone else noticed random grand pianos in inappropriate places?

There's no prize, I don't know the answer
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Steve K
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yep, like I said. A question about pianos loaded with irrelevant politics

Did you want an answer or just to throw the hate?

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johnofgwent
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Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:09 PM

Has anyone else noticed random grand pianos in inappropriate places?

Not sure.

Saw a youtube clip of one sitting minding its own business in an airport departure lounge when some bloke who clearly knew how to play it, wandered up and "did the jools holland thing" with its ivories

And this NHS trust auctioned a painting off "fairly" recently and used the fairly modest proceeds to acquire such a piano and put it in the waiting area and asked for volunteers who fancied giving it a go ...

https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/news-media/latest-news/grand-piano-bought-southmead-hospital

There was a piano (upright) in the cottage hospital a few miles north of here, the guy we cremated last year used to go and play it, but then again he was the sort of bloke who could not walk past a piano without giving it a go ...

From what I understand, second hand examples are available at modest prices and I suspect there is nothing more "sinister" here than an NHS trust seeking a fairly cheap way to lift the spirits, or at least divert the woes, of a large number of people on what are generally one of the shittier days of their lives.

I cannot play the keyboard. I have not played one since a 32 tonne lorry played an argentinian tango with my mini in 1977 and left me in hospital in agony and with three weeks of my life missing along with what musical ability I had (which amounted to building a moog synthesiser from the "ramp and waveform generator circuit boards" ground up, for the hell of it in my A level years and learning to play it). I do, however, now strum a mean washboard as part of a skiffle outfit.

I rather suspect that if one of these devices has been abandoned in the waiting room of UHW, next time I have an outpatients there (next month in fact) I may give it a tinkle, and if they are looking for volunteers to give it some exercise, I think I know where I can find just the guy.
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Ewill
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Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:17 PM
yep, like I said. A question about pianos loaded with irrelevant politics

Did you want an answer or just to throw the hate?

It's a clearly question about pianos in inappropriate pianos - nothing else

You don't know

so

I'll file your answer with CT's
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Ewill
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johnofgwent
Dec 20 2016, 10:31 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:09 PM

Has anyone else noticed random grand pianos in inappropriate places?

Not sure.

Saw a youtube clip of one sitting minding its own business in an airport departure lounge when some bloke who clearly knew how to play it, wandered up and "did the jools holland thing" with its ivories

And this NHS trust auctioned a painting off "fairly" recently and used the fairly modest proceeds to acquire such a piano and put it in the waiting area and asked for volunteers who fancied giving it a go ...

https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/news-media/latest-news/grand-piano-bought-southmead-hospital

There was a piano (upright) in the cottage hospital a few miles north of here, the guy we cremated last year used to go and play it, but then again he was the sort of bloke who could not walk past a piano without giving it a go ...

From what I understand, second hand examples are available at modest prices and I suspect there is nothing more "sinister" here than an NHS trust seeking a fairly cheap way to lift the spirits, or at least divert the woes, of a large number of people on what are generally one of the shittier days of their lives.

I cannot play the keyboard. I have not played one since a 32 tonne lorry played an argentinian tango with my mini in 1977 and left me in hospital in agony and with three weeks of my life missing along with what musical ability I had (which amounted to building a moog synthesiser from the "ramp and waveform generator circuit boards" ground up, for the hell of it in my A level years and learning to play it). I do, however, now strum a mean washboard as part of a skiffle outfit.

I rather suspect that if one of these devices has been abandoned in the waiting room of UHW, next time I have an outpatients there (next month in fact) I may give it a tinkle, and if they are looking for volunteers to give it some exercise, I think I know where I can find just the guy.
Interesting

There's clearly something in this - though I haven't seen any music events listed on posters there

Maybe they're at Heathrow so any musicians in passport queues can practice their scales?
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Steve K
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Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:34 PM
Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:17 PM
yep, like I said. A question about pianos loaded with irrelevant politics

Did you want an answer or just to throw the hate?

It's a clearly question about pianos in inappropriate pianos - nothing else

You don't know

so

I'll file your answer with CT's
I haven't given you the answer yet. I was wondering why you had to contaminate the question with "Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Was most out of character

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Ewill
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Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:38 PM
johnofgwent
Dec 20 2016, 10:31 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:09 PM

Has anyone else noticed random grand pianos in inappropriate places?

Not sure.

Saw a youtube clip of one sitting minding its own business in an airport departure lounge when some bloke who clearly knew how to play it, wandered up and "did the jools holland thing" with its ivories

And this NHS trust auctioned a painting off "fairly" recently and used the fairly modest proceeds to acquire such a piano and put it in the waiting area and asked for volunteers who fancied giving it a go ...

https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/news-media/latest-news/grand-piano-bought-southmead-hospital

There was a piano (upright) in the cottage hospital a few miles north of here, the guy we cremated last year used to go and play it, but then again he was the sort of bloke who could not walk past a piano without giving it a go ...

From what I understand, second hand examples are available at modest prices and I suspect there is nothing more "sinister" here than an NHS trust seeking a fairly cheap way to lift the spirits, or at least divert the woes, of a large number of people on what are generally one of the shittier days of their lives.

I cannot play the keyboard. I have not played one since a 32 tonne lorry played an argentinian tango with my mini in 1977 and left me in hospital in agony and with three weeks of my life missing along with what musical ability I had (which amounted to building a moog synthesiser from the "ramp and waveform generator circuit boards" ground up, for the hell of it in my A level years and learning to play it). I do, however, now strum a mean washboard as part of a skiffle outfit.

I rather suspect that if one of these devices has been abandoned in the waiting room of UHW, next time I have an outpatients there (next month in fact) I may give it a tinkle, and if they are looking for volunteers to give it some exercise, I think I know where I can find just the guy.
Interesting

There's clearly something in this - though I haven't seen any music events listed on posters there

Maybe they're at Heathrow so any musicians in passport queues can practice their scales?
Apparently there's a piano in Guy's hospital too

https://nicholasjparr.com/2015/05/09/unexpected-findings-within-guys-hospital/
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Ewill
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Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:42 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:34 PM
Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:17 PM
yep, like I said. A question about pianos loaded with irrelevant politics

Did you want an answer or just to throw the hate?

It's a clearly question about pianos in inappropriate pianos - nothing else

You don't know

so

I'll file your answer with CT's
I haven't given you the answer yet. I was wondering why you had to contaminate the question with "Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Was most out of character

Facts -NHS- PFI-Superbug factories-Gordon the moron

Never mind
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johnofgwent
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Paris Airport

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8WsVcaPwQ

Paris Railway (Any Schoolboy should be able to tell you the sign says "for you to play")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGJUxiwZ1yk

Two "dudes" at St Pancras (LOVE the comment "ere in the vid he says it's Kings Cross" WTF)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkP8SxnaG7E

It seems simple to me. They're cheap (try selling one on ebay and see how far you get) they need no electric even a grand is hardly causing an obstruction in comeof those concourses and the more i think on, the more I realise the six blokes I know who CAN tinkle ivories and get applause, beer, money or even all three would, if stuck in some lousy waiting area, actually fight like rats in a sack to give those keys a thumping, just to kill the boredom.
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Ewill
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johnofgwent
Dec 20 2016, 11:04 PM
Paris Airport

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF8WsVcaPwQ

Paris Railway (Any Schoolboy should be able to tell you the sign says "for you to play")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGJUxiwZ1yk

Two "dudes" at St Pancras (LOVE the comment "ere in the vid he says it's Kings Cross" WTF)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkP8SxnaG7E

It seems simple to me. They're cheap (try selling one on ebay and see how far you get) they need no electric even a grand is hardly causing an obstruction in comeof those concourses and the more i think on, the more I realise the six blokes I know who CAN tinkle ivories and get applause, beer, money or even all three would, if stuck in some lousy waiting area, actually fight like rats in a sack to give those keys a thumping, just to kill the boredom.
I suppose random pianos are better than random bagpipes!
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RoofGardener
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Definition of a Gentleman.

One who CAN play the bagpipes, but who DOESN'T ! :P
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C-too
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Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 08:13 PM
C-too
Dec 19 2016, 08:34 PM
Ewill
Dec 19 2016, 03:09 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if there's an entire trend passing me by?

Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories within 45 minutes have installed grand pianos seemingly randomly in their atriums and after landing at Heathrow last week there were another 2 random grand pianos installed in corridors between the landing gate and before arriving at the immigration area.

None were being played

What's going on?
The "super bug" you refer to should have been nipped in the bud four years BEFORE NL were elected to office.
So you've got no clue about this piano trend either?
And you continue to exaggerate your comments in order to undermine Brown and the NHS. Now if you had just stuck to pianos :)
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C-too
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Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:50 PM
Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:42 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I haven't given you the answer yet. I was wondering why you had to contaminate the question with "Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Was most out of character

Facts -NHS- PFI-Superbug factories-Gordon the moron

Never mind
:facepalm: Your subjective bias has been well noticed.
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Affa
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Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:50 PM
Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:42 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I haven't given you the answer yet. I was wondering why you had to contaminate the question with "Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Was most out of character

Facts -NHS- PFI-Superbug factories-Gordon the moron

Never mind

Do you really want to go into why MRSA took hold and became super resistant?

Fact - it was not until New Labour that patients were routinely screened for MRSA.
Fact - Prior to NL such infections were not recorded on death certificates as a contributary factor.
Fact - A memo was posted in the Library lobby at Westminster following a Cabinet decision that concluded that the cost of deep cleaning was not justified by contraction rates. J Major's cabinet.
MRSA took hold and increased its resilience due to failure to eradicate it when it was very much easier, and less costly to do so.
This at a time we are since told was a golden period for UK economic prosperity/growth.
That last is the only statement that carries a falsehood.




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Ewill
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Affa
Dec 22 2016, 06:12 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:50 PM
Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:42 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Was most out of character

Facts -NHS- PFI-Superbug factories-Gordon the moron

Never mind

Do you really want to go into why MRSA took hold and became super resistant?

Fact - it was not until New Labour that patients were routinely screened for MRSA.
Fact - Prior to NL such infections were not recorded on death certificates as a contributary factor.
Fact - A memo was posted in the Library lobby at Westminster following a Cabinet decision that concluded that the cost of deep cleaning was not justified by contraction rates. J Major's cabinet.
MRSA took hold and increased its resilience due to failure to eradicate it when it was very much easier, and less costly to do so.
This at a time we are since told was a golden period for UK economic prosperity/growth.
That last is the only statement that carries a falsehood.




Yet another one trying to defend superbug factories (BUPA of course advertise treatment in clean hospitals , to keep on topic I've never seen a random piano in a private hospital)

This list is not exhaustive and covers only the most common superbugS contracted by hospital patients. MRSA is but one of a long list

Superbugs Caught in Hospitals


Below is a list of the most common superbugs that you can catch in a hospital. It details what the disease is, the symptoms and most importantly the treatment. For more information .

•Acinetobacter Baumannii

•Clostridium Difficile

•CRKP

•E.coli

•ESBL

•MRSA

•NDM-1

•Norovirus

•Pseudomonas Aeruginosa

•Streptococcus

•VRE

http://www.rentokil-hygiene.co.uk/specialist-disinfection/healthcare-cleaning-services/superbugs-caught-in-hospitals/
Edited by Ewill, Dec 22 2016, 07:15 PM.
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Cymru
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Affa
Dec 22 2016, 06:12 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:50 PM
Steve K
Dec 20 2016, 10:42 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Was most out of character

Facts -NHS- PFI-Superbug factories-Gordon the moron

Never mind

Do you really want to go into why MRSA took hold and became super resistant?

Fact - it was not until New Labour that patients were routinely screened for MRSA.
Wasn't that because MRSA became a huge problem under New Labour stewardship of the NHS?

Crediting the people for the response to a problem that they were partially responsible for creating seems a bit underhanded to me.
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Affa
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Cymru
Dec 22 2016, 10:00 PM
Affa
Dec 22 2016, 06:12 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Do you really want to go into why MRSA took hold and became super resistant?

Fact - it was not until New Labour that patients were routinely screened for MRSA.
Wasn't that because MRSA became a huge problem under New Labour stewardship of the NHS?

Crediting the people for the response to a problem that they were partially responsible for creating seems a bit underhanded to me.

The problem EXISTED before NL. The severity of it was hidden from the public as my post implied. It was NL that shone the light on it, did something about it, something that would have been easier and more apt had it been done when first recognised.

We do not know, can't know how many patients contracted MRSA prior to 1997 because 1) it wasn't screened for. 2) There were no complete records kept to indicate how many of those there were found to be infected.
Screening REVEALED how many were contaminated, and is not a CAUSE of contamination as your post suggests.
Edited by Affa, Dec 22 2016, 10:52 PM.
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Steve K
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Affa
Dec 22 2016, 10:51 PM
Cymru
Dec 22 2016, 10:00 PM
Affa
Dec 22 2016, 06:12 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"
Wasn't that because MRSA became a huge problem under New Labour stewardship of the NHS?

Crediting the people for the response to a problem that they were partially responsible for creating seems a bit underhanded to me.

The problem EXISTED before NL. The severity of it was hidden from the public as my post implied. It was NL that shone the light on it, did something about it, something that would have been easier and more apt had it been done when first recognised.

We do not know, can't know how many patients contracted MRSA prior to 1997 because 1) it wasn't screened for. 2) There were no complete records kept to indicate how many of those there were found to be infected.
Screening REVEALED how many were contaminated, and is not a CAUSE of contamination as your post suggests.
The parallel outbreak timings in other countries like the USA, Australia and NZ that did not have John Major as PM suggest your assertions are somewhat questionable
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Affa
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Steve K
Dec 22 2016, 11:03 PM
Affa
Dec 22 2016, 10:51 PM
Cymru
Dec 22 2016, 10:00 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

The problem EXISTED before NL. The severity of it was hidden from the public as my post implied. It was NL that shone the light on it, did something about it, something that would have been easier and more apt had it been done when first recognised.

We do not know, can't know how many patients contracted MRSA prior to 1997 because 1) it wasn't screened for. 2) There were no complete records kept to indicate how many of those there were found to be infected.
Screening REVEALED how many were contaminated, and is not a CAUSE of contamination as your post suggests.
The parallel outbreak timings in other countries like the USA, Australia and NZ that did not have John Major as PM suggest your assertions are somewhat questionable
ffs this is getting monotonous!

It is widely appreciated (even by EWill) that the Dutch got to grips with the superbug problem best.
Dutch Control MRSA Dated March 2000.
Quote:
 
The major threat is that MRSA strains seen in hospitals have epidemic potential and add to the pre-existing hospital acquired MSSA infections instead of just replacing them. In past two decades MRSA has spread worldwide, becoming an endemic inhabitant of many hospitals


It was recognised long before NL, ignored until NL.

And if you don't believe there was a deliberate cover up, do some research prior to 1997 and just after, on HANSARD.
Everything I 'allege' is there!

MRSA Debate 1997
Edited by Affa, Dec 23 2016, 09:11 AM.
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Affa
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I'll save you all the bother .........
Hansard 1997 MRSA Same as above ........
Quote:
 

When I was ferreting around in the Library, I came across a document that I believe the Department of Health placed there inadvertently. It is a working party report that gives guidelines for the control of epidemic MRSA. It was prepared by Mr. G. Duckworth, secretary to the working party on hospital infection, and it was published in August 1990. I believe that the Department did not mean the document to be in the Library, but meant some other document to be there. Under the heading, "Cost implications of EMRSA", the document says: Infection control costs are always difficult to assess, but there is general agreement that the costs of ignoring strains of EMRSA are higher than those of controlling them, particularly when the costs of potential legal action are included. Litigation by an infected patient is a growing hazard of MRSA outbreaks in hospitals and it is therefore important to demonstrate that well-documented and effective control measures are implemented. No such effective control measures are being implemented by the NHS.

Mr. Andrew Mackinlay
Edited by Affa, Dec 23 2016, 09:24 AM.
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Ewill
Senior Member
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Affa
Dec 23 2016, 09:09 AM
I'll save you all the bother .........
Hansard 1997 MRSA Same as above ........
Quote:
 

When I was ferreting around in the Library, I came across a document that I believe the Department of Health placed there inadvertently. It is a working party report that gives guidelines for the control of epidemic MRSA. It was prepared by Mr. G. Duckworth, secretary to the working party on hospital infection, and it was published in August 1990. I believe that the Department did not mean the document to be in the Library, but meant some other document to be there. Under the heading, "Cost implications of EMRSA", the document says: Infection control costs are always difficult to assess, but there is general agreement that the costs of ignoring strains of EMRSA are higher than those of controlling them, particularly when the costs of potential legal action are included. Litigation by an infected patient is a growing hazard of MRSA outbreaks in hospitals and it is therefore important to demonstrate that well-documented and effective control measures are implemented. No such effective control measures are being implemented by the NHS.

Mr. Andrew Mackinlay
Which part of MRSA is merely one of a long list of superbugs likely to be contracted in hospitals did you not understand
Edited by Ewill, Dec 23 2016, 09:51 AM.
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Ewill
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Affa
Dec 23 2016, 08:46 AM
Steve K
Dec 22 2016, 11:03 PM
Affa
Dec 22 2016, 10:51 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"
The parallel outbreak timings in other countries like the USA, Australia and NZ that did not have John Major as PM suggest your assertions are somewhat questionable
ffs this is getting monotonous!

It is widely appreciated (even by EWill) that the Dutch got to grips with the superbug problem best.
Dutch Control MRSA Dated March 2000.
Quote:
 
The major threat is that MRSA strains seen in hospitals have epidemic potential and add to the pre-existing hospital acquired MSSA infections instead of just replacing them. In past two decades MRSA has spread worldwide, becoming an endemic inhabitant of many hospitals


It was recognised long before NL, ignored until NL.

And if you don't believe there was a deliberate cover up, do some research prior to 1997 and just after, on HANSARD.
Everything I 'allege' is there!

MRSA Debate 1997
More fabrication from you (why do it?)

I've never mentioned the Dutch
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Affa
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Ewill
Dec 23 2016, 09:57 AM

More fabrication from you (why do it?)

I've never mentioned the Dutch

I of course can prove the veracity of my statements.
Can you?

I think not! You HAVE compared the UK SB problem to others, to Holland, and we have had this sort of exchange before ...... but not here.

That you are incensed by the prevalence of this problem is to your credit. That you refuse to accept why it became so persistent is not.
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Ewill
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Affa
Dec 23 2016, 10:06 AM
Ewill
Dec 23 2016, 09:57 AM

More fabrication from you (why do it?)

I've never mentioned the Dutch

I of course can prove the veracity of my statements.
Can you?

I think not! You HAVE compared the UK SB problem to others, to Holland, and we have had this sort of exchange before ...... but not here.

That you are incensed by the prevalence of this problem is to your credit. That you refuse to accept why it became so persistent is not.
I've just searched ''elsewhere''

and can conclude

More fabrication from you (why do it?)

I've never mentioned the Dutch
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Steve K
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Good links Affa thanks

I'd hate to run the NHS. You cannot do everything so in the 1990s they would have to have balanced spending on MRSA that experts told you was a low risk with spending on cancer, kidney machines etc. They made a decision and inevitably some decisions will in hindsight be wrong.

My late father suffered repeated MRSA infections in hospital visits all under NL. What I noticed at the same time was that private hospitals were rigorous in acting against it

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Affa
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Steve K
Dec 23 2016, 01:23 PM
Good links Affa thanks

I'd hate to run the NHS. You cannot do everything so in the 1990s they would have to have balanced spending on MRSA that experts told you was a low risk with spending on cancer, kidney machines etc. They made a decision and inevitably some decisions will in hindsight be wrong.

My late father suffered repeated MRSA infections in hospital visits all under NL. What I noticed at the same time was that private hospitals were rigorous in acting against it


I appreciate the acknowledgement.
I had started to wonder whether it was worthwhile looking for and finding proof of statements made that attracted doubters that thereafter ignore the evidence. You here are not one of those.

I fully understand that minimising costs is a consideration. Deep cleaning is expensive. But screening is cost effective, and should have been a priority. We know that litigation fears were why it wasn't.
How often are such 'swept under the carpet' decisions made to avoid censure, political embarrassment, careers?
Edited by Affa, Dec 23 2016, 04:34 PM.
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C-too
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Cymru
Dec 22 2016, 10:00 PM
Affa
Dec 22 2016, 06:12 PM
Ewill
Dec 20 2016, 10:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"

Do you really want to go into why MRSA took hold and became super resistant?

Fact - it was not until New Labour that patients were routinely screened for MRSA.
Wasn't that because MRSA became a huge problem under New Labour stewardship of the NHS?

Crediting the people for the response to a problem that they were partially responsible for creating seems a bit underhanded to me.
It appears to be the case that no one understood MRSA and there was no known cure. The only way anyone knew there was no known cure and no knowledge on how to combat it is because people were attempting to cure it and combat it.

Apparently it is one of those bugs that most people carry so that would add to the confusion in combatting it. It turned out that despite most people carrying this bug the main problem was down to cleaning.
Was it the privatisation of hospital cleaning introduced by the Tories that opened the gates for increased Hospital Acquired Infections ?
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Ewill
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C-too
Dec 23 2016, 07:40 PM
Cymru
Dec 22 2016, 10:00 PM
Affa
Dec 22 2016, 06:12 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories"
Wasn't that because MRSA became a huge problem under New Labour stewardship of the NHS?

Crediting the people for the response to a problem that they were partially responsible for creating seems a bit underhanded to me.
It appears to be the case that no one understood MRSA and there was no known cure. The only way anyone knew there was no known cure and no knowledge on how to combat it is because people were attempting to cure it and combat it.

Apparently it is one of those bugs that most people carry so that would add to the confusion in combatting it. It turned out that despite most people carrying this bug the main problem was down to cleaning.
Was it the privatisation of hospital cleaning introduced by the Tories that opened the gates for increased Hospital Acquired Infections ?
The majority of hospital cleaning has always remained in house

The two with random pianos I mentioned have never outsourced their hospital cleaning
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Affa
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Steve K
Dec 23 2016, 01:23 PM


My late father suffered repeated MRSA infections in hospital visits all under NL. What I noticed at the same time was that private hospitals were rigorous in acting against it


Loath as I am to remind you of past regrets, did it never occur to you that there are factors, not in any politically contrived context, that can explain why Private Hospitals are less prone to acquiring SB infections?
I'm not suggesting these have better cleaning arrangements, or screening regimes here ..... it has more to do with clientele, both the numbers admitted, and social standing the other.
If it's staffing, if it is isolation, if its age related ........

Think about it.
If the NHS were to perform to the highest possible standards both in care, and in recruitment, it would certainly be the more expensive to maintain.
It is what it is because that is what it is funded to be - was funded to be.


Edited by Affa, Dec 23 2016, 10:52 PM.
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Steve K
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Affa
Dec 23 2016, 10:50 PM
Steve K
Dec 23 2016, 01:23 PM


My late father suffered repeated MRSA infections in hospital visits all under NL. What I noticed at the same time was that private hospitals were rigorous in acting against it


Loath as I am to remind you of past regrets, did it never occur to you that there are factors, not in any politically contrived context, that can explain why Private Hospitals are less prone to acquiring SB infections?
I'm not suggesting these have better cleaning arrangements, or screening regimes here ..... it has more to do with clientele, both the numbers admitted, and social standing the other.
If it's staffing, if it is isolation, if its age related ........

Think about it.
If the NHS were to perform to the highest possible standards both in care, and in recruitment, it would certainly be the more expensive to maintain.
It is what it is because that is what it is funded to be - was funded to be.


There may be some effect from the hospital visitors being more likely to have travelled by public transport so having a wider cocktail of bugs on their clothes

What I noticed was the stricter observance of hand cleaning and enforcing nurses to change clothes from what they wore to travel to work.

But surely the key fact about MRSA is the MR ie Methicillin Resistance and when the bug acquired that resistance through gene mutation? I really don't think you can blame that on any political party
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Affa
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Steve K
Dec 23 2016, 11:41 PM


But surely the key fact about MRSA is the MR ie Methicillin Resistance and when the bug acquired that resistance through gene mutation? I really don't think you can blame that on any political party

There are some that do blame government, the NHS itself, for MRSA infections being a problem, (Two of Gordon the moron's pfi NHS superbug factories), but I have not.
What I did was put the focus on why it gained such a hold at the time you experienced it and why more stringent measures were not put in place to minimise infections until much later than they could have been made the norm we now see.

The government releases monthly stats regarding infection rates - used to be weekly.
MRSA monitoring
The interesting fact is that 73% of cases were contracted outside of hospitals.
The other unwelcome stat is that since 2011 the number of hospital acquired infections is on the increase once again.
The measures that were put in place had a significant result:-
Quote:
 
Based on results from a selection of hospitals across England, the report indicates that there have been large reductions in both MRSA and C. difficile rates since the last survey was conducted in 2006. C. difficile infections fell from 2% of patients becoming infected in 2006 to 0.4% in the 2012 report. MRSA fell even more sharply, from 1.8% of patients affected to less than 0.1%.
NHS UK

What annoys me is that those demanding the NHS is Privatised, has less State funding, will also make the most politically based critiques regarding its failures'difficulties ......... they appear to want excellence but aren't willing to fund such investments.
Edited by Affa, Dec 24 2016, 12:18 AM.
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Ewill
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Affa
Dec 23 2016, 10:50 PM
Steve K
Dec 23 2016, 01:23 PM


My late father suffered repeated MRSA infections in hospital visits all under NL. What I noticed at the same time was that private hospitals were rigorous in acting against it


Loath as I am to remind you of past regrets, did it never occur to you that there are factors, not in any politically contrived context, that can explain why Private Hospitals are less prone to acquiring SB infections?
I'm not suggesting these have better cleaning arrangements, or screening regimes here ..... it has more to do with clientele, both the numbers admitted, and social standing the other.
If it's staffing, if it is isolation, if its age related ........

Think about it.
If the NHS were to perform to the highest possible standards both in care, and in recruitment, it would certainly be the more expensive to maintain.
It is what it is because that is what it is funded to be - was funded to be.


What absolute BS and a post insulting the sick

The NHS contracts services from private hospitals all over the country thus your clientele, both the numbers admitted, and social standing would ''infect'' private hospitals .
All sorts use the NHS - didn't the wicked witch have hers on the NHS ?- Zara Phillips certainly did - and all sorts use private hospitals - some NHS,some privately paid, some on individual insurance, many on company schemes. private medical insurance isn't expensive . The main difference is that private hospitals do not use public sector staff - few who work in the public sector could survive in the private sector.

BUPA still manages to advertise ''treatment in clean hospitals'' in spite of the NHS influx of patients who you imply are of low social standing

Public sector NHS staff have poor attitudes , clean poorly, don't wash hands enough or change gloves often enough, don't insist on every person entering the doors to clean their hands on entry and aren't too bothered because patients are an inconvenience to be treated with contempt and get in the way of the NHS being operated to their personal convenience

I don't care how cheaply it operates, most outcomes are crap and some of the lowest in the developed world

Even if it operated at the highest possible rating it can never be any higher than ''average''
Edited by Ewill, Dec 24 2016, 08:19 PM.
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