Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Greece defies creditors over more cuts as economy shrinks unexpectedly
Topic Started: Feb 15 2017, 09:51 AM (330 Views)
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/14/greece-defies-creditors-over-more-cuts-as-economy-shrinks-unexpectedly

Dear oh dear. Not happy with the humiliating terms they forced the Greek government to agree to in return for bailouts, international creditors are now demanding even more concessions above and beyond what the Greek government has agreed to in return for their concluding a compliance review.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Time to boot Greece out of the EU and Euro, it deserves it. A nation that thinks it can live off the backs of others.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
I find this bit worrying,
Quote:
 

...Amidst the uncertainty the real economy has been put on hold with non-performing bank loans and private debt ballooning. This week the head of the Greek public power corporation, DEH, said lack of liquidity was such that the body was on the verge of bankruptcy.

So... people are just borrowing money, and not paying it back, or paying their bills ?
How long can THAT last for ?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Malum Unus
Member Avatar
Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
[ *  *  * ]
You know, I never thought to ask this before but... Is there a mechanism for booting a country out of the EU?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Malum Unus
Feb 15 2017, 01:07 PM
You know, I never thought to ask this before but... Is there a mechanism for booting a country out of the EU?
Yes, well they can be indefinitely suspended which is pretty much the same thing



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Could be a good opportunity for Trump...dollar...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Alberich
Member Avatar
Alberich
[ *  *  * ]
It's been on the cards for years. Greece should never have been admitted into the euro zone. Her economy was a basket case even then, but such was the drive to have an inclusive euro currency for all member states, the gauleiters turned a blind eye to that fact, and accepted the doctored evidence of financial probity that the Greeks cobbled together, with the help of compliant banks. But even now, I still think that the EU will find some way to keep Greece afloat...again....and again. At the moment, they need a large infusion of cash simply to enable them to repay previous handouts, which they must do in July this year. It is the economics of the mad-house.

Funnily enough, if the Greeks DID leave, or were forced out, a devalued Drachma might be the way towards salvation.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]

Being in the euro is not why Greece has ended up Bankrupt.
Leaving the euro is not a way to save itself.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
I think Greece was admitted to the EEC for honourable reasons; they wanted to avoid catastrophic political instability following the rule of the Generals. And that pretty much worked.

Unfortunately, everybody was so busy celebrating they forgot to pay their tax for the next 40 years.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Alberich
Member Avatar
Alberich
[ *  *  * ]
Affa
Feb 15 2017, 04:45 PM
Being in the euro is not why Greece has ended up Bankrupt.
Leaving the euro is not a way to save itself.
Probably. But being IN the euro meant that the traditional ways a nation combats an economic crisis ( a devaluation, or an adjustment of bank rates) was not open to them. They were hamstrung by the "one size fits all" euro; except that it doesn't, and it never can. And unless they DO leave the euro, then nothing is going to change much. There isn't much more slack for the Greeks to cut. It is a mess, and I don't see any way out for them. They are now welfare addicts.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Affa
Feb 15 2017, 04:45 PM
Being in the euro is not why Greece has ended up Bankrupt.
Leaving the euro is not a way to save itself.
Europhobes will be horrified at this statement, but then they probably don't realise that Greece has gone bankrupt many times, the big ones, not including common or garden defaults, were in 1834 (the Greek state as it is today only came into being in 1827!) 1893, 1932, 1945-51 and 1974.

In every case they borrowed lots of money and then said we've spent it all!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Feb 15 2017, 06:38 PM
I think Greece was admitted to the EEC for honourable reasons; they wanted to avoid catastrophic political instability following the rule of the Generals. And that pretty much worked.

Unfortunately, everybody was so busy celebrating they forgot to pay their tax for the next 40 years.
We have a winner!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Feb 15 2017, 09:20 PM
Affa
Feb 15 2017, 04:45 PM
Being in the euro is not why Greece has ended up Bankrupt.
Leaving the euro is not a way to save itself.
Europhobes will be horrified at this statement, but then they probably don't realise that Greece has gone bankrupt many times, the big ones, not including common or garden defaults, were in 1834 (the Greek state as it is today only came into being in 1827!) 1893, 1932, 1945-51 and 1974.

In every case they borrowed lots of money and then said we've spent it all!
Here’s The Truth About Greece That Many Germans Won’t Like To Hear

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/greece-germany-bankruptcy-_n_7707620.html

Despite Losing Tens Of Billions Of Euros, Germany Is Making A Profit Out Of The Greek Crisis

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/08/11/despite-losing-tens-of-billions-of-e-germany-is-making-a-profit-out-of-the-greek-crisis/#50cc67f82b4a

Germany government gained from Greek crisis - IWH study

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33845836

Highly recommend reading.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
OH MY GOD!  :o

What on earth is going on!!!!! A country puts money into another nation and not only expects to get it's money back one day as the economy grows but might want to turn a profit!!!!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Feb 15 2017, 10:40 AM
Time to boot Greece out of the EU and Euro, it deserves it. A nation that thinks it can live off the backs of others.
Well that's early half of all EU members then.

Maybe if the EU kicked out all net-recipients the 2nd or 3rd largest net-contributor would not have voted to leave.

All The Best
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Feb 16 2017, 10:19 PM
OH MY GOD!  :o

What on earth is going on!!!!! A country puts money into another nation and not only expects to get it's money back one day as the economy grows but might want to turn a profit!!!!

Because turning a profit is more important than people having to give up their children because they can't afford to raise them.

Good to see you have your priorities right.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Feb 17 2017, 10:12 AM
Tigger
Feb 16 2017, 10:19 PM
OH MY GOD!  :o

What on earth is going on!!!!! A country puts money into another nation and not only expects to get it's money back one day as the economy grows but might want to turn a profit!!!!

Because turning a profit is more important than people having to give up their children because they can't afford to raise them.

Good to see you have your priorities right.
Actually it's a case of Greek politicians having their Mercedes, rich Greeks avoiding paying tax and lazy Greeks that retired at 50 to keep their fat pensions seems more important to them

The solution for Greece is simple: shut it with the whining and collectively live within your means



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Feb 17 2017, 10:12 AM
Tigger
Feb 16 2017, 10:19 PM
OH MY GOD!  :o

What on earth is going on!!!!! A country puts money into another nation and not only expects to get it's money back one day as the economy grows but might want to turn a profit!!!!

Because turning a profit is more important than people having to give up their children because they can't afford to raise them.

Good to see you have your priorities right.
Sorry I've mislaid my violin, however most responsible parents would put their kids first instead of voting for easy credit and living off the backs of other nations, and it's not as if the Greeks are uneducated natives living in mud huts is it?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Feb 17 2017, 01:09 PM
Cymru
Feb 17 2017, 10:12 AM
Tigger
Feb 16 2017, 10:19 PM
OH MY GOD!  :o

What on earth is going on!!!!! A country puts money into another nation and not only expects to get it's money back one day as the economy grows but might want to turn a profit!!!!

Because turning a profit is more important than people having to give up their children because they can't afford to raise them.

Good to see you have your priorities right.
Sorry I've mislaid my violin, however most responsible parents would put their kids first instead of voting for easy credit and living off the backs of other nations, and it's not as if the Greeks are uneducated natives living in mud huts is it?
Yes that really works doesn't it because as I think you may have said many times in the UK selfish boomers continue to vote to feather their own beds whilst shafting the young (you would think none of them had children though it is more likely a case of "bad stuff will never happen to us" mindset).

Then we have brexit.

The idea that voters have access to complete and unbiased information with which to make informed voting decisions is a fantasy. Basically, and this is going to come as a massive surprise to you i am sure, the Greek people were lied to by their politicians and voted on that basis. Won't be the first time it happens wont be the last and as i rarely tire of pointing out it will be the weak and vulnerable of greek society who bear the brunt of the situation.

As some one pointed out earlier the real criminals of the piece here are the greeks who fudge the euro entrance criteria and the Eurocrats whose job it was to check these fudged figures.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Feb 17 2017, 01:09 PM
Cymru
Feb 17 2017, 10:12 AM
Tigger
Feb 16 2017, 10:19 PM
OH MY GOD!  :o

What on earth is going on!!!!! A country puts money into another nation and not only expects to get it's money back one day as the economy grows but might want to turn a profit!!!!

Because turning a profit is more important than people having to give up their children because they can't afford to raise them.

Good to see you have your priorities right.
Sorry I've mislaid my violin, however most responsible parents would put their kids first instead of voting for easy credit and living off the backs of other nations, and it's not as if the Greeks are uneducated natives living in mud huts is it?
The EuroZone Profiteers

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=15875

Quote:
 
Over the last two decades, banks across Europe have come under increasing pressure to compete internationally - from bureaucrats like Mario Monti, the former by European Union Competition Commissioner, who mistakenly believed that greater efficiency would be the result. As Germany withdrew state guarantees for regional banks and France privatized nationalized banks, these banks took advantage of their high credit ratings to flock to countries on the periphery of the EuroZone with cheap and easy loans after the launch of the single currency.

Countries like Greece, Ireland and Spain who had struggled with high interest rates and unemployment for decades, jumped at this opportunity. The ensuing cash influx created an economic bubble characterized by a boom in risky public and private sector projects.

When borrowing countries were unable to pay back their debts, international lenders put the blame for the economic crisis on lazy workers, bloated social services, and unwise borrowings by foolish governments. In return for financial support, these lenders required that the borrowers impose ‘austerity’ which cut social-spending “luxuries” such as school books and subsidized health care in order to generate savings to pay off the loans.


But, but... their lazy!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
ACH1967
Feb 17 2017, 03:29 PM


The idea that voters have access to complete and unbiased information with which to make informed voting decisions is a fantasy. Basically, and this is going to come as a massive surprise to you i am sure, the Greek people were lied to by their politicians and voted on that basis. Won't be the first time it happens wont be the last and as i rarely tire of pointing out it will be the weak and vulnerable of greek society who bear the brunt of the situation.
The Greek people are not gullible victims here, lets get that out of the way first up, many Greeks will have lived through previous financial meltdowns that happened long before the nation hitched a ride with the EU, they are also rather good at not paying their taxes and of course borrowing money that they hope they won't have to pay back, in the past it was a shrug of the shoulders and vote in someone who will promise you what you'd like not what you need.

They need to either grow up or sod off............
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Feb 17 2017, 06:05 PM


But, but... their lazy!
Will you be retiring at 55 on a better pension than most in Western Europe? A pension you never really earned? How about taking out loans you have no intention of ever paying back?

LAZY! :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Europe · Next Topic »
Add Reply