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EU army
Topic Started: May 29 2017, 09:34 AM (633 Views)
Affa
Senior Member
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Following the G7 meet where D Trump criticised nations for not doing enough to support NATO, and the UK's eventual Brexit, Merkel has declared that Europe can no longer rely on her allies for defense.

Personally I agree with her summation ..... the market for arms sales just got bigger.


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Replies:
Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 07:23 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 06:56 AM
Mr Pat
May 30 2017, 06:21 AM
An EU Army was always on the cards
And for the second time I ask when?
It does not matter WHEN.

As you said pigs have more chance of flying on the moon.

You implied 'never', 'when' therefore doesn't matter.
Yes we all understand that you wish to rebut a post I made several months ago

But what is hard to understand is you can post
Mr Pat
May 30 2017, 06:21 AM
An EU Army was always on the cards
in this thread

And apparently your statement is worthless as you cannot put any timescale to it so will desperately seek diversion.

Go on just answer the question: when?
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Oddball
Senior Member
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Steve - If my memory serves me OK, I seem to remember that the members of NATO who went to Kosovo were variously 'robust' {political considerations] on the warring factions.

In Afghanistan, it was the US and UK that got involved first, other NATO countries tagged along later. I seem to remember something about the German troops taking 'weekends off' from their operational duties early on [shades of Hitler having his snooze on D-Day]- and they got the micky taken because of it.
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Mr Pat
Regular Member
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Steve K
May 31 2017, 08:53 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 07:23 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 06:56 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It does not matter WHEN.

As you said pigs have more chance of flying on the moon.

You implied 'never', 'when' therefore doesn't matter.
Yes we all understand that you wish to rebut a post I made several months ago

But what is hard to understand is you can post
Mr Pat
May 30 2017, 06:21 AM
An EU Army was always on the cards
in this thread

And apparently your statement is worthless as you cannot put any timescale to it so will desperately seek diversion.

Go on just answer the question: when?
I don't need to put a timescale on it.

I repeat, you implied it would NEVER happen. For it to NEVER happen means I don't have to put a time on it.

And of course, it doesn't make my statement worthless, more nonsense on your behalf. What ACTUALLY looks worthless is your adamant stance that an EU army will never happen, or that pigs will fly to/on the moon.  ::)

Keep digging tho'

Edited by Mr Pat, May 31 2017, 09:03 AM.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 08:59 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 08:53 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 07:23 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes we all understand that you wish to rebut a post I made several months ago

But what is hard to understand is you can post
Mr Pat
May 30 2017, 06:21 AM
An EU Army was always on the cards
in this thread

And apparently your statement is worthless as you cannot put any timescale to it so will desperately seek diversion.

Go on just answer the question: when?
I don't need to put a timescale on it.

I repeat, you implied it would NEVER happen. For it to NEVER happen means I don't have to put a time on it.
.
And I repeat you said it was always on the cards

Yet you haven't got a clue when. Now if you wanted to give the impression you just came to this thread on yet another of your stalking expeditions with a dose of Vote Leave BS (that even they now disown) stirred in then you really couldn't be doing a better job.
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Mr Pat
Regular Member
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Steve K
May 31 2017, 09:02 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 08:59 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 08:53 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't need to put a timescale on it.

I repeat, you implied it would NEVER happen. For it to NEVER happen means I don't have to put a time on it.
.
And I repeat you said it was always on the cards

Yet you haven't got a clue when. Now if you wanted to give the impression you just came to this thread on yet another of your stalking expeditions with a dose of Vote Leave BS (that even they now disown) stirred in then you really couldn't be doing a better job.
So.

I said it was always on the cards. Nothing worthless about that.

You said it would NEVER happen.

Little tip Steve: 'never say never', then it won't make a fool out of you.


;-)
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 09:09 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 09:02 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 08:59 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepneed to put a timescale on it.

I repeat, you implied it would NEVER happen. For it to NEVER happen means I don't have to put a time on it.
.
And I repeat you said it was always on the cards

Yet you haven't got a clue when. Now if you wanted to give the impression you just came to this thread on yet another of your stalking expeditions with a dose of Vote Leave BS (that even they now disown) stirred in then you really couldn't be doing a better job.
So.

I said it was always on the cards. Nothing worthless about that.

You said it would NEVER happen.

Little tip Steve: 'never say never', then it won't make a fool out of you.


;-)
Top tip Mr P: don't post something is "on the cards" when you know it is no such thing

I accept that I can't absolutely prove something will never happen but seems I am able to produce a logical argument to support the suggestion it's neither likely nor happening in our life times. You can't even put a date to when any steps towards this supposed EU Army will occur.

So lets try another tack: just what do you mean when you use the phrase 'EU Army'?
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Mr Pat
Regular Member
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Steve K
May 31 2017, 09:40 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 09:09 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 09:02 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepneed
So.

I said it was always on the cards. Nothing worthless about that.

You said it would NEVER happen.

Little tip Steve: 'never say never', then it won't make a fool out of you.


;-)
Top tip Mr P: don't post something is "on the cards" when you know it is no such thing

I accept that I can't absolutely prove something will never happen but seems I am able to produce a logical argument to support the suggestion it's neither likely nor happening in our life times. You can't even put a date to when any steps towards this supposed EU Army will occur.

So lets try another tack: just what do you mean when you use the phrase 'EU Army'?
I can post "on the cards", and I did.

It's not as conclusive in it's modality as NEVER.

I only had to hear Juncker utter his wishes to know it was on the cards. You tried, and failed to refute that with it will NEVER happen.

I don't need to put a date on it, that's you trying to save face.

'I'll get up in the morning.' that will be on the cards.

'What time?'

'I won't put an exact time on that, but waking up will be on the cards'.

Sorry, but I've seen you troll people on their dates before, and I'm not going down that route with you.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 10:02 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 09:40 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 09:09 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepneed
Top tip Mr P: don't post something is "on the cards" when you know it is no such thing

I accept that I can't absolutely prove something will never happen but seems I am able to produce a logical argument to support the suggestion it's neither likely nor happening in our life times. You can't even put a date to when any steps towards this supposed EU Army will occur.

So lets try another tack: just what do you mean when you use the phrase 'EU Army'?
I can post "on the cards", and I did.

It's not as conclusive in it's modality as NEVER.

I only had to hear Juncker utter his wishes to know it was on the cards. You tried, and failed to refute that with it will NEVER happen.

I don't need to put a date on it, that's you trying to save face.

'I'll get up in the morning.' that will be on the cards.

'What time?'

'I won't put an exact time on that, but waking up will be on the cards'.

Sorry, but I've seen you troll people on their dates before, and I'm not going down that route with you.
Oh I think we know who's the one trolling here.

But let's recap. You make a big statement and cannot answer a question on WHAT it is you say is on the cards or WHEN it is likely to happen. But you will go on an on about posts 8 months ago. WHY not address them then?

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Mr Pat
Regular Member
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Steve K
May 31 2017, 10:09 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 10:02 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 09:40 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepneed
I can post "on the cards", and I did.

It's not as conclusive in it's modality as NEVER.

I only had to hear Juncker utter his wishes to know it was on the cards. You tried, and failed to refute that with it will NEVER happen.

I don't need to put a date on it, that's you trying to save face.

'I'll get up in the morning.' that will be on the cards.

'What time?'

'I won't put an exact time on that, but waking up will be on the cards'.

Sorry, but I've seen you troll people on their dates before, and I'm not going down that route with you.
Oh I think we know who's the one trolling here.

But let's recap. You make a big statement and cannot answer a question on WHAT it is you say is on the cards or WHEN it is likely to happen. But you will go on an on about posts 8 months ago. WHY not address them then?

The only big statement made here was by you claiming the EU would never have an army.

Seems you've made yourself look a bit of a fool of with that statement.
!wav!
Edited by Mr Pat, May 31 2017, 11:54 AM.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 11:52 AM
Steve K
May 31 2017, 10:09 AM
Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 10:02 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepneed
Oh I think we know who's the one trolling here.

But let's recap. You make a big statement and cannot answer a question on WHAT it is you say is on the cards or WHEN it is likely to happen. But you will go on an on about posts 8 months ago. WHY not address them then?

The only big statement made here was by you claiming the EU would never have an army.

Seems you've made yourself look a bit of a fool of with that statement.
!wav!
Well Mr Pat if and when that happens I will own up to what I actually posted.

You do seem to be rather obsessed about what I posted 8 months ago (maybe you had a brain freeze at the time and couldn't debate the issue then). Meantime so we don't mistake you for a stalking troll, can we interest you in the concept of debate where you are prepared to actually answer questions on WHAT and WHEN you think in "on the cards" to come to pass. We could then look and see what evidence you or others have to support that proposition.

I will happily say that we'll see flying pigs on the moon before we see a Dutch General commanding a Polish Brigadier to require an Italian Colonel to order a French Lieutenant to get a Spanish Sergeant to show his squad of Greek, Lithuanian, Belgium, German and Hungarian squaddies how to use the radio system that had been ordered by a committee with all 27 then EU nations represented

As that is what would happen with a true EU Army




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Affa
Senior Member
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Mr Pat
May 31 2017, 06:23 AM
Affa
May 30 2017, 06:07 PM
Steve K
May 30 2017, 11:03 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

I do understand your reluctance to accept the possibility of there being an EU army, but caution that had the UK voted to remain there would not now be this determination that Europe is not protected ........ Your argument against was sound previously, but changing outlooks results in changed priorities.

Oh; and I still (as before) see no real objections to this army materialising. Merkel will not want the extra expenditure (German tax payers will be the major funders), but a Multinational army does open up doors for business and reductions in EU unemployment.

Who knows, we may see an exodus of East Europeans moving back to enlist.



He has said it as though it were fact, that the EU army will unequivocally never happen - and often used "snide" comments himself about 'Leavers' who stated this could happen. Ironic now, he's using "snide" arguments, because that was the basis of his attack when people raised such concerns in the run-up to Brexit. So, it's only right, that he is reminded of this.

There was nothing in my posting this thread to demean or criticise any poster here for their pre referendum stance.
What I do point out is that the UK leaving the EU has made the case for the EU to review its defence capability - and conclude that it must be strengthened.

Before the vote there was no such imperative and I tend to agree with what SteveK said in that regard, though not his phrasing.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Steve K
May 29 2017, 12:31 PM

It is not well known but many of Europe's armed forces (and the UK is one) can hardly fight if the USA doesn't want them to, so reliant are they on USA information systems and information

So, nothing to do with Suez then ?

For quite a few years GPS was "commercially" available at high accuracy in Europe (but not QUITE good enough to fly a radio controlled model aircraft by) but barely more than hiking resolution ("if after half an hour thee is no sign of a lake, ask yourself was it such a good idea to come out to the mountains ?") in the USA.

Then INMARSAT returned the "favour" Uncle Sam had done us by filling in the details from their geostationary satellites 36,000km overhead. Mutterings were heard of the "hey, some limey shitebag has just painted up washington the way we've painted up paris, berlin, krako, amsterdam, brussels and london. are we gonn astand for that ? are we hell, shoot those birds down" variety.

Oh, how we laughed.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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johnofgwent
Jun 2 2017, 05:09 AM
Steve K
May 29 2017, 12:31 PM

It is not well known but many of Europe's armed forces (and the UK is one) can hardly fight if the USA doesn't want them to, so reliant are they on USA information systems and information

So, nothing to do with Suez then ?

For quite a few years GPS was "commercially" available at high accuracy in Europe (but not QUITE good enough to fly a radio controlled model aircraft by) but barely more than hiking resolution ("if after half an hour thee is no sign of a lake, ask yourself was it such a good idea to come out to the mountains ?") in the USA.

Then INMARSAT returned the "favour" Uncle Sam had done us by filling in the details from their geostationary satellites 36,000km overhead. Mutterings were heard of the "hey, some limey shitebag has just painted up washington the way we've painted up paris, berlin, krako, amsterdam, brussels and london. are we gonn astand for that ? are we hell, shoot those birds down" variety.

Oh, how we laughed.
They can turn off the GPS anytime they like, they can even do it selectively. And they can turn off the intel or even send false intel knowing our whole fighting doctrine is tied to both.
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Affa
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Orwell was fifty years out - 2034

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