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Tories telling the truth at long last?; Clarke and Osborne on the EU
Topic Started: Feb 1 2017, 08:17 PM (316 Views)
Tigger
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I give you Ken Clark and George Osborne, the former stood up in the Commons yesterday and took the piss out of the delusions most of his colleagues are living under in regards to our relationship with the EU after Brexit, Alice in Wonderland and talk of self deception featured heavily, and the latter told a silent house the EU will not give a toss about a deal with the UK as it's not a priority for them, this after he spent a few days talking to EU officials, he also explained we could well blunder into WTO rules which would have dire economic consequences.

And it's worth repeating, if you work for a European owned company and your firm currently exports start looking for another job soon. :)

And is Osborne positioning himself for a shot at the top job in the not too distant future? :rubchin:

Sorry about the truth mongering folks.......
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Steve K
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Tigger
Feb 1 2017, 08:17 PM
I give you Ken Clark and George Osborne, the former stood up in the Commons yesterday and took the piss out of the delusions most of his colleagues are living under in regards to our relationship with the EU after Brexit, Alice in Wonderland and talk of self deception featured heavily, and the latter told a silent house the EU will not give a toss about a deal with the UK as it's not a priority for them, this after he spent a few days talking to EU officials, he also explained we could well blunder into WTO rules which would have dire economic consequences.

And it's worth repeating, if you work for a European owned company and your firm currently exports start looking for another job soon. :)

And is Osborne positioning himself for a shot at the top job in the not too distant future? :rubchin:

Sorry about the truth mongering folks.......
"Sorry about the truth mongering folks......."

Fibber

But yes to the rest of your post. BTW I added a topic subtitle
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Affa
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Well; what do they know?
'Half In, Half Out' never ever to be repeated again .......... who was it that kept on saying that's where ought to be?
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Tigger
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I'm looking forward to Brexit now, comedy gold on the way!
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Steve K
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Tigger
Feb 1 2017, 09:03 PM
I'm looking forward to Brexit now, comedy gold on the way!
They could make a movie: The UK, Boris's part in its downfall
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Jessamy Bride
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I could be forgiven for thinking you are desperately willing the fail of the UK

just so you can run around shouting "I told you so"

bit childish isn't it?

Shouldn't we be clubbing together to make the best of things?
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 10:26 PM
I could be forgiven for thinking you are desperately willing the fail of the UK

just so you can run around shouting "I told you so"

bit childish isn't it?

Shouldn't we be clubbing together to make the best of things?
Not guilty

I'm the one wishing we can find a way out of this fiasco. But if clubbing together means collective self delusion like some happy clappy evangelist event count me out

As an example this week we have government sources happily saying we were the fastest growing economy in the developed world in 2016 and pro Brexit media so happy to pass on that message

Actually in international terms, we were much more like the fastest contracting in the developed world. Awkward eh

It won't be a disaster but it certainly won't be better than we were and it will be a lot worse if people keep ignoring reality. The only plan A we've seen is to cuddle up to Donald and hope his 'I can cancel it with 30 days notice if you vote against us at the UN and steel and farm produce isn't included apology for a trade deal' looks better when we've sobered up

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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 10:26 PM


Shouldn't we be clubbing together to make the best of things?
It was supposed to be better outside wasn't it so why do we need to club together to make the best of it?

I'm not convinced we've got the political fire power to handle what is coming, I've no doubt the better off and political classes will breeze through all of this unscathed ensuring they are ok, the problem I have is many people voted with their hearts not their heads, so basically stuff em, you now own this mess!
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Jessamy Bride
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Well in this case "clubbing together" would mean not actively seeking to sabotage our negotiations ....just to massage the fragile egos of those who couldn't stand losing the vote last year.
Its over...we are leaving....such was the vote which was credible and well supported.

Now to make it work for all our benefit. Surely that must be the preferred option.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
you now own this mess!


You own it too Tigger.... (unless you don't live in the UK)
Why self destruct in some sort of petulant fit.
Its our Country.....All of ours.....and we are all going in the same direction.
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 10:51 PM
Well in this case "clubbing together" would mean not actively seeking to sabotage our negotiations ....just to massage the fragile egos of those who couldn't stand losing the vote last year.
Its over...we are leaving....such was the vote which was credible and well supported.

Now to make it work for all our benefit. Surely that must be the preferred option.
How on earth am I "actively seeking to sabotage our negotiations" ?

Please get real, the people doing such are the likes of Boris with his semi regular insults against those we most need to get a decent deal with. And of course those who cheer him on
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Jessamy Bride
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So we "haven't got the political firepower" says who?

They have got a team of professional negotiators ....What else are they supposed to do?

Boris is upsetting people...The EU elite don't give a hoot about Boris. They have got their own problems.
The World doesn't revolve around Boris.

Someone mentioned snowflakes earlier on........There are that many snowflakes.... we all ought to start wearing wellies.
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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 10:55 PM
Quote:
 
you now own this mess!


You own it too Tigger.... (unless you don't live in the UK)
Why self destruct in some sort of petulant fit.
Its our Country.....All of ours.....and we are all going in the same direction.
No I don't own it, and I'm the last person who would self destruct because I'm a bit more thoughtful than those that voted for it, as for all going in the same direction, well that was what got us to where we are isn't it?  ::)
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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:05 PM
So we "haven't got the political firepower" says who?

George Osborne?

Apparently economic matters are well down the list of priorities, next you will be telling us most voted out to be poorer!
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
most voted out to be poorer!


We were told the sky would fall in at the time of the vote...the projections were frightening.
...but voted for Brexit anyway.

As for George Osbourne.....pfft.

There will be a rocky road ahead...we all know that..... but all the gloating negativity won't exactly help the outcome
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:39 PM
Quote:
 
most voted out to be poorer!


We were told the sky would fall in at the time of the vote. . . . .
PorkyPie: ^

Go on see if you can do what no one has yet been able to do and post a link to back that. Not a link to some lying Leaver falsifying what the government or Remain said but actual evidence that it was said by the government or Remain

No one of any wisdom will hold their breath because they know it is a big fat lie that for whatever reason you have passed on.



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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:39 PM


There will be a rocky road ahead...we all know that..... but all the gloating negativity won't exactly help the outcome
I'll just remember all the gloating the day after the referendum.

As I keep saying those who voted for it own it, I'll now just look out for myself in traditional right wing style....
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Jessamy Bride
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Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:43 PM
Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:39 PM
Quote:
 
most voted out to be poorer!


We were told the sky would fall in at the time of the vote. . . . .
PorkyPie: ^

Go on see if you can do what no one has yet been able to do and post a link to back that. Not a link to some lying Leaver falsifying what the government or Remain said but actual evidence that it was said by the government or Remain

No one of any wisdom will hold their breath because they know it is a big fat lie that for whatever reason you have passed on.



I was using a "Chicken Licken" metaphor Steve......which was certainly the way I felt when we went to the polls.

So in that essence... its true.

Unless you want me to prove a metaphor....................................which could be quite tricky. :rubchin:

Quote:
 
I'll now just look out for myself in traditional right wing style


You are part of this Country and we are a collective. We cannot prosper if our neighbours are struggling.
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:59 PM
Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:43 PM
Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:39 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
PorkyPie: ^

Go on see if you can do what no one has yet been able to do and post a link to back that. Not a link to some lying Leaver falsifying what the government or Remain said but actual evidence that it was said by the government or Remain

No one of any wisdom will hold their breath because they know it is a big fat lie that for whatever reason you have passed on.



I was using a "Chicken Licken" metaphor Steve......which was certainly the way I felt when we went to the polls.

So in that essence... its true.

Unless you want me to prove a metaphor....................................which could be quite tricky. :rubchin:

Quote:
 
I'll now just look out for myself in traditional right wing style


You are part of this Country and we are a collective. We cannot prosper if our neighbours are struggling.
I have no doubt that's 'the way you felt when you went to the polls'

It wasn't true though, in fact it was no more true than the "£350M a week" lie, the "EU tea bags recycling lie", the "if it's a 52:48 vote we should have a second referendum" lie, the "EU blocked Crossrail for a year" lie, the "Cameron says we will have WW3" lie etc etc.

You and 40 million voters were repeatedly lied to by the Leave campaigns but that does not make it OK to repeat those lies here does it. So now you acknowledge that 'sky will fall in' comment was untrue, the decent thing would be to self edit your own post to remove it. And of course if you repeat it then it will be a falsehood knowingly stated and you know what that means.



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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:59 PM


You are part of this Country and we are a collective. We cannot prosper if our neighbours are struggling.
What on earth are you on about? Britain has one of the most stratified societies in the World and this division has led to a minority doing very well often at the expense of the rest, and yet despite this we are being told we ARE doing well!

I'm afraid as the job losses slowly start to happen and the empty promises become hollow victories those divisions will be wider than ever, you can't pay your way in the World with patriotism and tub thumping.
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:59 PM
. . .We cannot prosper if our neighbours are struggling.
What do you mean by 'our neighbours' If you mean the rest of the EU then collectively they're doing very well esp as they haven't had to devalue their currency so it looks locally like growth
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johnofgwent
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Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:43 PM
Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:39 PM
Quote:
 
most voted out to be poorer!


We were told the sky would fall in at the time of the vote. . . . .
PorkyPie: ^

Go on see if you can do what no one has yet been able to do and post a link to back that. Not a link to some lying Leaver falsifying what the government or Remain said but actual evidence that it was said by the government or Remain

No one of any wisdom will hold their breath because they know it is a big fat lie that for whatever reason you have passed on.



OK stevek, you really asked for this

Here is the independent newspaper's transcript of what cameron said on the day before the referndum

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-latest-live-david-cameron-full-speech-remain-leave-a7093426.html

I do not wish to be consiered the breaker of the latest rule against which people seem to be acting ... copying and pasting large chunks ... BUT what do I see here ...


Above all, it’s about our economy.

"It will be stronger if we stay.

"It will be weaker if we leave.

"That’s a huge risk to Britain – to British families; to British jobs – and it’s irreversible.

"There is no going back.

"And it’s also about our national security, too.

"My first responsibility is to keep you safe.

"Some of the most important moments behind that door are when you’re reading the intelligence reports…

"…taking in the most chilling details about those who are planning to do us harm.

I see Cameron bullshitting in the clearest possible terms that leaving the EU will screw with our national security and rain down upon us all the unfettered, unopposed vengeance of some unnamed, and imo non-existent, "group who mean us ill".

It is the same bollocks as Blair used with his dodgy fucking dossier, and pardon me, what the fuck other than "the sky will fall in if we leave" am i supposed to make of cameron's balderash, as reported by the independent, and available on christ knows how many youtube vids


Now, do you want some ketchup and chips and beer to wash down that PorkyPie: you're youing to have to eat ???
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Tigger
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Is it worth pointing out yet again we've yet to leave and the big stick has yet to be taken to the British economy?

Still things are shaping up nicely with the job losses coming up due to the UK no longer being a gateway into the single market, not to mention all the QE seeping into the economy boosting personal and private debt to fuel economic growth, surely we aren't repeating past errors but this time with a knife to the economies throat?

Yes we are! :facepalm:
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Steve K
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johnofgwent
Feb 2 2017, 08:29 PM
Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:43 PM
Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 11:39 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
PorkyPie: ^

Go on see if you can do what no one has yet been able to do and post a link to back that. Not a link to some lying Leaver falsifying what the government or Remain said but actual evidence that it was said by the government or Remain

No one of any wisdom will hold their breath because they know it is a big fat lie that for whatever reason you have passed on.



OK stevek, you really asked for this

Here is the independent newspaper's transcript of what cameron said on the day before the referndum

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-latest-live-david-cameron-full-speech-remain-leave-a7093426.html

I do not wish to be consiered the breaker of the latest rule against which people seem to be acting ... copying and pasting large chunks ... BUT what do I see here ...


Above all, it’s about our economy.

"It will be stronger if we stay.

"It will be weaker if we leave.

"That’s a huge risk to Britain – to British families; to British jobs – and it’s irreversible.

"There is no going back.

"And it’s also about our national security, too.

"My first responsibility is to keep you safe.

"Some of the most important moments behind that door are when you’re reading the intelligence reports…

"…taking in the most chilling details about those who are planning to do us harm.

I see Cameron bullshitting in the clearest possible terms that leaving the EU will screw with our national security and rain down upon us all the unfettered, unopposed vengeance of some unnamed, and imo non-existent, "group who mean us ill".

It is the same bollocks as Blair used with his dodgy fucking dossier, and pardon me, what the fuck other than "the sky will fall in if we leave" am i supposed to make of cameron's balderash, as reported by the independent, and available on christ knows how many youtube vids



Now, do you want some ketchup and chips and beer to wash down that PorkyPie: you're youing to have to eat ???
No need John. You just proved I was right

He never said they'd be "a disaster", "WW3" or even Jess's "the sky will fall in". They were all lies made up by the Leave campaigns and their pawns. He talked of risks and of what is already a reality, that the economy has suffered


Awkward eh??

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Rich
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Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 11:30 PM
johnofgwent
Feb 2 2017, 08:29 PM
Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:43 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
OK stevek, you really asked for this

Here is the independent newspaper's transcript of what cameron said on the day before the referndum

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-latest-live-david-cameron-full-speech-remain-leave-a7093426.html

I do not wish to be consiered the breaker of the latest rule against which people seem to be acting ... copying and pasting large chunks ... BUT what do I see here ...


Above all, it’s about our economy.

"It will be stronger if we stay.

"It will be weaker if we leave.

"That’s a huge risk to Britain – to British families; to British jobs – and it’s irreversible.

"There is no going back.

"And it’s also about our national security, too.

"My first responsibility is to keep you safe.

"Some of the most important moments behind that door are when you’re reading the intelligence reports…

"…taking in the most chilling details about those who are planning to do us harm.

I see Cameron bullshitting in the clearest possible terms that leaving the EU will screw with our national security and rain down upon us all the unfettered, unopposed vengeance of some unnamed, and imo non-existent, "group who mean us ill".

It is the same bollocks as Blair used with his dodgy fucking dossier, and pardon me, what the fuck other than "the sky will fall in if we leave" am i supposed to make of cameron's balderash, as reported by the independent, and available on christ knows how many youtube vids



Now, do you want some ketchup and chips and beer to wash down that PorkyPie: you're youing to have to eat ???
No need John. You just proved I was right

He never said they'd be "a disaster", "WW3" or even Jess's "the sky will fall in". They were all lies made up by the Leave campaigns and their pawns. He talked of risks and of what is already a reality, that the economy has suffered


Awkward eh??

Well, whatever he and the other ministerial mouthpieces said, a big chunk of the voting electorate did not believe him and them and voted accordingly just as a big but lesser chunk disbelieved the leavers claims.

Does it matter, have the remainers still not got the message, more people want to leave the EU than want to remain......end of.

And if Cameron had had any spine he would have done so immediately and then resigned.
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Steve K
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Rich
Feb 2 2017, 11:36 PM
Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 11:30 PM
johnofgwent
Feb 2 2017, 08:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-latest-live-david-cameron-full-speech-remain-leave-a7093426.html

I do not wish to be consiered the breaker of the latest rule against which people seem to be acting ... copying and pasting large chunks ... BUT what do I see here ...


Above all, it’s about our economy.

"It will be stronger if we stay.

"It will be weaker if we leave.

"That’s a huge risk to Britain – to British families; to British jobs – and it’s irreversible.

"There is no going back.

"And it’s also about our national security, too.

"My first responsibility is to keep you safe.

"Some of the most important moments behind that door are when you’re reading the intelligence reports…

"…taking in the most chilling details about those who are planning to do us harm.

I see Cameron bullshitting in the clearest possible terms that leaving the EU will screw with our national security and rain down upon us all the unfettered, unopposed vengeance of some unnamed, and imo non-existent, "group who mean us ill".

It is the same bollocks as Blair used with his dodgy fucking dossier, and pardon me, what the fuck other than "the sky will fall in if we leave" am i supposed to make of cameron's balderash, as reported by the independent, and available on christ knows how many youtube vids



Now, do you want some ketchup and chips and beer to wash down that PorkyPie: you're youing to have to eat ???
No need John. You just proved I was right

He never said they'd be "a disaster", "WW3" or even Jess's "the sky will fall in". They were all lies made up by the Leave campaigns and their pawns. He talked of risks and of what is already a reality, that the economy has suffered


Awkward eh??

Well, whatever he and the other ministerial mouthpieces said, a big chunk of the voting electorate did not believe him and them and voted accordingly just as a big but lesser chunk disbelieved the leavers claims.

Does it matter, have the remainers still not got the message, more people want to leave the EU than want to remain......end of.

And if Cameron had had any spine he would have done so immediately and then resigned.
Ah but it turns out he would then likely have been prosecuted for misconduct in public office
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Rich
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Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 11:43 PM
Rich
Feb 2 2017, 11:36 PM
Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 11:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-latest-live-david-cameron-full-speech-remain-leave-a7093426.html

I do not wish to be consiered the breaker of the latest rule against which people seem to be acting ... copying and pasting large chunks ... BUT what do I see here ...


Above all, it’s about our economy.

"It will be stronger if we stay.

"It will be weaker if we leave.

"That’s a huge risk to Britain – to British families; to British jobs – and it’s irreversible.

"There is no going back.

"And it’s also about our national security, too.

"My first responsibility is to keep you safe.

"Some of the most important moments behind that door are when you’re reading the intelligence reports…

"…taking in the most chilling details about those who are planning to do us harm.

I see Cameron bullshitting in the clearest possible terms that leaving the EU will screw with our national security and rain down upon us all the unfettered, unopposed vengeance of some unnamed, and imo non-existent, "group who mean us ill".

It is the same bollocks as Blair used with his dodgy fucking dossier, and pardon me, what the fuck other than "the sky will fall in if we leave" am i supposed to make of cameron's balderash, as reported by the independent, and available on christ knows how many youtube vids
I was right

He never said they'd be "a disaster", "WW3" or even Jess's "the sky will fall in". They were all lies made up by the Leave campaigns and their pawns. He talked of risks and of what is already a reality, that the economy has suffered


Awkward eh??

Well, whatever he and the other ministerial mouthpieces said, a big chunk of the voting electorate did not believe him and them and voted accordingly just as a big but lesser chunk disbelieved the leavers claims.

Does it matter, have the remainers still not got the message, more people want to leave the EU than want to remain......end of.

And if Cameron had had any spine he would have done so immediately and then resigned.
Ah but it turns out he would then likely have been prosecuted for misconduct in public office
You will have to explain that one to me.
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Tigger
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Rich
Feb 2 2017, 11:48 PM
You will have to explain that one to me.


Really?

Well you might remember the £ crashing and billions being wiped of the value of British companies in the aftermath of the vote, now imagine what would have happened if A50 HAD been triggered the next day without any thoughts or considerations?

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Steve K
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Rich
Feb 2 2017, 11:48 PM
You will have to explain that one to me.
Well the Supreme Court has just ruled that he never had the legal power to do that and had he done so illegally and the EU said 'done' then it would not just have been misconduct in a public office but he could also have been sued.
Edited by Steve K, Feb 3 2017, 12:27 AM.
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Rich
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Steve K
Feb 3 2017, 12:24 AM
Well the Supreme Court has just ruled that he never had the legal power to do that and had he done so illegally and the EU said 'done' then it would not just have been misconduct in a public office but he could also have been sued.
One wonders then if he knew that, because he said, iirc, that he would abide by the outcome of the referendum and trigger article 50 if need be......no wonder that people become cynical with regard to politicians.
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Steve K
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Rich
Feb 3 2017, 12:29 AM
Steve K
Feb 3 2017, 12:24 AM
Well the Supreme Court has just ruled that he never had the legal power to do that and had he done so illegally and the EU said 'done' then it would not just have been misconduct in a public office but he could also have been sued.
One wonders then if he knew that, because he said, iirc, that he would abide by the outcome of the referendum and trigger article 50 if need be......no wonder that people become cynical with regard to politicians.
Seems he either was misadvised or was just plain stupid and didn't check
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Rich
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Steve K
Feb 3 2017, 12:36 AM
Rich
Feb 3 2017, 12:29 AM
Steve K
Feb 3 2017, 12:24 AM
Well the Supreme Court has just ruled that he never had the legal power to do that and had he done so illegally and the EU said 'done' then it would not just have been misconduct in a public office but he could also have been sued.
One wonders then if he knew that, because he said, iirc, that he would abide by the outcome of the referendum and trigger article 50 if need be......no wonder that people become cynical with regard to politicians.
Seems he either was misadvised or was just plain stupid and didn't check
Apparently the tory party are the cream of society......rich, thick and full of clots.
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