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| Purpose of EU, Euro 'Was Not to Create Prosperous Europe' | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 29 2016, 01:38 AM (1,126 Views) | |
| Phoenix One UK | Dec 29 2016, 01:38 AM Post #1 |
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Regular Member
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I would had thought much of this was blinking obvious, but had been involved in enough debates to know the obvious is far from obvious for some. Note the last paragraph quoted, and note that where bailouts are concerned, it is not the people who benefit from such bailouts but banks and financial institutions with taxpayers picking up the tab. Edited by Steve K, Jan 19 2017, 02:35 PM.
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| Steve K | Jan 18 2017, 10:51 PM Post #121 |
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Once and future cynic
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Some of the MSM did extoll FoM and migration in general but certainly not all did. The print press (and its online outlets) are opinionated, no one should expect anything else. What some media reported were third party analyses that showed that if you took a very short term view then migration did increase GDP and the migrants did pay more in tax than they took out from society. Those analyses were flawed (as I said at the time) because they didn't ip consider the long term view when those migrants took citizenship and progressed to taking pensions and did not consider the second order effect of their immediate presence IE the displacement of Brits onto job seeking benefits. Lied to? Deliberately misled? Poor self seeking analyses? Economy with the Truth? You pick but do not blame all the media for it and the media I mainly follow were very careful not to endorse those analyses, just report them |
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| Tigger | Jan 18 2017, 10:52 PM Post #122 |
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Senior Member
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Yup. But you'll end up blue in the face telling someone that and pointing out the reality. I sometimes think the UK population can be controlled by pulling the levers on various ingrained but usually dormant prejudices, mass immigration in my view was simply a by product of that entrepreneurial spirit that is always on the look out for quick profits, once again we screw our own society over and blame others. |
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| Steve K | Jan 18 2017, 10:53 PM Post #123 |
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Once and future cynic
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FWIW the British Gas insurance supplied plumber that was here on Monday was most definitely a Brit and was absolutely excellent! But I digress |
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| Affa | Jan 18 2017, 11:14 PM Post #124 |
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Senior Member
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To be honest I didn't require an answer or an analysis of the (off) topic matter I raised. My real issue is with the way the public are blindsided to accept things as 'good for them, the whole country' when the reality is/was that it was merely 'good for business'. You don't like conspiracy theories and I loath making them, but sometimes the only conclusion to be drawn is that all of that 'positive' rhetoric was BS meant to hide the real objective of providing business with cheap(er) labour and thereby keeping wages in general low - politics! And before you cough your coffee up, I am including the Labour party as complicit in this. |
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| Rich | Jan 18 2017, 11:25 PM Post #125 |
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Senior Member
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Have you informed another certain member of such? |
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| Steve K | Jan 19 2017, 12:00 AM Post #126 |
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Once and future cynic
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is it that off topic? One of the problems (politicians, citizens, all) is that people like simple analogies and simple models. Dumb but that's what we do. Now a very simple model is that the higher GDP nations have better standards of living so the politicians go down the route of trying to make GDP bigger and not thinking about the second order effects of the means that they employ to do so. The public likes the headline stats "we have growth" but if that growth has been achieved by outsourcing more jobs overseas or bringing in migrants it may not actually improve the lot of the public. That was one of the big flaws of the EU |
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| Rich | Jan 19 2017, 12:39 AM Post #127 |
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Senior Member
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I must say Steve, that here I disagree with the simplicity of your comment, I am of the mind that most rationally thinking people have been warning of their concerns of cheap immigrant labour for years but have been ignored by politicians. I agree that graphs showing the growth of GDP look good on paper but just as RJD has commented in the past....there is NO value added shown and that is because there is none. And way back I posted a link showing that a report from the upper house showed that the benefits from immigration was either very tiny or nil. To me, the implications are obvious and thus we find ourselves Brexiting. |
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| Steve K | Jan 19 2017, 11:58 AM Post #128 |
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Once and future cynic
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I'd say 'many' rather than 'most' have been so warning My point stands, the public in general look for too simplistic 'progress' and surprise surprise the politicians deliver it and the law of unforeseen (but foreseeable) consequences means we actually become worse off Does anyone really believe those computerised Amazon warehouses funnelling their profits through Luxembourg actually do any real good for the UK with all the jobs they've displaced? But their GDP effect is positive. |
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| C-too | Jan 19 2017, 01:16 PM Post #129 |
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Honourable Member
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Both Greece and the UK are members of the EU. Just like many other cities in the EU, Liverpool was helped by EU funding before the meltdown which made a positive contribution to Mersey side. The out of context introduction of you brining Greece into the equation, especially when Greece has had the misfortune to have a poor economic position made worse by the international financial meltdown, is a red herring. |
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| The Buccaneer | Jan 19 2017, 09:40 PM Post #130 |
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Regular Member
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The 'benefits ' of immigration have long been diluted by a mix of low or unskilled and illegal immigrants, which have a cost PENALTY. I doubt any of us have any problem with LEGAL skilled immigration, which will be assumed to be mutually beneficial. it is WHY we should spare no effort to remove illegals and issue short-term visas for those seasonal workers we need. Along with beefing up our border controls and criminal checks on visitors/immigrants. |
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| The Buccaneer | Jan 19 2017, 09:42 PM Post #131 |
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Regular Member
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'misfortune' ??? Nonsense. Greece has a very long history of soverign debt defaults, and deliberately overborrowed from the mug ECB, knowing full well they wouldn't ever be repaying, just as in previous years. They should never have been allowed in the EU NOR the EZ, neither should the other PIIGS. |
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2:16 PM Jul 11