| Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Turkey / Netherlands; Nasty language. | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Mar 13 2017, 07:38 AM (1,708 Views) | |
| C-too | Mar 13 2017, 07:38 AM Post #1 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The spat between Turkey and the Netherlands has led to some very nasty comments by Erdogan. It seems that Erdogan wants more power and control in Turkey and sees the actions by the Dutch (and Germans) as a stumbling block in his ambitions. Judging by the comments by Erdogan I would think he is not fit to have any power, authority or control anywhere. "They are Nazi remnants, they are fascists," Erdogan said, days after he angrily compared moves to block rallies in Germany to "Nazi practices". Netherlands Prime Minister Mark Rutte called Erdogan's remark comparing the Dutch to the Nazis "crazy". http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/turkey-tells-dutch-ambassador-don-hurry-170311201322798.html |
![]() |
|
| RoofGardener | Mar 13 2017, 08:39 AM Post #2 |
![]()
Lord of Plantpots
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Terep isn't making many friends in western europe at the moment !
|
![]() |
|
| Rich | Mar 13 2017, 10:02 AM Post #3 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I think he is taking advantage of the situation to exacerbate it and to ensure that the Turks are 4 square behind him as he portrays them as being isolated from the international scene, I read him as an opportunist and potential warmonger. I have no doubt that his next move will be to encourage Turks to flood Europe and try to hold the EU to ransom in doing so. Best to bolster the borders my dears.
|
![]() |
|
| RoofGardener | Mar 13 2017, 10:21 AM Post #4 |
![]()
Lord of Plantpots
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Hmm.. some friends at work seem to think that Austria and Swizterland have also placed restrictions on "electioneering" by the Turkish government on their soil. |
![]() |
|
| The Buccaneer | Mar 13 2017, 11:14 AM Post #5 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Excitable lot these Turks. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Mar 13 2017, 12:45 PM Post #6 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Seems to be true and very right to do so They should all say they will permanently expel any Turks that break the law. And if Erdogan threatens to let refugees flood through just say the EU will suspend the trade deal Turkey has until such time as Erdogan resigns. He's a power crazy dangerous nut, treat him like one |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Mar 13 2017, 01:14 PM Post #7 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Oh no, we won't have 75m Turks moving to England now! About time that bus was scrapped! |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Mar 13 2017, 01:23 PM Post #8 |
|
Deleted User
|
Have the Turks given up on visa less entry to EU countries? Afaik there was never a claim that 75million Turks will move to England. They may move to Scotland soon though
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Mar 13 2017, 01:24 PM Post #9 |
|
Deleted User
|
Don't you think that Erdogan is acting like Putin on speed ? |
|
|
| RoofGardener | Mar 13 2017, 01:32 PM Post #10 |
![]()
Lord of Plantpots
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well, the Dutch ambassador has been expelled. Or rather... he was already out of the country, but is now not going to be allowed back in. Some of the language being used by Turkish government ministers is hyperbolic - and very revealing. The below are extracts from an article in The Independent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-netherlands-rotterdam-protests-recep-tayyip-erdogan-president-dutch-election-geert-wilders-a7625196.html "Boss-like attitude" ?? Hey, guess what... when it comes to decisions about visitors to their territories, the European nations ARE the boss. "....like hostages, cutting them off from Ankara..." They can go to Ankara any time they want ! ".... I am a foreign minister and I can go wherever I want..." Oh really ? Try North Korea. Heck, I'm sure we'd all have a whip-around to buy you a ticket ! The sheer arrogance of these comments is breathtaking. It is reminding me of the sort of deranged arrogant outpourings of groups like the Iranian Islamic Republic Guard, ISIS, HAMAS, and the SNP !
|
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Mar 13 2017, 01:58 PM Post #11 |
|
Deleted User
|
Turkey has little chance of getting into the EU in the foreseeable future and imo this suit Erdogan. However after Tried to open up the EU to Mediterranean migrants , bottled it and got Turkey to do its dirty work Erdogan has a weapon to use against the EU. At the moment he is using insulting rhetoric to try to create a siege mentality in Turkey. When he gets the power that he wants he will blackmail the EU with the threat of allowing a flood of migrants into Europe. All because Merkel and co did not have the balls or political will to make painful choices and actions |
|
|
| Cymru | Mar 13 2017, 08:27 PM Post #12 |
|
Alt-Right
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
This should help Wilders. |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Mar 13 2017, 08:32 PM Post #13 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
"Try telling that to the southern EU countries that are inundated by the thousands. Bearing in mind that these visitors are uninvited. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749273/Italy-EU-Matteo-Renzi-Police-migrants-Libya-deport-terror |
![]() |
|
| Jessamy Bride | Mar 13 2017, 11:08 PM Post #14 |
|
Regular Pub Goer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
He is playing to the gallery..... Muslims like the victim narrative.... and he is being seen as a hero standing up for their rights. Only he is not a victim and there isn't an EU enemy of the Turkish..... of that proportion ....percieved or otherwise. He is an electioneering liar........ Par for the course where elections are concerned. |
![]() |
|
| C-too | Mar 14 2017, 12:39 AM Post #15 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
He is probably an excellent example why countries should avoid giving a religiously controlled individual any power, authority or control. Thankfully Europe has been there, moved on, and doesn't look like making the same mistake again. |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Mar 14 2017, 01:14 AM Post #16 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Here I must disagree Ctoo, by allowing so many ME migrants into Europe and the exponential manner in which they reproduce, I do not think it will be too many decades before Europe becomes another "Turkey" and I mean that in both senses's of the word. Edited by Rich, Mar 14 2017, 01:16 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Oddball | Mar 14 2017, 03:38 AM Post #17 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Hmmn, seems to me that Edogan, wants control over his ex-pats as well, yes to help him at home, but also by dint of their 'religion' and living in such countries, to have some control/greater influence over those other countries. I think somewhere in his noddle he harbours a wish for Turkey to become a member of the EU, and to get a better foothold north of the Bosporos. In one sense it is rather like the Norman kings attempting dominance/strong influence on both sides of the English Channel/La Manche. Edited by Oddball, Mar 14 2017, 03:47 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| C-too | Mar 14 2017, 07:29 AM Post #18 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I have much more faith in the average European, a civil war will happen long before Islam gets anywhere near getting its hands on control of Europe. But you do raise the need for Islam to be challenged in Europe, IMO education is one way to do that. There are many examples in recent history of how the human emotional system can be indoctrinated into believing something. A greater understanding of how the emotional system can be indoctrinated in such a way that it takes control of the logical thinking area of the brain will eventually sink in with Muslims who are expected to self-indoctrinate every day. I would like to ask the more vocal extreme Muslims if they know the difference between a belief and a fact. |
![]() |
|
| C-too | Mar 14 2017, 07:35 AM Post #19 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I find his approach to be the epitome of arrogance. Who the hell does he think he is ? I hope the people of Turkey pull back from allowing themselves to be dominated under the heal of Islamic control. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Mar 14 2017, 09:23 AM Post #20 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The maths and stats say you are very very wrong on that. Experience says that won't stop you repeating it. |
![]() |
|
| Mr Pat | Mar 14 2017, 10:13 AM Post #21 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Link please? |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Mar 14 2017, 10:15 AM Post #22 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You are of course, entitled to your opinion.....as am I. |
![]() |
|
| RoofGardener | Mar 14 2017, 10:32 AM Post #23 |
![]()
Lord of Plantpots
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Hmm... I dunno.... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-uk-statistics-net-migration-children-born-to-women-born-abroad-figures-a7208936.html It seems that 25% of all births in 2015 where to women born outside of the UK. That doesn't even factor in births due to second or third generation immigrants. |
![]() |
|
| C-too | Mar 14 2017, 11:29 AM Post #24 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yes but the likes of Poles and Rumanians are not migrants into Europe. |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Mar 14 2017, 11:52 AM Post #25 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So, how did we get from ME migrants to Polish and Romanian immigrants? |
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Mar 14 2017, 12:09 PM Post #26 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I don't know if anyone has been to Rotterdam..it's like Istanbul!! |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Mar 14 2017, 12:26 PM Post #27 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
We've done all this before here several times. If we had a decent search engine I could dig it up However here's a start: ONS: "Fertility levels decline for women born outside the UK" Then you have the fact that 2nd and 3rd generation immigrant fertility rates become very convergent with indigenous rates. |
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Mar 14 2017, 01:04 PM Post #28 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I bet they'd fall even further if we stopped providing child benefit etc? In the 80's..France tried to encourage more French women to have children..and were offering a fabulous amount of money and ''Allocations Familiales'' to couples..However..it soon became clear that the Algerians..(with French papers) were doing most of the breeding..and they had to amend these extremely generous offers to French citizens whose grandparents had been born in France.. |
![]() |
|
| C-too | Mar 14 2017, 01:29 PM Post #29 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
RoofGardener's comment that ---"It seems that 25% of all births in 2015 where to women born outside of the UK."--- |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Mar 14 2017, 01:52 PM Post #30 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
If I may, it is not so much the fertility rate but the religion that will be forced/adopted by the newborns and I for one do not want to see Europe or indeed the UK become predominantly Islamic in culture and religion, and therein lies my concerns. You may well scoff and say that I worry needlessly, okay, you too are entitled to your opinion......do not forget how Nazism grew whilst the rest of us denied the threat (at the time) that it might and indeed did bring and at what awful cost in life and human misery. I think that the cliche'....too late the hero fits the bill. |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Mar 14 2017, 01:56 PM Post #31 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Don't worry Mary I've got six kids and in many ways they are just like me, those darkies won't outbreed me! Actually PH1 iirc has ten.
|
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Mar 14 2017, 02:40 PM Post #32 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What are you doing on here?? Get at it..quick.. |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Mar 14 2017, 03:46 PM Post #33 |
|
Deleted User
|
Knock on the door of local local mosque. I'm sure they will be happy to tell you. |
|
|
| Deleted User | Mar 14 2017, 03:57 PM Post #34 |
|
Deleted User
|
Ordinary people are abandoning the leftie narrative in droves. So Labour embraces Muslims and presents them as the oppressed minority in the same way that the working class of the past were. They need them. They pay lip service to the backward ,racist and misogynist principles of Islam but never dare face in front on. Instead they apply it to Christians ..they are an easier target. As for Nazis..the lefties love calling people who are evidently not Nazis as Nazis. The fools that think by destroying Christianity they will create an egalitarian secular society are clueless to the threat that the vacuum left by destroying Christianity will be filled by Islam. |
|
|
| Rich | Mar 14 2017, 04:12 PM Post #35 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I admit this is hypocritical as I am a committed atheist.....but God forbid that the dominant Islamic culture become reality,....we have seen and experienced what it has done to their own countries and of course their dream is to infiltrate and to dominate the "great Satan" of the west. We must not sleepwalk and allow this to happen, this country (the UK) is a Christian based society and that has served us well and it must remain so. I dread to think what our Monarch would do if as head of our Christian society she/he found themselves to be in a minority when part of the hereditary title is "defender of the faith" |
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Mar 14 2017, 04:16 PM Post #36 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You know as well as I do Rich..these people will NOT win... |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Mar 14 2017, 04:20 PM Post #37 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Mary, that can only be done by those with spine enough to stand up proud and say it like it is.....perhaps you can name me such a politician that would be willing to do that? |
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Mar 14 2017, 04:21 PM Post #38 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
However Prince Harry is in love with Meghan Markle..divorced with children..a Catholic??? |
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Mar 14 2017, 04:22 PM Post #39 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I would have done..but I am too old now.. |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Mar 14 2017, 04:26 PM Post #40 |
|
Deleted User
|
The UK has tolerated atheism ,deism within the corridors of power and most religions outside of it. Nowadays the rabid antiChristian lefties use the word tolerance as a tool for intolerance. Christianity has been dying on its feet in the UK for a hundred years whereas Islam has grown from a tiny minority into a significant force. It is whatever the political commentator wants it to be. An oppressed minority, a misrepresented one, an alternative culture and an alternative , more assertive religious doctrine. Even Prince Charlie wants to be a defender of the faiths. You don't get homosexuals using committed Muslims to make political points ..I wonder why? |
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today. Learn More · Sign-up Now |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Europe · Next Topic » |




![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)





2:16 PM Jul 11