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Brexit: MPs overwhelmingly back Article 50 bill
Topic Started: Feb 1 2017, 11:11 PM (316 Views)
Cymru
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38833883

Vote had a 384 majority. /8/

Labour shooting itself in the foot with resignations.
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Steve K
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Now the real fun begins with the report and committee stages
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Tigger
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All I can say is get on with it ffs.
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Affa
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Cymru
Feb 1 2017, 11:11 PM


Labour shooting itself in the foot with resignations.

Wets resigning is the best thing for Corbyn, for the Labour party, for there to concerted and relevant opposition, and imo for the country.

Eventually more and more of you here will come to realise that my repeated applause for how politically savvy Corbyn has been really is worthy of respect.

I'd call him 'visionary', but reserve that for myself - I did see what's coming, and we haven't seen the best of it yet.
His task is to take on the Establishment. A huge ask!
There's no certainty he will succeed in breaking their strangle hold, but of this I'm sure - he'll stop them in their tracks from selling the nation out to foreigners.



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Steve K
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It's bad for Corbyn though. Some of his official whips defied a 3 line whip
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:56 PM
It's bad for Corbyn though. Some of his official whips defied a 3 line whip
If memory serves Corbyn has voted against his own party over 400 times.
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Affa
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papasmurf
Feb 2 2017, 09:35 AM
Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:56 PM
It's bad for Corbyn though. Some of his official whips defied a 3 line whip
If memory serves Corbyn has voted against his own party over 400 times.
I've not checked his voting record, by do understand that he has often been what some call rebel.
A man that maintains his own convictions. As I see it now, he was a small voice of reason in a noisy crowd. What's happening is that there are many more voicing what he always has, and the numbers are growing.
Some here are expressing concerns that he as ignored making. Even so, those making the same, or similar, noises aren't yet Corbyn supporters or fans ..... Opponents in fact.
It should dawn on them eventually that he's what they need. There's nobody else to look to.

It's neo liberalism or checks on it! The establishment aren't going to let go of the reins without a fight.
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RoofGardener
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I'm confused. What does this bill actually DO ? Is it a new law ?
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Feb 2 2017, 12:36 PM
I'm confused. What does this bill actually DO ? Is it a new law ?
Not yet but yes it would be new law albeit with a very narrow (but very significant) remit

I see that Diane Abbott didn't vote as is seeking to have people believe that despite being active in the house and on twitter she was ill. What a big fat racist !=== she is.

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Steve K
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Well we now have the supporting white paper on Brexit Strategy

Government Brexit White Paper published Feb 2nd

It adds little of substance to May's earlier speech and when you kick its tyres they wobble badly. For example it admits Financial Services is the most key area and yet the stated strategy could be summarised as "fingers crossed, she'll be right and we're sure the EU wouldn't use its negotiating advantage"

:facepalm:



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Tigger
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RoofGardener
Feb 2 2017, 12:36 PM
I'm confused. What does this bill actually DO ? Is it a new law ?
You are not the only one confused, it seems like a slightly uprated wishlist similar to the one trotted out a couple of months ago, ie "the best possible deal" "free trade" control borders blah, blah. It's for public consumption only I'd suggest.

But reality is never far away if you go looking, Lord Price who is the minister of state for international trade told German newspaper Die Welt yesterday that the government had already given up on the notion of cherry picking or getting special deals with the EU, in all probability we'll be out on our ear very quickly, this despite concerns from our finance, health, agricultural and manufacturing sectors, seems Osborne was talking sense after all.....
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papasmurf
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Just because MPs have voted for Brexit does not mean they support it.
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RoofGardener
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Does this mean that May now has authority from Parliament to activate Article 50, or does this bill have to be approved by the House of Lords first ?
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johnofgwent
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RoofGardener
Feb 2 2017, 12:36 PM
I'm confused. What does this bill actually DO ? Is it a new law ?
The Bill starts with these words

BILL TO Confer power on the Prime Minister to notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw .......

As pointed out here ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/24/brexit-ruling-supreme-court-judgment-full/

The Supreme Court decision was that the Prime Minister cannot use the same powers Blair (ab)used to make himself a millionaire warmonger and that it requires an Act of Parliament be passed in order for the Prime Minister to initiate the process. That means the bill MUST receive ROYAL ASSENT BEFORE Article 50 can be triggered and you can follow that process here

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2016-17/europeanunionnotificationofwithdrawal.html

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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Feb 2 2017, 02:53 PM
Does this mean that May now has authority from Parliament to activate Article 50, or does this bill have to be approved by the House of Lords first ?
yes and it has to be approved by the Commons again too. This is where all the amendments can start. Literally some wit can put forward an amendment that says "only after England have won the World Cup again " and the house might in theory pass it dooming Brexit to be approved but not happening any time soon

Won't happen but you get the point. The actual amendment I hope for is "only after the Electoral Commission confirms it has properly audited the Leave campaigns and found them to be legal"

Anyway here is the detail on where the Bill has got to and the hurdles it still has to pass

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2016-17/europeanunionnotificationofwithdrawal.html
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johnofgwent
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Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 09:53 PM
RoofGardener
Feb 2 2017, 02:53 PM
Does this mean that May now has authority from Parliament to activate Article 50, or does this bill have to be approved by the House of Lords first ?
yes and it has to be approved by the Commons again too. This is where all the amendments can start. Literally some wit can put forward an amendment that says "only after England have won the World Cup again " and the house might in theory pass it dooming Brexit to be approved but not happening any time soon

Won't happen but you get the point. The actual amendment I hope for is "only after the Electoral Commission confirms it has properly audited the Leave campaigns and found them to be legal"

Anyway here is the detail on where the Bill has got to and the hurdles it still has to pass

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2016-17/europeanunionnotificationofwithdrawal.html
I am not convinced of that SteveK

There was talk in the newspapers and on the radio of a "limited scope for amendments" of the "brexit bill" owing to supposed "parliamentary rules for amendments" which "experts" concluded would have denied the SNP the 50 amendments they proposed, entirely to filibuster the legislation of course. Regrettably, I have not been able to find a copy of those rules for myself in the limited time i had available so i cannot assess for myself the truth of that claim.

I am, however, heartened by the fact that the SNP got told to butt out suggesting that the so called "expert" opinion might indeed have a basis in fac, which frankly would be a first ...
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Steve K
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johnofgwent
Feb 4 2017, 09:31 AM
Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 09:53 PM
RoofGardener
Feb 2 2017, 02:53 PM
Does this mean that May now has authority from Parliament to activate Article 50, or does this bill have to be approved by the House of Lords first ?
yes and it has to be approved by the Commons again too. This is where all the amendments can start. Literally some wit can put forward an amendment that says "only after England have won the World Cup again " and the house might in theory pass it dooming Brexit to be approved but not happening any time soon

Won't happen but you get the point. The actual amendment I hope for is "only after the Electoral Commission confirms it has properly audited the Leave campaigns and found them to be legal"

Anyway here is the detail on where the Bill has got to and the hurdles it still has to pass

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2016-17/europeanunionnotificationofwithdrawal.html
I am not convinced of that SteveK

There was talk in the newspapers and on the radio of a "limited scope for amendments" of the "brexit bill" owing to supposed "parliamentary rules for amendments" which "experts" concluded would have denied the SNP the 50 amendments they proposed, entirely to filibuster the legislation of course. Regrettably, I have not been able to find a copy of those rules for myself in the limited time i had available so i cannot assess for myself the truth of that claim.

I am, however, heartened by the fact that the SNP got told to butt out suggesting that the so called "expert" opinion might indeed have a basis in fac, which frankly would be a first ...
Think it's this you're referring to

http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2017/january/brexit-limited-scope-for-amendments-to-governments-brexit-bill-says-expert/

"So, for example, an amendment seeking to guarantee a referendum on the final Brexit deal is likely to be regarded as going beyond the Bill's scope and so will not be selected for debate, whereas an amendment to consult the devolved governments before triggering article 50 could well be seen as in order."

As I read it, amendments dealing with events AFTER article 50 is triggered are not allowed and that seems right but putting in preconditions BEFORE the trigger are allowed. Hence my 'check the referendum campaigns were actually legal first' wish would be allowed for debate as would that 'only after you've put £350M a week extra into the NHS' one.

It will be fun and games but no one should be under any illusion. This bill will pass and give her the power that frankly should have been in the original referendum Bill.

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RoofGardener
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Thanks for the earlier link SteveK. Gosh... it's got a LOT of hurdles ahead of it, hasn't it ?

Will Theresa May still be able to activate article 50 in March, with all that stuff to wade through first ?
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johnofgwent
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Well RG I think next week is the key one, the committee stage is scheduled for tomorrow and the bill is scheduled for third reading and out to the lords on the 8th.

Pundits are now saying article 50 will be invoked at the END of march.

Any later and we will be electing MEPs for2020+
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