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The who invented Curry Thread; from Canals, Pujab
Topic Started: Apr 14 2017, 08:37 AM (135 Views)
Dan1989
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Tigger
Apr 13 2017, 10:39 PM
Dan1989
Apr 13 2017, 08:28 PM
Then you don't converse with enough Indians, there's a growing nationalist movement which likes to remind everyone about the British Empire, but like most people understand you can not blame the children for their fathers actions and in this case great-great-grandfathers, give or take a generation.






I expect you visited a curry house once hence the claims, however as touched upon in the book I mentioned earlier the majority of Indians do not spend much time in blaming others for past problems, unlike here and especially over the border in China which is a specialist in dragging up past misdeeds against it, and while there is an Indian style UKIP party it is not the choice of most of the Indian middle classes who are carrying the nation forward.
You do realise curry is a British invention?

But no, I met many in education and travels and the younger generations are very nationalistic, also their current leader is a nationalist, also the lower castes far outnumber the middle class.

As I said it isn't us they need to worry about, it's China, which will make a power play at some point in the future you can already see the early signs with the Southern Sea incident.

I really don't get this idea that we blame things for the past, well maybe CToo does with Thatcher, but most people I know concentrate on the now, you must hang around a lot of British Empire sympathises, but you are of an older generation and most of those people were around when the British empire existed.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 14 2017, 08:38 AM.
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Tigger
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 08:37 AM
You do realise curry is a British invention?


Do you actually bother to check anything before you blurt it out? Perhaps you've watched far too many episodes of Goodness Gracious Me! ;D

Tikka masala was "invented" in the UK to cater for British tastes, perhaps that is where your confusion stems from. but curries were being made in the sub continent and beyond long before we ever set foot there.
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Dan1989
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Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 09:52 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 08:37 AM
You do realise curry is a British invention?


Do you actually bother to check anything before you blurt it out? Perhaps you've watched far too many episodes of Goodness Gracious Me! ;D

Tikka masala was "invented" in the UK to cater for British tastes, perhaps that is where your confusion stems from. but curries were being made in the sub continent and beyond long before we ever set foot there.
The Oxford English Dictionary found a quotation dating back to 1598, but credits the word's derivation to earlier forms from the Indian subcontinent:
Etymology: < Tamil kari sauce, relish for rice, Kannada karil, whence Portuguese caril, and earlier English and French forms; modern French is cari.

■ 1598 W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies i. xlviii. 88/2 Most of their fish is eaten with rice, which they seeth in broth which they put upon the rice, and is somewhat sowre..but it tasteth well, and is called Carriil.
■ 1681 R. Knox Hist. Relation Ceylon 12 They..boyl them [fruits] to make Carrees, to use the Portuguez word, that is somewhat to eat with and relish their Rice.
■ 1747 H. Glasse Art of Cookery 52 To make a Currey the India way.
■ 1757 J. H. Grose Voy. E.-Indies x. 241 The currees are infinitely various, being a sort of fricacees, to eat with rice, made of any animals or vegetables.
■ 1848 Thackeray Lett., If you can come to dinner, there's a curry.
■ 1891 Sharman Fam. Cookery 16 Pour the curry on the dish with the rice.

tl/dr version:
The English invented the word curry and the concept of a spicy sauce for meat and/or vegetables, to be eaten with or over rice, taking it from earlier South Asian words and dishes. As Aniruddha Banerjee answered, "The irony is that the English-speaking Indians use the word "Curry" for Indian dishes that they have forgotten the original name of."

I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British version.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 14 2017, 10:02 AM.
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Rich
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 09:58 AM
Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 09:52 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 08:37 AM
You do realise curry is a British invention?


Do you actually bother to check anything before you blurt it out? Perhaps you've watched far too many episodes of Goodness Gracious Me! ;D

Tikka masala was "invented" in the UK to cater for British tastes, perhaps that is where your confusion stems from. but curries were being made in the sub continent and beyond long before we ever set foot there.
The Oxford English Dictionary found a quotation dating back to 1598, but credits the word's derivation to earlier forms from the Indian subcontinent:
Etymology: < Tamil kari sauce, relish for rice, Kannada karil, whence Portuguese caril, and earlier English and French forms; modern French is cari.

■ 1598 W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies i. xlviii. 88/2 Most of their fish is eaten with rice, which they seeth in broth which they put upon the rice, and is somewhat sowre..but it tasteth well, and is called Carriil.
■ 1681 R. Knox Hist. Relation Ceylon 12 They..boyl them [fruits] to make Carrees, to use the Portuguez word, that is somewhat to eat with and relish their Rice.
■ 1747 H. Glasse Art of Cookery 52 To make a Currey the India way.
■ 1757 J. H. Grose Voy. E.-Indies x. 241 The currees are infinitely various, being a sort of fricacees, to eat with rice, made of any animals or vegetables.
■ 1848 Thackeray Lett., If you can come to dinner, there's a curry.
■ 1891 Sharman Fam. Cookery 16 Pour the curry on the dish with the rice.

tl/dr version:
The English invented the word curry and the concept of a spicy sauce for meat and/or vegetables, to be eaten with or over rice, taking it from earlier South Asian words and dishes. As Aniruddha Banerjee answered, "The irony is that the English-speaking Indians use the word "Curry" for Indian dishes that they have forgotten the original name of."

I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British invention.
I have always understood that curry was invented by the Brits for a reason......when meat was shipped over to the Raj Empire, by the time it got there it was not exactly in it's "best by date" so they used spices and other things in order to cover any bad odours or the like.

Anyway, that may be a load of old "bollocks" if you like ;D but that is what I was told by a person who I believed, he was my FiL (RIP) who was an RSM in the Royal Hampshires Regiment.
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Tigger
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 09:58 AM


I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British version.
:facepalm:

So basically and despite the lenghty waffling you now know that your claim that curry was a "British invention" is in actual fact bollocks?

Still thanks to me correcting you you have at least looked it up and corrected your previous shoot from the lip drivel..........
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Tigger
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Rich
Apr 14 2017, 10:08 AM
I have always understood that curry was invented by the Brits for a reason......
:facepalm:

It's to much sometimes isn't it? If only books and the internet could be invented! ;D
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Dan1989
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Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 10:18 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 09:58 AM


I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British version.
:facepalm:

So basically and despite the lenghty waffling you now know that your claim that curry was a "British invention" is in actual fact bollocks?

Still thanks to me correcting you you have at least looked it up and corrected your previous shoot from the lip drivel..........
Pathetic, I show you are mistaken on the word curry and how it's cooked to our standard and you still make a arse out yourself.

You could have just said, alright you meant curry, not the original dishes it was inspired from, but you are too arrogant to admit that, I really don't understand why the mods let you get away with your insulting manner, normally the biggest offender.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 14 2017, 10:25 AM.
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Rich
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 10:23 AM
Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 10:18 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 09:58 AM


I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British version.
:facepalm:

So basically and despite the lenghty waffling you now know that your claim that curry was a "British invention" is in actual fact bollocks?

Still thanks to me correcting you you have at least looked it up and corrected your previous shoot from the lip drivel..........
Pathetic, I show you are mistaken on the word curry and how it's cooked to our standard and you still make a arse out yourself.

You could have just said, alright you meant curry, not the original dishes it was inspired from, but you are too arrogant to admit that, I really don't understand why the mods let you get away with your insulting manner, normally the biggest offender.
Me too Dan, that is why I took my own action. ;-)
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Tigger
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 10:23 AM
Pathetic, I show you are mistaken on the word curry and how it's cooked to our standard and you still make a arse out yourself.



Jesus wept! :facepalm:

You are starting to believe your own nonsense now, I made no claims about the etymology of the word curry, if you go back and read properly it's clear I was specifically talking about the food itself which is CLEARLY NOT A BRITISH INVENTION!

Think and read before you reply, not to much to ask is it? :)
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Dan1989
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Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 10:29 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 10:23 AM
Pathetic, I show you are mistaken on the word curry and how it's cooked to our standard and you still make a arse out yourself.



Jesus wept! :facepalm:

You are starting to believe your own nonsense now, I made no claims about the etymology of the word curry, if you go back and read properly it's clear I was specifically talking about the food itself which is CLEARLY NOT A BRITISH INVENTION!

Think and read before you reply, not to much to ask is it? :)
As you clearly see I am talking about the word curry, did I mention the food is was inspired from, no I didn't, you just thought you be a smarty-pants.

As many of the dishes currently used are of British design, there aren't many original India dishes cooked here.

But you are too arrogant to admit you jumped to conclusions.

"You do realise curry is a British invention?", wasn't talking about the food itself, but the word, you could have just asked for clarification, instead of being an arse.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 14 2017, 10:39 AM.
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Tigger
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 10:33 AM
As you clearly see I am talking about the word curry,

Yes I can see you threw in a diversion in an attempt to cover up your false claim, but you know now, thanks to me that, and here we go again, that curry is not a British invention!

What next from you? Sir Walter Rayleigh invented the spud during the Spanish Armada to feed boys operating cannons? ;D
Edited by Tigger, Apr 14 2017, 10:39 AM.
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Dan1989
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Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 10:38 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 10:33 AM
As you clearly see I am talking about the word curry,

Yes I can see you threw in a diversion in an attempt to cover up your false claim, but you know now, thanks to me that , here we go again, that curry is not a British invention!

What next from you? Sir Walter Rayleigh invented the spud during the Spanish Armada to feed boys operating cannons? ;D
See, still too arrogant, you shouldn't assume people's meaning, you should ask for clarification, which is the right thing to do.

The word curry is a British invention and many dishes after we discovered it are of British design, but that doesn't matter, because I was talking about the word.

Most Indians wouldn't use the word curry.

I didn't once allude to the food aspect in the original post, not once, you assumed, which is the mother of all fuck-ups.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 14 2017, 10:43 AM.
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Tigger
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I don't suppose you know the Hindi word for spade, do you? ;D
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Dan1989
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Apr 14 2017, 10:48 AM
I don't suppose you know the Hindi word for spade, do you? ;D
Might want to find the word for arrogantly assuming someone else's meaning.
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C-too
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 09:58 AM
Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 09:52 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 08:37 AM
You do realise curry is a British invention?


Do you actually bother to check anything before you blurt it out? Perhaps you've watched far too many episodes of Goodness Gracious Me! ;D

Tikka masala was "invented" in the UK to cater for British tastes, perhaps that is where your confusion stems from. but curries were being made in the sub continent and beyond long before we ever set foot there.
The Oxford English Dictionary found a quotation dating back to 1598, but credits the word's derivation to earlier forms from the Indian subcontinent:
Etymology: < Tamil kari sauce, relish for rice, Kannada karil, whence Portuguese caril, and earlier English and French forms; modern French is cari.

■ 1598 W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies i. xlviii. 88/2 Most of their fish is eaten with rice, which they seeth in broth which they put upon the rice, and is somewhat sowre..but it tasteth well, and is called Carriil.
■ 1681 R. Knox Hist. Relation Ceylon 12 They..boyl them [fruits] to make Carrees, to use the Portuguez word, that is somewhat to eat with and relish their Rice.
■ 1747 H. Glasse Art of Cookery 52 To make a Currey the India way.
■ 1757 J. H. Grose Voy. E.-Indies x. 241 The currees are infinitely various, being a sort of fricacees, to eat with rice, made of any animals or vegetables.
■ 1848 Thackeray Lett., If you can come to dinner, there's a curry.
■ 1891 Sharman Fam. Cookery 16 Pour the curry on the dish with the rice.

tl/dr version:
The English invented the word curry and the concept of a spicy sauce for meat and/or vegetables, to be eaten with or over rice, taking it from earlier South Asian words and dishes. As Aniruddha Banerjee answered, "The irony is that the English-speaking Indians use the word "Curry" for Indian dishes that they have forgotten the original name of."

I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British version.
We even export the British version to India!
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Dan1989
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C-too
Apr 14 2017, 10:53 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 09:58 AM
Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 09:52 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The Oxford English Dictionary found a quotation dating back to 1598, but credits the word's derivation to earlier forms from the Indian subcontinent:
Etymology: < Tamil kari sauce, relish for rice, Kannada karil, whence Portuguese caril, and earlier English and French forms; modern French is cari.

■ 1598 W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies i. xlviii. 88/2 Most of their fish is eaten with rice, which they seeth in broth which they put upon the rice, and is somewhat sowre..but it tasteth well, and is called Carriil.
■ 1681 R. Knox Hist. Relation Ceylon 12 They..boyl them [fruits] to make Carrees, to use the Portuguez word, that is somewhat to eat with and relish their Rice.
■ 1747 H. Glasse Art of Cookery 52 To make a Currey the India way.
■ 1757 J. H. Grose Voy. E.-Indies x. 241 The currees are infinitely various, being a sort of fricacees, to eat with rice, made of any animals or vegetables.
■ 1848 Thackeray Lett., If you can come to dinner, there's a curry.
■ 1891 Sharman Fam. Cookery 16 Pour the curry on the dish with the rice.

tl/dr version:
The English invented the word curry and the concept of a spicy sauce for meat and/or vegetables, to be eaten with or over rice, taking it from earlier South Asian words and dishes. As Aniruddha Banerjee answered, "The irony is that the English-speaking Indians use the word "Curry" for Indian dishes that they have forgotten the original name of."

I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British version.
We even export the British version to India!
Don't try, mister smarty-pants with his psychic abilities somehow know what I meant, it seems such nuance and me using the word CURRY is too much for him.
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Steve K
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 08:37 AM
You do realise curry is a British invention? . .
Nah

Invented in India many years BC, we gave it a British nomenclature. To say we invented it would be like saying we invented the Wheel as the Polish/Mesopotamians (take your pick) didn't use that word
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Steve K
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Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 10:23 AM
I really don't understand why the mods let you get away with your insulting manner, normally the biggest offender.
!mod-s! do we? Please explain how you believe you have hacked the system to access another poster's warnings record etc.

Or perhaps stop guessing and breaking rule 13 by seeking to undermine moderation with false accusations

If you see a post or series of posts that you believe break the rules then use the report button or PM an active mod.

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johnofgwent
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Rich
Apr 14 2017, 10:08 AM
Dan1989
Apr 14 2017, 09:58 AM
Tigger
Apr 14 2017, 09:52 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The Oxford English Dictionary found a quotation dating back to 1598, but credits the word's derivation to earlier forms from the Indian subcontinent:
Etymology: < Tamil kari sauce, relish for rice, Kannada karil, whence Portuguese caril, and earlier English and French forms; modern French is cari.

■ 1598 W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies i. xlviii. 88/2 Most of their fish is eaten with rice, which they seeth in broth which they put upon the rice, and is somewhat sowre..but it tasteth well, and is called Carriil.
■ 1681 R. Knox Hist. Relation Ceylon 12 They..boyl them [fruits] to make Carrees, to use the Portuguez word, that is somewhat to eat with and relish their Rice.
■ 1747 H. Glasse Art of Cookery 52 To make a Currey the India way.
■ 1757 J. H. Grose Voy. E.-Indies x. 241 The currees are infinitely various, being a sort of fricacees, to eat with rice, made of any animals or vegetables.
■ 1848 Thackeray Lett., If you can come to dinner, there's a curry.
■ 1891 Sharman Fam. Cookery 16 Pour the curry on the dish with the rice.

tl/dr version:
The English invented the word curry and the concept of a spicy sauce for meat and/or vegetables, to be eaten with or over rice, taking it from earlier South Asian words and dishes. As Aniruddha Banerjee answered, "The irony is that the English-speaking Indians use the word "Curry" for Indian dishes that they have forgotten the original name of."

I am not saying it isn't a derivative, but it isn't purely from India, what we call curry is a British invention.
I have always understood that curry was invented by the Brits for a reason......when meat was shipped over to the Raj Empire, by the time it got there it was not exactly in it's "best by date" so they used spices and other things in order to cover any bad odours or the like.

Anyway, that may be a load of old "bollocks" if you like ;D but that is what I was told by a person who I believed, he was my FiL (RIP) who was an RSM in the Royal Hampshires Regiment.
Um ...

I think all I will say on this is my great uncle thomas who witnessed the fall of the Raj while serving with the RAMC having refused to go to war with a rifle and took the offer of going with the medical corps instead, had quite a bit to say in his diary about the heavily spiced food the natives liked

although yes, you are quite right, spicing up naval rations to disguise the disgusting state has been a thing since nelson's day if not before !!
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RoofGardener
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Hmm... this is a minor issue perhaps... but... non of the quoted references from the Oxford Dictionary mention meat. They seem to regard the curry as a sauce used to spice up fish and rice.

So the word itself - and the spices - may have been an "Indian" recipe originally, but the common useage - like a lot of "Chinese food" in the UK - has mutated considerably.
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Apr 14 2017, 06:03 PM
Hmm... this is a minor issue perhaps... but... non of the quoted references from the Oxford Dictionary mention meat. They seem to regard the curry as a sauce used to spice up fish and rice. . .
You sure? https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/curry
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johnofgwent
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are we perhaps confusing "curry" and "chicken tikka masala"
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RoofGardener
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SteveK, I was referring NOT to the dictionary definition of modern useage, but the earlier etymological analysis.

Incidentally, why do we "curry favour" ?
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Steve K
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Apologies that members could not post in this thread

Unfortunately when it was split out some berk didn't spot the Zetaboards default that puts it in the Announcements area

:-[

sorry
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Curious Cdn
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I have no problems believing that curry is a British invention.

Did you know that hot chili powder was invented by German immigrants to Texas in the nineteenth century?

S'truth!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_powder
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Rich
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RoofGardener
Apr 14 2017, 07:57 PM
SteveK, I was referring NOT to the dictionary definition of modern useage, but the earlier etymological analysis.

Incidentally, why do we "curry favour" ?
Hi roofie to try to reply to your question, here is one explanation, even if not the right one.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/curry-favour.html
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Rich
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Steve K
Apr 14 2017, 10:24 PM
Apologies that members could not post in this thread

Unfortunately when it was split out some berk didn't spot the Zetaboards default that puts it in the Announcements area

:-[

sorry
Many thanks Steve, I feel more at ease now. :thumbsup:
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Oddball
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Like most of the rest of the Indian sub-continent, the former Portugese colony of Goa had its traditional curries, but there was at least one Portugese officer who reckoned them to be a tad woosie, so when he went back home he concocted a curry with a bit more bite - it came to be known under the label, Vindaloo.

Of course any self respecting Geordie out knocking back pints of Newkie Brown, on a cold winter's night, while clad only in jeans and T-shirt, would deem a Vindaloo to be woosie, and would much prefer their local delicacy, the Megaloo.
Edited by Oddball, Apr 15 2017, 01:16 AM.
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Rich
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Oddball
Apr 15 2017, 01:10 AM
Like most of the rest of the Indian sub-continent, the former Portugese colony of Goa had its traditional curries, but there was at least one Portugese officer who reckoned them to be a tad woosie, so when he went back home he concocted a curry with a bit more bite - it came to be known under the label, Vindaloo.

Of course any self respecting Geordie out knocking back pints of Newkie Brown, on a cold winter's night, while clad only in jeans and T-shirt, would deem a Vindaloo to be woosie, and would much prefer their local delicacy, the Megaloo.
Do they have any anal passages left in Newcastle or has montezuma not reached them yet? scaredsofa:
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marybrown
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If you go to a really good Indian restaurant..the tastes are a little different..I asked for a ''Madras'' which is a medium hot curry..after two mins I was sweating like a pig at the butchers...
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RoofGardener
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Rich
Apr 14 2017, 10:42 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 14 2017, 07:57 PM
SteveK, I was referring NOT to the dictionary definition of modern useage, but the earlier etymological analysis.

Incidentally, why do we "curry favour" ?
Hi roofie to try to reply to your question, here is one explanation, even if not the right one.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/curry-favour.html
Thank's for that Rich. :)
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Oddball
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Rich
Apr 15 2017, 01:31 AM
Oddball
Apr 15 2017, 01:10 AM
Like most of the rest of the Indian sub-continent, the former Portugese colony of Goa had its traditional curries, but there was at least one Portugese officer who reckoned them to be a tad woosie, so when he went back home he concocted a curry with a bit more bite - it came to be known under the label, Vindaloo.<br /><br />Of course any self respecting Geordie out knocking back pints of Newkie Brown, on a cold winter's night, while clad only in jeans and T-shirt, would deem a Vindaloo to be woosie, and would much prefer their local delicacy, the Megaloo.
Do they have any anal passages left in Newcastle or has montezuma not reached them yet? scaredsofa:
Canny lad, the Yanks have the MOAB, the Geordies have the Megaloo - guaranteed to clear out all those passages - for gawd's sakes pass me a box of loo rolls and several cartons of Kleenex's - oh, and stick my mouth over the nearest water hydrant!! Don't forget to put on that mood music https://youtu.be/QfCOJLRk2D4
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disgruntled porker
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Stick to chips egg and beans.
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disgruntled porker
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RoofGardener
Apr 15 2017, 03:34 PM
Rich
Apr 14 2017, 10:42 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 14 2017, 07:57 PM
SteveK, I was referring NOT to the dictionary definition of modern useage, but the earlier etymological analysis.

Incidentally, why do we "curry favour" ?
Hi roofie to try to reply to your question, here is one explanation, even if not the right one.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/curry-favour.html
Thank's for that Rich. :)
I'd have thought it came from "curry comb" as used to groom horses. To groom in order to gain favour. Just my own explanation; not done any research.
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