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| Another Brick In The Wall; U.S. / Mexico | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 25 2017, 04:10 PM (330 Views) | |
| Opinionater | Jan 25 2017, 04:10 PM Post #1 |
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Senior Member
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Well there will be several thousand as Trump confirms he will build the wall. That should bring a few jobs in. It's a symbol and says more about Trump than words can and he knows it. So he is going to build it, now my question to you all is how will he get Mexico to pay for it? The only way I can think of is he will look at charging Mexico a tariff on something it buys from the U.S until it's paid for, now what could that be? |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2017, 08:22 PM Post #2 |
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Apparently he's going to get Mexico to build it! So much for bringing jobs back home...... |
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| johnofgwent | Jan 25 2017, 08:25 PM Post #3 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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I think its an excellent development If/when it fails, those inclined can mock him mercilessly If/when it succeeds we can get a similar job done far more easily north of Carlisle when that Scottish bint leads her clan to oblivion ... |
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| johnofgwent | Jan 25 2017, 08:26 PM Post #4 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Where did you see he was getting mexico to build it. ?? |
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| Tigger | Jan 25 2017, 08:51 PM Post #5 |
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It's gesture politics though isn't it? Designed to fool inbred banjo playing Southeners and 350lb mentally subnormal retards who can barely unscrew the top off a jar of genetically modified peanut butter. The vast majority of illegals enter the lawfully on visas and don't go back home after it expires, the notion they flood over the border in endless streams is overblown. |
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| Jessamy Bride | Jan 25 2017, 10:49 PM Post #6 |
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Regular Pub Goer
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I agree....its more symbolic than anything practical. More worrying is his ambition to withdraw the US from the UN.... and other working institutions. Looks like he is pulling up the drawbridge on the land of the free.......seriously WTF |
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| LZ54 | Jan 25 2017, 11:19 PM Post #7 |
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I think once the American corporations have raped the USA of all it's resources and polluted the air and water beyond the point of no return, they'll be reaching their tentacles abroad again in the foreseeable future. |
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| Happy Hornet | Jan 26 2017, 08:48 AM Post #8 |
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Am I missing something here? How is Trump gonna get Mexico to pay for his wall? As I understand it the Mexican government is no more legally obligated to pay for it than I am, so what's the deal? |
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| Opinionater | Jan 26 2017, 09:53 AM Post #9 |
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How can it fail? It's a symbolic stance not a measurable commitment. He only has to show willing and start the construction, everything that happens after that will play into his hands and strengthen his position. If he builds it he wins, if people stand in the way of construction he wins, if he tries to recover the money and does he wins, if he fights to recover because people stand in his way or Mexico doesn't pay he will win publicity as he continues to fight for America. He only need to put a brick in the wall and he has control. That's what he wants. |
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| Steve K | Jan 26 2017, 10:30 AM Post #10 |
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Once and future cynic
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I believe his plan is to remove the USA from NAFTA and then argue that all the tariffs on Mexican imports count as paying towards the wall - he will conveniently not factor in the tariffs levied on USA goods that go to Mexico. He'll probably fiddle the wall costs too excluding staffing, maintenance and land costs. And that's before the cost of the extra attendant security a wall needs to make it effective. |
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| Happy Hornet | Jan 26 2017, 10:51 AM Post #11 |
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Yes was having this conversation with Mrs Hornet just yesterday, a wall is almost useless without anyone to man it, that's an awful lot of wall which means a constant, ongoing cost. Sooner a later a president will come along who will decide it's not worth the cost to sustain it. As other posters have said, it's gesture politics. |
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| johnofgwent | Jan 26 2017, 08:35 PM Post #12 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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OK if I can drag things back into a shoddy semi coherence I spent some time looking, and I could not find a single page declaring that Mexico will be forced to BUILD the wall. I have a life to live and beer to drink, so I elect NOT to sit through hours of video hoping to find one fifteen second declaration, If people have something to say, put it in print so my search engines can find it. I DO find a number of newspaper articles (go search for them yourself) claiming Mexican LABOUR will be used to build it, having been hired by the construction contractors, but that's not what was being claimed, was it ? I find a whole bonfire load of tequila soaked newspaper and similar reports that mexico is not going to pay a single peso of the cost. Against them I find numerous articles pointing out that a tollbooth charging the mexicans to enter the united states will soon fix that. And I point to the fact that the mexicans charge everyone forty quid to leave the country via their tourist airports so there is plenty of precedent. So I quite genuinely believe that Mexican Citizens will be footing the bill. And if I may say so, what political act of the past twenty years or more in the UK has not been an act of gesture politics I can't think of any |
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| Opinionater | Jan 27 2017, 09:07 AM Post #13 |
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Oh well looks like I was spot on in my first post, seems Trump is looking a tax on Mexican exports to the U.S to pay for the wall. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38766662 |
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| Steve K | Jan 27 2017, 10:54 AM Post #14 |
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Once and future cynic
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Which means his own voters pay for the wall. The penny will soon drop even with his most dim supporters |
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| Opinionater | Jan 27 2017, 11:27 AM Post #15 |
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No sure that would be the case, think about it. 20% tax doesn't mean the price goes up 20%. If it does then the door will be open to imports from other countries or home production. My bet is if he puts 20% on Mexico will have to absorb some, if not all of it. Alternatively they will loose the trade in the not to long term. He could easily price them out of the market, more jobs for America. |
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| Happy Hornet | Jan 27 2017, 11:50 AM Post #16 |
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But no trade with Mexico means no 20% tax on Mexican imports, which means Mexico still isn't paying for the wall. And who is going to pay for manning and maintenance of the wall? |
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| RoofGardener | Jan 27 2017, 12:18 PM Post #17 |
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Lord of Plantpots
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The "manning" of the wall might not be THAT much. I would imagine it would incorporate motion sensors, CCTV etcetera. Those, plus perhaps the use of drones, would reduce 'monitoring' manpower. In the event of a breach being detected, staff could be vectored to that sector from distant control posts, or the relevant local police informed. The wall wouldn't be foolproof, but presumably it would still be more of a deterrent than an open field or whatever. |
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| Opinionater | Jan 27 2017, 01:56 PM Post #18 |
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That may be the case if it goes to no trade. However some of the top imports from Mexico are vehicles, machinery, mineral fuels, and I understand Mexico is a major the supplier of vegetables, fruit, wine and beer. Can't see the U.S having problems moving away from Mexico for most of them and there are jobs to be had for Americans. Mind you on the fruit and veg they will probably need Mexican labour to keep cost down, maybe he will have to leave a gap in the wall.
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| Opinionater | Jan 27 2017, 01:58 PM Post #19 |
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Drones CCTV and robotic more jobs for the U.S Edited by Opinionater, Jan 27 2017, 01:59 PM.
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| Tigger | Jan 27 2017, 02:01 PM Post #20 |
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Wrong, the end user will pay, the alternative in a business producing stuff at little or no profit, ie why bother. Also Trump would need to import stuff from other nations who would also undercut US wages, the alternative as you point out is to make everything at home but at extra cost, again thicktards will pay the price, job or no job. |
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| Tigger | Jan 27 2017, 02:02 PM Post #21 |
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Made in China. |
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| Affa | Jan 27 2017, 02:38 PM Post #22 |
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The Romans built a border wall, the Chines did, and so did East Germany ......... all they ever achieved were lost lives and lots of wasted money protecting them. |
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| RoofGardener | Jan 27 2017, 02:40 PM Post #23 |
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Lord of Plantpots
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In their time, those walls proved very effective. Indeed, they outlasted the empires that built them ? |
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| Opinionater | Jan 28 2017, 10:21 AM Post #24 |
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They import things from Mexico because it's cheaper, if you add tax so it's not cheaper, production will move back to America or they will buy alternative products already made in the UK. The end user may pay extra in some cases but this will reduce in time and will not be reflect the complete increase in tax. Given the jobs that it could bring back it may be worth it anyway. |
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| Happy Hornet | Jan 28 2017, 11:01 AM Post #25 |
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I seem to recall one of Trump's Republican predecessors having something to say about building walls between people...... |
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| scorpio | Jan 28 2017, 11:08 AM Post #26 |
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Indeed.. The importer who pays the import tariff to the US government, must be compensated for the cost of the tariff, by passing that cost down the chain to the end consumer, who indirectly pays the tariff. The product will be more expensive in the US marketplace. However if an import tariff is placed on Mexican goods, the WTO (the US is a WTO member) laws stipulate that any similar, or like goods, imported from any other country, must also have the same tariff. That means if washing machines from Mexico have a 20% tariff, then washing machines from Japan must also have a 20% tariff. This is to prevent any one county being discriminated against. Of course taxes are different (technically), from tariffs, and it's taxes that have been mentioned by Trump, but they need to be careful that the tax, is a tax and not a tariff in disguise for the reasons mentioned above. It will be interesting to watch how this develops, but I can't see how the Mexican government can be made to pay for the wall. |
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| Tigger | Jan 28 2017, 11:57 AM Post #27 |
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The end user ALWAYS pays additional costs if the cost base increases. Here's the thing, many of the firms in Mexico that are exporting to America are actually American owned! Ford has a car plants in Mexico that not only sends cars to America but also elsewhere, when/if Ford closes it's Mexican plant costs will rise, now if US consumers are happy to stump up the extra cash no problem, the other more intractable problem is Ford cars exported outside the home market will be competing with other vehicles still being made in low wage economies, sales will suffer and profits will fall. |
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| Steve K | Jan 28 2017, 02:24 PM Post #28 |
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Once and future cynic
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Good point And such a tax applied to all imports would cause serious inflation in the USA never a vote winner. It would take years for USA factories to take up the equivalent manufacture and doubtful even then that they could compete. It wasn't for nothing that the USA big motor companies lobbied for the USA to join NAFTA
Oh yes and neither can I |
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2:47 PM Jul 11