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C-too
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May 14 2017, 11:50 PM
Post #41
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- Steve K
- May 14 2017, 10:24 AM
- C-too
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- Steve K
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There was no claim in my post that "every muslim follows every idiocy you refer to".
Err yes there very much was, I specifically copied and pasted the relevant parts. And please don't try and plead that when you use broad brush all embracing pejorative statements if you don't mean people to take them as referring to all muslims. You know exactly what you are doing,you've done it so many times and been called out for it almost as many. - Quote:
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You appear to have a need to ignore the points I made and to deviate onto a religion that does not require its adherents to take up a submissive position and pray five times a day.
I guess you do that because you have no other way of avoiding the realities contained in my previous post.
Nope. As YOU FULL WELL KNOW my point is to show up the fallacy of the comments you project You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad and I'll point out that IF that was true then all ostensible Christians are worse because the core Christian texts have even worse material. Since you deny the latter linkage then you know full well the first part (that you extol so often) is equally a pile of horseshit. Malicious horseshit as well. So instead of posting the malicious hate wishing shite of "It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep" why not try posting the honest "It is the basic understanding of some Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that some Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep" Of course that wouldn't support a simplistic broad brush hate platform would it. So if you don't want to be seen as such a nasty advocate you know what to do.
---"You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad"--- That is a false accusation
If I meant all Muslims I would have said all Muslims. It is a deviation beyond ridiculous to assume I meant all Muslims, so please do not distort my posts in order to impose your biased approach to Islam.
You should perhaps ask for clarification instead of jumping to sick conclusions and posting your subjective offensive shite. I do not hate Muslims, I have posted time and time again that I do not have a problem with good people regardless of their politics, sexual orientation or their religion. BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM. Pity you have repeatedly refused to see the difference.
You have always resorted to your own strongly held but misguided subjective views whenever presented with the problems in the Islamic religion. The vitriol in your post says so much about you and your inability to address these problems. Your inability or refusal to address the questions posed only reaffirms your weakness in this area.
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Rich
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May 14 2017, 11:59 PM
Post #42
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Err yes there very much was, I specifically copied and pasted the relevant parts. And please don't try and plead that when you use broad brush all embracing pejorative statements if you don't mean people to take them as referring to all muslims. You know exactly what you are doing,you've done it so many times and been called out for it almost as many. - Quote:
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You appear to have a need to ignore the points I made and to deviate onto a religion that does not require its adherents to take up a submissive position and pray five times a day.
I guess you do that because you have no other way of avoiding the realities contained in my previous post.
Nope. As YOU FULL WELL KNOW my point is to show up the fallacy of the comments you project You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad and I'll point out that IF that was true then all ostensible Christians are worse because the core Christian texts have even worse material. Since you deny the latter linkage then you know full well the first part (that you extol so often) is equally a pile of horseshit. Malicious horseshit as well. So instead of posting the malicious hate wishing shite of "It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep" why not try posting the honest "It is the basic understanding of some Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that some Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep" Of course that wouldn't support a simplistic broad brush hate platform would it. So if you don't want to be seen as such a nasty advocate you know what to do.
---"You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad"--- That is a false accusation If I meant all Muslims I would have said all Muslims. It is a deviation beyond ridiculous to assume I meant all Muslims, so please do not distort my posts in order to impose your biased approach to Islam. You should perhaps ask for clarification instead of jumping to sick conclusions and posting your subjective offensive shite. I do not hate Muslims, I have posted time and time again that I do not have a problem with good people regardless of their politics, sexual orientation or their religion. BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM. Pity you have repeatedly refused to see the difference. You have always resorted to your own strongly held but misguided subjective views whenever presented with the problems in the Islamic religion. The vitriol in your post says so much about you and your inability to address these problems. Your inability or refusal to address the questions posed only reaffirms your weakness in this area.
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Steve K
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May 15 2017, 12:22 AM
Post #43
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepYOU FULL WELL KNOW my point is to show up the fallacy of the comments you project
You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad and I'll point out that IF that was true then all ostensible Christians are worse because the core Christian texts have even worse material. Since you deny the latter linkage then you know full well the first part (that you extol so often) is equally a pile of horseshit. Malicious horseshit as well.
So instead of posting the malicious hate wishing shite of "It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep" why not try posting the honest
"It is the basic understanding of some Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that some Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep"
Of course that wouldn't support a simplistic broad brush hate platform would it. So if you don't want to be seen as such a nasty advocate you know what to do.
---"You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad"--- That is a false accusation If I meant all Muslims I would have said all Muslims. It is a deviation beyond ridiculous to assume I meant all Muslims, so please do not distort my posts in order to impose your biased approach to Islam. You should perhaps ask for clarification instead of jumping to sick conclusions and posting your subjective offensive shite. I do not hate Muslims, I have posted time and time again that I do not have a problem with good people regardless of their politics, sexual orientation or their religion. BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM. Pity you have repeatedly refused to see the difference. You have always resorted to your own strongly held but misguided subjective views whenever presented with the problems in the Islamic religion. The vitriol in your post says so much about you and your inability to address these problems. Your inability or refusal to address the questions posed only reaffirms your weakness in this area.
He knows what he's doing, he knows he deliberately broad brushes when it comes to a grouping he always attacks that way
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johnofgwent
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May 15 2017, 06:16 AM
Post #44
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- C-too
- May 13 2017, 06:10 AM
Indoctrinated Muslims do believe Allah created the world along with everything on it and in it, do you dispute that ?
Do you know of any other religion where its adherents are expected to bend into a position of submission and pray 5 times a day ?
Do you understand the power of 'Affirmations' ?
As for your second comment, it has nothing to do with me. Well that's not going to fly very far in a country that guarantees the rights of its citizens to believe that JHWH did it in six days in 4004BC and man walked with dinosaurs.
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RoofGardener
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May 15 2017, 07:05 AM
Post #45
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All very well, but seeing as people are diverting off the topic, then I assume you are all ENTIRELY happy that (a) it is not a muslim ban, and (b) the US courts can rewrite the constitution if they don't like the political allegiance of the serving president.
All happy with that ? Do we ALL feel comfortable with that ? Excellent.
You see, once you have turned to the Left-Liberal side, those inconvenient democratic principles just MELT away !
And today's BAFTA for Misrepresenting What Others are Saying goes to . . . . . . I didn't misrepresent what people where saying Steve; I pointed out what they where NOT saying. (e.g. that the topic had drifted off-course).
How do YOU feel about the idea of a Constitutional principle that varies depending on the perceived opinions of the person to whom it is being applied ?
Hey, in light of this approach by the 4th Circuit appeals court, lets make some new constitutional ammendments....
"The Government shall make no laws regarding the housing of Elephants in a Room... UNLESS it is proposed by a left-wing politician, or useful in the context of left-wing politics."
"The right of the citizenry to bare arms shall not be abridged.... unless that person is a Republican, or is perceived to possibly (either now or in the future) entertain right-wing thoughts. In which case they will be forced to wear long-sleeved shirts at all times !"
"We still hold these truths to be self-evident... providing we approve of the person saying them..... "
"...Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, providing it's the right SORT of speech.... "
Sigh !
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C-too
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May 15 2017, 07:56 AM
Post #46
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepYOU FULL WELL KNOW my point is to show up the fallacy of the comments you project
You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad and I'll point out that IF that was true then all ostensible Christians are worse because the core Christian texts have even worse material. Since you deny the latter linkage then you know full well the first part (that you extol so often) is equally a pile of horseshit. Malicious horseshit as well.
So instead of posting the malicious hate wishing shite of "It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep" why not try posting the honest
"It is the basic understanding of some Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that some Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep"BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM. Pity you have repeatedly refused to see the difference.
You have always resorted to your own strongly held but misguided subjective views whenever presented with the problems in the Islamic religion. The vitriol in your post says so much about you and your inability to address these problems. Your inability or refusal to address the questions posed only reaffirms your weakness in this area.
He knows what he's doing, he knows he deliberately broad brushes when it comes to a grouping he always attacks that way None of the insinuated shite in your post 38 exists in my mind, YOUR post is a product of what's in YOUR mind. You seem to think it's OK to distort my post to suit your needs/opinions. It isn't OK.
Please DO NOT IMPOSE YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ONTO ME.
(Last comment modified)
Edited by C-too, May 15 2017, 08:57 PM.
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C-too
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May 15 2017, 08:01 AM
Post #47
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepYOU FULL WELL KNOW my point is to show up the fallacy of the comments you project
You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad and I'll point out that IF that was true then all ostensible Christians are worse because the core Christian texts have even worse material. Since you deny the latter linkage then you know full well the first part (that you extol so often) is equally a pile of horseshit. Malicious horseshit as well.
So instead of posting the malicious hate wishing shite of "It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep" why not try posting the honest
"It is the basic understanding of some Muslims that everything belongs to Allah" and "Being indoctrinated to the level that some Muslims are, gives them no option but to follow their religion like sheep"
Of course that wouldn't support a simplistic broad brush hate platform would it. So if you don't want to be seen as such a nasty advocate you know what to do.
---"You post that all muslims are bad because some islamic texts are bad"--- That is a false accusation If I meant all Muslims I would have said all Muslims. It is a deviation beyond ridiculous to assume I meant all Muslims, so please do not distort my posts in order to impose your biased approach to Islam. You should perhaps ask for clarification instead of jumping to sick conclusions and posting your subjective offensive shite. I do not hate Muslims, I have posted time and time again that I do not have a problem with good people regardless of their politics, sexual orientation or their religion. BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM. Pity you have repeatedly refused to see the difference. You have always resorted to your own strongly held but misguided subjective views whenever presented with the problems in the Islamic religion. The vitriol in your post says so much about you and your inability to address these problems. Your inability or refusal to address the questions posed only reaffirms your weakness in this area.
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Steve K
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May 15 2017, 08:09 AM
Post #48
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- C-too
- May 15 2017, 07:56 AM
Please DO NOT IMPOSE YOUR SICKNESS ONTO ME.
ad homs like that stop now
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Steve K
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May 15 2017, 10:00 AM
Post #49
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There's an important language point at play above.
If for example I was to post "squirrels are mammals, they're known for burying and eating nuts" then it literally means all squirrels are such although in common lazy parlance it could be used as meaning the overwhelming default is such for squirrels. It certainly does not mean that only some squirrels are mammals or only some bury and eat nuts.
So when people use the terms 'muslims' and the 'they', 'them', 'they're' and their' words to describe them in pejorative terms they are going to be asked to justify such broad brush terms. Same applies to uses of 'politicians', 'labour supporters', 'Tories', 'MPs', 'the French','Arabs' etc etc.
Don't want that challenge to broad brush language, then use the English language properly.
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RoofGardener
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May 15 2017, 01:30 PM
Post #50
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< sigh > OK, I'll bite; one of the phrases that started this debate about brushes was "..It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah.."
Well, that is beyond debate. It is a core part of doctrine. It is in the Koran, which is regarded as primary and literal truth by all muslims, by definition .
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Steve K
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May 15 2017, 01:39 PM
Post #51
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- May 15 2017, 01:30 PM
< sigh > OK, I'll bite; one of the phrases that started this debate about brushes was "..It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah.."
Well, that is beyond debate. It is a core part of doctrine. It is in the Koran, which is regarded as primary and literal truth by all muslims, by definition . No it's not beyond debate, it is highly questionable
Does every Christian accept everything in the Bible? No, so why say such dogma only applies to muslims?
[1] eg the taking of young girls to "use as you wish" after killing their parents and brothers (book of Numbers)
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RoofGardener
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May 15 2017, 02:15 PM
Post #52
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< sigh > OK, I'll bite; one of the phrases that started this debate about brushes was "..It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah.."
Well, that is beyond debate. It is a core part of doctrine. It is in the Koran, which is regarded as primary and literal truth by all muslims, by definition .
No it's not beyond debate, it is highly questionable Does every Christian accept everything in the Bible ? No, so why say such dogma only applies to muslims? Islam is not Christianity, or visa versa. The two religions operate under VERY different phillosophies and methodologies. A Christian is somebody who accepts Christ as the redeemer. Following the Bible - even the New Testament - is not mandated.
Islam has a similar belief in Allah, but following the Koran is mandatory.
The Bible is not the Word of Christ. There is no "gospel according to Jesus". The nearest comparison that the Bible comes to within the Islamic canon would be a Hadith. Or perhaps a Sunnah. Or both.
The Koran, on the other hand, is the actual uncorrupted words of Allah, through the medium of Mohammed.
Can you give me any examples of where any group of Muslims - current or historic - have disagreed with any aspect of the Koran ? (without being subsequently castigated by Islamic scholars as "not muslims" ? ).
[1] eg the taking of young girls to "use as you wish" after killing their parents and brothers (book of Numbers)
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Happy Hornet
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May 15 2017, 02:18 PM
Post #53
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< sigh > OK, I'll bite; one of the phrases that started this debate about brushes was "..It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah.."
Well, that is beyond debate. It is a core part of doctrine. It is in the Koran, which is regarded as primary and literal truth by all muslims, by definition .
No it's not beyond debate, it is highly questionable Does every Christian accept everything in the Bible ? No, so why say such dogma only applies to muslims? I've never known a single follower, of any faith, including Islam, who follows their faith strictly to the letter at all times.
Who here has? [1] eg the taking of young girls to "use as you wish" after killing their parents and brothers (book of Numbers)
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Steve K
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May 15 2017, 02:40 PM
Post #54
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< sigh > OK, I'll bite; one of the phrases that started this debate about brushes was "..It is the basic understanding of Muslims that everything belongs to Allah.."
Well, that is beyond debate. It is a core part of doctrine. It is in the Koran, which is regarded as primary and literal truth by all muslims, by definition .
No it's not beyond debate, it is highly questionable Does every Christian accept everything in the Bible ? No, so why say such dogma only applies to muslims?
I've never known a single follower, of any faith, including Islam, who follows their faith strictly to the letter at all times. Who here has? Exactly
But sadly it suits some to arbitrarily demonise a religion they associate more with foreigners and foreign born. [1] eg the taking of young girls to "use as you wish" after killing their parents and brothers (book of Numbers)
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RoofGardener
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May 15 2017, 03:24 PM
Post #55
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Exactly
But sadly it suits some to arbitrarily demonise a religion they associate more with foreigners and foreign born. Did somebody say something about broad brushes ? :(
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Steve K
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May 15 2017, 05:11 PM
Post #56
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Exactly
But sadly it suits some to arbitrarily demonise a religion they associate more with foreigners and foreign born.
Did somebody say something about broad brushes ? :( Do look up the meaning of the word 'some'. You'll see I used it in my post you accused of broad brushing.
You could look up 'apology' too
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Rich
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May 15 2017, 08:46 PM
Post #57
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Exactly
But sadly it suits some to arbitrarily demonise a religion they associate more with foreigners and foreign born.
Did somebody say something about broad brushes ? :(
Do look up the meaning of the word 'some'. You'll see I used it in my post you accused of broad brushing. You could look up 'apology' too Blimey, and they call me out for being pedantic.
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Steve K
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May 15 2017, 09:03 PM
Post #58
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Do look up the meaning of the word 'some'. You'll see I used it in my post you accused of broad brushing. You could look up 'apology' too
Blimey, and they call me out for being pedantic. Nope, that word and broad brushing islamaphobes aversion to using it, is the crux of this line of debate
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C-too
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May 15 2017, 09:16 PM
Post #59
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep by definition ? No, so why say such dogma only applies to muslims?
I've never known a single follower, of any faith, including Islam, who follows their faith strictly to the letter at all times. Who here has?
Exactly But sadly it suits some to arbitrarily demonise a religion they associate more with foreigners and foreign born. Demonise the religion yes, demonise Muslims no.
I posted "IMO the religion carries the worst overtones of cultism." (i.e. indoctrination)
"That doesn't mean every or even most Muslims are bad",
"but it does IMO mean that Islam is a threat to Western civilisation, no matter how long it takes."
That is my basic position, as expounded in my first post. It is a position based upon the fact the Islamic practise includes daily self-indoctrination. Perhaps the reality here is that I am probably more aware than most as to just how powerfully influential over the thinking brain an indoctrinated emotional system can be.
What was the Jesuit saying about give me the boy at age 7 ------ ?
[1] eg the taking of young girls to "use as you wish" after killing their parents and brothers (book of Numbers)
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Rich
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May 15 2017, 09:20 PM
Post #60
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep by definition
Exactly But sadly it suits some to arbitrarily demonise a religion they associate more with foreigners and foreign born.
Demonise the religion yes, demonise Muslims no. I posted "IMO the religion carries the worst overtones of cultism." (i.e. indoctrination) "That doesn't mean every or even most Muslims are bad", "but it does IMO mean that Islam is a threat to Western civilisation, no matter how long it takes." That is my basic position, as expounded in my first post. It is a position based upon the fact the Islamic practise includes daily self-indoctrination. Perhaps the reality here is that I am probably more aware than most as to just how powerfully influential over the thinking brain an indoctrinated emotional system can be. What was the Jesuit saying about give me the boy at age 7 ------ ? Well, for what it's worth, I understood that "Islam" is an ideology as opposed to a religion.
Why do I say this, well, I religiously go to work but work is not something that I would blow myself up for in order to kill innocent people. [1] eg the taking of young girls to "use as you wish" after killing their parents and brothers (book of Numbers)
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RoofGardener
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May 16 2017, 12:31 PM
Post #61
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Exactly
But sadly it suits some to arbitrarily demonise a religion they associate more with foreigners and foreign born.
Did somebody say something about broad brushes ? :(
Do look up the meaning of the word 'some'. You'll see I used it in my post you accused of broad brushing. You could look up 'apology' too

Perhaps we should have one as an emote/emojii ?
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C-too
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May 16 2017, 04:40 PM
Post #62
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep by definition
Demonise the religion yes, demonise Muslims no. I posted "IMO the religion carries the worst overtones of cultism." (i.e. indoctrination) "That doesn't mean every or even most Muslims are bad", "but it does IMO mean that Islam is a threat to Western civilisation, no matter how long it takes." That is my basic position, as expounded in my first post. It is a position based upon the fact the Islamic practise includes daily self-indoctrination. Perhaps the reality here is that I am probably more aware than most as to just how powerfully influential over the thinking brain an indoctrinated emotional system can be. What was the Jesuit saying about give me the boy at age 7 ------ ?
Well, for what it's worth, I understood that "Islam" is an ideology as opposed to a religion. Why do I say this, well, I religiously go to work but work is not something that I would blow myself up for in order to kill innocent people. There is a difference.
Religion vs Ideology "Religion and Ideology are two terms that are likely to be confused due to the closeness in their meanings and concepts. Religion consists in the belief in a superhuman controlling power especially in a personal God or gods entitled to worship ( Defined by The Concise Oxford Dictionary). In other words religion is the branch of knowledge that deals with the methodology of worship and the praise of God.
On the other hand ideology deals with the system of ideas at the basis of an economic or political theory. For example the Marxist ideology deals with the system of ideas at the basis of political theory. In other words it may be said that ideology has the basis in either economics or politics. This is the main difference between religion and ideology"
[1] eg the taking of young girls to "use as you wish" after killing their parents and brothers (book of Numbers)
Edited by C-too, May 16 2017, 04:44 PM.
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RoofGardener
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May 16 2017, 05:07 PM
Post #63
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So is theology the ideology of religion ?
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C-too
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May 16 2017, 10:54 PM
Post #64
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My computer has just started emitting steam
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Rich
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May 17 2017, 12:14 AM
Post #65
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- C-too
- May 16 2017, 10:54 PM
My computer has just started emitting steam It probably needs a good clean out and leave some room for common sense.
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Oddball
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May 17 2017, 05:41 AM
Post #66
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- RoofGardener
- May 16 2017, 05:07 PM
So is theology the ideology of religion ? Strictly speaking an 'ology' is the 'study of something', but as usual, with religion, as with many other things, 'feelings' and 'bias' tend to cloud any true 'study of the something' - a case of more heat than light so often, methinks.
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C-too
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May 17 2017, 01:44 PM
Post #67
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- Rich
- May 17 2017, 12:14 AM
- C-too
- May 16 2017, 10:54 PM
My computer has just started emitting steam
It probably needs a good clean out and leave some room for common sense. From a right-winger
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