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Mosque attack in Canada; Several killed in gun attack.
Topic Started: Jan 30 2017, 12:06 PM (679 Views)
RoofGardener
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There's an awful story from Quebec. Two gunmen entered a mosque in Quebec City and opened fire in the men's worship area on Sunday evening. The news outlets are talking about 6 dead and many injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Quebec_City_mosque_shooting
Edited by RoofGardener, Jan 30 2017, 12:07 PM.
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Steve K
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as you say, awful

Exact motives unclear at the moment but clearly terrorism. Appalling for the victims, bereaved and terrorised

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RoofGardener
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Hmm... I wonder how long that "terrorism" tag will continue for ? It appears that there are some indications that the attackers where muslims.

Witnesses report that one of the attackers was shouting "Alluha Ahkbar".
One of the two suspects under arrest is one Mohamed Khadir. of Moroccan origins.

Nothing definitive, but.... curious.
Edited by RoofGardener, Jan 30 2017, 03:54 PM.
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Alberich
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I read that. Sunni versus Shia, perhaps?
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RoofGardener
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Well, the broth thickens, and I have probably been the victim of "fake news" from ABC and various other mainstream media outlets.

Radio 4 now says that only ONE of the two people arrested is still regarded as a suspect; the other is being treated as a witness. lets see what the morning brings.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Jan 30 2017, 05:57 PM
Well, the broth thickens, and I have probably been the victim of "fake news" from ABC and various other mainstream media outlets.

Radio 4 now says that only ONE of the two people arrested is still regarded as a suspect; the other is being treated as a witness. lets see what the morning brings.
Not so much fake news but the usual chaos in 'witness' statements after such a horrendous event
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RoofGardener
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Well, it seems like a pretty serious error. If the "only one suspect" version is true, then the Canadian press (or the police department) ended up NAMING a witness, which must surely be a serious breach of confidentiality ?

It all seems rather odd.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Jan 30 2017, 06:14 PM
Well, it seems like a pretty serious error. If the "only one suspect" version is true, then the Canadian press (or the police department) ended up NAMING a witness, which must surely be a serious breach of confidentiality ?

It all seems rather odd.
Happens all the time as does those Allahu Akbar witness statements that too often turn out to be from non witnesses just someone that the media interviewed and said they were a witness

Violent death scenes are complete chaos, they likely always will be.
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Tigger
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The one with an Arabic sounding name has been released? But the one with a French sounding name has been arrested after holing up in his SUV, obviously with the intention of being caught. He's the gunman apparently.
Edited by Tigger, Jan 30 2017, 08:18 PM.
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Steve K
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Is Trump now going to place a border ban on Canadians with French sounding names?
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Curious Cdn
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RoofGardener
Jan 30 2017, 06:14 PM
Well, it seems like a pretty serious error. If the "only one suspect" version is true, then the Canadian press (or the police department) ended up NAMING a witness, which must surely be a serious breach of confidentiality ?

It all seems rather odd.
Yes, it is very odd.

First, good on the Prime Minister for calling it Terrorism, right off the hop. We get tired of "Oh, well ... he's deranged ... his father used to beat him" yada, yada, yada.
Shooting up anyone's house of worship is Terrorism and nothing else.

The suspect / witness screw up is bizarre. It appears that the Sûreté du Québec arrested the witness who made the 9-1-1 call (equiv to your 999), like the Keystone Cops that they are known to be. They also arrested a suspect shooter that apparently still had his weapons but gave up without a fight.

So they have two guys ... one a witness and one a suspect. One is a Moroccan Muslim and the other is a French Quebecer. The thing is, the Sûreté is not saying which is which! If the witness is the Arab ...entirely plausible in an attack on a mosque ... and the attacker is some white supremist Quebecois ... not out of the question, the outcome is entirely different than if the attacker is a Muslim terrorist and the witness is a local. Either way , it is an act of terrorism but depending on who did what to whom, the conclusions and outcome are utterly different.

Canada has been lucky to mostly escape this sort of horror, up to now. But it's so ambiguous, you see! Even when we get the "truth" of the matter, it is likely to remain so. May you live in interesting times, indeed!
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Curious Cdn
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Steve K
Jan 30 2017, 08:25 PM
Is Trump now going to place a border ban on Canadians with French sounding names?
I hope that he bans us all and builds a big, fucking wall to keep his people out!
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Tigger
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Curious Cdn
Jan 30 2017, 09:09 PM
I hope that he bans us all and builds a big, fucking wall to keep his people out!
Go for the cheap option and mine the lakes along your shared border, we all know it makes sense.
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papasmurf
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Curious Cdn
Jan 30 2017, 09:09 PM
I hope that he bans us all and builds a big, fucking wall to keep his people out!
Any visible sign of American refugees coming North over the border yet?
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Steve K
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Curious Cdn
Jan 30 2017, 09:07 PM
RoofGardener
Jan 30 2017, 06:14 PM
Well, it seems like a pretty serious error. If the "only one suspect" version is true, then the Canadian press (or the police department) ended up NAMING a witness, which must surely be a serious breach of confidentiality ?

It all seems rather odd.
Yes, it is very odd.

First, good on the Prime Minister for calling it Terrorism, right off the hop. We get tired of "Oh, well ... he's deranged ... his father used to beat him" yada, yada, yada.
Shooting up anyone's house of worship is Terrorism and nothing else.

The suspect / witness screw up is bizarre. It appears that the Sûreté du Québec arrested the witness who made the 9-1-1 call (equiv to your 999), like the Keystone Cops that they are known to be. They also arrested a suspect shooter that apparently still had his weapons but gave up without a fight.

So they have two guys ... one a witness and one a suspect. One is a Moroccan Muslim and the other is a French Quebecer. The thing is, the Sûreté is not saying which is which! If the witness is the Arab ...entirely plausible in an attack on a mosque ... and the attacker is some white supremist Quebecois ... not out of the question, the outcome is entirely different than if the attacker is a Muslim terrorist and the witness is a local. Either way , it is an act of terrorism but depending on who did what to whom, the conclusions and outcome are utterly different.

Canada has been lucky to mostly escape this sort of horror, up to now. But it's so ambiguous, you see! Even when we get the "truth" of the matter, it is likely to remain so. May you live in interesting times, indeed!
!clp! a voice of reason
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Curious Cdn
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papasmurf
Jan 30 2017, 09:54 PM
Curious Cdn
Jan 30 2017, 09:09 PM
I hope that he bans us all and builds a big, fucking wall to keep his people out!
Any visible sign of American refugees coming North over the border yet?
Refugees have been sneaking north over the Canadian border for several years, now. If you asked a Yank, he'd be 100% convinced that the traffic is from Canada, Mexico ... everywhere straight into the United States.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ctvnews.ca/illegal-aliens-entering-canada-from-u-s-wikileaks-1.637741&ved=0ahUKEwjn0KqG_-rRAhWg0YMKHePyCpAQFgg2MAI&usg=AFQjCNESZktqB4vNNmrTg67Igy0SYSb2xg&sig2=jaMmrg-kjP2KoacRJy24SQ

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/manitoba/refugees-frostbite-highway-75-winnipeg-1.3923430

This problem is years old. It is much easier to enter the United's States than it is to be admitted into Canada but it is much harder to STAY I the USA, so they enter Canada, illegally, where they are granted assylum.


BTW, our government may be in the process of offering sanctuary to Syrians, etc.caught in limbo down in the States. The logistics are a nightmare but Canadians seem generally positive to the idea. We settled 40,000 Syrian refugees with NO trouble and nary a peep out of them. It seems that if you treat people with respect, they will usually treat you with respect.That idea, by the way, is the philosophical foundation of all sorts of our religions.
Edited by Curious Cdn, Jan 30 2017, 11:23 PM.
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Steve K
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They've charged right wing uber nationalist Alexandre Bissonnette with the six murders

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38805163
Edited by Steve K, Jan 31 2017, 12:25 AM.
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Curious Cdn
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Thanks, Hillary!
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RoofGardener
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How do we know he had "far-right views" ?

The BBC reported this, without explaining where the information came from.
The link that Steve kindly posted merely contains this snippet;
bbc
 

...Francois Deschamps, an official with an advocacy group, Welcome to Refugees, said the suspect was known for his far-right views.

Mr Bissonnette was "unfortunately known to many activists in Quebec for taking nationalist, pro-Le Pen and anti-feminist positions at Laval University and on social media," Mr Deschamps posted on the organisation's Facebook page...

Is THAT the only source ? A pro-refugee activist, who doesn't even explain how he knows Bissonnette ? That seems a bit... weak ?

Mind you, everything about the reporting of this event has been a bit weird so far.

Finally, how do you know he was a taxi driver, Steve ?
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papasmurf
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RoofGardener
Jan 31 2017, 11:15 AM


Finally, how do you know he was a taxi driver, Steve ?
I suspect misreading a search. Do a Google on Bissonette and Taxi Driver.
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RoofGardener
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I was referring to SteveK's comment about him being an Uber Nationalist, Papa' :P
Edited by RoofGardener, Jan 31 2017, 12:04 PM.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Jan 31 2017, 12:03 PM
I was referring to SteveK's comment about him being an Uber Nationalist, Papa' :P
I made no comment at all about him and taxis so not sure where you got that from

Several sources had reported his ubernationalist right wing views. Just one Quebec based example:
Quote:
 
Éric Debroise knew him and contacted the police, after the tragedy, to inform them about his ideals "very right and ultra nationalist white supremacist," he explains.
Link (translation from French will be needed)
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Jan 31 2017, 12:29 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Steve K, Jan 31 2017, 12:34 PM.
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Steve K
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!mod-s! please respect rule 11

" . . .the posting of long or full extracts particularly without crediting the source is disruptive and likely to be illegal breach of copyright. "
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Jan 31 2017, 12:36 PM
!mod-s! please respect rule 11

" . . .the posting of long or full extracts particularly without crediting the source is disruptive and likely to be illegal breach of copyright. "
All I did was do the translating into French from the source already quoted (FFS.)
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Jan 31 2017, 12:37 PM
Steve K
Jan 31 2017, 12:36 PM
!mod-s! please respect rule 11

" . . .the posting of long or full extracts particularly without crediting the source is disruptive and likely to be illegal breach of copyright. "
All I did was do the translating into French from the source already quoted (FFS.)
and broke rule 11. Do not challenge this further in Main Forum
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RoofGardener
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Steve K
Jan 31 2017, 12:29 PM
RoofGardener
Jan 31 2017, 12:03 PM
I was referring to SteveK's comment about him being an Uber Nationalist, Papa' :P
I made no comment at all about him and taxis so not sure where you got that from

You SO did, SteveK.

In fact.. you just did it again. Ubernationalist.
Edited by RoofGardener, Jan 31 2017, 01:23 PM.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Jan 31 2017, 01:20 PM
Steve K
Jan 31 2017, 12:29 PM
RoofGardener
Jan 31 2017, 12:03 PM
I was referring to SteveK's comment about him being an Uber Nationalist, Papa' :P
I made no comment at all about him and taxis so not sure where you got that from

You SO did, SteveK.

In fact.. you just did it again. Ubernationalist.
 ::)
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Tigger
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Looks like the alleged killer was a right wing nut job of the sort that killed MP Jo Cox.

I wonder if he too has a scrapbook with cuttings from the Daily Mail in it? :rubchin:
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Curious Cdn
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RoofGardener
Jan 31 2017, 11:15 AM
How do we know he had "far-right views" ?

The BBC reported this, without explaining where the information came from.
The link that Steve kindly posted merely contains this snippet;
bbc
 

...Francois Deschamps, an official with an advocacy group, Welcome to Refugees, said the suspect was known for his far-right views.

Mr Bissonnette was "unfortunately known to many activists in Quebec for taking nationalist, pro-Le Pen and anti-feminist positions at Laval University and on social media," Mr Deschamps posted on the organisation's Facebook page...

Is THAT the only source ? A pro-refugee activist, who doesn't even explain how he knows Bissonnette ? That seems a bit... weak ?

Mind you, everything about the reporting of this event has been a bit weird so far.

Finally, how do you know he was a taxi driver, Steve ?
Like pretty much everyone like him, these days, this guy has left a substantial internet footprint behind him and he is a prolific twitterer. His ultra-right views are there for all to see although, curiously, one of his"like" people is the former leader of the Socialist NDP party. Strange bedfellows.
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marybrown
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Tigger
Jan 31 2017, 08:09 PM
Looks like the alleged killer was a right wing nut job of the sort that killed MP Jo Cox.

I wonder if he too has a scrapbook with cuttings from the Daily Mail in it? :rubchin:
Do the left wing nutters read the Guardian?
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marybrown
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Well of course..we must all make excuses for him!! When will you stupid people learn??
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Tigger
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marybrown
Feb 2 2017, 04:56 PM
Tigger
Jan 31 2017, 08:09 PM
Looks like the alleged killer was a right wing nut job of the sort that killed MP Jo Cox.

I wonder if he too has a scrapbook with cuttings from the Daily Mail in it? :rubchin:
Do the left wing nutters read the Guardian?
Probably, but they don't seem to stir up race hate and bigotry and collect it in scrapbooks.

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marybrown
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Tigger
Feb 2 2017, 04:59 PM
marybrown
Feb 2 2017, 04:56 PM
Tigger
Jan 31 2017, 08:09 PM
Looks like the alleged killer was a right wing nut job of the sort that killed MP Jo Cox.

I wonder if he too has a scrapbook with cuttings from the Daily Mail in it? :rubchin:
Do the left wing nutters read the Guardian?
Probably, but they don't seem to stir up race hate and bigotry and collect it in scrapbooks.

What do they collect in scrapbooks?? Unicorns..rainbows..bunny wabbits?
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Tigger
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marybrown
Feb 2 2017, 05:04 PM
What do they collect in scrapbooks?? Unicorns..rainbows..bunny wabbits?
Hopefully yes, after all love is better than hate isn't it? :)
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marybrown
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Tigger
Feb 2 2017, 05:30 PM
marybrown
Feb 2 2017, 05:04 PM
What do they collect in scrapbooks?? Unicorns..rainbows..bunny wabbits?
Hopefully yes, after all love is better than hate isn't it? :)
I suppose whilst getting your head cut off..on a video..it would be much nicer if you thought about unicorns?
Edited by marybrown, Feb 2 2017, 06:00 PM.
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Tigger
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marybrown
Feb 2 2017, 05:58 PM
Tigger
Feb 2 2017, 05:30 PM
marybrown
Feb 2 2017, 05:04 PM
What do they collect in scrapbooks?? Unicorns..rainbows..bunny wabbits?
Hopefully yes, after all love is better than hate isn't it? :)
I suppose whilst getting your head cut off..on a video..it would be much nicer if you thought about unicorns?
Have you filled your scrapbook yet? I suspect you have.
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papasmurf
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Tigger
Feb 2 2017, 06:18 PM
Have you filled your scrapbook yet? I suspect you have.
I wouldn't call it a scrap book, more like half of the loft space, but I do have a collection of paperwork, relating to benefit related deaths since Incapacity Benefit and it's later iterations were introduced, plus more recently deaths related to benefit sanctions.
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marybrown
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Tigger
Feb 2 2017, 06:18 PM
marybrown
Feb 2 2017, 05:58 PM
Tigger
Feb 2 2017, 05:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I suppose whilst getting your head cut off..on a video..it would be much nicer if you thought about unicorns?
Have you filled your scrapbook yet? I suspect you have.
No scrapbook..just undeniable facts..
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Mr Pat
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Media were quick out the blocks with this attack, but not so much this one.

https://youtu.be/Yi4VQvt51KM
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