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Russian diplomatic staff expelled; .. for cyber-inteference in US elections
Topic Started: Dec 29 2016, 08:48 PM (258 Views)
RoofGardener
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Lord of Plantpots
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Apparantly 35 diplomatic staff have just been booted out of the USA in connection with "cyber" activities deemed detrimental to the course of the US Presidential election. In addition, two premises have been closed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38463025

This isn't good :(
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Steve K
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Oh I don't know. Does anyone really believe they were innocent?
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Rich
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Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 12:24 AM
Oh I don't know. Does anyone really believe they were innocent?
Well, I do recall Merkel effecting false anger that the Yanks were hacking the hun when it transpired that they were doing the same.....that story very quickly died a death. !!===
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Malum Unus
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Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 12:24 AM
Oh I don't know. Does anyone really believe they were innocent?


Steve, I'm shocked... Don't you know it's innocent until PROVEN guilty?

At least, that's what you're always telling everyone.
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RoofGardener
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Um.... I wasn't making a moral judgement when I said "this isn't good", merely expressing concern about how the situation will play out. I would expect the Russians to immediately do "tit-for-tat" expulsion, for example.

One thought has subsequently occurred to me: where the hacked emails GOVERNMENT emails, or Democrat Party emails ? If the former, then the hack represents an attack on America. If the latter.. well... it's a slightly grayer area. The Democratic Party is surely a private organisation.. sort of... so you COULD view the expulsions as being a corrupt use of government power.

Ish.

If you squint a bit.

Edited by RoofGardener, Dec 30 2016, 07:47 AM.
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johnofgwent
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Hang on RG.

"Expelling diplomatic staff for activities incompatible with their status" has been a fact of diplomatic life since .. forever.

It's what they do. They expel some of ours, we expel some of theirs.

This is such a non story it's on a par with "the rock that went diddle unm dum diddle um dum dum dum DUM every time the sun same up and its soalr cells rebooted it"

http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2012/01/british_admit_fake_rock_spying.html


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RoofGardener
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Fair points JoG ;D

Still, if we're going to start expelling diplomats, then I'd be interested to know what action the Democratic Party (or the FBI) took to find out HOW their emails had been 'hacked', and whether any internal disciplinary action had been taken.
Edited by RoofGardener, Dec 30 2016, 08:52 AM.
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Affa
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The real issue here is Russia supplying Wikileaks with hacked material.
The second is - if Russia opposed Hilary, why would Americans choose Trump.

I actually support Wikileaks, but this is the other side of it ....... a propaganda outlet for foreign interference.
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RoofGardener
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Perhaps Affa. However, I'd suggest the REAL issue is the seeming incompetence of the Democratic National Committee's computer security arrangements. After all, the Republican Party was attacked at the same time, but the hackers where unable to penetrate their networks.

This wasn't an isolated breach of an individual email server... a "one off", so to speak... but a systematic takeover of the entire network, with keyloggers etcetera being placed on a large number of individual workstations.

Set against the backdrop of Hillary Clinton's negligent approach to computer security whilst Secretary of State, this is a major challenge to the Democrat's suitability to hold office !
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Oddball
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Malum Unus
Dec 30 2016, 02:30 AM
Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 12:24 AM
Oh I don't know. Does anyone really believe they were innocent?


Steve, I'm shocked... Don't you know it's innocent until PROVEN guilty?

At least, that's what you're always telling everyone.
Some 'evidence' is not brought into the light of day, since of itself that would compromise so much of their own intelligence knowledge, ability and practices. Best not let the 'opposition' your full hand.
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johnofgwent
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Affa
Dec 30 2016, 09:23 AM
The real issue here is Russia supplying Wikileaks with hacked material.
The second is - if Russia opposed Hilary, why would Americans choose Trump.

I actually support Wikileaks, but this is the other side of it ....... a propaganda outlet for foreign interference.
Wouldn't it be fun to find it was down to Edward Snowden helping the Russians in exchange for asylum.

:facepalm:

But IF it is all true (which I doubt) then it is nice to see the Americans on the receiving end of the sort of shite they dumped on Allende, Castro ...
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Steve K
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Malum Unus
Dec 30 2016, 02:30 AM
Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 12:24 AM
Oh I don't know. Does anyone really believe they were innocent?


Steve, I'm shocked... Don't you know it's innocent until PROVEN guilty?

At least, that's what you're always telling everyone.
 ::)

Tell you what MU, you go endangering the site with statements prejudicial to a UK or USA court trial and I'm sure you'll then realise how stupid that comment was. Or you could read rule 1 or the standard Zeta agreement for hosting

Meantime please tell us just how many of these Russians are going on trial? Zero perchance?
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RoofGardener
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It appears 2016 continues to confound the pundits.

Well, THIS pundit, anyway.

Hands up all who thought Putin would immediately respond with tit-for-tat expulsions ?
< puts both hands, and one leg, up>

But.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38464612

He's turned the other cheek, offered an olive branch, and invited the US diplomatic corps around for the New Year celebrations at the Kremlin !!

On first reading, this is one of the most amazing pieces of PR I've seen for a while. He's just caught the outgoing administration COMPLETELY flat-footed ! (and he didn't even take his shirt off )
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Dec 30 2016, 01:35 PM
It appears 2016 continues to confound the pundits.

Well, THIS pundit, anyway.

Hands up all who thought Putin would immediately respond with tit-for-tat expulsions ?
< puts both hands, and one leg, up>

But.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38464612

He's turned the other cheek, offered an olive branch, and invited the US diplomatic corps around for the New Year celebrations at the Kremlin !!

On first reading, this is one of the most amazing pieces of PR I've seen for a while. He's just caught the outgoing administration COMPLETELY flat-footed ! (and he didn't even take his shirt off )
Absolutely. I may hate his guts but that's a brilliant move
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xosg
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Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 01:49 PM
RoofGardener
Dec 30 2016, 01:35 PM
It appears 2016 continues to confound the pundits.

Well, THIS pundit, anyway.

Hands up all who thought Putin would immediately respond with tit-for-tat expulsions ?
< puts both hands, and one leg, up>

But.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38464612

He's turned the other cheek, offered an olive branch, and invited the US diplomatic corps around for the New Year celebrations at the Kremlin !!

On first reading, this is one of the most amazing pieces of PR I've seen for a while. He's just caught the outgoing administration COMPLETELY flat-footed ! (and he didn't even take his shirt off )
Absolutely. I may hate his guts but that's a brilliant move
Obama can do whatever he likes,it's irrelevant. He is gone in 22 days,a has been and just like him with the stroke of a pen,trump will overturn it.Just as we have already seen in the UN resolution on Israeli settlements. So it's rather a non issue at the moment.
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johnofgwent
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Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 10:59 AM

Meantime please tell us just how many of these Russians are going on trial? Zero perchance?
Well of course

They have diplomatic immunity

That's the other reason they are expelled. It means they've done their job.
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johnofgwent
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Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 01:49 PM

Absolutely. I may hate his guts but that's a brilliant move
So the Kremlin teach people well ...
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Rich
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johnofgwent
Dec 30 2016, 07:02 PM
Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 01:49 PM

Absolutely. I may hate his guts but that's a brilliant move
So the Kremlin teach people well ...
As I said many months back, Putin holds all the cards as he knows that the west no longer has the stomach for long drawn out conflicts far away from it's own domestic issues and worries.

He bides his time and picks his moments and has now belittled Obama in his last days.

Trump must NOT let him play him, the best way to get things done is to convince the other party that it was THEIR idea. ;-)
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Malum Unus
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Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 10:59 AM
Malum Unus
Dec 30 2016, 02:30 AM
Steve K
Dec 30 2016, 12:24 AM
Oh I don't know. Does anyone really believe they were innocent?


Steve, I'm shocked... Don't you know it's innocent until PROVEN guilty?

At least, that's what you're always telling everyone.
 ::)

Tell you what MU, you go endangering the site with statements prejudicial to a UK or USA court trial and I'm sure you'll then realise how stupid that comment was. Or you could read rule 1 or the standard Zeta agreement for hosting

Meantime please tell us just how many of these Russians are going on trial? Zero perchance?


Posted Image

But I suppose it's OK as Obama and his administration missed the point as well.
Edited by Malum Unus, Dec 31 2016, 08:16 AM.
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Alberich
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Or one could perhaps take the view that Obama, whose presidency has never lived up to expectation, and who bitterly resents the defeat of Hilary and the rise of Trump, is acting like a spoiled child in a huff. Trump favours closer relations with the Russians, so Obama does what he can to muddy the waters. Funnily enough, all he has done is allow Putin to claim the high ground by refusing to play the normal cold war "tit-for- tat" expulsion game. He has also tried to bind Trump by creating his new "no exploitation" zones in the search for new sources of oil and natural gas, which, while worthy objectives, have arrived a trifle late in Obama's dead duck days in office.

Does anyone really believe that the Democrat party's E mails, hacked or not, could have any bearing on the outcome of the US presidential elections? Or that Obama is displaying firm leadership?
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Steve K
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Alberich
Jan 1 2017, 12:05 PM
Does anyone really believe that the Democrat party's E mails, hacked or not, could have any bearing on the outcome of the US presidential elections?
In an election won by carefully distributing a minority vote to win a majority of the electoral college then of course access to the other side's data and tactics could have a huge bearing.

Quote:
 
Or that Obama is displaying firm leadership?
The Republican hill has never let him so he's going out doing what he can.
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RoofGardener
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I'd have to agree with SteveK. The very fact of the hack - regardless of what was actually revealed - would have made people question the credibility of the Democrats as guardians and protectors of the US. This is particularly true against the backdrop of Hillary Clintons indiscretions with emails whilst Secretary of State.

"..if they can't even keep their own house in order, how can we trust them with confidential Government information ? ..."

This would be reinforced by the fact that the similar hacks against the Republican Party "failed", creating a political contrast in the eyes of the voters !
Edited by RoofGardener, Jan 1 2017, 01:16 PM.
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