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The Euro, Could It Fail?; merged with Merkel says there is a problem with the value of the euro
Topic Started: Feb 13 2017, 09:31 PM (1,361 Views)
Opinionater
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I think it's under pressure and there is a risk of it going into free fall.

Why you may ask, well let's take a look at the problems it is facing.

Greece, that in itself is a big risk, more bail out loans, no hair cut its just not going to work.
The only way out, well two ways, get them out of the Euro or give them a major haircut. They are not going to do any of the above.

BREXIT, whilst we are not In the Euro Zone leaving the EU will impact on the stability of the Euro as fears of others leaving add to the problem.

What do you think?

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Rich
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Oddball
Mar 1 2017, 08:57 AM
gansao
Feb 26 2017, 11:12 PM
Tigger
Feb 26 2017, 11:10 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Sounds like a plan....  >:D
Nah - that one has been tried, and I believe it sort of failed.
Or, it could be argued that those that started the war failed in that respect but came out smiling with regard to a successful 21st century country.
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The Buccaneer
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Rich
Mar 1 2017, 09:10 AM
Oddball
Mar 1 2017, 08:57 AM
gansao
Feb 26 2017, 11:12 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Nah - that one has been tried, and I believe it sort of failed.
Or, it could be argued that those that started the war failed in that respect but came out smiling with regard to a successful 21st century country.


That may be because of the facts that:

a) They hardly paid any reparation for their warmongering

b) They benefitted under the Marshall plan, as did other European countries (and Japan), except GB !

We paid a very heavy price for defending freedom, including having a war debt hanging over our heads until it was finally paid off in 2006.

Is it any wonder that GB still struggled for years after WW2 ?
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Steve K
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The Buccaneer
Mar 1 2017, 04:48 PM
Rich
Mar 1 2017, 09:10 AM
Oddball
Mar 1 2017, 08:57 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Or, it could be argued that those that started the war failed in that respect but came out smiling with regard to a successful 21st century country.


That may be because of the facts that:

a) They hardly paid any reparation for their warmongering

b) They benefitted under the Marshall plan, as did other European countries (and Japan), except GB !

We paid a very heavy price for defending freedom, including having a war debt hanging over our heads until it was finally paid off in 2006.

Is it any wonder that GB still struggled for years after WW2 ?
 ::) Completely false

The UK was the biggest recipient of Marshall aid. Have a read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

Germany, France and Italy spent their share on reconstruction, we spent ours on consumption
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Rich
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The Buccaneer
Mar 1 2017, 04:48 PM
Rich
Mar 1 2017, 09:10 AM
Oddball
Mar 1 2017, 08:57 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Or, it could be argued that those that started the war failed in that respect but came out smiling with regard to a successful 21st century country.


That may be because of the facts that:

a) They hardly paid any reparation for their warmongering

b) They benefitted under the Marshall plan, as did other European countries (and Japan), except GB !

We paid a very heavy price for defending freedom, including having a war debt hanging over our heads until it was finally paid off in 2006.

Is it any wonder that GB still struggled for years after WW2 ?
I certainly am not denying the facts as you point them out, I was merely saying that although Nazi Germany were the losing side they are laughing up their sleeves to this day and they are trying to impose German hegemony over Europe by Financial means and they do not like because once again the UK is the fly in the ointment. :)
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Steve K
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Rich
Mar 1 2017, 06:58 PM
I certainly am not denying the facts as you point them out, I was merely saying that although Nazi Germany were the losing side they are laughing up their sleeves to this day and they are trying to impose German hegemony over Europe by Financial means and they do not like because once again the UK is the fly in the ointment. :)
Well first of all most of those that constituted Nazi Germany are very much not laughing now and many of them stopped laughing way before you and I were born as they realised they would soon end their shameful existence swinging from a rope

As for the wider Germany it's important to realise that almost immediately after the formation of Germany in the 19th century they have been head and shoulders above the rest of Europe in underlying economic power through the geographical factors that give them easy access to high value markets.

Being an island state as we are, has advantages and disadvantages
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Rich
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Steve K
Mar 1 2017, 07:10 PM
Rich
Mar 1 2017, 06:58 PM
I certainly am not denying the facts as you point them out, I was merely saying that although Nazi Germany were the losing side they are laughing up their sleeves to this day and they are trying to impose German hegemony over Europe by Financial means and they do not like because once again the UK is the fly in the ointment. :)
Well first of all most of those that constituted Nazi Germany are very much not laughing now and many of them stopped laughing way before you and I were born as they realised they would soon end their shameful existence swinging from a rope

As for the wider Germany it's important to realise that almost immediately after the formation of Germany in the 19th century they have been head and shoulders above the rest of Europe in underlying economic power through the geographical factors that give them easy access to high value markets.

Being an island state as we are, has advantages and disadvantages
Well, we used to have one very obvious advantage and that was control of our borders, hopefully that will be returned, however, the Present day very successful Germany has become as it is on the back of the aid received after capitulation in WW11 as the country was able to race ahead economically and production wise and fair play to them, they took full advantage of that and have not looked back since.
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Steve K
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Rich
Mar 1 2017, 07:23 PM
Steve K
Mar 1 2017, 07:10 PM
Rich
Mar 1 2017, 06:58 PM
I certainly am not denying the facts as you point them out, I was merely saying that although Nazi Germany were the losing side they are laughing up their sleeves to this day and they are trying to impose German hegemony over Europe by Financial means and they do not like because once again the UK is the fly in the ointment. :)
Well first of all most of those that constituted Nazi Germany are very much not laughing now and many of them stopped laughing way before you and I were born as they realised they would soon end their shameful existence swinging from a rope

As for the wider Germany it's important to realise that almost immediately after the formation of Germany in the 19th century they have been head and shoulders above the rest of Europe in underlying economic power through the geographical factors that give them easy access to high value markets.

Being an island state as we are, has advantages and disadvantages
Well, we used to have one very obvious advantage and that was control of our borders, hopefully that will be returned, however, the Present day very successful Germany has become as it is on the back of the aid received after capitulation in WW11 as the country was able to race ahead economically and production wise and fair play to them, they took full advantage of that and have not looked back since.
oh for goodness sake Rich. That was a load of utter bollocks you were applauding, a totally false story spread by dyed in the wool Leavers over the years and shredded yet again a few post above.

We got the biggest share of post WW2 aid, FACT
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Tigger
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Rich
Mar 1 2017, 06:58 PM
I certainly am not denying the facts as you point them out, I was merely saying that although Nazi Germany were the losing side they are laughing up their sleeves to this day and they are trying to impose German hegemony over Europe by Financial means and they do not like because once again the UK is the fly in the ointment. :)
The thing is we could and should have been No 1 in Europe.

But we could not ley go of the past and fucked it up........
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Tigger
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Rich
Mar 1 2017, 07:23 PM
Well, we used to have one very obvious advantage and that was control of our borders, hopefully that will be returned, however, the Present day very successful Germany has become as it is on the back of the aid received after capitulation in WW11 as the country was able to race ahead economically and production wise and fair play to them, they took full advantage of that and have not looked back since.


^ Brexit myth No 6.

Were you one of those cheering on the massive burden West Germany got taking on the economic basket case East Germany? Were you also one of those predicting the place was finished?

Look what a high tax socialist unification did, Germans work hard and rarely blame anyone else for domestic problems............
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The Buccaneer
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Steve K
Mar 1 2017, 06:20 PM
The Buccaneer
Mar 1 2017, 04:48 PM
Rich
Mar 1 2017, 09:10 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


That may be because of the facts that:

a) They hardly paid any reparation for their warmongering

b) They benefitted under the Marshall plan, as did other European countries (and Japan), except GB !

We paid a very heavy price for defending freedom, including having a war debt hanging over our heads until it was finally paid off in 2006.

Is it any wonder that GB still struggled for years after WW2 ?
 ::) Completely false

The UK was the biggest recipient of Marshall aid. Have a read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

Germany, France and Italy spent their share on reconstruction, we spent ours on consumption

Fascinating read, and an eye-opening one at that. Why am I left wondering how it was that a Labour government failed to modernise our road, rail and manufacturing industries and wasted the aid money on inconsequentials ?
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Tigger
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The Buccaneer
Mar 5 2017, 12:02 AM

Fascinating read, and an eye-opening one at that. Why am I left wondering how it was that a Labour government failed to modernise our road, rail and manufacturing industries and wasted the aid money on inconsequentials ?
:facepalm:

Obviously you didn't read it properly then.

The post war Labour government actually did modernise and invest, Google the reality.I remeber pulling RJD up on this several times as his memory seemed to have failed him

It did modernised and updated our industries and we had a major export drive that created millions of jobs, we even had better growth than the US and industrial productivity soared, and do you know why Labour got booted out?

Because people had had enough of austerity! :)
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The Buccaneer
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And right on cue, comes this admission from a rabid EU supporter about the frailty of the €........


Quote:
 
“The same is happening with the euro, so we have a single currency fortunately but let’s be honest we still don’t have a government, a treasury, a common management of the debt and so on that is necessary behind this currency.”


Extracted from here :

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/776068/European-Union-EU-Brexit-negotiator-Guy-Verhofstadt-destroys-Brussels-epic-rant
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Steve K
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Guy Verhofstadt what a prat :facepalm: . Between him and that slug Juncker quite possibly Leave's biggest assets to get Brexit. Very isolated in their views but worryingly one was effectively able to appoint the other to be the EU negotiator Davis has to deal with.

But with Juncker already admitting he's past his use by date we have to hope the other nations get rid of him too. Penny for the Guy?
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The Buccaneer
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Steve K
Mar 7 2017, 06:05 PM
Guy Verhofstadt what a prat :facepalm: . Between him and that slug Juncker quite possibly Leave's biggest assets to get Brexit. Very isolated in their views but worryingly one was effectively able to appoint the other to be the EU negotiator Davis has to deal with.

But with Juncker already admitting he's past his use by date we have to hope the other nations get rid of him too. Penny for the Guy?

Seems to me that unless the EU negotiators adopt pragmatism as a basic tenet, we'd be wasting our time negotiating so we may as well at that point just walk and get out immediately. I see no point dragging out spiteful and pointless 'negotiations' if their idea is to 'punish' us, because we only need remind them that they owe us our share of the EU assets (properties etc) which has been estimated at about £150Bn, and we'll demand that's repaid when we leave.
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Tigger
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Steve K
Mar 7 2017, 06:05 PM
Guy Verhofstadt what a prat :facepalm: . Between him and that slug Juncker quite possibly Leave's biggest assets to get Brexit. Very isolated in their views but worryingly one was effectively able to appoint the other to be the EU negotiator Davis has to deal with.

But with Juncker already admitting he's past his use by date we have to hope the other nations get rid of him too. Penny for the Guy?
These two are the attack dogs, those who will be doing the negotiating on behalf of the EU will be the real problem for us, probably on account of the fact they won't be reading the pre prepared scripts in our various newspapers.........
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The Buccaneer
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Tigger
Mar 7 2017, 09:38 PM
Steve K
Mar 7 2017, 06:05 PM
Guy Verhofstadt what a prat :facepalm: . Between him and that slug Juncker quite possibly Leave's biggest assets to get Brexit. Very isolated in their views but worryingly one was effectively able to appoint the other to be the EU negotiator Davis has to deal with.

But with Juncker already admitting he's past his use by date we have to hope the other nations get rid of him too. Penny for the Guy?
These two are the attack dogs, those who will be doing the negotiating on behalf of the EU will be the real problem for us, probably on account of the fact they won't be reading the pre prepared scripts in our various newspapers.........

Why should we care, and how many times do you need reminding that WE will be holding a very strong hand in these 'negotiations', right to the point where we tell them that if we don't get a reasonably acceptable deal, we'll simply leave without one.

What are they gonna do, cut their own throats and stop wanting to sell stuff to us ?

I guess you don't have much/any experience of negotiation given your craven sounding posts.
Edited by The Buccaneer, Mar 8 2017, 12:05 AM.
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Affa
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The Buccaneer
Mar 7 2017, 02:11 PM
And right on cue, comes this admission from a rabid EU supporter about the frailty of the €........


Quote:
 
“The same is happening with the euro, so we have a single currency fortunately but let’s be honest we still don’t have a government, a treasury, a common management of the debt and so on that is necessary behind this currency.”


Extracted from here :

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/776068/European-Union-EU-Brexit-negotiator-Guy-Verhofstadt-destroys-Brussels-epic-rant

My issue with this is the idea that Federalism is "necessary" for a common currency to work.
Certainly there has to be ab accord, a facility for individual nations to be involved in the management (of debt etc) and the stability of the Bank behind it, but Federalism isn't the only way to achieve it.

One reason the UK did not sign up is because our own administration were reluctant to be part of a caucus making joint decisions on economic financial matters. Where there is consent through agreement there will be a shared interest. The UK Establishment will not give up independence easily - which could change when the Mighty dollar and US interest rears its head and gains the ears of that same UK Establishment.
"What's in it for us"?



Edited by Affa, Mar 8 2017, 01:30 PM.
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The Buccaneer
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Affa
Mar 8 2017, 01:29 PM
The Buccaneer
Mar 7 2017, 02:11 PM
And right on cue, comes this admission from a rabid EU supporter about the frailty of the €........


Quote:
 
“The same is happening with the euro, so we have a single currency fortunately but let’s be honest we still don’t have a government, a treasury, a common management of the debt and so on that is necessary behind this currency.”


Extracted from here :

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/776068/European-Union-EU-Brexit-negotiator-Guy-Verhofstadt-destroys-Brussels-epic-rant

My issue with this is the idea that Federalism is "necessary" for a common currency to work.
Certainly there has to be ab accord, a facility for individual nations to be involved in the management (of debt etc) and the stability of the Bank behind it, but Federalism isn't the only way to achieve it.

One reason the UK did not sign up is because our own administration were reluctant to be part of a caucus making joint decisions on economic financial matters. Where there is consent through agreement there will be a shared interest. The UK Establishment will not give up independence easily - which could change when the Mighty dollar and US interest rears its head and gains the ears of that same UK Establishment.
"What's in it for us"?




I don't think you quite grasp what is meant by the word 'federalism'. In order to support a currency it is essential to have a 'lender of last resort' to guarantee it, at the moment is doesn't have one. Therefore, in their 'wisdom', Juncker and Verhofstadt are suggesting that the 'major' economies of the EU at least, become a nucleus or 'federation' with common budgetary, tax and legal rules which would enable 'it' to become that LOLR.

Frankly, I cannot see how this would work, even allowing for one of their other 'wheezes' (from the 5 alternatives) which would be a '2 stage EU'. Would there have to be 2 versions of the € or would they have to either create another euro currency for the slow laners, or would they have to resort to reprising their old currencies, at least until they complied with whatever rules would allow them back into the 'fast lane' once more ?

Yeah, its a mess alright,, and given the state the EU is currently in, it seems to me that this would only serve to worsen things considerably.
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Affa
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The ECB is a 'LOLR'!
Lender of Last Resort .......... it is why it exists!

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Tigger
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The Buccaneer
Mar 8 2017, 12:04 AM

Why should we care, and how many times do you need reminding that WE will be holding a very strong hand in these 'negotiations', right to the point where we tell them that if we don't get a reasonably acceptable deal, we'll simply leave without one.



FFS! !jk!

This is the tactic of shooting yourself in the head in the hope the ricochet wings your opposite number! ;D

Those who pay attention will be aware of just how much the UK relies on foreign investment to keep several areas of the economy afloat, yet another carmaker, Toyota this time, is holding back on investment due to concerns over getting a viable deal from the EU, probably in case political idiots "simply leave without one."

Understand this, we lose access to the biggest fre market in the World and that means we become a less attractive place for businesses that make things or sell services.
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Tigger
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Affa
Mar 8 2017, 01:29 PM


One reason the UK did not sign up is because our own administration were reluctant to be part of a caucus making joint decisions on economic financial matters. Where there is consent through agreement there will be a shared interest. The UK Establishment will not give up independence easily - which could change when the Mighty dollar and US interest rears its head and gains the ears of that same UK Establishment.
"What's in it for us"?



There is a strong element in the Tory party that cannot tolerate the thought that nations like France and Germany are our equals, let alone lesser entities such as say Portugal or Ireland, in their minds there is still yearning for Empire and a glorious past, having to put up with these nations was becoming insufferable for them.

The ball is now firmly in the Establishments court and I don't think they are up to it, America to the rescue again? Not this time..........
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Steve K
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Affa
Mar 8 2017, 05:04 PM
The ECB is a 'LOLR'!
Lender of Last Resort .......... it is why it exists!

Exactly

And the ECB is backed by binding commitments by the € using nations

A Federal state is but one way of making a single currency work. The Leavers have continually pushed the lie that it is the only way. They seemingly need to restart doing this as with every day of Brexit bad news[1] they have to push this false "look what we saved you from" line.

No one needed saving from the non existent USofE threat any more than they need saving from the just as fictional Martians.
[1] as the £ sags and the world realises we have a very weak trading prospect post 2018
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Affa
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Steve K
Mar 8 2017, 08:44 PM
Affa
Mar 8 2017, 05:04 PM
The ECB is a 'LOLR'!
Lender of Last Resort .......... it is why it exists!

Exactly

And the ECB is backed by binding commitments by the € using nations

A Federal state is but one way of making a single currency work. The Leavers have continually pushed the lie that it is the only way. They seemingly need to restart doing this as with every day of Brexit bad news[1] they have to push this false "look what we saved you from" line.

No one needed saving from the non existent USofE threat any more than they need saving from the just as fictional Martians.

Let's see if any of these dissenters can tell us exactly how Federalism would resolve the disparity that exists between member nations, some a long way from convergence.
Is Federalism a panacea for such widely different economies in not only size but also character?

Of course not - it could be argued the opposite way - Federalism would harm the weakest.

[1] as the £ sags and the world realises we have a very weak trading prospect post 2018
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The Buccaneer
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Affa
Mar 8 2017, 05:04 PM
The ECB is a 'LOLR'!
Lender of Last Resort .......... it is why it exists!


So you say, but........
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The Buccaneer
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Tigger
Mar 8 2017, 07:47 PM
The Buccaneer
Mar 8 2017, 12:04 AM

Why should we care, and how many times do you need reminding that WE will be holding a very strong hand in these 'negotiations', right to the point where we tell them that if we don't get a reasonably acceptable deal, we'll simply leave without one.



FFS! !jk!

This is the tactic of shooting yourself in the head in the hope the ricochet wings your opposite number! ;D

Those who pay attention will be aware of just how much the UK relies on foreign investment to keep several areas of the economy afloat, yet another carmaker, Toyota this time, is holding back on investment due to concerns over getting a viable deal from the EU, probably in case political idiots "simply leave without one."

Understand this, we lose access to the biggest fre market in the World and that means we become a less attractive place for businesses that make things or sell services.

I guess it must really frustrate you how many countries still continue to pile money into the UK because they believe in us.

You must feel really crap because, even if you fail to acknowledge.
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The Buccaneer
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Steve K
Mar 8 2017, 08:44 PM
Affa
Mar 8 2017, 05:04 PM
The ECB is a 'LOLR'!
Lender of Last Resort .......... it is why it exists!

Exactly

And the ECB is backed by binding commitments by the € using nations

A Federal state is but one way of making a single currency work. The Leavers have continually pushed the lie that it is the only way. They seemingly need to restart doing this as with every day of Brexit bad news[1] they have to push this false "look what we saved you from" line.

No one needed saving from the non existent USofE threat any more than they need saving from the just as fictional Martians.


I find it difficult to believe that you of all of us, continue to believe that the ECB is somehow able to back the €, when basically it has absolutely NO remit to do so.


I truly feel so sorry for you gullible nutters if that's what you really believe.
[1] as the £ sags and the world realises we have a very weak trading prospect post 2018
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Steve K
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The Buccaneer
Mar 9 2017, 01:03 AM
Steve K
Mar 8 2017, 08:44 PM
Affa
Mar 8 2017, 05:04 PM
The ECB is a 'LOLR'!
Lender of Last Resort .......... it is why it exists!

Exactly

And the ECB is backed by binding commitments by the € using nations

A Federal state is but one way of making a single currency work. The Leavers have continually pushed the lie that it is the only way. They seemingly need to restart doing this as with every day of Brexit bad news[1] they have to push this false "look what we saved you from" line.

No one needed saving from the non existent USofE threat any more than they need saving from the just as fictional Martians.


I find it difficult to believe that you of all of us, continue to believe that the ECB is somehow able to back the €, when basically it has absolutely NO remit to do so.


I truly feel so sorry for you gullible nutters if that's what you really believe.
So if we're "gullible nutters" what does that make you that posts garbage without even a cursory check that it has any reality

You said "I find it difficult to believe that you of all of us, continue to believe that the ECB is somehow able to back the €, when basically it has absolutely NO remit to do so."

Well let's look: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/html/index.en.html
Quote:
 
The mission of the ECB

Our mission is to serve the people of Europe by safeguarding the value of the euro and maintaining price stability. Find out more about the mission of the ECB, the Eurosystem and the Single Supervisory Mechanism.

Ain't facts awkward to Brexshitters




[1] as the £ sags and the world realises we have a very weak trading prospect post 2018
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Rich
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Affa
Mar 8 2017, 09:10 PM
Steve K
Mar 8 2017, 08:44 PM
Affa
Mar 8 2017, 05:04 PM
The ECB is a 'LOLR'!
Lender of Last Resort .......... it is why it exists!

Exactly

And the ECB is backed by binding commitments by the € using nations

A Federal state is but one way of making a single currency work. The Leavers have continually pushed the lie that it is the only way. They seemingly need to restart doing this as with every day of Brexit bad news[1] they have to push this false "look what we saved you from" line.

No one needed saving from the non existent USofE threat any more than they need saving from the just as fictional Martians.

Let's see if any of these dissenters can tell us exactly how Federalism would resolve the disparity that exists between member nations, some a long way from convergence.
Is Federalism a panacea for such widely different economies in not only size but also character?

Of course not - it could be argued the opposite way - Federalism would harm the weakest.
IMHO, I am not convinced that the EU federalist dream is the real problem, the way I see it is that a few ruling elites have forced an agenda of multiculural integration on cultures that are not yet ready to mix onto 500 million bods that, to be honest have not been told the whole truth of what the ultimate plan is.

And it is quite obvious that convergence has not yet reached an equal plateau between some member states and the others that can quell any fears by financial means.

I say good luck to the EU, but it is not for the UK, I still think it will all end in tears as they have gone too far and too fast.

And the Muslim population in Europe will certainly not shrink, therein in lies the fly in the ointment.
[1] as the £ sags and the world realises we have a very weak trading prospect post 2018
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Affa
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Rich
Mar 9 2017, 01:23 AM
IMHO, I am not convinced that the EU federalist dream is the real problem,

Don't get me wrong when I say there are huge advantages to Federalism. It all depends on what form it takes, and the direction it goes in.
I do not reject or fear federalism, I do fear Corporate interference in it.

Guy Verhofstadt is a Federalist and here makes the economic case it by saying it would give the euro greater stability - and he is correct. Having a Treasury would make it easier to manage the EU economy.
Using the US model as he does here was idiotic, reminds me of Farage. Saying that the US spends $62bn on homeland security as a selling point the height of it - would you want to imply that adopting federalism is going to increase spending on such a scale?
He's just another example of how politicians take the electorate for fools ...... the UK isn't the only place where it happens ......... where it has success.
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Tigger
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The Buccaneer
Mar 9 2017, 12:57 AM

I guess it must really frustrate you how many countries still continue to pile money into the UK because they believe in us.

You must feel really crap because, even if you fail to acknowledge.
Do you still not understand? You totally ignore all the mood music coming from the auto sector in particuar, a sector that employs well over a million people in various capacities, you then pretend nothing will change because of Brexit? Wake up.
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The Buccaneer
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Affa
Mar 9 2017, 08:48 AM
Rich
Mar 9 2017, 01:23 AM
IMHO, I am not convinced that the EU federalist dream is the real problem,

Don't get me wrong when I say there are huge advantages to Federalism. It all depends on what form it takes, and the direction it goes in.
I do not reject or fear federalism, I do fear Corporate interference in it.

Guy Verhofstadt is a Federalist and here makes the economic case it by saying it would give the euro greater stability - and he is correct. Having a Treasury would make it easier to manage the EU economy.
Using the US model as he does here was idiotic, reminds me of Farage. Saying that the US spends $62bn on homeland security as a selling point the height of it - would you want to imply that adopting federalism is going to increase spending on such a scale?
He's just another example of how politicians take the electorate for fools ...... the UK isn't the only place where it happens ......... where it has success.

Verhofstadt wants federalism as do some others in the EU, and there was recently a meeting of the heads of Germany, France Italy and Luxembourg to investigate the possibility of a '2 speed EU', which I take to mean those of converging economies who are willing to band together in common tax, budgetary and legal terms as a sort of mini federation.

This though seems to raise more questions than it solves, because whilst they would become the bedrock for the €, how would that work for the other less able economies, would there have to be a € mk 2 or would they have to leave the EZ until their economies did converge and they joined the federation ?

It doesn't seem likely to me, and neither does the continued existence of that currency since is has no LOLR, and the ECB isn't one, even though it prints the currency, so where does it get its money backing from, those EZ countries already in huge euro debt ?
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Tigger
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The Buccaneer
Mar 10 2017, 11:26 AM


It doesn't seem likely to me, and neither does the continued existence of that currency since is has no LOLR, and the ECB isn't one, even though it prints the currency, so where does it get its money backing from, those EZ countries already in huge euro debt ?
FFS. :facepalm:

Despite these claims being proved untrue, you've had the evoidence shoved under your nose several times, you persist with this gibberish.

And then you wonder why people like me worry about our future whilst idiocy reigns...........
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The Buccaneer
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Tigger
Mar 10 2017, 11:45 AM
The Buccaneer
Mar 10 2017, 11:26 AM


It doesn't seem likely to me, and neither does the continued existence of that currency since is has no LOLR, and the ECB isn't one, even though it prints the currency, so where does it get its money backing from, those EZ countries already in huge euro debt ?
FFS. :facepalm:

Despite these claims being proved untrue, you've had the evoidence shoved under your nose several times, you persist with this gibberish.

And then you wonder why people like me worry about our future whilst idiocy reigns...........

Why not simply answer the question and hold the ad hom ?

Too difficult ?
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Steve K
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The Buccaneer
Mar 10 2017, 01:32 PM
Tigger
Mar 10 2017, 11:45 AM
The Buccaneer
Mar 10 2017, 11:26 AM


It doesn't seem likely to me, and neither does the continued existence of that currency since is has no LOLR, and the ECB isn't one, even though it prints the currency, so where does it get its money backing from, those EZ countries already in huge euro debt ?
FFS. :facepalm:

Despite these claims being proved untrue, you've had the evoidence shoved under your nose several times, you persist with this gibberish.

And then you wonder why people like me worry about our future whilst idiocy reigns...........

Why not simply answer the question and hold the ad hom ?

Too difficult ?
There is no ad hom that I can see just a robust challenging of the message.

And seeing as you have chosen to pretend the evidence posted above in post 147 did not exist, I would join in that description of your post as 'gibberish' and 'idiocy'

The ECB is a LOLR, fact

What you might want to argue is that the € has an inherent challenge in that it is extremely difficult for the ECB to decide to let the currency slide.
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The Buccaneer
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Steve K
Mar 10 2017, 01:38 PM


The ECB is a LOLR, fact

What you might want to argue is that the € has an inherent challenge in that it is extremely difficult for the ECB to decide to let the currency slide.


So, the ECB is supporting the € via all the countries in the EZ who are responsible for it financially ?

So that must mean that the ECB will never loan out more than the member countries can actually support ?

Any idea what the overall debt is within the EZ ?
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Steve K
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The Buccaneer
Mar 10 2017, 02:59 PM
Steve K
Mar 10 2017, 01:38 PM


The ECB is a LOLR, fact

What you might want to argue is that the € has an inherent challenge in that it is extremely difficult for the ECB to decide to let the currency slide.


So, the ECB is supporting the € via all the countries in the EZ who are responsible for it financially ?

So that must mean that the ECB will never loan out more than the member countries can actually support ?

Any idea what the overall debt is within the EZ ?
All debt in the EZ? That includes private debt so no I don't know and I suggest it's not relevant what Mario's pizza shop in Verona owes anyone

What might matter is if the ECB had any debt other than to the € nations. Does it?
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Affa
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I celebrate that Buccy finally realised that Federalism doesn't solve the euro problem - for anyone.
So we will not be told that Federalism is needed to save the euro again, will we.
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Steve K
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Affa
Mar 10 2017, 05:36 PM
I celebrate that Buccy finally realised that Federalism doesn't solve the euro problem - for anyone.
So we will not be told that Federalism is needed to save the euro again, will we.
You can hope but best to plan to be disappointed
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The Buccaneer
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Finally, an admission from Mario Draghi that the EU will need to have a 'political union' to ensure the continuation of its bastard currency.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/805762/Netherlands-MP-Thierry-Baudet-Forum-Voor-Democratie-Mario-Draghi-Brexit-Eurosceptic
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RoofGardener
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Logically, and regardless of the above post, surely Buccaneer is correct ?

In the long term, how can multiple nations share a common currency, with a common recognised value, unless there is coallescence ?

You start of thinking in terms of convergence of obvious things like interest rates and inflation et al , but ultimately you have to consider how the individual nations PRODUCE "value", and hence how that converts into currency. And that means pretty much harmonising the laws involving how business is operated. That would ultimately involve the laws relating to tax levels, corporate structures.. even down to things like fraud. And when you do that, you "harmonise" nationality.
Edited by RoofGardener, May 17 2017, 06:46 PM.
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