Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
The Brexit "Thank God We Left" thread
Topic Started: Apr 6 2017, 12:50 PM (1,451 Views)
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
I thought it might be amusing to have a thread discussing post-referendum EU policies and proposals that we may NOT have been happy about. (and rejoicing in the fact that we are no longer bound by them. )

This is a sort of complementary/counterpoint to Tiggers excellent "Brexit self-harm thread"
http://w11.zetaboards.com/UK_Debate_Mk_2/topic/30198195/4/#new

I'll set the ball rolling with this one, though strictly speaking it started just before the referendum.

Remember how the Remain camp assured us that we would have control over our own borders, and that the EU could not impose migration on us ? (Indeed, that was one of the planks of Camarons negotiations). That was referring to EU migration; obviously. The idea of the EU imposing non-EU migration would have been beyond the pale.

I'm sure I can recall comments that the UK ultimately had the abtility to deny people entrance if it was in the national interest, and hence retained sovereignty.

Well, the eastern-bloc countries would be laughing at THAT one. They are now facing both large fines, and possible expulsion from the EU, because they have refused a new "refugees quota" that the Commission is imposing on all EU states. You have to take in your "quota" of migrants (a quota set by the Commission), or face fines. Refuse to pay the fine, and you could be ejected ! And of course, recent history suggests that "Refugees" rarely leave, and become "Residents". So this is actually enforced immigration policy.

http://bbj.hu/politics/hungary-may-face-eu-quota-ultimatum-says-report_131096

So much for sovereignty of borders then ?
"Glad we're out" !moon!
Edited by RoofGardener, Apr 6 2017, 01:07 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Replies:
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 11:58 AM
Affa
Apr 9 2017, 10:47 AM
It might appear that those on the Remain side are anticipating economic decline with some relish, but it isn't so. I doubt there is one that would not be overjoyed were the UK to prosper post Brexit - we just think it very unlikely.

I also think this latent animosity towards those that opposed Leaving is alarming - because it reveal divisions. We are a divided nation because our State system encourages and in some instances creates divisions ...... it is how they maintain their control!

I have family members that voted Out - I still love them, and they me .......... the same must be true of lots of families. Don't fight when there is no prize to be won.
Yep well said

it's just fundamentally dishonest and somewhat malicious of the uber Outers to portray anyone that voted Remain as somehow supportive of everything the EU is and could have become.

I was a 'Remain for now' so that deal could have been given a chance. If it hadn't worked we'd just have gone back to the EU and said we tried it, now we have migration limits or we're out. The EU27 blinked once, they'd have blinked again.

Where Mr Pat gets his idea anyone of us is obsessed about GDP from I know not.
I'm struggling to get my head around that one SteveK. If someone voted to Remain, then surely they have to take responsibility for what subsequently happens as a consequence of remaining ?

In regards the specific thingy about Cameron's "deal".... what was your opinion about that ? Do you think he created a viable and relevant deal ?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Mr Pat
Apr 9 2017, 09:07 AM
Affa
Apr 9 2017, 08:44 AM
Mr Pat
Apr 8 2017, 10:27 PM
Remainers worry about GDP, when their monolith has imported terrorism and death, like some sort of vanity project.
Do I understand you correctly?
Being in the EU is responsible for Islamic terrorism and why we are no longer entirely safe at home?

I heard similar reasons for voting Out -one did so because of the organised sex abuse scandal in Rotherham. Immigration!

Why these people do not look to Westminster for the reason is probably because our media don't.
I'm using remainer logic here. If we voted out to the detriment of GDP, you voted in to the detriment of lives.

Which chancellor was shouting and ordering wilkomen on behalf of other nation states; in order to fakeugees, refugees, economic migrants and would be terrorists in?

We'll play that game again, here's the clue her surname begins with another ominous 'M'.

That would be under club EU remit and I see the tensions are still their with Hungary and other ex-E.bloc nations.

Do as you are told, or fuck offski!
There is a world agreement not an EU agreement, to allow refugees to seek refuge.

Edited by C-too, Apr 9 2017, 01:37 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Dan1989
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
C-too
Apr 9 2017, 01:36 PM
Mr Pat
Apr 9 2017, 09:07 AM
Affa
Apr 9 2017, 08:44 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I'm using remainer logic here. If we voted out to the detriment of GDP, you voted in to the detriment of lives.

Which chancellor was shouting and ordering wilkomen on behalf of other nation states; in order to fakeugees, refugees, economic migrants and would be terrorists in?

We'll play that game again, here's the clue her surname begins with another ominous 'M'.

That would be under club EU remit and I see the tensions are still their with Hungary and other ex-E.bloc nations.

Do as you are told, or fuck offski!
There is a world agreement not an EU agreement, to allow refugees to seek refuge.

And none of them are classed as refugees, aloud help from the nearest stable country and even those countries refused entry to the majority, once they go past stable countries they become economic migrants.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 11:58 AM
Affa
Apr 9 2017, 10:47 AM
It might appear that those on the Remain side are anticipating economic decline with some relish, but it isn't so. I doubt there is one that would not be overjoyed were the UK to prosper post Brexit - we just think it very unlikely.

I also think this latent animosity towards those that opposed Leaving is alarming - because it reveal divisions. We are a divided nation because our State system encourages and in some instances creates divisions ...... it is how they maintain their control!

I have family members that voted Out - I still love them, and they me .......... the same must be true of lots of families. Don't fight when there is no prize to be won.
Yep well said

it's just fundamentally dishonest and somewhat malicious of the uber Outers to portray anyone that voted Remain as somehow supportive of everything the EU is and could have become.

I was a 'Remain for now' so that deal could have been given a chance. If it hadn't worked we'd just have gone back to the EU and said we tried it, now we have migration limits or we're out. The EU27 blinked once, they'd have blinked again.

Where Mr Pat gets his idea anyone of us is obsessed about GDP from I know not.
I respect that you were a "remainer for now" but it cannot be denied that Cameron was treated with disdain when he went looking for compromises pre Referendum, the attitude shown then by the faceless beaurocrats told us all we needed to know.

Suffice to say, that anti referendum the faceless beaurocrats are now HAVING to do what they should have done when Cameron went begging......compromising and showing flexibility....it is what any happy family does to get along and survive.

Let's not forget.....THEY call the shots.....and we were well pissed off with the shots that they were calling.

Now the boot is on the other foot and we will see how flexible they are prepared to be and how overruled they will be when BIG European businesses have their say in the negotiations.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
That may be true C-too. However, the majority of the "refugees" in Europe are apparently not from war zones at all, but are economic migrants.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 01:46 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 11:58 AM
Affa
Apr 9 2017, 10:47 AM
It might appear that those on the Remain side are anticipating economic decline with some relish, but it isn't so. I doubt there is one that would not be overjoyed were the UK to prosper post Brexit - we just think it very unlikely.

I also think this latent animosity towards those that opposed Leaving is alarming - because it reveal divisions. We are a divided nation because our State system encourages and in some instances creates divisions ...... it is how they maintain their control!

I have family members that voted Out - I still love them, and they me .......... the same must be true of lots of families. Don't fight when there is no prize to be won.
Yep well said

it's just fundamentally dishonest and somewhat malicious of the uber Outers to portray anyone that voted Remain as somehow supportive of everything the EU is and could have become.

I was a 'Remain for now' so that deal could have been given a chance. If it hadn't worked we'd just have gone back to the EU and said we tried it, now we have migration limits or we're out. The EU27 blinked once, they'd have blinked again.

Where Mr Pat gets his idea anyone of us is obsessed about GDP from I know not.
I respect that you were a "remainer for now" but it cannot be denied that Cameron was treated with disdain when he went looking for compromises pre Referendum, the attitude shown then by the faceless beaurocrats told us all we needed to know.

Suffice to say, that anti referendum the faceless beaurocrats are now HAVING to do what they should have done when Cameron went begging......compromising and showing flexibility....it is what any happy family does to get along and survive.

Let's not forget.....THEY call the shots.....and we were well pissed off with the shots that they were calling.

Now the boot is on the other foot and we will see how flexible they are prepared to be and how overruled they will be when BIG European businesses have their say in the negotiations.
Cameron was no negotiator (and sadly it sees May isn't either)

He went in with a very public and very aggressive stance which was always going to get very public push back leading to less than the specific migration limits deal we wanted.

Given 'the deal' was disappointing he should have campaigned to the effect that if migration didn't fall he would go back in 2018 and demand more or else.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 01:55 PM
That may be true C-too. However, the majority of the "refugees" in Europe are apparently not from war zones at all, but are economic migrants.
Evidence please

The majority getting into the EU may not be from Syria but Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc are hardly what you or I would call at peace

Methinks you have fallen for one of Victor Orban's fibs.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Dan1989
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:08 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 01:55 PM
That may be true C-too. However, the majority of the "refugees" in Europe are apparently not from war zones at all, but are economic migrants.
Evidence please

The majority getting into the EU may not be from Syria but Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc are hardly what you or I would call at peace

Methinks you have fallen for one of Victor Orban's fibs.
Though I fully support him, even his populace for the most part seem to agree with him.

Except his silly idea about illiberal-democracy.

Eastern Europe is very anti-immigration ironic they take advantage of it within the EU.

Also he's right within the UN version, once you go past stable countries you become an economic migrant.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 9 2017, 02:18 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:08 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 01:55 PM
That may be true C-too. However, the majority of the "refugees" in Europe are apparently not from war zones at all, but are economic migrants.
Evidence please

The majority getting into the EU may not be from Syria but Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc are hardly what you or I would call at peace

Methinks you have fallen for one of Victor Orban's fibs.
Actually, it was Frans Timmermans, the former VP of the EU, in turn citing figures from Frontex (the EU external border agency).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12123684/Six-in-ten-migrants-not-entitled-to-asylum-says-EU-chief.html

As for Victor Orban, what have you got against the Prime Minister of Hungary ? He's a lovely chap apparently, despite having a name that sounds like a Bond villain !
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Dan1989
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 02:17 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:08 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 01:55 PM
That may be true C-too. However, the majority of the "refugees" in Europe are apparently not from war zones at all, but are economic migrants.
Evidence please

The majority getting into the EU may not be from Syria but Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc are hardly what you or I would call at peace

Methinks you have fallen for one of Victor Orban's fibs.
Actually, it was Frans Timmermans, the former VP of the EU, in turn citing figures from Frontex (the EU external border agency).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12123684/Six-in-ten-migrants-not-entitled-to-asylum-says-EU-chief.html

As for Victor Orban, what have you got against the Prime Minister of Hungary ? He's a lovely chap apparently, despite having a name that sounds like a Bond villain !
His stupid idea of Illiberal democracy, google it, it's dumb and wrong.

But in general he seems alright.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 02:17 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:08 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 01:55 PM
That may be true C-too. However, the majority of the "refugees" in Europe are apparently not from war zones at all, but are economic migrants.
Evidence please

The majority getting into the EU may not be from Syria but Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc are hardly what you or I would call at peace

Methinks you have fallen for one of Victor Orban's fibs.
Actually, it was Frans Timmermans, the former VP of the EU, in turn citing figures from Frontex (the EU external border agency).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12123684/Six-in-ten-migrants-not-entitled-to-asylum-says-EU-chief.html

As for Victor Orban, what have you got against the Prime Minister of Hungary ? He's a lovely chap apparently, despite having a name that sounds like a Bond villain !
You invite him to your soirees then, to me he's a would be communist dictator milking the EU and him and his country should have been slung out of Europe ages ago.

But to the point at hand I accept you made your comment in good faith but just because someone has no right of asylum does not mean they are from a peaceful country.

Have an interesting chart

Posted Image

From this article not long before yours http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/09/economist-explains-4



Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Most interesting. It seems that the Economist analysis contradicts that of the EU external border agency. So who do we believe ? (either that, or something changed radically between September 2015- when the Economist published its article - and January 2016, when the Telegraph published theirs.)

Either way, we're well out of it !!===
Edited by RoofGardener, Apr 9 2017, 03:01 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:36 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 02:17 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:08 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Actually, it was Frans Timmermans, the former VP of the EU, in turn citing figures from Frontex (the EU external border agency).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12123684/Six-in-ten-migrants-not-entitled-to-asylum-says-EU-chief.html

As for Victor Orban, what have you got against the Prime Minister of Hungary ? He's a lovely chap apparently, despite having a name that sounds like a Bond villain !
You invite him to your soirees then, to me he's a would be communist dictator milking the EU and him and his country should have been slung out of Europe ages ago.

But to the point at hand I accept you made your comment in good faith but just because someone has no right of asylum does not mean they are from a peaceful country.

Have an interesting chart

Posted Image

From this article not long before yours http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/09/economist-explains-4




That link hardly supports what we have read previously.
Am I mistaken to believe that the majority are young men?
That they Include Turks, Pakistanis, and from other countries not on that list?

The religion of peace certainly doesn't offer protection to those it has different beliefs to!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:01 PM
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 01:46 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 11:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I respect that you were a "remainer for now" but it cannot be denied that Cameron was treated with disdain when he went looking for compromises pre Referendum, the attitude shown then by the faceless beaurocrats told us all we needed to know.

Suffice to say, that anti referendum the faceless beaurocrats are now HAVING to do what they should have done when Cameron went begging......compromising and showing flexibility....it is what any happy family does to get along and survive.

Let's not forget.....THEY call the shots.....and we were well pissed off with the shots that they were calling.

Now the boot is on the other foot and we will see how flexible they are prepared to be and how overruled they will be when BIG European businesses have their say in the negotiations.
Cameron was no negotiator (and sadly it sees May isn't either)

He went in with a very public and very aggressive stance which was always going to get very public push back leading to less than the specific migration limits deal we wanted.

Given 'the deal' was disappointing he should have campaigned to the effect that if migration didn't fall he would go back in 2018 and demand more or else.
From what I can gather, it is not those that want to trade with the EU that are the problem.

It does seem to me to be the intransigent EU negotiators that will not see pragmatism and reality and I am not only referring to the UK here, this globe has limitations sizewize and whoever it is does not matter.....but the fact is that we HAVE to deal with one another.....there is nowhere else to go to.......FACT.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 03:17 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:01 PM
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 01:46 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Cameron was no negotiator (and sadly it sees May isn't either)

He went in with a very public and very aggressive stance which was always going to get very public push back leading to less than the specific migration limits deal we wanted.

Given 'the deal' was disappointing he should have campaigned to the effect that if migration didn't fall he would go back in 2018 and demand more or else.
From what I can gather, it is not those that want to trade with the EU that are the problem.

It does seem to me to be the intransigent EU negotiators that will not see pragmatism and reality and I am not only referring to the UK here, this globe has limitations sizewize and whoever it is does not matter.....but the fact is that we HAVE to deal with one another.....there is nowhere else to go to.......FACT.
"we HAVE to deal with one another"  ::)

Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.

Sound familiar? If not just look outside your window

This government needs to get some humility and fast if it really does care about the country. Of course that means telling the truth that making Brexit tolerably survivable is the real message. Unless of course you're someone whose friends make money outsourcing jobs to third world countries. They'll do very nicely for long enough to make their mint to retire on - far away from here

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Dan1989
Apr 9 2017, 01:46 PM
C-too
Apr 9 2017, 01:36 PM
Mr Pat
Apr 9 2017, 09:07 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There is a world agreement not an EU agreement, to allow refugees to seek refuge.
And none of them are classed as refugees, aloud help from the nearest stable country and even those countries refused entry to the majority, once they go past stable countries they become economic migrants.
I would think that no one or even two countries could have accommodated the flood of refugees, so while you will be correct in some circumstances it is obvious the an overflow would and did occur, and the genuine asylum seekers who did overflow, were still asylum seekers.

Even so, my post was about the fact that it was not an EU condition that refugees should be allowed in.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 04:02 PM
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 03:17 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 02:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
From what I can gather, it is not those that want to trade with the EU that are the problem.

It does seem to me to be the intransigent EU negotiators that will not see pragmatism and reality and I am not only referring to the UK here, this globe has limitations sizewize and whoever it is does not matter.....but the fact is that we HAVE to deal with one another.....there is nowhere else to go to.......FACT.
"we HAVE to deal with one another"  ::)

Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.

Sound familiar? If not just look outside your window

This government needs to get some humility and fast if it really does care about the country. Of course that means telling the truth that making Brexit tolerably survivable is the real message. Unless of course you're someone whose friends make money outsourcing jobs to third world countries. They'll do very nicely for long enough to make their mint to retire on - far away from here

Your description of your own country also rings very true of Germany.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 04:02 PM
...

Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.

Sound familiar? If not just look outside your window

...
Is that truly how you view Great Britain ?  :(
Edited by RoofGardener, Apr 9 2017, 05:48 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 05:47 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 04:02 PM
...

Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.

Sound familiar? If not just look outside your window

...
Is that truly how you view Great Britain ?  :(
It's how others see us.

Britain is a great country, truly the best in the world for me but our attitude to foreigners and our behaviours beyond our borders are far too often very poor indeed - especially in Europe today and the far East historically.

And I see no one can point out any resource we have that the world needs yet somehow we're supposed to believe others will be falling over backwards to give us good deals.

Tell you what, I'll name you a resource we have the world will happily want: trained medical professionals but hey ho we need them more and they'll give us nothing for what they can take for free.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
johnofgwent
Apr 8 2017, 10:35 PM
Curious Cdn
Apr 8 2017, 05:10 PM
This is interesting.

Make a list of all of the benefits that have flooded in to you because of Brexit.

Show us how your lifes have benefitted., so far. Where's the magic?
well ...

Tigger will really hate me for this but the fact is, since the referendum I have seen a significant INCREASE in emails asking me if i am looking for work and offering me contracts at a higher rate.

I can only assume the hordes who flooded here to nick my work from me have pissed off home.
Go for it then, I'm all for people bettering themselves!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Good things since we left?

Well posts here using IDIOT FONTS for no purpose seem to have declined

I'll get me coat
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 12:05 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 09:25 AM
So it should be so easy for you to name one terrorist incident in the UK that was perpetrated by someone admitted to the UK because of EU rules

Go on then, name one
I might be able to help here. An act of destructive terrorism carried out by somebody allowed into the UK under EU rules ?

How about... the Maastricht Treaty , by Jacques Delors ?  !bgrin!

OK... ok... sorry.. couldn't resist.

On a more serious note, surely it is wise to stop them getting in BEFORE they butcher British citizens ? For certain the Paris attrocity was committed by Islamists who entered (or 're-entered') Europe as refugees. Several of them had French or Dutch nationality, but had gone to Syria to fight for ISIS. They subsequently took advantage of the migrant horde as a disguise to get back IN to Europe (without alerting Interpol), and thence took advantage of Shengen to get into France (once more without alerting the various security services).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/02/majority-of-paris-attackers-used-migration-routes-to-enter-europ/
Hold on a minute this is a false flag, May has already said we will need to carry on importing labour, which roughly translates to we have built an economy based not on skills or productivity but more and more people consuming more goods and services, and 70 retarded right wing Tories want to get more Commonwealth citizens in, and as we all know the Commonwealth is mainly brown and has funny customs!

We'll have a more cosmopolitan range of evil doers. :)
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 09:54 PM
Good things since we left?

Well posts here using IDIOT FONTS for no purpose seem to have declined

I'll get me coat
For some reason I thought of Swindon when I saw this post? :rubchin:
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 04:59 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 04:02 PM
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 03:17 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
"we HAVE to deal with one another"  ::)

Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.

Sound familiar? If not just look outside your window

This government needs to get some humility and fast if it really does care about the country. Of course that means telling the truth that making Brexit tolerably survivable is the real message. Unless of course you're someone whose friends make money outsourcing jobs to third world countries. They'll do very nicely for long enough to make their mint to retire on - far away from here

Your description of your own country also rings very true of Germany.
I thought you were going to say Tony Blair!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mr Pat
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 12:09 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 11:58 AM
Affa
Apr 9 2017, 10:47 AM
It might appear that those on the Remain side are anticipating economic decline with some relish, but it isn't so. I doubt there is one that would not be overjoyed were the UK to prosper post Brexit - we just think it very unlikely.

I also think this latent animosity towards those that opposed Leaving is alarming - because it reveal divisions. We are a divided nation because our State system encourages and in some instances creates divisions ...... it is how they maintain their control!

I have family members that voted Out - I still love them, and they me .......... the same must be true of lots of families. Don't fight when there is no prize to be won.
Yep well said

it's just fundamentally dishonest and somewhat malicious of the uber Outers to portray anyone that voted Remain as somehow supportive of everything the EU is and could have become.

I was a 'Remain for now' so that deal could have been given a chance. If it hadn't worked we'd just have gone back to the EU and said we tried it, now we have migration limits or we're out. The EU27 blinked once, they'd have blinked again.

Where Mr Pat gets his idea anyone of us is obsessed about GDP from I know not.
I'm struggling to get my head around that one SteveK. If someone voted to Remain, then surely they have to take responsibility for what subsequently happens as a consequence of remaining ?

In regards the specific thingy about Cameron's "deal".... what was your opinion about that ? Do you think he created a viable and relevant deal ?
He swerved that.

Can't think why.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Apr 9 2017, 03:17 PM


It does seem to me to be the intransigent EU negotiators that will not see pragmatism and reality and I am not only referring to the UK here, this globe has limitations sizewize and whoever it is does not matter.....but the fact is that we HAVE to deal with one another.....there is nowhere else to go to.......FACT.

I think the EU is being entirely pragmatic!
In fact when it comes to trade agreements (with any body) pragmatism rules the day ........ everyone tries for the best terms 'for themselves'. Expecting favours out of some sort of loyalty or historic relationship just doesn't come into it - (same with UK/US). Business has no sentiment, and big business generally has the opposite sensibility - use you or ruin you.

Bexit is on Outers - to use Pat's term - Own it!
In fact if you voted Conservative in 2015 - Own it! Brexit is on You!

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Mr Pat
Apr 9 2017, 11:47 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 12:09 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 11:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I'm struggling to get my head around that one SteveK. If someone voted to Remain, then surely they have to take responsibility for what subsequently happens as a consequence of remaining ?

In regards the specific thingy about Cameron's "deal".... what was your opinion about that ? Do you think he created a viable and relevant deal ?
He swerved that.

Can't think why.
I swerved nothing having answered that supposed point above in post 46. Do stop your trolling, if nothing else as it betrays that you know your supposed case is weak?

.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mr Pat
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 10 2017, 08:50 AM
Mr Pat
Apr 9 2017, 11:47 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 12:09 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
He swerved that.

Can't think why.
I swerved nothing having answered that supposed point above in post 46. Do stop your trolling, if nothing else as it betrays that you know your supposed case is weak?

.
It's not a case I have.

It's an opinion. And you completely swerved it.

Just as we're told Brexit and any negative repercussions from that are at the hands of Leave voters and their decisions; by the same token, any subsequent repercussions of adverse affects in EU land are at the hands of In voters.

So, I suggest you shut it and stop with the personal allegations of trolling just because somebodies opinion doesn't suit your position.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Mr Pat
Apr 10 2017, 09:30 AM


Just as we're told Brexit and any negative repercussions from that are at the hands of Leave voters and their decisions; by the same token, any subsequent repercussions of adverse affects in EU land are at the hands of In voters.

Is there an explanation for way the eventual exit terms are agreed, and any adverse consequences, to be laid at the feet of those that voted to Remain in the EU?
For the life of me I can't see how or why!
Edited by Affa, Apr 10 2017, 02:01 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 04:02 PM
...
Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.
...
That is FAR from the truth SteveK.

Resources - in the sense of physical materials.... traditional "commodities" .. has been dying since the Empire fell. We have something much more valuable and tradeable to offer; Knowledge and expertise.

Thanks to Blair and Brown's foresight, we have the largest per-capita pool of graduates in Media and TransGender Identity Studies in the northern hemisphere.

These are highly exportable modern 'commodities'.

Indeed, I recommend we start exporting them as soon as possible !  !bgrin!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Mr Pat
Apr 10 2017, 09:30 AM
Steve K
Apr 10 2017, 08:50 AM
Mr Pat
Apr 9 2017, 11:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I swerved nothing having answered that supposed point above in post 46. Do stop your trolling, if nothing else as it betrays that you know your supposed case is weak?

.
It's not a case I have.

It's an opinion. And you completely swerved it.

Just as we're told Brexit and any negative repercussions from that are at the hands of Leave voters and their decisions; by the same token, any subsequent repercussions of adverse affects in EU land are at the hands of In voters.

So, I suggest you shut it and stop with the personal allegations of trolling just because somebodies opinion doesn't suit your position.
Well stop your trolling then and I won't call it out.

Seeing as how it seems you need answers rewritten as simply as possible

RG asked: "If someone voted to Remain, then surely they have to take responsibility for what subsequently happens as a consequence of remaining ? "

My answer: yes to a reasonable extent[1]

RG asked: "Cameron's "deal".... what was your opinion about that ? Do you think he created a viable and relevant deal ?"

My answer: yes, because it was a thin end of a wedge deal


[1] EG if some uber Outer had run amok in anger and committed crimes, the Remainers would not have been responsible for that
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 10 2017, 04:07 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 04:02 PM
...
Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.
...
That is FAR from the truth SteveK.

Resources - in the sense of physical materials.... traditional "commodities" .. has been dying since the Empire fell. We have something much more valuable and tradeable to offer; Knowledge and expertise. . .
So you carefully ignore my expansion of that answer and present an expansion of the omitted part as if it was your new ideas. /S:

here it is again:
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 09:25 PM
. . .Tell you what, I'll name you a resource we have the world will happily want: trained medical professionals but hey ho we need them more and they'll give us nothing for what they can take for free.


We need bright people employed in the UK, paying taxes here, creating wealth here, creating other jobs here and seems you want to celebrate a likely brain drain that benefits other countries.

:nono: :nono: :nono:



Edited by Steve K, Apr 10 2017, 04:21 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Umm... it WAS supposed to be tongue-in-cheek SteveK ? (hence the reference to graduates in Media and Transgender Identity Studies as a marketable 'resource').

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Whatever

RoofGardener
Apr 9 2017, 12:09 PM
. . .If someone voted to Remain, then surely they have to take responsibility for what subsequently happens as a consequence of remaining ?


So if someone voted to Leave, then surely in your book they have to take responsibility for what subsequently happens as a consequence of leaving ?

Not in my book but what is your position?



Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well, within reason, YES. Providing that the 'consequence' was related, and reasonably possible to predict.

I mean, if a meteorite hit London, (or Brussels), then we could hardly ask the respective Leave/Remain supporters to take responsibility for it.

If I vote for a politician who publicly supports a ban on salted fish, and that politician becomes PM as a result, then I CAN be held (partially) responsible for a subsequent Herring Famine in the UK.

On the other hand, if aforementioned politician - once in power - does something entirely unpredictable, uncharacteristic, and that was not hinted at in advance, then I can hardly be held responsible.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 10 2017, 04:19 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 10 2017, 04:07 PM
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 04:02 PM
...
Unfortunately the world very much has room for one Billy No Mates. A country with a history of acting superior, of being rude to other countries most recently with an arse of a Foreign Secretary, being hideously in debt, a reputation for sending drunken yobs to Europe for holidays and having absolutely no resources the world needs.
...
That is FAR from the truth SteveK.

Resources - in the sense of physical materials.... traditional "commodities" .. has been dying since the Empire fell. We have something much more valuable and tradeable to offer; Knowledge and expertise. . .
So you carefully ignore my expansion of that answer and present an expansion of the omitted part as if it was your new ideas. /S:

here it is again:
Steve K
Apr 9 2017, 09:25 PM
. . .Tell you what, I'll name you a resource we have the world will happily want: trained medical professionals but hey ho we need them more and they'll give us nothing for what they can take for free.


We need bright people employed in the UK, paying taxes here, creating wealth here, creating other jobs here and seems you want to celebrate a likely brain drain that benefits other countries.

:nono: :nono: :nono:



I would add further, the UK is more than capable of lowering the standards of University degrees and I would say that we are importing our own "brain drain" and it seems that universities chasing ever more monies are turning a blind eye to this.

Why do I say this, well, I listened to a prog on R4 yesterday evening regarding cheating students who cannot be bothered or are just not capable of formulating a thesis or dissertation/essay themselves and pay out very good money to have someone else do it for them and these people openly advertise their services.

Have a listen yourself if you feel so inclined to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08kv5fd#play
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 10 2017, 04:22 PM
Umm... it WAS supposed to be tongue-in-cheek SteveK ? (hence the reference to graduates in Media and Transgender Identity Studies as a marketable 'resource').


It was homophobic and Blair hate!
What else was conveyed? Nothing!
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Mr Pat
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
Steve K
Apr 10 2017, 04:10 PM
Mr Pat
Apr 10 2017, 09:30 AM
Steve K
Apr 10 2017, 08:50 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's not a case I have.

It's an opinion. And you completely swerved it.

Just as we're told Brexit and any negative repercussions from that are at the hands of Leave voters and their decisions; by the same token, any subsequent repercussions of adverse affects in EU land are at the hands of In voters.

So, I suggest you shut it and stop with the personal allegations of trolling just because somebodies opinion doesn't suit your position.
Well stop your trolling then and I won't call it out.

Seeing as how it seems you need answers rewritten as simply as possible

RG asked: "If someone voted to Remain, then surely they have to take responsibility for what subsequently happens as a consequence of remaining ? "

My answer: yes to a reasonable extent[1]

RG asked: "Cameron's "deal".... what was your opinion about that ? Do you think he created a viable and relevant deal ?"

My answer: yes, because it was a thin end of a wedge deal

Well, in post 46 you didn't actually answer this but now you have:

"My answer: yes to a reasonable extent"

I'm glad we cleared that up.

1 Briton died in the Stockholm attack. Put's things into perspective when the obsessed remainers talk about money and bean counting.


[1] EG if some uber Outer had run amok in anger and committed crimes, the Remainers would not have been responsible for that
Edited by Mr Pat, Apr 11 2017, 07:38 AM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RoofGardener
Member Avatar
Lord of Plantpots
[ *  *  *  * ]
Affa
Apr 10 2017, 05:46 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 10 2017, 04:22 PM
Umm... it WAS supposed to be tongue-in-cheek SteveK ? (hence the reference to graduates in Media and Transgender Identity Studies as a marketable 'resource').


It was homophobic and Blair hate!
What else was conveyed? Nothing!
Homophobic ? No it wasn't; it doesn't make any reference to homosexuals.

Blair Hate ? Really ? Is that a "thing" now ? I mean.. Tony Blair has been hated for a long time, but I didn't realise it had been given it's own neologism ?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RoofGardener
Apr 11 2017, 10:43 AM
Affa
Apr 10 2017, 05:46 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 10 2017, 04:22 PM
Umm... it WAS supposed to be tongue-in-cheek SteveK ? (hence the reference to graduates in Media and Transgender Identity Studies as a marketable 'resource').


It was homophobic and Blair hate!
What else was conveyed? Nothing!
Homophobic ? No it wasn't; it doesn't make any reference to homosexuals.

Blair Hate ? Really ? Is that a "thing" now ? I mean.. Tony Blair has been hated for a long time, but I didn't realise it had been given it's own neologism ?

What did you intend to convey in that post that I missed and or misinterpreted as Homophobia and Blair hate?
It's up to you to respond or not, I really don't care.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Europe · Next Topic »
Locked Topic