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Liberals cry wolf
Topic Started: Mar 8 2017, 09:11 PM (668 Views)
Cymru
Alt-Right
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After weeks of coverage about a rise in anti-semitism in America with bomb threats against Jewish centres and the vandalising of Jewish cemeteries given particular prominence, the liberal commentariat decided to link these and similar incidents to Trump, arguing that his rise to power has created a climate of hate which has facilitated this rise in anti-semitism, and demanding that he speak out against this.

It now turns out that the bomb threats were from a disgruntled black guy who broke up with a girlfriend, whilst the cemetery vandalism has been put down to "environmental causes" (i.e. soil erosion and lack of maintenance).

Just don't expect weeks of coverage about this lack of anti-semitism and demands that liberals apologise for crying wolf.

Indeed, using these non-incidents as his motivation New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo has promised $25 million of public funds to Jewish institutions and the establishment of an "Anti-Semitism Task Force" in the New York Police Department.

Presumably we will be seeing the arrest of some soil soon.
Edited by Cymru, Mar 11 2017, 01:16 AM.
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Are Muslims from Indonesia banned from entering the US?
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RoofGardener
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Steve K
Mar 10 2017, 10:46 PM
Seems Trump himself confirmed on February 8th that it was always a Muslim ban

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/829446266111287305

Quote:
 
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Feb 8
'Majority in Leading EU Nations Support Trump-Style Travel Ban'
Poll of more than 10,000 people in 10 countries...
Quote:
 
The figures "suggest that public opposition to further migration from predominantly Muslim states is by no means confined to Trump's electo . .


So Trump calls a Muslim focussed ban a "Trump-Style Travel Ban"

QED
SteveK, DT's tweet merely highlights the results of an opinion poll that referred to a "Trump-Style travel ban".

The "..predominantly Muslim States.." was an editorial comment from NBC, not from Donald Trump.Your post actually confirms my point about the "commentariat" and the mendacious use of this "muslim ban" theme.

The temporary travel ban is focused on terrorism, as defined by the previous presidency, and not on muslims.

Edited by RoofGardener, Mar 11 2017, 08:07 AM.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 08:04 AM
Steve K
Mar 10 2017, 10:46 PM
Seems Trump himself confirmed on February 8th that it was always a Muslim ban

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/829446266111287305

Quote:
 
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Feb 8
'Majority in Leading EU Nations Support Trump-Style Travel Ban'
Poll of more than 10,000 people in 10 countries...

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


So Trump calls a Muslim focussed ban a "Trump-Style Travel Ban"

QED
SteveK, DT's tweet merely highlights the results of an opinion poll that referred to a "Trump-Style travel ban".

The "..predominantly Muslim States.." was an editorial comment from NBC, not from Donald Trump.Your post actually confirms my point about the "commentariat" and the mendacious use of this "muslim ban" theme.

The temporary travel ban is focused on terrorism, as defined by the previous presidency, and not on muslims.

Nope, it's his own added words that refer to it as a Trump style ban
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RoofGardener
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I don't think so SteveK; he is quoting the NBC article. It is THAT article that uses BOTH the terms "Trump-Style...", and "...predominately muslim states.."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/europes-border-crisis/majority-leading-eu-nations-support-trump-style-travel-ban-poll-n718271
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 10:16 AM
I don't think so SteveK; he is quoting the NBC article. It is THAT article that uses BOTH the terms "Trump-Style...", and "...predominately muslim states.."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/europes-border-crisis/majority-leading-eu-nations-support-trump-style-travel-ban-poll-n718271
Nah, it's even clearer if you read it in the original twitter feed https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump (takes a while to scroll down to Feb 8th)

He has deliberately described his action in terms of a muslim ban as that
Quote:
 
'Majority in Leading EU Nations Support Trump-Style Travel Ban'
Poll of more than 10,000 people in 10 countries...

Is his own typing
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RoofGardener
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It is the same as the earlier link you provided. That phrase is in speech marks, quoting - accurately - the headline of the NBC article.

It was the NBC article that used the phrase; DT is merely citing the article. For that matter, the NBC article doesn't even suggest a "muslim ban", though it does use the phrase ".. from majority-muslim countries".

DT did NOT do as you suggest; he did NOT 'describe.. his action in terms of a muslim ban". You are putting the words of the NBC reporter into HIS mouth. DT is merely reporting the fact that an NBC article cited a poll that revealed support for his position.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 11:54 AM
It is the same as the earlier link you provided. That phrase is in speech marks, quoting - accurately - the headline of the NBC article.

It was the NBC article that used the phrase; DT is merely citing the article. For that matter, the NBC article doesn't even suggest a "muslim ban", though it does use the phrase ".. from majority-muslim countries".

DT did NOT do as you suggest; he did NOT 'describe.. his action in terms of a muslim ban". You are putting the words of the NBC reporter into HIS mouth. DT is merely reporting the fact that an NBC article cited a poll that revealed support for his position.
It is not in " " speech marks, it is in single ' ' marks IE he is using the meaning of the words.
Edited by Steve K, Mar 11 2017, 12:19 PM.
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RoofGardener
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ROFL. Now you're just being 'ridiculous' :P
In English, the symbols ' and " are synonymous; both are speech marks, and indicate that the author is quoting something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#In_English

(unless they are being used as 'scare quotes' to indicate irony... but that seems a bit.. well.. .sophisticated for Donald Trump ? )
Edited by RoofGardener, Mar 11 2017, 02:33 PM.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 02:28 PM
ROFL. Now you're just being 'ridiculous' :P
In English, the symbols ' and " are synonymous; both are speech marks, and indicate that the author is quoting something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#In_English

(unless they are being used as 'scare quotes' to indicate irony... but that seems a bit.. well.. .sophisticated for Donald Trump ? )
Nope, you maybe forgot that he is the American President
Oxford Dictionaries
 
In American English, the rule is to use double quotation marks:

"What time will he arrive?" she asked.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/punctuation/inverted-commas-quotation-marks

I win ;D

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RoofGardener
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Yes, but he's not indicating direct spoken words, but citation of written text !

< grabs trophy back of SteveK >
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 04:03 PM
Yes, but he's not indicating direct spoken words, but citation of written text !

< grabs trophy back of SteveK >
Nope

Quote:
 
In this case, in American English, single or double quotation marks are acceptable but it's important to stick to one way or the other throughout a piece of writing.

And he's used " elsewhere in that Twitter feed
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RoofGardener
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So, on the basis of DT switching between single and double quotation marks on a twitter post, you are suggesting that those words where a statement of... what exactly ? :)
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 04:50 PM
So, on the basis of DT switching between single and double quotation marks on a twitter post, you are suggesting that those words where a statement of... what exactly ? :)
Actually I'm saying if it looks like a muslim ban, walks like a muslim ban and is acted on an judged like a muslim ban then it's a muslim ban

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RoofGardener
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OK, but it only looks like those things (with the exception of the judging), based on the eye of the beholder. And the courts never made any reference to a muslim ban.

If it looks like a terrorism counter-measure, walks like a terrorism counter-measure, and is JUDGED on its basis as a terrorism counter-measure, then..... it is a muslim ban. At least according to the liberal commenteriatTM ![1]
[1] The term Liberal Commenteriat is a wholly-owned trademark of the Cymru Neoligsm Coining Company.
Edited by RoofGardener, Mar 11 2017, 06:14 PM.
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Malum Unus
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gansao
Mar 10 2017, 11:40 PM
Are Muslims from Indonesia banned from entering the US?


Nope, nor are Muslims from a number of other countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria or India banned from entering the US.

Funny sort of Muslim ban if you ask me... Nor does the executive order at any point even mention Muslims.

Edited by Malum Unus, Mar 12 2017, 01:24 PM.
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Rich
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Steve K
Mar 11 2017, 03:01 PM
RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 02:28 PM
ROFL. Now you're just being 'ridiculous' :P
In English, the symbols ' and " are synonymous; both are speech marks, and indicate that the author is quoting something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#In_English

(unless they are being used as 'scare quotes' to indicate irony... but that seems a bit.. well.. .sophisticated for Donald Trump ? )
Nope, you maybe forgot that he is the American President
Oxford Dictionaries
 
In American English, the rule is to use double quotation marks:

"What time will he arrive?" she asked.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/punctuation/inverted-commas-quotation-marks

I win ;D

Pedantry :facepalm:
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Steve K
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Rich
Mar 12 2017, 01:34 PM
Steve K
Mar 11 2017, 03:01 PM
RoofGardener
Mar 11 2017, 02:28 PM
ROFL. Now you're just being 'ridiculous' :P
In English, the symbols ' and " are synonymous; both are speech marks, and indicate that the author is quoting something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#In_English

(unless they are being used as 'scare quotes' to indicate irony... but that seems a bit.. well.. .sophisticated for Donald Trump ? )
Nope, you maybe forgot that he is the American President
Oxford Dictionaries
 
In American English, the rule is to use double quotation marks:

"What time will he arrive?" she asked.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/punctuation/inverted-commas-quotation-marks

I win ;D

Pedantry :facepalm:
yes I was responding to such
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RoofGardener
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Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 01:59 PM
yes I was responding to such
A mixture of !jk! , doh: , and :thud:


Roofgardener: the IDF are the most moral military force in the world, and always behave with impeccable respect for international law !
SteveK: (with steam coming out of ears)... no they are NOT; there are multiple UN Resolutions condemning their behavior, multiple findings in the International Court to the same effect, and MASSIVE condemnation on multiple occassions from highly respected international observers, charities, and NGO's... and I can PROVE it.

< dumps huge pile of documents on Roofgardener's desk, which promptly collapses >

Roofgardener (unruffled).. ah, but that's just pedantry ! ;D


Better not let The Donald catch on to THAT technique, SteveK. We'd never hear the end of it  !bgrin!
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Steve K
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Only a pedant would have tried to pretend that Executive Order 13769 was not an anti muslim ban
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RoofGardener
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Only an anti-Trump ideologist would try and pretend that it IS ! ;D
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Malum Unus
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Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 02:29 PM
Only a pedant would have tried to pretend that Executive Order 13769 was not an anti muslim ban


So it's an anti muslim ban that at no point ever mentions muslims and doesn't ban muslims from any other country not on the list, including some very predominantly muslim countries?
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Steve K
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Malum Unus
Mar 12 2017, 03:06 PM
Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 02:29 PM
Only a pedant would have tried to pretend that Executive Order 13769 was not an anti muslim ban


So it's an anti muslim ban that at no point ever mentions muslims and doesn't ban muslims from any other country not on the list, including some very predominantly muslim countries?
It names the maximum number of majority muslim nations that he could get away with and specifically gives exemptions for those that are not muslims

Do join up the dots instead of desperately trying to say "I see no dots"
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Malum Unus
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Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 03:13 PM
Malum Unus
Mar 12 2017, 03:06 PM
Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 02:29 PM
Only a pedant would have tried to pretend that Executive Order 13769 was not an anti muslim ban


So it's an anti muslim ban that at no point ever mentions muslims and doesn't ban muslims from any other country not on the list, including some very predominantly muslim countries?
It names the maximum number of majority muslim nations that he could get away with and specifically gives exemptions for those that are not muslims


Actually “Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.”

But doesn't appear give any specific benefits to non-muslims, unless you can post a link to such?

Or are you referring to the bit about persecuted minorities?

Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 03:13 PM
Do join up the dots instead of desperately trying to say "I see no dots"


Do stop trying to join the dots to form a picture that isn't there.
Edited by Malum Unus, Mar 12 2017, 03:28 PM.
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RoofGardener
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Again, that only works if you have a pre-conception that everything DT does is cynically anti-muslim. (as opposed to anti-terrorism).

Note that the two points: the "list", and the "priority", are two separate things.
The "list" of seven (now six) specific nations is the one that the Obama administration drew up.
The "exceptions" are not "exceptions to the list", but a prioritisation of ALL asylum/refugee applications, from ALL nations towards those who are a persecuted religious minority. Of ALL types.

Surely SteveK, you are not suggesting that only muslim nations persecute their religious minorities ? That would be *gasp* Islamophobic ?  >:D

Edited by RoofGardener, Mar 12 2017, 03:29 PM.
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Malum Unus
Mar 12 2017, 03:25 PM
Actually “Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.”

But doesn't appear give any specific benefits to non-muslims, unless you can post a link to such?

Or are you referring to the bit about persecuted minorities?

Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 03:13 PM
Do join up the dots instead of desperately trying to say "I see no dots"


Do stop trying to join the dots to form a picture that isn't there.
Ahh.. I think that SteveK may be reffering to section (5) of the original Executive Order ?

It granted priority treatment to any asylum/refugee applications to persecuted religious minorities ?

The Liberal Commenteriattm] interpret that as "christians". Or at least... "non muslims".

Curious really.. if you "join up the dots", it means that the Liberals acknowledge that only "mostly muslim" countries persecute non-muslims, a thing that seems to have escaped their collective consciousness thus far.

But that's just Pedantry ;D
Edited by RoofGardener, Mar 12 2017, 03:35 PM.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 12 2017, 03:29 PM
Again, that only works if you have a pre-conception that everything DT does is cynically anti-muslim. (as opposed to anti-terrorism).

Note that the two points: the "list", and the "priority", are two separate things.
The "list" of seven (now six) specific nations is the one that the Obama administration drew up.
The "exceptions" are not "exceptions to the list", but a prioritisation of ALL asylum/refugee applications, from ALL nations towards those who are a persecuted religious minority. Of ALL types.

Surely SteveK, you are not suggesting that only muslim nations persecute their religious minorities ? That would be *gasp* Islamophobic ?  >:D

Who said everything he does? Not I. Those that look at facts will recall I actually supported one of his executive orders

But he is the very person who promised a muslim ban and then said in July last year that he'd revise the words as an 'expansion' of his proposed muslim ban

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/24/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-election-2016/

and 13769 was one of his first Exec orders and the court ruling against him was very clear on the point that religious bias was behind their decision

Quote:
 
It is hereby ORDERED that:

1. Federal Defendants and all their respective officers, agents, servants, employees, attorneys, and persons acting in concert or participation with them are hereby ENJOINED and RESTRAINED from:
(a) Enforcing Section 3(c) of the Executive Order;
(b) Enforcing Section 5(a) of the Executive Order;
(c) Enforcing Section 5(b) of the Executive Order or proceeding with any action that prioritizes the refugee claims of certain religious minorities;
(d) Enforcing Section 5(c) of the Executive Order;
(e) Enforcing Section 5(e) of the Executive Order to the extent Section 5(e) purports to prioritize refugee claims of certain religious minorities.


yes I know some mistake the financial irreparable harm argument (which is a necessary added requirement for an injunction/TRO) to be the legal basis of why the order was wrong.

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RoofGardener
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Good post. Thanks for taking the time and effort to confirm that there is no "muslim ban"
We appreciate your efforts in the diligent search for facts, SteveK :)

Edited by RoofGardener, Mar 12 2017, 04:56 PM.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Mar 12 2017, 04:52 PM
Good post. Thanks for taking the time and effort to confirm that there is no "muslim ban"
We appreciate your efforts in the diligent search for facts, SteveK :)

:nono: Don't we have a rule 7 about posts like that ^

As I said, only the pedantic would say that what everyone knows was a muslim ban wasn't just because those specific words don't appear in the order.
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Rich
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Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 05:18 PM
RoofGardener
Mar 12 2017, 04:52 PM
Good post. Thanks for taking the time and effort to confirm that there is no "muslim ban"
We appreciate your efforts in the diligent search for facts, SteveK :)

:nono: Don't we have a rule 7 about posts like that ^

As I said, only the pedantic would say that what everyone knows was a muslim ban wasn't just because those specific words don't appear in the order.
Well, as a confirmed pedant, I would have to say your claim, (as it were) is nothing more than an "assumption" on your part......unless of course you can provide actual evidence of DT mentioning the words regarding specific muslim peoples in his banning speech or indeed in the EO.

And you cannot deny, that you yourself as a pedant have picked me up upon the wrong use of a single word even though you knew well what point I was making.
Edited by Rich, Mar 12 2017, 05:37 PM.
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Steve K
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Rich
Mar 12 2017, 05:35 PM
....unless of course you can provide actual evidence of DT mentioning the words regarding specific muslim peoples in his banning speech or indeed in the EO.
Now who is being pedantic?
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Rich
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Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 05:36 PM
Rich
Mar 12 2017, 05:35 PM
....unless of course you can provide actual evidence of DT mentioning the words regarding specific muslim peoples in his banning speech or indeed in the EO.
Now who is being pedantic?
Well, they do say that it takes one to know one....no hard feelings mate. !wav!
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Malum Unus
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RoofGardener
Mar 12 2017, 03:33 PM
Malum Unus
Mar 12 2017, 03:25 PM
Actually “Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.”

But doesn't appear give any specific benefits to non-muslims, unless you can post a link to such?

Or are you referring to the bit about persecuted minorities?

Steve K
Mar 12 2017, 03:13 PM
Do join up the dots instead of desperately trying to say "I see no dots"


Do stop trying to join the dots to form a picture that isn't there.
Ahh.. I think that SteveK may be reffering to section (5) of the original Executive Order ?

It granted priority treatment to any asylum/refugee applications to persecuted religious minorities ?

The Liberal Commenteriattm] interpret that as "christians". Or at least... "non muslims".

Curious really.. if you "join up the dots", it means that the Liberals acknowledge that only "mostly muslim" countries persecute non-muslims, a thing that seems to have escaped their collective consciousness thus far.

But that's just Pedantry ;D


Actually it should be noted that the wording of this 'Muslim ban', actually allows Ahmadi Muslims to enter the US.
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RoofGardener
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Yeah... along with Muslims from the other 40+ "muslim majority" countries not mentioned in Obama's list. ;D

Posted Image
"I'm detecting large amounts of Pedantry in this sector, Captain... "
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Rich
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RoofGardener
Mar 13 2017, 09:54 AM
Yeah... along with Muslims from the other 40+ "muslim majority" countries not mentioned in Obama's list. ;D

Posted Image
"I'm detecting large amounts of Pedantry in this sector, Captain... "
I think we should progress to warp 3 and be done with otherwise the Klingons will be up our arse's.  :o
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Rich
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Rich
Mar 13 2017, 09:56 AM
RoofGardener
Mar 13 2017, 09:54 AM
Yeah... along with Muslims from the other 40+ "muslim majority" countries not mentioned in Obama's list. ;D

Posted Image
"I'm detecting large amounts of Pedantry in this sector, Captain... "
I think we should progress to warp 3 and be done with otherwise the Klingons will be up our arse's.  :o
None of my business, but are you not supposed to be judging the caption competition?
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Malum Unus
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RoofGardener
Mar 13 2017, 09:54 AM
Yeah... along with Muslims from the other 40+ "muslim majority" countries not mentioned in Obama's list. ;D

Posted Image
"I'm detecting large amounts of Pedantry in this sector, Captain... "


Yup, more than half of the total Muslim population on Earth is not banned or even hampered by this Executive Order.
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