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| EU could disappear; warns Guy Verhofstadt | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 8 2017, 10:02 AM (1,037 Views) | |
| Mr Pat | Feb 8 2017, 10:02 AM Post #1 |
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We can only hope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I Edited by Mr Pat, Feb 8 2017, 10:04 AM.
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| papasmurf | Feb 8 2017, 10:05 AM Post #2 |
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There is certainly "trouble at mill" within the EU over major scam involving "posted workers." Suggested Google on Atlanco Rimec. This does put the principle of free movement of labour into question. |
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| Affa | Feb 8 2017, 10:23 AM Post #3 |
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We voted a year or two too early! |
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| papasmurf | Feb 8 2017, 10:28 AM Post #4 |
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I agree. |
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| Mr Pat | Feb 8 2017, 10:57 AM Post #5 |
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It was always going to take something like Brexit among things for these ideologues to see the error in their ways. |
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| Malum Unus | Feb 8 2017, 12:23 PM Post #6 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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I don't. Brexit was the essential pin, to stick in the arrogant bubble the EU leadership had created that no-one would ever leave the EU. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 8 2017, 12:44 PM Post #7 |
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The posted workers scam is only just coming to light with the realisation by many EU governments that they are losing a fortune in tax and their versions of national insurance, with hundreds of thousands of posted workers being left with no pension rights and no social insurance. Posted workers are also putting their own workers into unemployment. (This is a big problem for the UK as well.) |
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| The Buccaneer | Feb 8 2017, 01:33 PM Post #8 |
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And should have happened 10 years ago. |
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| Alberich | Feb 8 2017, 02:23 PM Post #9 |
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Alberich
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Verhofstadt has a point. And the pity is that the leaders of the EU cannot , or will not, accept the need for reform. If they had not been so intransigent with Cameron's attempts to win some modest crumbs from their high table, the referendum would probably have resulted in a firm "remain" vote. But no. They knew best. No-one would be stupid enough to leave the EU, so carry on as before. All will be well. Meanwhile, Greece has to repay a huge tranche of interest on past hand-outs in July, which she cannot meet except by being given another huge bung. Problem is that the IMF is increasingly unwilling to continue down that path, and with German elections due this year, and stiffening resistance of the German voter to their government sending yet more German cash into that bottomless bucket, it is by no means certain that this will happen. Italy continues to bump along the surface of a frozen lake of debt, with the ice thinning under her, day by day. Then there is the continuing refugee crisis, with Hungary continuing to break EU law with apparent impunity, and stiffening resistance from the rest of the EU towards yet more economic migration. Add to that the rise of far right candidates, particularly in France and Holland, and it is clear that all is not well in Euro-land. Reform might eventually be forced upon them by events, but it is hard to see the current crop of leaders doing other than continuing to fiddle while the embers of a large fire are sprouting flame all around them. Euro-land?? More La la-land these days. I still think that events will prove in the coming years that we did the right thing when we decided to leave that grandiose, unrealistic juggernaut. |
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| Steve K | Feb 8 2017, 06:53 PM Post #10 |
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Once and future cynic
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Probably and the evidence is they never realised how real the threat of Brexit was That said I'd bet the EU will outlive any current political leader. So many Brits just don't understand how strongly it is popularly supported outside the UK. |
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| Tigger | Feb 8 2017, 09:33 PM Post #11 |
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Ain't that the truth. As we'll eventually find out.......... |
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| Mr Pat | Feb 8 2017, 11:10 PM Post #12 |
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People thought and said the same about Britain retaining EU membership. As usual it's the silent majority you've got to watch out for. All this EU singing and bunting isn't indicative of majority support - like Remain wasn't to Brexit. At least Guy realise's that the EU has been the plausible making of it's own demise. |
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| Malum Unus | Feb 9 2017, 12:00 AM Post #13 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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I would consider such a statement to be highly suspect at best, dangerously misguided at worst... The problem with the EU is similar to some of the problems which got Trump elected and caused Brexit in the first place. When you ignore people's concerns, branding them with various labels, Racist, Xenophobe, Little Englander or whatever equivalent is being used in the EU, you create an ever increasing group of silent people who will only ever tell you what they really think of whatever is being imposed upon them at a vote. This is why the polls are increasingly wrong about how these things will go. If the various EU governments are at least as enamoured of the EU as most of ours is, I see no reason to think that they or their supporters haven't taken some form of steps to silence negative opinions. This isn't actually related to the EU, (it's related to Trump) but it's well worth watching (it's a show by Tom Walker playing a sadly fictitious British news reporter called Jonathan Pie) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs Edited by Malum Unus, Feb 9 2017, 12:05 AM.
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| Mr Pat | Feb 9 2017, 02:01 AM Post #14 |
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Saw that a while back and it is a fantastic rant that cuts to the bone. Edited by Mr Pat, Feb 9 2017, 02:10 AM.
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| Opinionater | Feb 9 2017, 08:51 AM Post #15 |
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Guy Verhofstadt and his federalist, one Europe one political union views are doing much of the damage to the EU. The EU must take responsibility for its own downfall, trying to turn a trading Union in to a political state Union is where it all started to go wrong. It's just now a matter of time now. The currency could be the first indicator of failure, not looking good at the moment. The French president election cold be the trigger. |
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| Steve K | Feb 9 2017, 11:33 AM Post #16 |
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Once and future cynic
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well which of you three is going to put a specific date to your doom predictions for the EU You might want to recall all those predictions of the death of the Euro by Christmas 2012, 2013, 2014 etc etc. That all proved to be wide of the mark. Have some awkward reading from Reuters: Link
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| Affa | Feb 9 2017, 12:09 PM Post #17 |
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You and I have made this call several times leading up to the June referendum. The remaining members will know from the UK example that leaving is a road to ruin. The millions that like you and I that do not like or want what the EU has become will nevertheless realise that what is required is reform not rejection. The EU idea is stronger now because of how we voted. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 9 2017, 12:22 PM Post #18 |
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Unless Le Pen gets elected president. |
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| Affa | Feb 9 2017, 12:49 PM Post #19 |
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If Penn gets elected she will have to campaign for Reform of the EU, and won't offer a Frexit as she would probably lose in a referendum. |
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| Alberich | Feb 9 2017, 01:11 PM Post #20 |
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Alberich
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But you have to admit; the current crop of EU leaders could teach Nero a thing or two about violin playing. |
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| Malum Unus | Feb 10 2017, 03:26 AM Post #21 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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| Mr Pat | Feb 10 2017, 04:23 AM Post #22 |
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Why do you become so petty and ask for specific dates of collapse? You need to ask Guy whatshisnmame that, as the discussion of topic was made from his remarks. And as for polls, well you should have learned to take them with a bucket of salt by now.
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| Steve K | Feb 10 2017, 11:48 AM Post #23 |
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Once and future cynic
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So big statements until asked for some specifics and then it all gets rather childish Summary of posts 12-15 and 21-22: "The EU is definitely doomed. You ask"when"? Well that's unfair, have some diversionary trash to put you off." Is it too much to ask you to put a small part of your reputations where your mouths are? When are you saying this supposed doom will be, this year, this decade, this century, Millennium? |
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| Alberich | Feb 10 2017, 01:49 PM Post #24 |
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Alberich
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A bit of a silly question, Steve. Nobody can predict the future to the extent that you demand, but I refer you back to my posting No.9. If, for example, if Greece is forced out of the euro; which is more than likely. If Italy's banking system implodes. If German voters demand a stop to the constant drain on their tax money being sent to impoverished southern neighbours. If the present move towards the right accelerates, and some of the more extreme candidates get elected. If other member states then hold exit referendums. If no solution is found to the massive and ongoing immigration tsunami from Africa and the MIddle east. And finally, if the current crop of EU leaders continue to deny the evidence of their own eyes, and continue to dismioss the existence of patriotism amongst its member states......all of which are not impossible to envisage. All is not well in Euroland. Brexit will hit them as hard, and probably harder, than it will us. And if others see the UK thrive after leaving the E.U......The euro is built on flimsy foundations, and is really being kept afloat because it suits the German economy, and because problems are being dealt with by simply printing more cash; which as a long term solution doesn't have much going for it. A can may only be kicked down the road for so long, until the can itself disintegrates. As to when, exactly? Who can say. But only a fool ignores large cracks running up the brickwork of his home. |
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| Steve K | Feb 10 2017, 02:07 PM Post #25 |
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Once and future cynic
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Look again at the posts 12-15 and 21-22 I referred to. No one denies that all is not wonderful in the EU and EZ. But if people are going to make or endorse verbose rebuttals of my post 10 suggestion it'll outlive any current political leader, then it's fair to ask how long they do think it'll last then To post the trash of posts 21 and 22 in response to that fair question strongly suggests they believe I'm right but can't bring themselves to admit it. |
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| johnofgwent | Feb 10 2017, 10:26 PM Post #26 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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I think the EU will achieve its dream of perpetual strife free harmony about ten minutes after Greece repays its debts And I think the EU will implode about half an hour after the troika finally understand they're just pissing petrol onto a bonfire and leave the birthplace of democracy to its ignoble end And the reason I for one cannot give you a firm date as to when the EU will implode on itself is that every time the greeks look as though they are FINALLY going ot go under, some Euro-Wanker hands them another sack of money to burn, knowing that if they do not, then it will be their heads on the spike as the whole house of cards comes down |
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| Tigger | Feb 10 2017, 10:53 PM Post #27 |
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The Greeks should be booted out, they are still not enforcing proper taxation, strange they won't give up the euro though........ |
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| johnofgwent | Feb 10 2017, 11:14 PM Post #28 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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maybe they should, certainly they should not have been allowed in at all, but that does not change the fact it is not possible to give a firm estimate of the date for the demise of the eurozone and / or the eu until a firm date has been passed for the expulsion of greece from the eurozone and the expulsion has been carried out. |
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| Malum Unus | Feb 10 2017, 11:33 PM Post #29 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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^What he said! |
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| Rich | Feb 11 2017, 12:25 AM Post #30 |
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I think that the title of the thread SHOULD have been...the EU could disappear...up it's own arse.
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| Mr Pat | Feb 11 2017, 12:42 AM Post #31 |
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Yes, but you will need to give a specific date of when it will disappear up it's own arse.
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| Rich | Feb 11 2017, 12:49 AM Post #32 |
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The next three elections in Europe will decide that and the last one is in November, We have waited for over 40 years for common sense as opposed to common market to prevail, a few more months is no big deal.
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| Mr Pat | Feb 11 2017, 03:20 AM Post #33 |
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/765583/bbc-brexit-collapse-european-union-martin-schulz-marine-le-pen-twitter Cue, the usual rant of shooting the messenger rather than the message. Schulz now, as well as Guy whatshisname. Here's the BBC doco: After Brexit: the battle for Europe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMQXXCiEQnA Worth watching, it's quite damning of the EU and Euro. Enjoy! Edited by Mr Pat, Feb 11 2017, 05:07 AM.
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| johnofgwent | Feb 11 2017, 10:48 AM Post #34 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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I'll tell you what i DID like watching ... Right at the beginning of the interview with the man on the motorbike from the Five Star Movement, she asks if they can do the interview in English, and he says he'll do it do it in Italian. This achieves two really important things. First, it proves to the Italians that we do have people who speak their language. And I say that as one who has lost count of the number of times some asshole ignorant dickhead cheese eating surrender monkey frog thinks that because my children speak to me in english, I can't speak French. But probably more important than that, he gets to prove that in his country, his language and his culture comes first. And surprisingly, I found that my head filters his italian through my french in built translation circuits and I understood somewhere betweeen a quarter and a half of what he said without the subtitles. And I understood about half of what Grillo said too, But then he was delivering a far simpler message Or maybe that's because I spent about a year in Gatwick working alongside two italians ... |
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| johnofgwent | Feb 11 2017, 11:00 AM Post #35 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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The other thing I notice now, watching that video. The BBC go into europe and find a whole load of articulate, seemingly educated, individuals all critical of the european union. How come they could not find one in the run up to our referendum ? |
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| Rich | Feb 11 2017, 11:03 AM Post #36 |
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I think you will find that it is known as a liberal left wing bias, perhaps the BBC is now waking up to what the man in the street has been saying for donkey's years? Humble pie? |
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| Mr Pat | Feb 11 2017, 11:45 AM Post #37 |
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I think that is the shock of it. The BBC actually scratching the surface and critically covering this with belated effect. Moreover, you'd think, judging by the remainers perception anyway that those who oppose the EU are knuckle dragging idiots, not the articulate, educated folk like you saw in that doco. Shame on them for the smear fears they've promulgated. |
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| Affa | Feb 11 2017, 12:04 PM Post #38 |
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I only met one 'remainer' and she was a middle class granny. Everyone was OUT, no fence sitters ........ and I don't spend my time with knuckleheads. That sort of campaigning did the remainers lots of harm ...... calling them racists, bigots, idiots, or whatever was as foolish ab the £350m NHS money. As an example of how politicians and the press operate to distort public opinion - instead of telling the truth it can't be beat. It is however how the State works ........ get rid of it! It is the Enemy Within. Edited by Affa, Feb 11 2017, 12:10 PM.
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| Tigger | Feb 11 2017, 12:14 PM Post #39 |
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I'm afraid to say a great many are knuckle dragging idiots, and this goes much higher up than you might think, Sir Ivan Rogers the former British bigwig in Brussels expressed frustration at the lack of knowledge in the current government on how the EU functions, he singled out Jonstone and Davis in particular who despite being briefed on how things operate still did not understand how to approach the negotiations, this culminated in both these idiots insisting we'd seek bi lateral deals with individual EU nations! They are either knuckle dragging idiots or are simply not up to the job in hand, and we don't want a glorious English failure do we? |
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| Mr Pat | Feb 11 2017, 01:49 PM Post #40 |
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Well, after watching Katya Adler hunt down Guy whatshisname's office in that warren of an EU building, for her to be told he's in room 5.11.C or whatever the number it was on level 5 of the building. Then not finding him there because he was on floor level 5 and a half! I'm not surprised nobody fully understands how the EU works, the EU doesn't even know how it works FFS! |
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you should have learned to take them with a bucket of salt by now.

2:16 PM Jul 11