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| The Brexit self harm thread! ; merged with Learn to wipe your own arse? | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 22 2017, 10:43 AM (2,535 Views) | |
| Tigger | Feb 22 2017, 10:43 AM Post #1 |
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These incidents are going to become increasingly common, and very funny! , A poll conducted last April by trade magazine Farmers Weekly concluded that 58% of farmers wanted out of the EU, and from today's Times, we now have farmers fretting about who is going to harvest their spring crops! With the £ so low and the message getting through that foreigners are no longer welcome in the way they once were the number of crop pickers from EE has plumeted, not to worry though farmers are calling for tens of thousands of NON EU citizens to be bussed in! No wonder David Davis wants mass immigration to continue! |
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| Dan1989 | Apr 22 2017, 12:47 PM Post #201 |
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But it won't go quickly, unless Germany pressures everyone else, I can not see either France or Italy bending over, well Italy might, they might need a bailout. But this notion that a deal would happen quickly is fascicle, it's taken years to get to a maybe between the EU and US. As with previous negotiations all members couldn't agree on a deal. |
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| Steve K | Apr 22 2017, 01:09 PM Post #202 |
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Once and future cynic
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And that says it'll be even more years before we get a deal We really are going to be the Boris No Mates of the world |
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| Dan1989 | Apr 22 2017, 01:27 PM Post #203 |
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I just don't get it, I see why he's wanting to deal with the EU because Merkel rebuffed him. But there's literally no obstacles from us to start negotiations, unless the EU demands such, but then again can America be seen to be brow beating by the EU. This seems so political and not business focused, trade deals happen simultaneous all the time. Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 01:29 PM.
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| Steve K | Apr 22 2017, 01:32 PM Post #204 |
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Once and future cynic
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But the USA has long held a policy of negotiating with trade blocks over negotiating with individual countries. And that's what they'll default to. Just like Leavers were told and Boris Pinocchio Johnson said wasn't true - because he and his ilk would say anything, literally anything to further his aims But the truth is always going to out. |
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| Dan1989 | Apr 22 2017, 01:55 PM Post #205 |
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But they still do that's the issue, they still trade with individual countries. Though I guess people were right about the globalist agenda, but then again who could be surprised I think that's been America's aim for decades, it's just that the people of America have issue with it. Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 02:16 PM.
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| Steve K | Apr 22 2017, 02:07 PM Post #206 |
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Once and future cynic
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They trade with individual countries yes, everybody does on WTO terms. Their extant policy is to not agree free-er trade deals with individual countries while negotiating with any trade block. Boris told us all Trump had changed that and this would be a key part of making Britain Great again. Well one or both of them were lying. Shocked not |
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| Rich | Apr 22 2017, 03:55 PM Post #207 |
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By George, I wish I had a crystal ball, I would be doing the lottery right now. |
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| Tigger | Apr 22 2017, 09:54 PM Post #208 |
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Of course the EU already has several agreements with the US in place, given Trumps concerns that the trade balance is very much in favour of the EU he's probably looking to change that, he wants wriggle room because he's made some outlandish claims back home, but here is the thing, if US consumers are buying EU (and Chinese goods) it must be because they want to buy them, they are not being forced are they? As the German trade minister said when defending German car plants based in the US, if the Americans want to sell more cars at home and abroad the best way to do that is to make better cars! And as for us we are fucked! The notion that the US will cut us a better and faster trade deal because that is what we want is pure fantasy, and lets face it if we had to give up our first born to secure a deal the Brexit thickos under the instruction of the right wing press would hail it as a resounding success!
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| Tigger | Apr 22 2017, 09:56 PM Post #209 |
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No need for balls just go a bit higher and open your eyes and ears. |
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| Dan1989 | Apr 22 2017, 10:11 PM Post #210 |
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Those agreements really aren't want either side desire. They are aiming for free trade deals, hence why it's taking so long, because neither can agree, well America has, but the member states have not. I don't mind entering the dog eat dog world of trading, if people thought it would be easy, that's their fault, my reasoning was to expand our reach, instead of relying on the EU members to agree which happened more with smaller countries then large. Also I never really liked the protectionist outlook of the EU, even if we stayed in. Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 10:30 PM.
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| Tigger | Apr 22 2017, 10:54 PM Post #211 |
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Yeah our reach should be huge, we'll shoot ourselves in the foot and get our hands badly burnt! The people currently running this country are just like the people running Singapore in 1941, that is the level of xenophobic delusion we are currently under.
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| Tigger | Apr 22 2017, 10:56 PM Post #212 |
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I had no idea you were a US/EU trade envoy! Go on, tell us what Donalds favorite colour is! |
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| Dan1989 | Apr 23 2017, 07:28 AM Post #213 |
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We aren't xenophobic(but like nigger we should just own it to annoy you lot), we just now believe to put ourselves first, it's people like who kept using the buzzwords, that we now ignore it. You've probably wondering why people don't really respond to sexist, racist, add-name-phobic, it does not work anymore. Also if I remember Singapore still has very tight migration and doing quite fine, maybe them making good education and economic choices had something to do it, you know embracing Capitalism similar to Hong Kong who were doing far better then the rest of China, only when China started to liberalise caught up as-well. Edited by Dan1989, Apr 23 2017, 07:30 AM.
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| Dan1989 | Apr 23 2017, 07:29 AM Post #214 |
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So, are you really saying that neither side whats a free trade deal? You can not be saying the opposite, that they don't. Also if I had to guess Orange is his favourite colour. Edited by Dan1989, Apr 23 2017, 07:42 AM.
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| Tigger | Apr 23 2017, 07:04 PM Post #215 |
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You had no idea what I meant by mentioning the Singapore of 1942 vis a vis leadership! |
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| Tigger | Apr 23 2017, 07:14 PM Post #216 |
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They both want a deal that favours them, that is the nature of these things, remember now? I blame Liam Fox myself, he was using the term free trade like confetti a few months ago and it would seem some are repeating it without thinking what it might actually mean, in fact Fox knows what it means now, loads of air miles and fuck all to bring home!
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| Dan1989 | Apr 23 2017, 09:21 PM Post #217 |
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I did, I just ignored the poorly hidden fascist joke, what purpose does it have?
Also remember the right year, you said 1941(still under British control), I guess you meant 1942 and thinks he's done over someone, who didn't even respond because there was no reason. You know what's more hilarious you'd compare our government and country to fascist Japan, kinda sick of you, to be honest. The people have shown disapproval of current immigration, so in your opinion comparable to Fascism, no wonder people are taking you less serious, also the constant insults, probably does not help. You must be one of those radical Communists/socialists in youth, where everything is Fascism, basically anything you disagree with. But Singapore would probably be a place you disagreed with, it isn't as socialist leaning country, though does show a lot of similarities with Fascist China & USSR tactics on freedom and press, but I forgot you'd admire they supposed dislike of Western freedom, when any chance they aim for it, they are violently put down. Edited by Dan1989, Apr 23 2017, 09:58 PM.
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| Tigger | Apr 23 2017, 10:11 PM Post #218 |
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I'd better explain as you've still not got it, you probably need some history lessons, and you are not the best when asked to work things out! I was comparing the present state of Britain and it's leaders to the situation in Singapore just before the Japanese invasion, there was complacency, the opposition was regarded as a bit of a joke with racial sterotypes abounding and there was the feeling they would not dare take us on because of who we are. Admittedly this is not an invasion but we are still overestimating ourselves whilst underestimating the resolve of Europe. Educate yourself by looking up the Dunning - Kruger effect.
Edited by Tigger, Apr 23 2017, 10:14 PM.
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| Tigger | Apr 24 2017, 07:32 PM Post #219 |
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Well you appear to have discovered Google at long last! Now all you need to do is learn a bit of honesty!
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| Steve K | Apr 24 2017, 08:56 PM Post #220 |
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Once and future cynic
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The key point about Singapore is that in 1941 those that ran it failed to prepare and in 1942 they had to prepare to fail and duly did. That "The people currently running this country are just like the people running Singapore in 1941, that is the level of xenophobic delusion we are currently under" was a fair analogy imho and those (incorrectly as it happens) arguing about the dates just show they know at heart the analogy is rather damning. |
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| Tigger | Apr 24 2017, 09:05 PM Post #221 |
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Exactly, and dragging the topic sort of back to where we started I'm rather perturbed and the constant stream of false information we get from our press regarding the EU, one busted falsehood is quickly replaced by another, the thing is I bet there is hardly a single person in the cabinet who does not know that this false narrative is going to come back with a vengence. Playing up to the lies of the press will cause some serious problems. |
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| Steve K | Apr 24 2017, 09:18 PM Post #222 |
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Once and future cynic
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It's the "yes Brexit is bad but look what we saved you from" false narrative. And it's falling apart. Why did May call a June election? Because she realised she'd lose a 2020 election and wasn't too sure about a September 2017 one either. They bet on Trump bailing them out and Europe begging for us to help them get a relationship with Trump. But Merkel is a far better poker player than May. For a start she knows not to buff when the other side can see your cards. A lesson Boris, May etc have still to learn. |
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| Steve K | Apr 24 2017, 09:22 PM Post #223 |
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Once and future cynic
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The next poster to call someone a dick head in main forum gets a spell in the cooler |
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| Tigger | Apr 24 2017, 09:28 PM Post #224 |
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Yes, the first rungs of the ladder are getting higher and higher. This was May about a month ago, in the morning she was on a factory visit and gave a talk saying that we'd still let in the workers we needed, the following day she said immigration would be drastically cut, depending which paper you read you could be forgiven for thinking she was going to do little to stop immigration or virtually stop it altogether! I'd say by the time this is all over there will be even more pissed off people than there are now. |
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| Steve K | Apr 24 2017, 09:32 PM Post #225 |
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Once and future cynic
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The key yet again is going to be Sunderland. If she can't keep Nissan investing there she knows she's staked the house on a busted flush |
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| Steve K | Apr 24 2017, 09:44 PM Post #226 |
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Once and future cynic
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Thread locked while a host of off topic material is moved to more appropriate places and now reopened but some more posts will go Edited by Steve K, Apr 24 2017, 09:57 PM.
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| Steve K | Apr 24 2017, 10:11 PM Post #227 |
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Once and future cynic
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Surely as I posted in post 220 it's an analogy and to add to it June 2016 to March 2017 equates to 1941 (fail to prepare) March 2017 to September 2017 equates to January 1942 (prepare to fail) |
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| Tigger | Apr 24 2017, 10:28 PM Post #228 |
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The thing is we must have offered payment of some kind to bribe keep them here, either that or a promise that we'd remain in the single market and keep those frictionless supply chains intact, the French government will probably know either way given the firm is partly owned by them which then implies they will have some leverage over the whole process. Another suggestion mentioned on Bloomberg a few weeks ago was to drastically scale back production just make RHD vehicles here in the UK for the domestic market, I expect exports would all but cease if that happened. |
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| Steve K | Apr 24 2017, 10:34 PM Post #229 |
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Once and future cynic
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If she is manoeuvred into paying them money to compensate for EU tariffs then the EU will just invoke anti dumping tariffs and they get really prohibitive. If only the issue was just the tariffs, as AirBus have pointed out the border paperwork issue can be just as severe and Nissan is so intertwined with Renault and Dacia operations that they will need that free flow of goods across borders too to keep the UK plant a better option than the Romanian ones they already have It could still turn out OK but I really don't see she has a game plan to get it so. As I've said before sacking Boris and letting Davis negotiate without an idiot looking and speaking faux cheerleader offending everyone would be a very good step |
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| Tigger | Apr 25 2017, 06:19 PM Post #230 |
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Nothing to do with Brexit but a factory that makes Blue Riband chocolate biscuits in Newcastle is closing and moving production to Poland, only 300 jobs will go but that's not a problem because anyone who wants a job can get one, unlike the biscuits they used to make. Brexit? Sounds a bit like a biscuit doesn't it? The snack you can have between recessions that will ruin your economy? That might need a bit more work. |
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| Jessamy Bride | Apr 25 2017, 09:53 PM Post #231 |
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So Labour have made the rights of EU citizens a first day priority. So stupid...Don't they realise this the whole reason many Labour voters voted Brexit in the first place? People want to know what a British government is going to do for its own people. This priority for citizens from other countries is just going to alienate them further. Duh. |
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| Tigger | Apr 25 2017, 10:26 PM Post #232 |
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I don't suppose most people have thought this through have they? We are still in the era of forrins bad England good, always remember that others can retaliate in kind, do you really want a few hundred thousand wingeing pensioners coming back to the UK from hot places and fucking up public services? |
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| Rich | Apr 25 2017, 11:00 PM Post #233 |
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Well, JB, as far as the thread title is concerned then it suits the Labour party to a "T" To offer to give away a negotiating position before negotiations have begun is madness. But as you say, Labour are more interested in foreigners and the EU than they are of the British taxpayer that pays their wages. Talk about mixed up and no map reading skills. |
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| Dan1989 | Apr 26 2017, 11:16 AM Post #234 |
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And this is the problem, we've got people like Tigger who automatically go on the attack against people who probably are annoyed about being let down, but class them as wrongdoers. But then you got Jessamy who's not giving of the right message, I would be willing to use this issue to our advantage, until either British citizens are left fine or it's advantageous for us to give assurances. Also to point out, the numbers already here is fucking up the public services, more people then able to look after. |
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| Tigger | Apr 26 2017, 07:34 PM Post #235 |
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I don't care any more. I help those I can and bollocks to the rest, and it might be an idea to check how many forrins work in public services, especially the NHS. I now want a rock hard Brexit with the EU comming down like a ton of bricks on the Tories and their fans, it really is the only language they understand, my hatches are battened down so why should I care? Almost sounded a bit Conservative there didn't I?
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| Dan1989 | Apr 26 2017, 08:12 PM Post #236 |
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Actually the numbers working in the NHS is relatively(keep that in mind) small, don't get me wrong it's a large number, but I was surprised how many are British - https://secondreading.uk/social-policy/one-nhs-many-nationalities-where-are-nhs-staff-from/ the large majority, a quite large number is British. Though London seems to have the largest number of EU workers. Well, this level of intransigence from all sides is probably why we got to this stage. But considering every party is mostly agreeing to keep those already here, I really don't see this fear of a great exodus, maybe some, but not to a level that would cause issue. Well, I am waiting for negotiation to get further, to see how the landscape forms, at this point we are all guessing. Edited by Dan1989, Apr 26 2017, 08:14 PM.
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| Tigger | Apr 27 2017, 09:21 AM Post #237 |
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Some guesswork was removed on Monday. Bloomberg managed to get it's hands on another "leaked" document that set out conditions for UK banks and financial service firms after Brexit.If we want to carry on trading in these services we will still need to be following EU rules at home as well as abroad and still be subject to EU courts regarding the activities involved in financial services, so no chance of a head office in London bending the rules if we want to continue with the lucrative EU market. Aimed squarely at the Tories biggest paymasters who will put pressure on the government. |
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| Steve K | Apr 27 2017, 09:39 AM Post #238 |
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And of course we'll have to actually follow those rules not have the exemptions we negotiated when in the EU. Tobin tax anyone? The 'pyrrhic' word looms again |
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| C-too | Apr 27 2017, 10:28 AM Post #239 |
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Here's another view at the problem. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/26/nhs-foreign-nationals-immigration-health-service |
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| Steve K | Apr 27 2017, 10:52 AM Post #240 |
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Once and future cynic
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Exactly EU immigrants are <5% of the population and 10% of doctors. Removing all would be an exercise in self harm as we'd have a net 5% extra load on our doctors (or more likely even more immigrant doctors from further afar). https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/ ![]() Edited by Steve K, Apr 27 2017, 11:08 AM.
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The Express is also reporting this and it's hilarious the way it's being spun! It's readers are very confused to say the least!
that set out conditions for UK banks and financial service firms after Brexit.

2:15 PM Jul 11