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More Brexit; originally diversionary posts in Turkey thread
Topic Started: Apr 16 2017, 02:56 PM (459 Views)
C-too
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Rich
Apr 16 2017, 11:55 AM
"Not good is it, just have to hope against the odds that the outcome is a No vote"

Hope is no bad thing, it is the only thing in life that the government cannot take from a person.

Nonetheless, hope for remainers ended negatively and I have no doubt that your hope in the Turkish vote will end in the same manner. :)
I also hope your hope of a wonderful future for the UK post Brexit comes to fruition :)
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Replies:
Rich
Senior Member
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C-too
Apr 19 2017, 08:12 PM
Rich
Apr 19 2017, 05:48 PM
C-too
Apr 18 2017, 09:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
And they should be seeking Asylum in the first country they land in, not allowed to sneak illegally into the UK by hiding in trucks and containers.
Too many to be able to force them to stay in the first country they land in, so that claim falls at the first hurdle.

If they sneak into this country (or cross any illegal borders) by breaking the law then the law should be reinforced. If you have a USABLE method of stopping illegal immigration or dealing with illegal immigration, other than your dream list of answers, there are many countries who would pay you handsomely to share your knowledge with them.
Thank you for providing my answer, if a continent cannot stop the onslaught, how do you expect a small Island like the UK to keep to it's aspirations of "tens of thousands"

Please try and keep a balanced view, the UK does not make the rules, but they do try their best to abide by them, Hungary had the right answer.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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RoofGardener
Apr 19 2017, 07:31 PM
Steve K
Apr 17 2017, 08:19 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 17 2017, 07:51 PM
So, on that basis, a "leaver" isn't somebody who voted "leave" ?
As you know what was actually posted was:

"One day so many of the Leavers are going to realise they have been repeating like parrots . . ."

Quite clearly excludes both those that only voted and those that expressed either questions or truthful reasons for leaving.
OH really ? ;D

What proportion of leave voters would you estimate as being "so many..." ? (as per your original quote)
I'd guess about 25%, certainly wasn't all but hard to tell. Outside of internet forums I really don't know anyone who absolutely I know voted Leave and none that advocated leave arguments in the campaign. One of my friends who was pro UKIP in 2013 had swung round way before the referendum.

But we know most posters here were pro Leave and we know a few of them were spouting false rhetoric during the campaign. Some of them were even spouting obvious lies and dodgy stories after the vote, one or two still do.
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Rich
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Steve K
Apr 19 2017, 10:50 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 19 2017, 07:31 PM
Steve K
Apr 17 2017, 08:19 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"One day so many of the Leavers are going to realise they have been repeating like parrots . . ."

Quite clearly excludes both those that only voted and those that expressed either questions or truthful reasons for leaving.
OH really ? ;D

What proportion of leave voters would you estimate as being "so many..." ? (as per your original quote)
I'd guess about 25%, certainly wasn't all but hard to tell. Outside of internet forums I really don't know anyone who absolutely I know voted Leave and none that advocated leave arguments in the campaign. One of my friends who was pro UKIP in 2013 had swung round way before the referendum.

But we know most posters here were pro Leave and we know a few of them were spouting false rhetoric during the campaign. Some of them were even spouting obvious lies and dodgy stories after the vote, one or two still do.
That's a fair comment Steve, I suppose it is just as fair as when I say I have never yet met anyone, (and I have met plenty) who voted to join the EU as it is, I have certainly met many who voted to join the European Community as it then was and then it evolved into the EEC....well, there was no looking back after that, the rest is history, nonetheless....history once again is in the making.

Nothing ever stays the same.
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C-too
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Rich
Apr 19 2017, 09:21 PM
C-too
Apr 19 2017, 08:12 PM
Rich
Apr 19 2017, 05:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Too many to be able to force them to stay in the first country they land in, so that claim falls at the first hurdle.

If they sneak into this country (or cross any illegal borders) by breaking the law then the law should be reinforced. If you have a USABLE method of stopping illegal immigration or dealing with illegal immigration, other than your dream list of answers, there are many countries who would pay you handsomely to share your knowledge with them.
Thank you for providing my answer, if a continent cannot stop the onslaught, how do you expect a small Island like the UK to keep to it's aspirations of "tens of thousands"

Please try and keep a balanced view, the UK does not make the rules, but they do try their best to abide by them, Hungary had the right answer.
Hungary was swamped by asylum seekers, they had little option but to do something about it. It is also part of the Schengen area which the UK is not.

You do not have an answer to illegal immigration yet you want to blame the reason for it on the EU and the FoM ?

And you think I'm the one who needs a balanced view :nono:
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Steve K
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Rich
Apr 20 2017, 12:08 AM
Steve K
Apr 19 2017, 10:50 PM
RoofGardener
Apr 19 2017, 07:31 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"One day so many of the Leavers are going to realise they have been repeating like parrots . . ."
I'd guess about 25%, certainly wasn't all but hard to tell. Outside of internet forums I really don't know anyone who absolutely I know voted Leave and none that advocated leave arguments in the campaign. One of my friends who was pro UKIP in 2013 had swung round way before the referendum.

But we know most posters here were pro Leave and we know a few of them were spouting false rhetoric during the campaign. Some of them were even spouting obvious lies and dodgy stories after the vote, one or two still do.
That's a fair comment Steve, I suppose it is just as fair as when I say I have never yet met anyone, (and I have met plenty) who voted to join the EU as it is, I have certainly met many who voted to join the European Community as it then was and then it evolved into the EEC....well, there was no looking back after that, the rest is history, nonetheless....history once again is in the making.

Nothing ever stays the same.
:rubchin: Did you vote for Thatcher in 1987? (I didn't, I suspect you did) but if you did you voted for the government that agreed Maastricht

Did you vote Conservative in 1992? I did (wasn't going to vote for Kinnoch) if so you voted for
"To build on the EC's Association Agreements with Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland so that we can welcome them to full membership by the year 2000" http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml

Did you vote Labour in 2001? (I didn't, I doubt you did) but if anyone did they voted for "We will engage fully in Europe, help enlarge the European Union" http://labourmanifesto.com/2001/2001-labour-manifesto.shtml

They were the key policies that led the EU way too far down the never mind the quality feel the width idiocy
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RoofGardener
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I'm not sure that is reasonable, SteveK ? So far as I can recall, all of the main political parties in 1987, 1992 and 2001 supported continuing membership of the EU. Only UKIP and the BNP where agitating to leave ? So the 'voters' didn't really have a proper CHOICE in the matter. Their votes did NOT count as a "vote for the EU".

Also.... Rich.. a minor point I know, but NOBODY voted for joining even the EEC. (except the 650 MP's). We joined the EEC by government fiat, and then a year or two AFTERWARDS we had a referendum as to whether to CONTINUE in it.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Steve K
Apr 20 2017, 08:46 AM
Rich
Apr 20 2017, 12:08 AM
Steve K
Apr 19 2017, 10:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"One day so many of the Leavers are going to realise they have been repeating like parrots . . ."a few of them were spouting false rhetoric during the campaign. Some of them were even spouting obvious lies and dodgy stories after the vote, one or two still do.
That's a fair comment Steve, I suppose it is just as fair as when I say I have never yet met anyone, (and I have met plenty) who voted to join the EU as it is, I have certainly met many who voted to join the European Community as it then was and then it evolved into the EEC....well, there was no looking back after that, the rest is history, nonetheless....history once again is in the making.

Nothing ever stays the same.
:rubchin: Did you vote for Thatcher in 1987? (I didn't, I suspect you did) but if you did you voted for the government that agreed Maastricht

Did you vote Conservative in 1992? I did (wasn't going to vote for Kinnoch) if so you voted for
"To build on the EC's Association Agreements with Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland so that we can welcome them to full membership by the year 2000" http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml

Did you vote Labour in 2001? (I didn't, I doubt you did) but if anyone did they voted for "We will engage fully in Europe, help enlarge the European Union" http://labourmanifesto.com/2001/2001-labour-manifesto.shtml

They were the key policies that led the EU way too far down the never mind the quality feel the width idiocy
So what, in 2016 the The EU were well aware of the concerns of the UK electorate after so much had changed, they could have been more flexible with Cameron, they were not, we are now where we are and I would not be surprised that in order to hold the EU together they will HAVE to be flexible with other member states.

Just because one voted in the past for something that does not now resemble a reasonable thing does not mean one has to dogmatically stick by that decision and ruin ones country.
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Steve K
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Rich
Apr 20 2017, 08:23 PM
Steve K
Apr 20 2017, 08:46 AM
Rich
Apr 20 2017, 12:08 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"One day so many of the Leavers are going to realise they have been repeating like parrots . . ."a few
:rubchin: Did you vote for Thatcher in 1987? (I didn't, I suspect you did) but if you did you voted for the government that agreed Maastricht

Did you vote Conservative in 1992? I did (wasn't going to vote for Kinnoch) if so you voted for
"To build on the EC's Association Agreements with Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland so that we can welcome them to full membership by the year 2000" http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml

Did you vote Labour in 2001? (I didn't, I doubt you did) but if anyone did they voted for "We will engage fully in Europe, help enlarge the European Union" http://labourmanifesto.com/2001/2001-labour-manifesto.shtml

They were the key policies that led the EU way too far down the never mind the quality feel the width idiocy
So what, in 2016 the The EU were well aware of the concerns of the UK electorate after so much had changed, they could have been more flexible with Cameron, they were not, we are now where we are and I would not be surprised that in order to hold the EU together they will HAVE to be flexible with other member states.

Just because one voted in the past for something that does not now resemble a reasonable thing does not mean one has to dogmatically stick by that decision and ruin ones country.
Well excuse me for answering your point as posted and not where you moved the goal posts to after I replied. I'm not clairvoyant you know
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Rich
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Steve K
Apr 20 2017, 09:58 PM
Rich
Apr 20 2017, 08:23 PM
Steve K
Apr 20 2017, 08:46 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"One day so many of the Leavers are going to realise they have been repeating like parrots . . ."a few"To build on the EC's Association Agreements with Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland so that we can welcome them to full membership by the year 2000" http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml

Did you vote Labour in 2001? (I didn't, I doubt you did) but if anyone did they voted for "We will engage fully in Europe, help enlarge the European Union" http://labourmanifesto.com/2001/2001-labour-manifesto.shtml

They were the key policies that led the EU way too far down the never mind the quality feel the width idiocy
So what, in 2016 the The EU were well aware of the concerns of the UK electorate after so much had changed, they could have been more flexible with Cameron, they were not, we are now where we are and I would not be surprised that in order to hold the EU together they will HAVE to be flexible with other member states.

Just because one voted in the past for something that does not now resemble a reasonable thing does not mean one has to dogmatically stick by that decision and ruin ones country.
Well excuse me for answering your point as posted and not where you moved the goal posts to after I replied. I'm not clairvoyant you know
No need to excuse you Steve, your comment was fair, but just as in your's and my household, one does not keep on with a method that damages ones family life and living standards, one changes to adapt to consolidate ones position in order to make life better, and in the opinion of 52% of the voting electorate, that is exactly what they did.

How this can be described as a diversion is beyond me.
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Rich
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Rich
Apr 20 2017, 10:08 PM
Steve K
Apr 20 2017, 09:58 PM
Rich
Apr 20 2017, 08:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"One day so many of the Leavers are going to realise they have been repeating like parrots . . ."a few"To build on the EC's Association Agreements with Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland so that we can welcome them to full membership by the year 2000" http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1992/1992-conservative-manifesto.shtml

Did you vote Labour in 2001? (I didn't, I doubt you did) but if anyone did they voted for "We will engage fully in Europe, help enlarge the European Union" http://labourmanifesto.com/2001/2001-labour-manifesto.shtml
Well excuse me for answering your point as posted and not where you moved the goal posts to after I replied. I'm not clairvoyant you know
No need to excuse you Steve, your comment was fair, but just as in your's and my household, one does not keep on with a method that damages ones family life and living standards, one changes to adapt to consolidate ones position in order to make life better, and in the opinion of 52% of the voting electorate, that is exactly what they did.

How this can be described as a diversion is beyond me.
If anything, the following is a diversion, this is from the daily politics show and the Shadow education minister is asked various questions by Jo Coburn......guess what? he does not answer one single one of them......weasel words in my opinion and good airtime wasted on nothing.

It begins at 12 minutes in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08n9r9r/daily-politics-21042017
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Tigger
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Rich
Apr 20 2017, 10:08 PM
No need to excuse you Steve, your comment was fair, but just as in your's and my household, one does not keep on with a method that damages ones family life and living standards, one changes to adapt to consolidate ones position in order to make life better, and in the opinion of 52% of the voting electorate, that is exactly what they did.

There seems to be a lot of rather dim people about then, when "one" makes a judgement about "ones" future "one" tend to look a bit further ahead than the front page of the Mail or Sun. "One" also should not blame others for never having worked hard enough to compete in an ever changing economy.

But it's a bit late for that now, still it is going to be one hell of a laugh! ;D
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Steve K
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Rich
Apr 20 2017, 10:08 PM
How this can be described as a diversion is beyond me.
The thread got its title of diversions because it was all off topic posts in the Turkey thread

Now it has a life of its own I'll merge this lot with a suitable thread when I can be bothered to find one or I'll rename it

Update: Went for the latter
Edited by Steve K, Apr 22 2017, 10:10 AM.
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Dan1989
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Tigger
Apr 21 2017, 08:49 PM
Rich
Apr 20 2017, 10:08 PM
No need to excuse you Steve, your comment was fair, but just as in your's and my household, one does not keep on with a method that damages ones family life and living standards, one changes to adapt to consolidate ones position in order to make life better, and in the opinion of 52% of the voting electorate, that is exactly what they did.

There seems to be a lot of rather dim people about then, when "one" makes a judgement about "ones" future "one" tend to look a bit further ahead than the front page of the Mail or Sun. "One" also should not blame others for never having worked hard enough to compete in an ever changing economy.

But it's a bit late for that now, still it is going to be one hell of a laugh! ;D
There's another immigration apologist, probably benefited from the cheap labour, how much is the Tory membership currently?

Considering the levels of unemployment and people taking advantage of people working below minimum wage, you want to blame the working class, Oi work more like slaves you peasants, how's that going for you, oh that's right, they are making decisions you don't like.

Slough a highly multicultural place voted to leave, damn those Silks and Muslims siding with those damn sun readers, the only reason London voted to stay because the fear about the Financial sector, even immigrants disagree with current immigration.

Though you are middle class and your bubble is awaiting you, I don't you think deal or know much working class people do you, because if you did you might offer them a bit more consideration, giving that their only crime is not being sufficiently wealthy, at this rate you'll be asking if killing all the poor is too much.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 08:56 AM.
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