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| Purpose of EU, Euro 'Was Not to Create Prosperous Europe' | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 29 2016, 01:38 AM (1,128 Views) | |
| Phoenix One UK | Dec 29 2016, 01:38 AM Post #1 |
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I would had thought much of this was blinking obvious, but had been involved in enough debates to know the obvious is far from obvious for some. Note the last paragraph quoted, and note that where bailouts are concerned, it is not the people who benefit from such bailouts but banks and financial institutions with taxpayers picking up the tab. Edited by Steve K, Jan 19 2017, 02:35 PM.
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 06:56 PM Post #81 |
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Once and future cynic
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and IF your assertion was true it would be evidenced by quotes of Remain campaigners making those statementsThat they didn't and you have woefully tried misrepresentation and diversion to try to cover this shows you were posting s. Not exactly a surprise but I hate such and I'm not in the mood to let you post a lie or disingenuity to be the last word on this.
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 06:58 PM Post #82 |
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Cameron was a remain campaigner.
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 07:01 PM Post #83 |
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Once and future cynic
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Sohow come you cannot find a quote of him saying the things you say were said Because you were making it all up perchance? Go on google would be your friend IF your story was true. But why not 'fess up Ph1 and admit what you know to be the truth, you posted Vote Leave false accounts of Cameron's speeches as if he said them. |
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 07:03 PM Post #84 |
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Once and future cynic
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getting bored dealing with the endless diversion and misrepresentation from Swindon Does any serious poster want to post a link to a Remain campaigner saying if we vote out then "we will have WW3" or "the economy will go belly up" |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 07:05 PM Post #85 |
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Do you seriously believe the Mirror was only national publication to quote him? Even the China Daily ran the story.
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 07:07 PM Post #86 |
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Once and future cynic
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and the man from Swindon posts another link that shows his story to be false You really could not make this up |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 07:10 PM Post #87 |
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And I didn't make it up. Links prove that.
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 07:23 PM Post #88 |
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Once and future cynic
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You didn't read the article did you. Just like a Sun reader having to use his index finger to trace the words you stopped at the headline and assumed the article would back you - it doesn't |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 07:24 PM Post #89 |
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And you didn't surf the net.
Edited by Phoenix One UK, Jan 16 2017, 07:25 PM.
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 07:30 PM Post #90 |
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The above is from Guardian, and another publication that supported UK remaining in EU. Hell, the Guardian is also pushing for UK to have a second EU referendum. |
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 07:51 PM Post #91 |
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Once and future cynic
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Except that a) it's actually an article by Simon Jenkins a well known long term uber Outer Evidence and b) those that can read beyond headlines can see the article refutes your assertion because Cameron didn't say what you said he did. Fact Please feel free to keep digging with your false stories. You'll be saying hello to your old chums in Oz soon (hate to break this to you but they might not be so glad to see you appear in the middle of their barbie) |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 07:55 PM Post #92 |
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Published in a paper that supported the UK remaining in EU, and with an article that did not support the Guardian's stance. Further, he may had been supporter of leave, but the article could not got to press without the authorisation of its Editor, who is clearly pro remain. Did I mention I was also an editor once upon a time? May had been a trade journal, but an editor none-the-less.
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 07:59 PM Post #93 |
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Once and future cynic
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More pointless diversion ^ because he cannot answer the points made |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 08:00 PM Post #94 |
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 08:10 PM Post #95 |
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Once and future cynic
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Point proven. I also see no one has responded to the challenge of post 84 |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 08:16 PM Post #96 |
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Nope, you proved zip. Nobody responded because to respond to you would be a waste of time.
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| Tigger | Jan 16 2017, 08:38 PM Post #97 |
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I've read it and you are clearly talking bollocks because the contents of the article do not support the headline, and now some practical advice for West Country laggards. READ THE ARTICLE BEYOND THE HEADLINE, this will often contain many words known as sentences that contradict clickbait junkies with short attention spans. |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 09:13 PM Post #98 |
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Hi tigger. I was wondering when you would show. Post stands.
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| Tigger | Jan 16 2017, 10:00 PM Post #99 |
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Why do you always say that after your latest pile of ill conceived garbage has been completely debunked?
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 10:04 PM Post #100 |
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Because you appear to believe that I will change my view on rubbish you post.
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| Tigger | Jan 16 2017, 10:15 PM Post #101 |
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I've got no intention of changing anyone's views, I'm here to debunk garbage, bigotry and fake news, you might see this as broadcasting I see it as entertainment.
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 10:16 PM Post #102 |
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Oh, is that what you are trying to do. Try again.
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 10:20 PM Post #103 |
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And if I were to make such a post what would the MOD do/say? Given you are a MOD, I trust you will not find this question to difficult?
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| Malum Unus | Jan 16 2017, 10:58 PM Post #104 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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I'm not so sure about that... The EU seems almost religious in its beliefs regarding the 'sanctity' of EU rules, especially the 'core principles'. |
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 11:30 PM Post #105 |
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Once and future cynic
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It's an abstracted and indirect comment provoked by incessant trolling but OK I will remove it |
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| Phoenix One UK | Jan 16 2017, 11:33 PM Post #106 |
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Thank you, and I was not trolling. |
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| Rich | Jan 16 2017, 11:38 PM Post #107 |
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But only for a limited time span, IIRC. |
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 11:40 PM Post #108 |
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Once and future cynic
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But the point was it tore up the idiot free movement dogma so it could have been a beach head for complete reform of free movement. Seems other countries would have backed us. It deserved to be given a chance |
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| Rich | Jan 16 2017, 11:45 PM Post #109 |
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I think that the dogmatic ideologists were given plenty of chances, they can hardly turn around and say that for years they were unaware of how the folks on an Island with limited space were feeling about free movement within the EU and the undermining of the wage structures in the UK. No, they knew very well how the Brits felt about open borders but ignored the concerns....hence we are where we are, as I said previously, the EU ideal will probably end up being a good entity...WHEN it learns to be flexible and admit that one size does not fit all. |
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| Steve K | Jan 16 2017, 11:47 PM Post #110 |
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Once and future cynic
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So you based your vote on historical bitterness and not the facts of the situation at the time You weren't alone but it's really nothing to be proud of |
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| Malum Unus | Jan 17 2017, 01:06 AM Post #111 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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Would it have been a beachhead or a carrot on a stick though? I suspect the latter. |
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| Rich | Jan 17 2017, 01:08 AM Post #112 |
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What exactly were the facts of the situation at the time? |
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| Steve K | Jan 17 2017, 09:40 AM Post #113 |
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Once and future cynic
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And had it turned out so we still could have left later. as Rich has shown ^ some were so determined to vote against an imagined mythical monster they wouldn't look at the facts. |
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| Malum Unus | Jan 17 2017, 11:38 PM Post #114 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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For me the monster is the inflexibility of the EU and well, I think we shall within the next year or so, see exactly how 'mythical' that monster is, the EU is going to have to either change or die. |
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| Steve K | Jan 17 2017, 11:55 PM Post #115 |
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Once and future cynic
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We'll see. It'll always change but whether it'll change to address its serious flaws is anyone's guess. Had we been in there was very much more chance. Will it die if it doesn't? I doubt it as polls show that outside the UK there is strong public support for the EU as is albeit with strong public opposition to those that want some sort of USofE |
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| Malum Unus | Jan 18 2017, 09:55 AM Post #116 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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I personally don't think the EU WILL change to address its most serious flaws, with us in or out, it's the core dogmatic ideology that needs to change and such ideology by its very nature resists change. I'm also not so sure about the EU not dying, if it learns to bend it might survive as a looser EU, but if it doesn't bend then various governments will use the EU's own inflexibility to stir up nationalism... The choices seem to be loosen or shatter. Polls here also showed a remain win and much EU support. |
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| Affa | Jan 18 2017, 11:40 AM Post #117 |
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I lean towards this being worthy of consideration, a possible adjustment to FoM that encompassed all member states. But my reason for not giving it more weight is simply that 'it wasn't enough', and had it worked and reduced number coming here we'd be stuck with it. If it had failed we'd still be stuck with it. Only by leaving has the UK altered the reliance on FoM that existed to now bring it into serious doubt in other member countries. If the EU does change it will be the UK referendum result that changed it. Cameron's deal was never going to do that. |
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| Tigger | Jan 18 2017, 08:42 PM Post #118 |
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I really can't get my head around FoM in regards to the UK, having a family member living in Europe I'm well aware of the hurdles involved in moving too and working in another country, essentially lots of hoops with no guarantees until you have proved yourself and with the very real possibility of being booted out if you fall on hard times. Contrast this with my own first hand experience here. 8 o clock and a bus turns up on site and out trot a dozen East Europeans, they've only been in the country 48 hours and they've got a P45, digs and have done the obligatory H&S, many will not speak workable English and most will be low skilled to virtually unskilled. This simply would not happen in other EU countries, what with permits and more rigorous skill cards but many people probably think it does! We want cheap disposable workers and we were happy to take them, in a nutshell we fucked ourselves and our own people. |
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| Steve K | Jan 18 2017, 09:00 PM Post #119 |
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Once and future cynic
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Quite Our problems have mostly been self made with some idiot disinclination to use the perfectly legal methods the other EU countries use to discourage low qualified migrant workers. But as the incisive wit Henning Wehn puts it: "There's that entrepreneurial, creative streak – that's Britain's biggest asset. The negative side of that is if you say 'I want to be a plumber', you can be tomorrow – you can get yourself put in the directory, though your customers will probably suffer." |
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| Affa | Jan 18 2017, 10:37 PM Post #120 |
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It wasn't so long ago that the main stream press were extolling the virtues of FoM, the value that it added, the insistence that these migrants were an asset worth protecting - they were skilled, hard working, uncomplaining, and less expensive to employ. They added more than they took out. What changed? Were we lied to then or lied to since - either way it does demonstrate that we should never believe what we are told - and that is true today. Edited by Affa, Jan 18 2017, 10:39 PM.
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and IF your assertion was true it would be evidenced by quotes of Remain campaigners making those statements
s. Not exactly a surprise but I hate such and I'm not in the mood to let you post a lie or disingenuity to be the last word on this.

2:17 PM Jul 11