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Happy Hornet
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Apr 21 2017, 01:34 PM
Post #41
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- Apr 21 2017, 12:07 PM
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You said you were going to ban religion in public. How can the other side campaign if they can't publicly discuss or advocate religion?
So in your mind, banning the practice of religion in public, means no-one can talk about it, are you really saying us two are now practising religion because we are talking about it? Again, I lead you to my last point, Drugs(many) and Paedophilia are banned, but it does not stop people talking about it, or advocating for it? Well ok when you say publicly banned does that mean a ban on people publicly advocating a religion? Holding pro-religion rallies etc?
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Dan1989
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Apr 21 2017, 01:40 PM
Post #42
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So in your mind, banning the practice of religion in public, means no-one can talk about it, are you really saying us two are now practising religion because we are talking about it? Again, I lead you to my last point, Drugs(many) and Paedophilia are banned, but it does not stop people talking about it, or advocating for it?
Well ok when you say publicly banned does that mean a ban on people publicly advocating a religion? Holding pro-religion rallies etc? Well, I could hold a rally supporting the legalisation of a certain drug, without partaking in the drug which at that point is still banned.
Also pro-religious rallies, that would be laughable if we didn't have Islam, at best a few thousands, except Islam.
But to clarify about the banning, no religious buildings, schools, celebrations(minus the ones which have mostly been taken over by corporatism(good for business)) and similar.
No canvasing people(THANK ALLAH ) and stuff like that.
But people are free to continue their religion in private, just no permission to display it in public like schools and buildings, obviously religious euphemism would be fine.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 21 2017, 01:43 PM.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 21 2017, 01:46 PM
Post #43
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Well ok when you say publicly banned does that mean a ban on people publicly advocating a religion? Holding pro-religion rallies etc?
Well, I could hold a rally supporting the legalisation of a certain drug, without partaking in the drug which at that point is still banned. Also pro-religious rallies, that would be laughable if we didn't have Islam, at best a few thousands, except Islam. But to clarify about the banning, no religious buildings, schools, celebrations(minus the ones which have mostly been taken over by corporatism(good for business)) and similar. No canvasing people(THANK ALLAH  ) and stuff like that. But people are free to continue their religion in private, just no permission to display in public, obviously religious euphemism would be fine. If you're going to make exceptions however well intentioned you would never get the idea off the ground imo.
Also if you ban churches etc people will just congregate in unofficial spaces.
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Dan1989
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Apr 21 2017, 01:49 PM
Post #44
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Well, I could hold a rally supporting the legalisation of a certain drug, without partaking in the drug which at that point is still banned. Also pro-religious rallies, that would be laughable if we didn't have Islam, at best a few thousands, except Islam. But to clarify about the banning, no religious buildings, schools, celebrations(minus the ones which have mostly been taken over by corporatism(good for business)) and similar. No canvasing people(THANK ALLAH  ) and stuff like that. But people are free to continue their religion in private, just no permission to display in public, obviously religious euphemism would be fine.
If you're going to make exceptions however well intentioned you would never get the idea off the ground imo. Also if you ban churches etc people will just congregate in unofficial spaces. I believe the support is already there, the only groups in my generation keeping their religion is Islam, but for the most they are quite anti-religious.
I could see the banning of faith schools coming first, then religious buildings(well new ones), maybe in two to three decades or a decade more.
That's fine if people want to hold they poorly turnout church meetings in someone's house, but we can turn most of the Churches, Temples & Mosques into swanky flats and houses, helping with the housing crisis.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 21 2017, 01:50 PM.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 21 2017, 02:10 PM
Post #45
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If you're going to make exceptions however well intentioned you would never get the idea off the ground imo. Also if you ban churches etc people will just congregate in unofficial spaces.
I believe the support is already there, the only groups in my generation keeping their religion is Islam, but for the most they are quite anti-religious. I could see the banning of faith schools coming first, then religious buildings(well new ones), maybe in two to three decades or a decade more. That's fine if people want to hold they poorly turnout church meetings in someone's house, but we can turn most of the Churches, Temples & Mosques into swanky flats and houses, helping with the housing crisis. With all due respect do you really think u can talk for your generation? You are talking about an awful lot of people.
Through colleagues, family and friends I know or know of religously observant Christians, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs in their 20s.
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marybrown
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Apr 21 2017, 02:24 PM
Post #46
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I believe the support is already there, the only groups in my generation keeping their religion is Islam, but for the most they are quite anti-religious. I could see the banning of faith schools coming first, then religious buildings(well new ones), maybe in two to three decades or a decade more. That's fine if people want to hold they poorly turnout church meetings in someone's house, but we can turn most of the Churches, Temples & Mosques into swanky flats and houses, helping with the housing crisis.
With all due respect do you really think u can talk for your generation? You are talking about an awful lot of people. Through colleagues, family and friends I know or know of religously observant Christians, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs in their 20s. Islam...nest of vipers..
Who are here?
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Dan1989
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Apr 21 2017, 02:28 PM
Post #47
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I believe the support is already there, the only groups in my generation keeping their religion is Islam, but for the most they are quite anti-religious. I could see the banning of faith schools coming first, then religious buildings(well new ones), maybe in two to three decades or a decade more. That's fine if people want to hold they poorly turnout church meetings in someone's house, but we can turn most of the Churches, Temples & Mosques into swanky flats and houses, helping with the housing crisis.
With all due respect do you really think u can talk for your generation? You are talking about an awful lot of people. Through colleagues, family and friends I know or know of religously observant Christians, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs in their 20s. Yeah, even polls show such dislike to religion, also the very fact that the thousands of people I've met in my generation only a handful were religious and the only consistency were Muslims, I live in a place where I am close to being a minority, I met a crap loads of young Muslims and they are the only ones still religious in the strictest definition.
Even Silks and Hindus are at best casual with their faith and most aren't at all religious.
And native people, religion is all but gone.
I am talking about my age group.
When you say observant, do you mean they pay minimum attention to their respective religion or are they true followers, perform all the necessary tasked giving to them, though many only pay lip-service and if they truly believe, probably going to hell, or their particular version.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/06/24/british-youth-reject-religion/
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 21 2017, 02:30 PM.
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marybrown
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Apr 21 2017, 02:51 PM
Post #48
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I believe the support is already there, the only groups in my generation keeping their religion is Islam, but for the most they are quite anti-religious. I could see the banning of faith schools coming first, then religious buildings(well new ones), maybe in two to three decades or a decade more. That's fine if people want to hold they poorly turnout church meetings in someone's house, but we can turn most of the Churches, Temples & Mosques into swanky flats and houses, helping with the housing crisis.
With all due respect do you really think u can talk for your generation? You are talking about an awful lot of people. Through colleagues, family and friends I know or know of religously observant Christians, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs in their 20s. We have no problem with Jews..Hindu's or Sikhs..they are not trying to kill us!!
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RoofGardener
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Apr 21 2017, 03:05 PM
Post #49
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- Apr 21 2017, 12:59 PM
......
Also we can not be seen to be favouring one over the others.
.... Umm.. that's daft, surely ?
On THAT basis, shouldn't we put EVERYBODY in prison, rather than just convicted criminals, in order to avoid the impression that we are "...favouring one over the others".
If one religion is attempting to subvert society, or encouraging illegal acts or hatred, then feel free to ban that religion (or at least, the prostylising of the illegal aspects of that religion); don't ban harmless Bhuddists or Hindu's just to appear "even-handed"; that's throwing out the baby with the Font-water !
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Rich
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Apr 21 2017, 04:33 PM
Post #50
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I don't know if what you say about Christianity is entirely true, look at the hoo hah over the recent easter egg fiasco, the winterval myth that gets peddled every Christmas and then of course 26 seats in the HoL reserved for CofE bishops. Imagine the sh1t storm there would be if it was announced that from now on 26 seats had to be reserved for imams. I think what's needed is a united front against extremists in both communities.
Yeah, that issue, where everyone laughed at it because firstly as most people pointed out was a pagan idea taken from them, though no terrorism or riots, which we've seen with Islam, for just drawing a funny picture, just one example. I would kick out the Bishops as-well, no religion please, we were very close to that dream, but we let in more religions You've never get a united front, that's a lie we tell ourselves, for the most part we are ideological opposed to Islam, nearly everything we hold dear they disagree with. This is the major flaw with multiculturalism and multiple-religions, you lose any chance of unity that's the price of it, but people have been quite naive in the modern age, too many drum circles while being intoxicated. My old Dad me when I was much younger, when out socialising, never talk politics or religion and certainly not both in the same sentence otherwise you will end up at each others throats.......that was 45 years ago, nothing has changed.
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marybrown
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Apr 21 2017, 04:41 PM
Post #51
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Yeah, that issue, where everyone laughed at it because firstly as most people pointed out was a pagan idea taken from them, though no terrorism or riots, which we've seen with Islam, for just drawing a funny picture, just one example. I would kick out the Bishops as-well, no religion please, we were very close to that dream, but we let in more religions You've never get a united front, that's a lie we tell ourselves, for the most part we are ideological opposed to Islam, nearly everything we hold dear they disagree with. This is the major flaw with multiculturalism and multiple-religions, you lose any chance of unity that's the price of it, but people have been quite naive in the modern age, too many drum circles while being intoxicated.
My old Dad me when I was much younger, when out socialising, never talk politics or religion and certainly not both in the same sentence otherwise you will end up at each others throats.......that was 45 years ago, nothing has changed. Same as you Rich..if these people are polite to me..I will be polite to them..
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Tigger
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Apr 21 2017, 09:16 PM
Post #52
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Things like this will only strengthen the arm of extremist candidates in the French elections on Sunday.
Fortunately there are not that many people in France with your mindset.
Again, you seem not to understand other people, Chinese last time, now French. National Front growing support is in the younger generation, if these events keep happening then she's a shoe-in for the election. People like you attack your own too quickly, they are just worried and wondering how it's going to be fixed, we need a strong front against this instead of ripping each other apart, because some might say something non-political correct things Our police are dying for the stupid mistakes of our politicians. How much time do I spend wondering if I'll be killed by an Islamic nutter? Not a lot if I'm honest, I suspect many people all over the World are also like me in this respect (not you obviously!) and tend to think rationally and not jump to pre prepared collusions because they are mentally lazy and easily misled.
Sorry to dissapoint so many on here but I don't see barmy Muslims as the greatest threat to civilisation just yet. And amazingly the few Muslims I do know are well educated, have good jobs and have yet to kill anyone!
So when are we going to boot everyone single one of them out so you can feel a teensy weeny bit safer? Take your time on that one, no rush........
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C-too
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Apr 22 2017, 05:38 AM
Post #53
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Yeah, that issue, where everyone laughed at it because firstly as most people pointed out was a pagan idea taken from them, though no terrorism or riots, which we've seen with Islam, for just drawing a funny picture, just one example. I would kick out the Bishops as-well, no religion please, we were very close to that dream, but we let in more religions You've never get a united front, that's a lie we tell ourselves, for the most part we are ideological opposed to Islam, nearly everything we hold dear they disagree with. This is the major flaw with multiculturalism and multiple-religions, you lose any chance of unity that's the price of it, but people have been quite naive in the modern age, too many drum circles while being intoxicated.
My old Dad me when I was much younger, when out socialising, never talk politics or religion and certainly not both in the same sentence otherwise you will end up at each others throats.......that was 45 years ago, nothing has changed. It was an unwritten rule for pubs which in my experience is pretty much followed, except during the Thatcher period.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 07:43 AM
Post #54
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Again, you seem not to understand other people, Chinese last time, now French. National Front growing support is in the younger generation, if these events keep happening then she's a shoe-in for the election. People like you attack your own too quickly, they are just worried and wondering how it's going to be fixed, we need a strong front against this instead of ripping each other apart, because some might say something non-political correct things Our police are dying for the stupid mistakes of our politicians.
How much time do I spend wondering if I'll be killed by an Islamic nutter? Not a lot if I'm honest, I suspect many people all over the World are also like me in this respect (not you obviously!) and tend to think rationally and not jump to pre prepared collusions because they are mentally lazy and easily misled. Sorry to dissapoint so many on here but I don't see barmy Muslims as the greatest threat to civilisation just yet. And amazingly the few Muslims I do know are well educated, have good jobs and have yet to kill anyone! So when are we going to boot everyone single one of them out so you can feel a teensy weeny bit safer? Take your time on that one, no rush........ Love it, the token minority card, make sure you got that black token friend. I meet more Muslims going to the shops then you've ever seen in your life and as usual people like you make the same mistake, a single Muslim is different to a group of Muslims, maybe once you live near a large enough number you might understand, but don't mind me if I don't take your middle class smug superiority complex & token Muslims as indicative of the current climate.
I bet you even live in an area that's pretty much cultural as-well as ethnically cohesive and you guys wonder why we don't take you seriously.
This is really a fight between people brought up around actual multiculturalism and middle class people like you Tigger and their token Muslims, who live far away from such issues, too many people pay for your sensibilities.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 11:02 AM.
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Tigger
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Apr 22 2017, 11:15 AM
Post #55
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This is really a fight between people brought up around actual multiculturalism and middle class people like you Tigger and their token Muslims, who live far away from such issues, too many people pay for your sensibilities.
More ignorance.
I spent many years living in a very multicultural East London, and Isuspect that was many years before you were even born. Yes there were one or two tensions and a fair few of my neighbours were non British and coloured, the thing is I rarely had a problem with them and most were just like me in trying to get along with life, the biggest problen back then was the cretins in the National Front who were continually trying to stoke up hate and fear.
You'll have to forgive me for not falling for it thirty odd years later because I didn't fall for it back them.
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Tigger
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Apr 22 2017, 11:19 AM
Post #56
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I bet you even live in an area that's pretty much cultural as-well as ethnically cohesive and you guys wonder why we don't take you seriously.
And I'm still asking what should be done about the present problems involving Islam? For some reason that question never seems to get answered!
Everyone moans but no one has a coherent solution!
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 22 2017, 11:20 AM
Post #57
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How much time do I spend wondering if I'll be killed by an Islamic nutter? Not a lot if I'm honest, I suspect many people all over the World are also like me in this respect (not you obviously!) and tend to think rationally and not jump to pre prepared collusions because they are mentally lazy and easily misled. Sorry to dissapoint so many on here but I don't see barmy Muslims as the greatest threat to civilisation just yet. And amazingly the few Muslims I do know are well educated, have good jobs and have yet to kill anyone! So when are we going to boot everyone single one of them out so you can feel a teensy weeny bit safer? Take your time on that one, no rush........
Love it, the token minority card, make sure you got that black token friend. I meet more Muslims going to the shops then you've ever seen in your life and as usual people like you make the same mistake, a single Muslim is different to a group of Muslims, maybe once you live near a large enough number you might understand, but don't mind me if I don't take your middle class smug superiority complex & token Muslims as indicative of the current climate. I bet you even live in an area that's pretty much cultural as-well as ethnically cohesive and you guys wonder why we don't take you seriously. This is really a fight between people brought up around actual multiculturalism and middle class people like you Tigger and their token Muslims, who live far away from such issues, too many people pay for your sensibilities. I'm really not sure what inverted snobbery does to help unify our society.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 11:23 AM
Post #58
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This is really a fight between people brought up around actual multiculturalism and middle class people like you Tigger and their token Muslims, who live far away from such issues, too many people pay for your sensibilities.
More ignorance. I spent many years living in a very multicultural East London, and Isuspect that was many years before you were even born. Yes there were one or two tensions and a fair few of my neighbours were non British and coloured, the thing is I rarely had a problem with them and most were just like me in trying to get along with life, the biggest problen back then was the cretins in the National Front who were continually trying to stoke up hate and fear. You'll have to forgive me for not falling for it thirty odd years later because I didn't fall for it back them. You spent some years, well done, you lasted so well in the VERY WHITE LONDON AND CULTURALLY ENGLISH AND RELIGION at that time, just well done, it's only largely changed in the last 10-15 years, but still is majority British.
If only you knew, ever had to dodge a Ethiopian gang or when they are having fights with Somalian Gangs, thought not.
What about the Polish gangs fighting the Muslims gangs, or the Silks and their regular dealings with Muslims.
Could you be anymore middle class and ignorant.
You literally replied with it never happened to me, so it never happens.
Could this why Slough voted to leave the EU, could immigration cause problems that your privilege life never encountered, make it even more sad, there was a time when busses couldn't be driven at nighttime because of vandalism and gangs.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 11:28 AM.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 11:27 AM
Post #59
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Love it, the token minority card, make sure you got that black token friend. I meet more Muslims going to the shops then you've ever seen in your life and as usual people like you make the same mistake, a single Muslim is different to a group of Muslims, maybe once you live near a large enough number you might understand, but don't mind me if I don't take your middle class smug superiority complex & token Muslims as indicative of the current climate. I bet you even live in an area that's pretty much cultural as-well as ethnically cohesive and you guys wonder why we don't take you seriously. This is really a fight between people brought up around actual multiculturalism and middle class people like you Tigger and their token Muslims, who live far away from such issues, too many people pay for your sensibilities.
I'm really not sure what inverted snobbery does to help unify our society. I told you, nothing will, it's only naivety that stopping your from seeing it.
This is the price you pay for it.
Every-time multiculturalism rears it head problems arise, American, Here, Sweden, Germany, France the list goes on.
The problem you and Tigger make is seeing it from a micro level, instead of a macro level, as the saying goes a person is smart, but people are dumb.
One religious person is normally not an issue, but a group of them can cause issues, also it doesn't help when a religion sees itself as the most righteous and should dominate the others.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 11:29 AM.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 22 2017, 11:35 AM
Post #60
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I'm really not sure what inverted snobbery does to help unify our society.
I told you, nothing will, it's only naivety that stopping your from seeing it. This is the price you pay for it. Every-time multiculturalism rears it head problems arise, American, Here, Sweden, Germany, France the list goes on. The problem you and Tigger make is seeing it from a micro level, instead of a macro level, as the saying goes a person is smart, but people are dumb. One religious person is normally not an issue, but a group of them can cause issues, also it doesn't help when a religion sees itself as the most righteous and should dominate the others. If the problem is a lack of social cohesion attacking people for their class is only going to make things worse.
As it happens, I live a pretty comfortable middle class life NOW. When I was a kid it was a very different story however and I'll wager my childhood was a lot tougher and poorer than yours was.
So please, spare me any lectures about middle class ivory towers.
Oh, and if you want to know how I got from there to here, here's a clue, I didn't do it by adopting a victim complex, hating on people for having what I couldn't be bothered to earn and blaming others for my own personal short comings.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 11:48 AM
Post #61
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:20 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I told you, nothing will, it's only naivety that stopping your from seeing it. This is the price you pay for it. Every-time multiculturalism rears it head problems arise, American, Here, Sweden, Germany, France the list goes on. The problem you and Tigger make is seeing it from a micro level, instead of a macro level, as the saying goes a person is smart, but people are dumb. One religious person is normally not an issue, but a group of them can cause issues, also it doesn't help when a religion sees itself as the most righteous and should dominate the others.
If the problem is a lack of social cohesion attacking people for their class is only going to make things worse. As it happens, I live a pretty comfortable middle class life NOW. When I was a kid it was a very different story however and I'll wager my childhood was a lot tougher and poorer than yours was. So please, spare me any lectures about middle class ivory towers. Oh, and if you want to know how I got from there to here, here's a clue, I didn't do it by adopting a victim complex, hating on people for having what I couldn't be bothered to earn and blaming others for my own personal short comings. If you were mostly eating bread and water and had to deal with charities and only new school clothes once a year, also add on racial and religious aggression as-well, but that's not the point.
Does everyone realise I am programmer now and no longer completely poor, so take your middle class sociology victim hood bullshit class someone else.
I am using my experience to inform people of what it's like in this new liberal everyone wants to be part of multicultural hellholes, while people like you(normally middle class) sings it praises why not living in them, see the issue now, no-one choice this, but it was thrusted onto people without their permission.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 11:53 AM.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 22 2017, 11:52 AM
Post #62
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:48 AM
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- Dan1989
- Apr 22 2017, 11:27 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If the problem is a lack of social cohesion attacking people for their class is only going to make things worse. As it happens, I live a pretty comfortable middle class life NOW. When I was a kid it was a very different story however and I'll wager my childhood was a lot tougher and poorer than yours was. So please, spare me any lectures about middle class ivory towers. Oh, and if you want to know how I got from there to here, here's a clue, I didn't do it by adopting a victim complex, hating on people for having what I couldn't be bothered to earn and blaming others for my own personal short comings.
If you were mostly eating bread and water and had to deal with charities and only new school clothes once a year, also add on racial and religious aggression as-well. Does everyone realise I am programmer now and no longer completely poor, so take your middle class sociology victim hood bullshit class someone else. I am using my experience to inform people of what it's like in this new liberal everyone wants to be part of multicultural hellholes, while people like sing it praises why not living in them, see the issue now, no-one choose this, but it was thrusted onto people without their permission. I remember on several occasions having to walk the 8 miles to my grandparents house just to get something to eat.
So excuse me if I have little patience for people lecturing me on how elite and ignorant about life at the bottom of the pile I am.
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Tigger
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Apr 22 2017, 11:53 AM
Post #63
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:23 AM
You spent some years, well done, you lasted so well in the VERY WHITE LONDON AND CULTURALLY ENGLISH AND RELIGION at that time, just well done, it's only largely changed in the last 10-15 years, but still is majority British.
I have to point out yet again that even in the late seventies and early eighties there were a lot of blacks, Indians, Muslims, Chinese and god knows what else living in my area, although these days it's like one of those white enclaves you think I now live in!
I can only presume you did not understand the words in my post or you just ignored them so as to prattle on some more.
No need to answer that btw, I've already got the jist of it.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 11:56 AM
Post #64
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:52 AM
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:48 AM
- Happy Hornet
- Apr 22 2017, 11:35 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If you were mostly eating bread and water and had to deal with charities and only new school clothes once a year, also add on racial and religious aggression as-well. Does everyone realise I am programmer now and no longer completely poor, so take your middle class sociology victim hood bullshit class someone else. I am using my experience to inform people of what it's like in this new liberal everyone wants to be part of multicultural hellholes, while people like sing it praises why not living in them, see the issue now, no-one choose this, but it was thrusted onto people without their permission.
I remember on several occasions having to walk the 8 miles to my grandparents house just to get something to eat. So excuse me if I have little patience for people lecturing me on how elite and ignorant about life at the bottom of the pile I am. You making a mistake, just because you lived an equal not fun upbringing, you seem to have ignored others in similar issues, who didn't ask for the extra pressures of cheaper labour and competition, both depriving of them of good wages and opportunities, minus on top of that racial, sectarian, cultural issues.
But let's just call them ignorant racists peasants, they should just take it, so we can be happier in the middle & upper class.
Its not me who's forgotten them.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 12:03 PM.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 12:02 PM
Post #65
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:23 AM
You spent some years, well done, you lasted so well in the VERY WHITE LONDON AND CULTURALLY ENGLISH AND RELIGION at that time, just well done, it's only largely changed in the last 10-15 years, but still is majority British.
I have to point out yet again that even in the late seventies and early eighties there were a lot of blacks, Indians, Muslims, Chinese and god knows what else living in my area, although these days it's like one of those white enclaves you think I now live in! I can only presume you did not understand the words in my post or you just ignored them so as to prattle on some more. No need to answer that btw, I've already got the jist of it. Oh yeah, that incredible large ethnic population of the 80s, you mean when it still had loads of Londoners who've now moved out, it's not even comparable.
The changes in the last 15 years, swamps any before that, you speaking about the time what the Tories are trying to achieve the tens of thousands of migration.
In someways I don't blame you for not fully knowing, how could you, you moved out of those places when it got really crowded, where English can be barely heard.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 12:04 PM.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 22 2017, 12:03 PM
Post #66
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:48 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I remember on several occasions having to walk the 8 miles to my grandparents house just to get something to eat. So excuse me if I have little patience for people lecturing me on how elite and ignorant about life at the bottom of the pile I am.
You making a mistake, just because you lived an equal not fun upbringing, you seem to have ignored others in similar issues, who didn't ask for the extra pressures of cheaper labour and competition, both depriving of them of good wages and opportunities, minus on top of that racial, sectarian, cultural issues. But let's just call down ignorant racists peasants, they should just take it, so we can be happier in the middle & upper class. Its not me who's forgotten them. You're making a lot of assumptions here (again).
How do you know who (if anyone) I've forgotten? Got your magic glasses on have you?
You accuse others of being ignorant yet despite knowing nothing about me and my life experiences you project views and opinions on to me and attack me for them.
Why not try asking what my opinion is before going on the offensive?
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Steve K
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Apr 22 2017, 12:09 PM
Post #67
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So what's your point Dan?
That successive governments have been way too lax on immigration because it had short term benefits and some other bugger would have to deal with the long term issues? No argument from me on that
But your posts seem to be tinged with a xenophobic hate of anyone you can categorise as being ethnically non white or religiously not CofE. If you're trying to whip up neanderthal hate for such then please just say and such views really will get shredded
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 12:11 PM
Post #68
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:03 PM
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- Apr 22 2017, 11:56 AM
- Happy Hornet
- Apr 22 2017, 11:52 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You making a mistake, just because you lived an equal not fun upbringing, you seem to have ignored others in similar issues, who didn't ask for the extra pressures of cheaper labour and competition, both depriving of them of good wages and opportunities, minus on top of that racial, sectarian, cultural issues. But let's just call down ignorant racists peasants, they should just take it, so we can be happier in the middle & upper class. Its not me who's forgotten them.
You're making a lot of assumptions here (again). How do you know who (if anyone) I've forgotten? Got your magic glasses on have you? You accuse others of being ignorant yet despite knowing nothing about me and my life experiences you project views and opinions on to me and attack me for them. Why not try asking what my opinion is before going on the offensive? Actually, you've made it super personal, I just said middle class which by just sheer per-capita, seems to far more supportive of immigration and multiculturalism, maybe because they hardly deal with it, could be something to do with it.
Also annoyed with people who use token (insert ethnic here) card and say that's representative of everywhere.
Alright, we've been more personal then objective.
I just feel like the only person able to articulate the issues of working and increasingly lower-middle class people's issues, because I don't mind being called every buzzword like racist, xenophobe and so on, which has been used to shout down their issues.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 22 2017, 12:18 PM
Post #69
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:11 PM
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:03 PM
- Dan1989
- Apr 22 2017, 11:56 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You're making a lot of assumptions here (again). How do you know who (if anyone) I've forgotten? Got your magic glasses on have you? You accuse others of being ignorant yet despite knowing nothing about me and my life experiences you project views and opinions on to me and attack me for them. Why not try asking what my opinion is before going on the offensive?
Actually, you've made it super personal, I just said middle class which by just sheer per-capita, seems to far more supportive of immigration and multiculturalism, maybe because they hardly deal with it, could be something to do with it. Also annoyed with people who use token (insert ethnic here) card and say that's representative of everywhere. Alright, we've been more personal then objective. I just feel like the only person able to articulate the issues of working and increasingly lower-middle class people's issues, because I don't mind being called every buzzword like racist, xenophobe and so on, which has been used to shout down their issues. You yourself have dismisssed other people's views because they are supposedly middle class.
If you want people to listen maybe you should listen to them first instead of labelling as cartoonish middle class liberal stereotypes?
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 12:20 PM
Post #70
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:09 PM
So what's your point Dan?
That successive governments have been way too lax on immigration because it had short term benefits and some other bugger would have to deal with the long term issues? No argument from me on that
But your posts seem to be tinged with a xenophobic hate of anyone you can categorise as being ethnically non white or religiously not CofE. If you're trying to whip up neanderthal hate for such then please just say and such views really will get shredded
Try, many have and many have failed.
When someone does not care to called any of the buzzwords, people seems to fall at the first hurdle.
You know what, sometimes is does have to do with ethnicity, some of my family do live in a homogeneous area and the difference is startling, people try to talk to me, firstly it was English which was a plus, but that got me for few first times, because most people in larger towns and cities ignore you, this place wasn't that small either.
Also the level of roving gangs was mostly non-existent, not having to deal with no-go zones, because you lack the certain pigment or religion was also nice, sharing relatively the same values was a nice plus.
Just low crime rate you don't realise how much that helps, until you see an area that has such.
So don't mind me, why I lament the fact that many such things have been taken away from people and having nice cohesive society.
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Steve K
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Apr 22 2017, 12:23 PM
Post #71
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So what's your point Dan?
That successive governments have been way too lax on immigration because it had short term benefits and some other bugger would have to deal with the long term issues? No argument from me on that
But your posts seem to be tinged with a xenophobic hate of anyone you can categorise as being ethnically non white or religiously not CofE. If you're trying to whip up neanderthal hate for such then please just say and such views really will get shredded
Try, many have and many have failed. When someone does not care to called any of the buzzwords, people seems to fall at the first hurdle. You know what, sometimes is does have to do with ethnicity, some of my family do live in a homogeneous area and the difference is startling, people try to talk to me, firstly it was English which was a plus, but that got me for few first times, because most people in larger towns and cities ignore you, this place wasn't that small either. Also the level of roving gangs was mostly non-existent, not having to deal with no-go zones, because you lack the certain pigment or religion was also nice, sharing relatively the same values was a nice plus. Just low crime rate you don't realise how much that helps, until you see an area that has such. So don't mind me, why I lament the fact that many such things have been taken away from people and having nice cohesive society. So one question avoided, lets try another
What are you saying we should do then?
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 12:24 PM
Post #72
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:03 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Actually, you've made it super personal, I just said middle class which by just sheer per-capita, seems to far more supportive of immigration and multiculturalism, maybe because they hardly deal with it, could be something to do with it. Also annoyed with people who use token (insert ethnic here) card and say that's representative of everywhere. Alright, we've been more personal then objective. I just feel like the only person able to articulate the issues of working and increasingly lower-middle class people's issues, because I don't mind being called every buzzword like racist, xenophobe and so on, which has been used to shout down their issues.
You yourself have dismisssed other people's views because they are supposedly middle class. If you want people to listen maybe you should listen to them first instead of labelling as cartoonish middle class liberal stereotypes? No, no... if the label fits then wear it.
Don't try to wiggle out of it that the middle class seem to highly favour the aforementioned far more then anyone else, but don't normally have to deal with effects of such.
Also, I haven't dismissed anyone's views, I just found it funny when people use their ethnic token friend card as representative of current issues.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 22 2017, 12:27 PM
Post #73
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So what's your point Dan?
That successive governments have been way too lax on immigration because it had short term benefits and some other bugger would have to deal with the long term issues? No argument from me on that
But your posts seem to be tinged with a xenophobic hate of anyone you can categorise as being ethnically non white or religiously not CofE. If you're trying to whip up neanderthal hate for such then please just say and such views really will get shredded
Try, many have and many have failed. When someone does not care to called any of the buzzwords, people seems to fall at the first hurdle. You know what, sometimes is does have to do with ethnicity, some of my family do live in a homogeneous area and the difference is startling, people try to talk to me, firstly it was English which was a plus, but that got me for few first times, because most people in larger towns and cities ignore you, this place wasn't that small either. Also the level of roving gangs was mostly non-existent, not having to deal with no-go zones, because you lack the certain pigment or religion was also nice, sharing relatively the same values was a nice plus. Just low crime rate you don't realise how much that helps, until you see an area that has such. So don't mind me, why I lament the fact that many such things have been taken away from people and having nice cohesive society. Now this is interesting, you complain that people won't listen when you talk about what life is like for poor indigenous Brits.
I wonder if you would be interested in finding out what life is like for people of immigrant extraction, you know, the people who are apparently responsible for all of societies woes?
Because as someone with direct experience I could tell you all about it. Be rather hypocritical of you to refuse wouldn't it?
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Tigger
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Apr 22 2017, 12:30 PM
Post #74
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Oh yeah, that incredible large ethnic population of the 80s, you mean when it still had loads of Londoners who've now moved out, it's not even comparable.
The changes in the last 15 years, swamps any before that, you speaking about the time what the Tories are trying to achieve the tens of thousands of migration. . Clueless!
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 12:32 PM
Post #75
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:23 PM
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:20 PM
- Steve K
- Apr 22 2017, 12:09 PM
So what's your point Dan?
That successive governments have been way too lax on immigration because it had short term benefits and some other bugger would have to deal with the long term issues? No argument from me on that
But your posts seem to be tinged with a xenophobic hate of anyone you can categorise as being ethnically non white or religiously not CofE. If you're trying to whip up neanderthal hate for such then please just say and such views really will get shredded
Try, many have and many have failed. When someone does not care to called any of the buzzwords, people seems to fall at the first hurdle. You know what, sometimes is does have to do with ethnicity, some of my family do live in a homogeneous area and the difference is startling, people try to talk to me, firstly it was English which was a plus, but that got me for few first times, because most people in larger towns and cities ignore you, this place wasn't that small either. Also the level of roving gangs was mostly non-existent, not having to deal with no-go zones, because you lack the certain pigment or religion was also nice, sharing relatively the same values was a nice plus. Just low crime rate you don't realise how much that helps, until you see an area that has such. So don't mind me, why I lament the fact that many such things have been taken away from people and having nice cohesive society.
So one question avoided, lets try another What are you saying we should do then? We are already trying something by leaving the EU.
I have always said we need a about ten years of low migration, because about 300,000 leave each year, but it's far lower then the numbers coming in, but by lowering the incoming, numbers would drop naturally over time, so no need for mass deportations or death camps as some like to allude to in fear of people opposing mass migration.
In that time heavily train people for the upcoming mass automation we going to need a lot of technicians, also by lowering or at-least relying on natural births the large unemployment spike won't be such a large hit, but if we keep increasing numbers then we risk a far larger fallout.
Encourage people to move around to counter ghettos from forming.
Deportation for criminals, I mean any crime.
Long term unemployment giving the choice to leave.
Removal of faith schools to decrease the chance of radicalisation.
Removal of any programs showing favouritism.
There's more, but this is what comes to mind.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 12:34 PM
Post #76
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:30 PM
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Oh yeah, that incredible large ethnic population of the 80s, you mean when it still had loads of Londoners who've now moved out, it's not even comparable.
The changes in the last 15 years, swamps any before that, you speaking about the time what the Tories are trying to achieve the tens of thousands of migration. .
Clueless! Check the immigration statistics yourself, but again you find yourself in the wrong. Labour presided over the largest increase in immigration, if I'm not mistaking just over 15 years that happened, alright 17, not counting 2017.
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 12:37 PM
Post #77
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:09 PM
So what's your point Dan?
That successive governments have been way too lax on immigration because it had short term benefits and some other bugger would have to deal with the long term issues? No argument from me on that
But your posts seem to be tinged with a xenophobic hate of anyone you can categorise as being ethnically non white or religiously not CofE. If you're trying to whip up neanderthal hate for such then please just say and such views really will get shredded
Try, many have and many have failed. When someone does not care to called any of the buzzwords, people seems to fall at the first hurdle. You know what, sometimes is does have to do with ethnicity, some of my family do live in a homogeneous area and the difference is startling, people try to talk to me, firstly it was English which was a plus, but that got me for few first times, because most people in larger towns and cities ignore you, this place wasn't that small either. Also the level of roving gangs was mostly non-existent, not having to deal with no-go zones, because you lack the certain pigment or religion was also nice, sharing relatively the same values was a nice plus. Just low crime rate you don't realise how much that helps, until you see an area that has such. So don't mind me, why I lament the fact that many such things have been taken away from people and having nice cohesive society.
Now this is interesting, you complain that people won't listen when you talk about what life is like for poor indigenous Brits. I wonder if you would be interested in finding out what life is like for people of immigrant extraction, you know, the people who are apparently responsible for all of societies woes? Because as someone with direct experience I could tell you all about it. Be rather hypocritical of you to refuse wouldn't it? Well go on then.
But as addendum, my mum left my dad(well the other away round) and her new partner is from Antigua, so if anyone is thinking a person in a place where he's close to being a minority doesn't spend time with other groups, you are massively wrong.
But maybe and also many people from said other groups who have been here for a while, thinks the governments should maybe look out for us first, instead of filling their pockets first.
Edited by Dan1989, Apr 22 2017, 12:38 PM.
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Happy Hornet
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Apr 22 2017, 12:57 PM
Post #78
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Now this is interesting, you complain that people won't listen when you talk about what life is like for poor indigenous Brits. I wonder if you would be interested in finding out what life is like for people of immigrant extraction, you know, the people who are apparently responsible for all of societies woes? Because as someone with direct experience I could tell you all about it. Be rather hypocritical of you to refuse wouldn't it?
Well go on then. But as addendum, my mum left my dad(well the other away round) and her new partner is from Antigua, so if anyone is thinking a person in a place where he's close to being a minority doesn't spend time with other groups, you are massively wrong. But maybe and also many people from said other groups who have been here for a while, thinks the governments should maybe look out for us first, instead of filling their pockets first. Very well.
My wife and I are both British citizens (and proud of it) of immigrant extraction, Irish in my case, Indian in hers.
We were both brought up with a strong work ethic and have worked our entire adult lives and never claimed a penny in benefits.
We are as culturally British as anyone I'm a passionate supporter of England's national sports sides and my wife loves god awful (imo) popular British culture like soap operas, x-factor etc.
We work hard, get on well with neighbours and colleagues and have never given anyone a moments trouble.
Despite all this however, we've experienced both directly and indirectly a lot of hostility because of what we are up to and including physical violence. We've spent our whole lives having to justify and defend our right to live in our own country.
We've seen political parties being formed and campaigning to forcibly remove us from our home. Weve had people tell us that our children are an act of genocide against the indigenous British population.
Yet all we've heard in response to all this from those who bemoan a lack of social cohesion is a deafening silence. Surely deliberately alienating entire groups of people must be a contributing factor to the lack of social cohesion?
No we're told, it's all down to people like us, must be all that villanous tax paying we do.
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Steve K
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Apr 22 2017, 01:03 PM
Post #79
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So one question avoided, lets try another What are you saying we should do then?
We are already trying something by leaving the EU. I have always said we need a about ten years of low migration, because about 300,000 leave each year, but it's far lower then the numbers coming in, but by lowering the incoming, numbers would drop naturally over time, so no need for mass deportations or death camps as some like to allude to in fear of people opposing mass migration. In that time heavily train people for the upcoming mass automation we going to need a lot of technicians, also by lowering or at-least relying on natural births the large unemployment spike won't be such a large hit, but if we keep increasing numbers then we risk a far larger fallout. Encourage people to move around to counter ghettos from forming. Deportation for criminals, I mean any crime. Long term unemployment giving the choice to leave. Removal of faith schools to decrease the chance of radicalisation. Removal of any programs showing favouritism. There's more, but this is what comes to mind. OK, thanks for clarifying. Not that far from my position
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Dan1989
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Apr 22 2017, 01:23 PM
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- Apr 22 2017, 12:57 PM
- Dan1989
- Apr 22 2017, 12:37 PM
- Happy Hornet
- Apr 22 2017, 12:27 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Well go on then. But as addendum, my mum left my dad(well the other away round) and her new partner is from Antigua, so if anyone is thinking a person in a place where he's close to being a minority doesn't spend time with other groups, you are massively wrong. But maybe and also many people from said other groups who have been here for a while, thinks the governments should maybe look out for us first, instead of filling their pockets first.
Very well. My wife and I are both British citizens (and proud of it) of immigrant extraction, Irish in my case, Indian in hers. We were both brought up with a strong work ethic and have worked our entire adult lives and never claimed a penny in benefits. We are as culturally British as anyone I'm a passionate supporter of England's national sports sides and my wife loves god awful (imo) popular British culture like soap operas, x-factor etc. We work hard, get on well with neighbours and colleagues and have never given anyone a moments trouble. Despite all this however, we've experienced both directly and indirectly a lot of hostility because of what we are up to and including physical violence. We've spent our whole lives having to justify and defend our right to live in our own country. We've seen political parties being formed and campaigning to forcibly remove us from our home. Weve had people tell us that our children are an act of genocide against the indigenous British population. Yet all we've heard in response to all this from those who bemoan a lack of social cohesion is a deafening silence. Surely deliberately alienating entire groups of people must be a contributing factor to the lack of social cohesion? No we're told, it's all down to people like us, must be all that villanous tax paying we do. See - this is the problem as usual!
You are seeing this from a micro level, not a macro level.
A person for the most part is not an issue, even small groups aren't, it's when you increase the numbers that trouble starts to form, that's where I am, in large area where the people have no reason - be it Polish or Arab or whatever to integrate, but whenever people have brought this up we get the same excuse, similar to what you wrote, but that individual person other there is doing alright, we aren't going after that single person(well some do, but the majority don't), but looking at things on top down level.
Also, that Irish issue has always been weird to me, you are white, Celtic and western European I could only imagine it had something to with the past with Ireland leaving and/or Travellers which caused the friction or some other event that started it and the genocide part, yeah some do get upset by that, I'm apathetic on the subject.
But you do play the victim card well, for someone who espouses that person should avoid such a few posts ago, who'd of thought a ethnic British person had to deal with both religious and racial discrimination in less then 30 years, I guess some would see that as poetic justice for some of my ancestors.
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