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Purpose of EU, Euro 'Was Not to Create Prosperous Europe'
Topic Started: Dec 29 2016, 01:38 AM (1,127 Views)
Phoenix One UK
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Quote:
 
Purpose of EU, Euro 'Was Not to Create Prosperous Europe'

The intention of the European Union as a supranational organization has never been to promote prosperity in Europe, economist and geopolitical analyst Peter Koenig told Sputnik.

...

The interview came after the release of a European Central Bank (ECB) survey which indicated that the gap between the rich and the poor is on the rise in Europe.

Ten percent of eurozone households own more than half the region's wealth, with half a million euros each on average. Meanwhile, the poorest five percent owe more than they possess, and are stuck with negative net worth, according to the survey.

...

"The ECB knows very well what's happening. They are at least partially to blame for the situation when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer," Peter Koenig said. The former World Bank staff member criticized the ECB's monetary policy, saying it "has nothing to do with Europe's realities."

...

Koenig described the EU as not a union in the full sense of the word.

"It has no common constitution, no common political goals and it is too diverse culturally and economically to be united under one currency, the euro, which has been a failure from the beginning," he said.

Koenig also pointed the finger at the EU for doing little to improve people's living standards.

"From the very beginning, the purpose of the European Union and the common currency was not to create a prosperous Europe. It was an idea of the United States to have a Europe which could be subdued, something that is currently happening," he pointed out.

...

"The European bankers are only interested in an instant profit rather than the wellbeing of ordinary people, just like the US banks," he pointed out.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201612281049062953-european-central-bank-survey-euro/


I would had thought much of this was blinking obvious, but had been involved in enough debates to know the obvious is far from obvious for some.

Note the last paragraph quoted, and note that where bailouts are concerned, it is not the people who benefit from such bailouts but banks and financial institutions with taxpayers picking up the tab.
Edited by Steve K, Jan 19 2017, 02:35 PM.
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RoofGardener
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ROFL.

The income disparity within the EU is probably LESS than the global average, and probably on a par with - say - the UK. The EU inducted a number of less-developed countries (Rumania, Greece, Spain etc) in order to help INCREASE their development (and ultimately prosperity), and I think it has worked !

And by what standard has the Euro been a failure ?

I'm deeply suspicious of the EU federalist dream, but economically the Union HAS been reasonably succesfull, taken in the round. (poorer countries have benefited, although at the expense of the richer ones).

Sorry, but when it comes to holding water, my kitchen sieve outperforms this article !
Edited by RoofGardener, Dec 29 2016, 10:03 AM.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 10:00 AM
. .Sorry, but when it comes to holding water, my kitchen sieve outperforms this article !
!clp!

But then the article was on the Russian state propaganda site Sputnik.
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Phoenix One UK
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Steve K
Dec 29 2016, 10:34 AM
RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 10:00 AM
. .Sorry, but when it comes to holding water, my kitchen sieve outperforms this article !
!clp!

But then the article was on the Russian state propaganda site Sputnik.
You could always turn to the BBC.  ::)
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Phoenix One UK
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RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 10:00 AM
ROFL.

The income disparity within the EU is probably LESS than the global average, and probably on a par with - say - the UK. The EU inducted a number of less-developed countries (Rumania, Greece, Spain etc) in order to help INCREASE their development (and ultimately prosperity), and I think it has worked !

And by what standard has the Euro been a failure ?

I'm deeply suspicious of the EU federalist dream, but economically the Union HAS been reasonably succesfull, taken in the round. (poorer countries have benefited, although at the expense of the richer ones).

Sorry, but when it comes to holding water, my kitchen sieve outperforms this article !
We clearly do not agree RG. By what standard would you call the euro a success? A currency that constantly required propping up by member states. And that was even prior to bailouts.
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Steve K
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Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 01:54 PM
Steve K
Dec 29 2016, 10:34 AM
RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 10:00 AM
. .Sorry, but when it comes to holding water, my kitchen sieve outperforms this article !
!clp!

But then the article was on the Russian state propaganda site Sputnik.
You could always turn to the BBC.  ::)
You could stop digging
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RoofGardener
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Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 01:56 PM
RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 10:00 AM
ROFL.

The income disparity within the EU is probably LESS than the global average, and probably on a par with - say - the UK. The EU inducted a number of less-developed countries (Rumania, Greece, Spain etc) in order to help INCREASE their development (and ultimately prosperity), and I think it has worked !

And by what standard has the Euro been a failure ?

I'm deeply suspicious of the EU federalist dream, but economically the Union HAS been reasonably succesfull, taken in the round. (poorer countries have benefited, although at the expense of the richer ones).

Sorry, but when it comes to holding water, my kitchen sieve outperforms this article !
We clearly do not agree RG. By what standard would you call the euro a success? A currency that constantly required propping up by member states. And that was even prior to bailouts.
Did it ? Well, if so, how does that differ from, say, the Dollar, Pound, or Yen ? :)
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Phoenix One UK
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RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 03:43 PM
Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 01:56 PM
RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 10:00 AM
ROFL.

The income disparity within the EU is probably LESS than the global average, and probably on a par with - say - the UK. The EU inducted a number of less-developed countries (Rumania, Greece, Spain etc) in order to help INCREASE their development (and ultimately prosperity), and I think it has worked !

And by what standard has the Euro been a failure ?

I'm deeply suspicious of the EU federalist dream, but economically the Union HAS been reasonably succesfull, taken in the round. (poorer countries have benefited, although at the expense of the richer ones).

Sorry, but when it comes to holding water, my kitchen sieve outperforms this article !
We clearly do not agree RG. By what standard would you call the euro a success? A currency that constantly required propping up by member states. And that was even prior to bailouts.
Did it ? Well, if so, how does that differ from, say, the Dollar, Pound, or Yen ? :)
Dollar is an American/Australian currency. Yen Japanese. Pound sterling British. All have their ups and downs, and all their banks had probably been bailed out by taxpayers at one time or another.

Then there is the euro. It is an EU currency, but not all EU member states adopted that currency. Even non EU member states had bailed out EZ banks more than once. But that is bailing out banks.

All currencies are propped up by its national population. The Japanese Yen had been very good at doing this. Propped up by its own population. But that is the key point, its own population for their own country. The EU is not a country, and its members are sovereign nations, or, at least for the moment. The EU is an organisation. So are the Commonwealth, World Bank, United Nations, etc.

The euro will not survive, and neither will EU, or at least not in their current form. The reasons for this had already been given. It is not even a question of if just when. Then the whole show will start again under some other name.

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RoofGardener
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Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 04:32 PM
....
The euro will not survive, and neither will EU, or at least not in their current form. The reasons for this had already been given. It is not even a question of if just when. Then the whole show will start again under some other name...
The reasons have already been given ? Where and when ?

If the currency is supported by "the people", then... there are more people working in the Eurozone than in any other currency block outside of the Yuan and the Rupee. So on THAT basis, the Euro is more secure than the US Dollar, the Yen, the Pound etcetera.

The Euro may be under pressure, but to say that it will not survive seems... well... unsupported by the current situation ?

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Steve K
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Oh look ^ it's the annual prediction by Ph 1 of the death of the Euro. How many times have we seen people confidently predict its imminent demise and gone very quiet when it didn't? Lots

Still thanks for giving us all another more original laugh
Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 04:32 PM
Dollar is an American/Australian currency . .

And just how do you get to that idiocy?




Edited by Steve K, Dec 29 2016, 06:56 PM.
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Phoenix One UK
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Steve K
Dec 29 2016, 06:55 PM
Oh look ^ it's the annual prediction by Ph 1 of the death of the Euro. How many times have we seen people confidently predict its imminent demise and gone very quiet when it didn't? Lots

Still thanks for giving us all another more original laugh
Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 04:32 PM
Dollar is an American/Australian currency . .

And just how do you get to that idiocy?




He did not specify which dollar he was referring to. USA and Australia use dollars. :)
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RoofGardener
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They do indeed, as do Canada, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Liberia, Jamaica, Namibia, East Timor, Ecuador, El Salvador, Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Palau, the Caribbean Netherlands, and Panama.

But in casual conversation, and in relation to financial matters, the phrase "the Dollar" usually refers to the US Dollar ?

:)
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Phoenix One UK
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RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 08:54 PM
They do indeed, as do Canada, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Liberia, Jamaica, Namibia, East Timor, Ecuador, El Salvador, Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Palau, the Caribbean Netherlands, and Panama.

But in casual conversation, and in relation to financial matters, the phrase "the Dollar" usually refers to the US Dollar ?

:)
Not to me it doesn't. I spent 30 years in Australia, so when I hear dollar, it is the Aussie dollar that first springs to mind. :)
Edited by Phoenix One UK, Dec 29 2016, 08:57 PM.
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Steve K
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Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 08:57 PM
RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 08:54 PM
They do indeed, as do Canada, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Liberia, Jamaica, Namibia, East Timor, Ecuador, El Salvador, Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Palau, the Caribbean Netherlands, and Panama.

But in casual conversation, and in relation to financial matters, the phrase "the Dollar" usually refers to the US Dollar ?

:)
Not to me it doesn't. I spent 30 years in Australia, so when I hear dollar, it is the Aussie dollar that first springs to mind. :)
But they are not a common currency are they? Do think through what you post



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Rich
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Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 12:26 AM
Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 08:57 PM
RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 08:54 PM
They do indeed, as do Canada, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Liberia, Jamaica, Namibia, East Timor, Ecuador, El Salvador, Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Palau, the Caribbean Netherlands, and Panama.

But in casual conversation, and in relation to financial matters, the phrase "the Dollar" usually refers to the US Dollar ?

:)
Not to me it doesn't. I spent 30 years in Australia, so when I hear dollar, it is the Aussie dollar that first springs to mind. :)
But they are not a common currency are they? Do think through what you post



Perhaps we can revert back to cowries and coloured beads?
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Alberich
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The purpose of the E.U. was the creation of the supranational state of Europe, and the euro was a stepping stone to that end. An ill-conceived and premature move, but with no other purpose than to bind the using nations ever tighter into the maw of Brussels. A common currency without a common governance was never a good idea, but it was pushed through, and we are where we are, with the poorer southern members tied hand and fist, unable to do anything to rescue their shrinking economies; being drip fed life support by the main beneficiary, Germany, and paying a high price for the privilege!

We are well out of it.
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Rich
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Alberich
Jan 1 2017, 12:28 PM
The purpose of the E.U. was the creation of the supranational state of Europe, and the euro was a stepping stone to that end. An ill-conceived and premature move, but with no other purpose than to bind the using nations ever tighter into the maw of Brussels. A common currency without a common governance was never a good idea, but it was pushed through, and we are where we are, with the poorer southern members tied hand and fist, unable to do anything to rescue their shrinking economies; being drip fed life support by the main beneficiary, Germany, and paying a high price for the privilege!

We are well out of it.
I cannot disagree with that post. :thumbsup:
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Affa
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Does anyone know how Germany has managed to be able to run/rule the EU towards its own ends?
The UK is almost as powerful and has, according to some, been walked over by German led EU intransigence and stonewalling.

Are the Germans better diplomats?

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Rich
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Affa
Jan 1 2017, 12:34 PM
Does anyone know how Germany has managed to be able to run/rule the EU towards its own ends?
The UK is almost as powerful and has, according to some, been walked over by German led EU intransigence and stonewalling.

Are the Germans better diplomats?

No, but it is worth noting that since the demise of Maggie, we have had a very weak and pro Euro governance in the UK.
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Affa
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Rich
Jan 1 2017, 12:40 PM
Affa
Jan 1 2017, 12:34 PM
Does anyone know how Germany has managed to be able to run/rule the EU towards its own ends?
The UK is almost as powerful and has, according to some, been walked over by German led EU intransigence and stonewalling.

Are the Germans better diplomats?

No, but it is worth noting that since the demise of Maggie, we have had a very weak and pro Euro governance in the UK.

I'm betting I have a far better understanding of how Mrs T envisaged the EU taking shape, what she thought it should look like, become, than you have.

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Rich
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Affa
Jan 1 2017, 01:00 PM
Rich
Jan 1 2017, 12:40 PM
Affa
Jan 1 2017, 12:34 PM
Does anyone know how Germany has managed to be able to run/rule the EU towards its own ends?
The UK is almost as powerful and has, according to some, been walked over by German led EU intransigence and stonewalling.

Are the Germans better diplomats?

No, but it is worth noting that since the demise of Maggie, we have had a very weak and pro Euro governance in the UK.

I'm betting I have a far better understanding of how Mrs T envisaged the EU taking shape, what she thought it should look like, become, than you have.

Bet away Affa and good luck, I would not even know how to make out a betting slip, never having been in a turf accountants premises in my life and having no desire to do so.

Please do not "presume" that you know what is in my mind, I have not got to the age of 63 and to being comfortable in life by being stupid.....I take disadvantageous situations in life and turn them to my advantage regardless of who is "running" the country.

You seem like a nice chap, please don't spoil it. !wav!
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Affa
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Rich
Jan 1 2017, 01:17 PM
Affa
Jan 1 2017, 01:00 PM
Rich
Jan 1 2017, 12:40 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

I'm betting I have a far better understanding of how Mrs T envisaged the EU taking shape, what she thought it should look like, become, than you have.

Bet away Affa and good luck, I would not even know how to make out a betting slip, never having been in a turf accountants premises in my life and having no desire to do so.

Please do not "presume" that you know what is in my mind, I have not got to the age of 63 and to being comfortable in life by being stupid.....I take disadvantageous situations in life and turn them to my advantage regardless of who is "running" the country.

You seem like a nice chap, please don't spoil it. !wav!

I wasn't trying to be nasty!
Mrs T did have a vision for the EU, drew up a blueprint ( Delors + Arthur Cockfield - 1985) that paved the pay towards the Single Market. Cockfield was her Commissioner in Europe, and a Conservative MP. He it was that made the plan, a plan endorsed by the other members.

btw did you know that Greenland left the Common Market in 1985.
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Rich
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Affa
Jan 1 2017, 01:41 PM
Rich
Jan 1 2017, 01:17 PM
Affa
Jan 1 2017, 01:00 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Bet away Affa and good luck, I would not even know how to make out a betting slip, never having been in a turf accountants premises in my life and having no desire to do so.

Please do not "presume" that you know what is in my mind, I have not got to the age of 63 and to being comfortable in life by being stupid.....I take disadvantageous situations in life and turn them to my advantage regardless of who is "running" the country.

You seem like a nice chap, please don't spoil it. !wav!

I wasn't trying to be nasty!
Mrs T did have a vision for the EU, drew up a blueprint ( Delors + Arthur Cockfield - 1985) that paved the pay towards the Single Market. Cockfield was her Commissioner in Europe, and a Conservative MP. He it was that made the plan, a plan endorsed by the other members.

btw did you know that Greenland left the Common Market in 1985.
I am afraid that the term "common market" has been long forgotten in the annals of history as the dream of an European superstate overtook what the voters thought they were getting into.


It took the UK 41 fuxxxxg years to realise how lax we have been in protecting our back and our own best interests...fortunately we have now come to our senses and hopefully the ruling elite in Europe will now see the folly of their ways in thinking that THEY know what is best for the individual man in the street.

Of course, what the ruling elite seem to forget that thanks to democracy, that individual in the street has an option when it comes to voting.

The people in power ignore the power of the people at their peril. ;-)
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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RoofGardener
Dec 29 2016, 10:00 AM

And by what standard has the Euro been a failure ?

OK I will bite.

There is some country south of downtown bongo-bongoland in the south american continent that has, stupidly imo, adopted the US dollar as its currency.

Now in truth I cannot actually recall which country it is. But it does not matter.

The point is, that country has no link to the US economy save its superglueing itself to the dollar. It has given up all hope of independent control of its finances and lies at the mercy entirely of the latest spat on Capitol Hill.

Now OK to some extent we all are..

My point is that the Eurozone countries are bonded by a common currency, forced to act when their economies run at a different beat to the bundesbank, and have no political control at all in common.

Which is how Greece got the way it did.

Yes, the Euro may not be a failure by some standards today. But it is a disaster of a pipe dream, stands daily on the abyss, and I sugegst will be mocked mercilessly by my grand daughter's generation as a way of chaining the continent's richest, best performing nations to its most basket case, a hairbrained attempt to create a european dream utopia which in the end will drag them all to hell in a handcart until the zimbabwean dollar looks a good investment...
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Steve K
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Greece got the way it did not because of the Euro, it was actually saved because it was in the EZ

Greece just thought it could keep electing governments who would buy votes with ever more unaffordable giveaways funded by idiot loans. It was always going to end in tears, they've been very lucky the EZ saved them from the abyss.
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Rich
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Steve K
Jan 1 2017, 04:16 PM
Greece got the way it did not because of the Euro, it was actually saved because it was in the EZ

Greece just thought it could keep electing governments who would buy votes with ever more unaffordable giveaways funded by idiot loans. It was always going to end in tears, they've been very lucky the EZ saved them from the abyss.
Greece had a very lax governance that allowed the ultra mega rich living there to evade.....yes, EVADE tax.

Having said that, Greece should not have become a member state until it's currency was aligned with the Euro but the ruling elite in Brussels was in too much of a hurry to enlarge the zone.
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Phoenix One UK
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Steve K
Jan 1 2017, 04:16 PM
Greece got the way it did not because of the Euro, it was actually saved because it was in the EZ

Greece just thought it could keep electing governments who would buy votes with ever more unaffordable giveaways funded by idiot loans. It was always going to end in tears, they've been very lucky the EZ saved them from the abyss.
Greece was not saved, it was bankrupted, and I do mean bankrupted. The only winning move Greece possesses is to ditch the euro and default on its debt. There will be difficulties using this option in short term, but in medium/long term it will benefit. Take Argentina and Iceland for example. They went bust, and look at them now.

Moving on:

Quote:
 
Divided and deluded, Europe faces crisis on every front

https://capx.co/divided-and-deluded-europe-faces-crisis-on-every-front/


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Steve K
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Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 11:31 AM
Steve K
Jan 1 2017, 04:16 PM
Greece got the way it did not because of the Euro, it was actually saved because it was in the EZ

Greece just thought it could keep electing governments who would buy votes with ever more unaffordable giveaways funded by idiot loans. It was always going to end in tears, they've been very lucky the EZ saved them from the abyss.
Greece was not saved, it was bankrupted, and I do mean bankrupted. . . .
!jk! go on show us that wasn't a big fat PorkyPie: by listing a debt it has defaulted on?

Won't hold my breath.

Top tip: even a cheap dictionary will tell you what 'bankrupted' actually means

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Phoenix One UK
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Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 08:46 PM
Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 11:31 AM
Steve K
Jan 1 2017, 04:16 PM
Greece got the way it did not because of the Euro, it was actually saved because it was in the EZ

Greece just thought it could keep electing governments who would buy votes with ever more unaffordable giveaways funded by idiot loans. It was always going to end in tears, they've been very lucky the EZ saved them from the abyss.
Greece was not saved, it was bankrupted, and I do mean bankrupted. . . .
!jk! go on show us that wasn't a big fat PorkyPie: by listing a debt it has defaulted on?

Won't hold my breath.

Top tip: even a cheap dictionary will tell you what 'bankrupted' actually means

Quote:
 
History of Defaults: Greece Did It First; Spain Most Often

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47814564



 ::) !wav!
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Steve K
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Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 10:01 PM
Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 08:46 PM
Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 11:31 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
!jk! go on show us that wasn't a big fat PorkyPie: by listing a debt it has defaulted on?

Won't hold my breath.

Top tip: even a cheap dictionary will tell you what 'bankrupted' actually means

Quote:
 
History of Defaults: Greece Did It First; Spain Most Often

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47814564



 ::) !wav!
!jk!

Do check the facts. They threatened to default but thanks to the EZ mainly, the IMF in part and their debtors also in part they did not default

Never went bankrupt QED
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Phoenix One UK
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Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 10:20 PM
Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 10:01 PM
Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 08:46 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Quote:
 
History of Defaults: Greece Did It First; Spain Most Often

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47814564



 ::) !wav!
!jk!

Do check the facts. They threatened to default but thanks to the EZ mainly, the IMF in part and their debtors also in part they did not default

Never went bankrupt QED
Quote:
 
Personally, I look forward to next week, as we no doubt will be able to add a few more quotes to the following euro zone roundup:

"Spain is not Greece." Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, February 2010.
"Portugal is not Greece." The Economist, April 2010.
"Greece is not Ireland." George Papaconstantinou, Greek Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Spain is neither Ireland nor Portugal." Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Ireland is not in ‘Greek Territory.’" Brian Lenihan, Irish Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Neither Spain nor Portugal is Ireland." Angel Gurria, Secretary-General, OECD, November 2010.
"Spain is not Uganda." Spanish PM Rajoy, June 2012.
“Uganda does not want to be Spain.” (Ugandan Foreign Minister), June 2012.
“Italy is not Spain.” Ed Parker, Fitch MD, June 2012.



I liked the above quote (link already supplied). Now, what do the PIIGS have in common? Note: This is NOT a trick question. :rubchin:

Not even the ECB, IMF nor EZ could save Greece from a technical default, though they did spin it.

Greece is bust. That is a fact. You not accepting that fact does not change it.

Anyway, I am going back to either watching a video or playing some game. :)
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Steve K
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Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 10:29 PM
Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 10:20 PM
Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 10:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepHistory of Defaults: Greece Did It First; Spain Most Often

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47814564
!jk!

Do check the facts. They threatened to default but thanks to the EZ mainly, the IMF in part and their debtors also in part they did not default

Never went bankrupt QED
Quote:
 
Personally, I look forward to next week, as we no doubt will be able to add a few more quotes to the following euro zone roundup:

"Spain is not Greece." Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, February 2010.
"Portugal is not Greece." The Economist, April 2010.
"Greece is not Ireland." George Papaconstantinou, Greek Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Spain is neither Ireland nor Portugal." Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Ireland is not in ‘Greek Territory.’" Brian Lenihan, Irish Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Neither Spain nor Portugal is Ireland." Angel Gurria, Secretary-General, OECD, November 2010.
"Spain is not Uganda." Spanish PM Rajoy, June 2012.
“Uganda does not want to be Spain.” (Ugandan Foreign Minister), June 2012.
“Italy is not Spain.” Ed Parker, Fitch MD, June 2012.



I liked the above quote (link already supplied). Now, what do the PIIGS have in common? Note: This is NOT a trick question. :rubchin:

Not even the ECB, IMF nor EZ could save Greece from a technical default, though they did spin it.

Greece is bust. That is a fact. You not accepting that fact does not change it.

Anyway, I am going back to either watching a video or playing some game. :)
Running away?

I know it's important to you to deny that the EZ bailed out Greece but it's a fact. So when you post "and I do mean bankrupt" it's a desperate play and ironically a bankrupt one

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Phoenix One UK
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Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 10:34 PM
Phoenix One UK
Jan 4 2017, 10:29 PM
Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 10:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepHistory of Defaults: Greece Did It First; Spain Most Often

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47814564
Quote:
 
Personally, I look forward to next week, as we no doubt will be able to add a few more quotes to the following euro zone roundup:

"Spain is not Greece." Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, February 2010.
"Portugal is not Greece." The Economist, April 2010.
"Greece is not Ireland." George Papaconstantinou, Greek Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Spain is neither Ireland nor Portugal." Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Ireland is not in ‘Greek Territory.’" Brian Lenihan, Irish Finance Minister, November 2010.
"Neither Spain nor Portugal is Ireland." Angel Gurria, Secretary-General, OECD, November 2010.
"Spain is not Uganda." Spanish PM Rajoy, June 2012.
“Uganda does not want to be Spain.” (Ugandan Foreign Minister), June 2012.
“Italy is not Spain.” Ed Parker, Fitch MD, June 2012.



I liked the above quote (link already supplied). Now, what do the PIIGS have in common? Note: This is NOT a trick question. :rubchin:

Not even the ECB, IMF nor EZ could save Greece from a technical default, though they did spin it.

Greece is bust. That is a fact. You not accepting that fact does not change it.

Anyway, I am going back to either watching a video or playing some game. :)
Running away?

I know it's important to you to deny that the EZ bailed out Greece but it's a fact. So when you post "and I do mean bankrupt" it's a desperate play and ironically a bankrupt one

Thought I would stick round a few minutes longer Steve, especially as I seen you waiting in the wings. Not biting, and my posts stand. !wav!
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Steve K
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So as i said you cannot name a loan or a debtor Greece defaulted on then

Your story just went bust and we all know why you felt the need to tell a story.

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The Buccaneer
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Dec 29 2016, 06:55 PM
Oh look ^ it's the annual prediction by Ph 1 of the death of the Euro. How many times have we seen people confidently predict its imminent demise and gone very quiet when it didn't? Lots

Still thanks for giving us all another more original laugh
Phoenix One UK
Dec 29 2016, 04:32 PM
Dollar is an American/Australian currency . .

And just how do you get to that idiocy?





Simple answer really, it can only be a question of time before the € goes under, simply because no currency without a 'lender of last resort' has ever survived.

The latest scenario is that Italy may be the first to reject it and revert to the Lira due to having a stagnant economy for the last 15 years or so, and that they may be followed by France which is becoming more disenchanted by the day, their upcoming election for president will be an indicator perhaps.

Either way, unless the EU kommissariat can somehow bludgeon the 27 member states to wards fiscal, tax and legal complicity, and thus, federalism, the odds are heavily against the currency's survival.
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The Buccaneer
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Jan 4 2017, 10:41 PM
So as i said you cannot name a loan or a debtor Greece defaulted on then

Your story just went bust and we all know why you felt the need to tell a story.


Greece has been in default of its sovereign debt lots of times before, this is nothing new, only the political vanity of the EU is being used like smoke and mirrors.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/07/01/greece-has-been-in-default-for-50-of-its-time-as-an-independent-country/#6fefdc5460e4
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Steve K
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The Buccaneer
Jan 5 2017, 01:10 PM
Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 10:41 PM
So as i said you cannot name a loan or a debtor Greece defaulted on then

Your story just went bust and we all know why you felt the need to tell a story.


Greece has been in default of its sovereign debt lots of times before, this is nothing new, only the political vanity of the EU is being used like smoke and mirrors.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/07/01/greece-has-been-in-default-for-50-of-its-time-as-an-independent-country/#6fefdc5460e4
Except that late payment to the IMF was just that, a late payment and not a default. Due on June 30 2015 and payment resolved on July 15th 2015

The Europhobic media and the OP don't like telling the whole story for obvious reasons but the IMF is in no doubt there was no default

The IMF Feb 2016
 
Having successfully pulled Greece from the brink last summer

link

The EZ saved Greece from its folly, fact. It will likely save it in future.
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The Buccaneer
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Steve K
Jan 5 2017, 07:45 PM
The Buccaneer
Jan 5 2017, 01:10 PM
Steve K
Jan 4 2017, 10:41 PM
So as i said you cannot name a loan or a debtor Greece defaulted on then

Your story just went bust and we all know why you felt the need to tell a story.


Greece has been in default of its sovereign debt lots of times before, this is nothing new, only the political vanity of the EU is being used like smoke and mirrors.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/07/01/greece-has-been-in-default-for-50-of-its-time-as-an-independent-country/#6fefdc5460e4
Except that late payment to the IMF was just that, a late payment and not a default. Due on June 30 2015 and payment resolved on July 15th 2015

The Europhobic media and the OP don't like telling the whole story for obvious reasons but the IMF is in no doubt there was no default

The IMF Feb 2016
 
Having successfully pulled Greece from the brink last summer

link

The EZ saved Greece from its folly, fact. It will likely save it in future.


No, the EU 'saved' Greece (though in no measurably significant way) due to the fear that if it didn't, other EU members would leave the EZ.

Greece is far from being 'saved' since it has no intention of repaying the bailouts let alone the original loans, it has loads of history in defaulting, it is a basket case and should never have been allowed to join the EZ. Having said that, what utter imbecile in the ECB authorised the huge and unpayable loans to them in the first place, and why ?

Once you've understood the reasons for this, you'll understand why the EZ is doomed.
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Steve K
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The Buccaneer
Jan 5 2017, 08:02 PM
Steve K
Jan 5 2017, 07:45 PM
The Buccaneer
Jan 5 2017, 01:10 PM
Except that late payment to the IMF was just that, a late payment and not a default. Due on June 30 2015 and payment resolved on July 15th 2015

The Europhobic media and the OP don't like telling the whole story for obvious reasons but the IMF is in no doubt there was no default

The IMF Feb 2016
 
Having successfully pulled Greece from the brink last summer

link

The EZ saved Greece from its folly, fact. It will likely save it in future.


No, the EU 'saved' Greece (though in no measurably significant way) due to the fear that if it didn't, other EU members would leave the EZ.

Greece is far from being 'saved' since it has no intention of repaying the bailouts let alone the original loans, it has loads of history in defaulting, it is a basket case and should never have been allowed to join the EZ. Having said that, what utter imbecile in the ECB authorised the huge and unpayable loans to them in the first place, and why ?

Once you've understood the reasons for this, you'll understand why the EZ is doomed.
Well many of the original loans were from imbeciles in private banks all round the world including the UK

As for who bailed out Greece then the exposure to non EZ members of the EU was trivial in the first bailout and zero after.

It's popular to say the EU or EZ caused Greece's misery but it's very much the opposite. Greece was an early adopter of Corbynomics (before the term was known) with the idiot belief you can buy yourself an enduring happier life by borrowing more and more and buying votes.

I doubt Greece will recover in my lifetime but due to the EZ it won't fall into the abyss either
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The Buccaneer
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Steve K
Jan 5 2017, 08:23 PM
The Buccaneer
Jan 5 2017, 08:02 PM
Steve K
Jan 5 2017, 07:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/07/01/greece-has-been-in-default-for-50-of-its-time-as-an-independent-country/#6fefdc5460e4link

The EZ saved Greece from its folly, fact. It will likely save it in future.


No, the EU 'saved' Greece (though in no measurably significant way) due to the fear that if it didn't, other EU members would leave the EZ.

Greece is far from being 'saved' since it has no intention of repaying the bailouts let alone the original loans, it has loads of history in defaulting, it is a basket case and should never have been allowed to join the EZ. Having said that, what utter imbecile in the ECB authorised the huge and unpayable loans to them in the first place, and why ?

Once you've understood the reasons for this, you'll understand why the EZ is doomed.
Well many of the original loans were from imbeciles in private banks all round the world including the UK

As for who bailed out Greece then the exposure to non EZ members of the EU was trivial in the first bailout and zero after.

It's popular to say the EU or EZ caused Greece's misery but it's very much the opposite. Greece was an early adopter of Corbynomics (before the term was known) with the idiot belief you can buy yourself an enduring happier life by borrowing more and more and buying votes.

I doubt Greece will recover in my lifetime but due to the EZ it won't fall into the abyss either

If Greece had a realistic economic model and the necessary tax collection system, I might agree. However, I wouldn't bet against them falling into the abyss when the Germans have had enough of their intransigence, and we see the likes of Italy lining up to leave the EZ, not forgetting France, Portugal and possibly Ireland as well, if Italy does.

We're about to live in 'more interesting times' imo.
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