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Malta same sex marriages; Defying the wishes of the church
Topic Started: Jul 13 2017, 08:49 AM (327 Views)
C-too
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Malta which I believe is a mostly catholic country has followed Ireland and voted to allow same sex marriages against the wishes of the church. It seems that times are a changing.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/catholic-malta-legalizes-gay-marriage-church-objection-48583318
Edited by C-too, Jul 13 2017, 08:51 AM.
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Yeah Homosexuality is going the same way as adultery, fornication, masterbation and shopping on Sundays. Damn those secular devils...
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papasmurf
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gansao
Jul 13 2017, 09:01 AM
Yeah Homosexuality is going the same way as adultery, fornication, masterbation and shopping on Sundays. Damn those secular devils...
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire springs to mind.
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Steve K
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gansao
Jul 13 2017, 09:01 AM
Yeah Homosexuality is going the same way as adultery, fornication, masterbation and shopping on Sundays....
Someone does all those on a Sunday? ;-)

Jeez they must be knackered by Monday
Edited by Steve K, Jul 13 2017, 08:53 PM.
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Steve K
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To the point of the thread yes the Catholic Church and C of E are busted flushes. They can continue the bluff for a little while longer but they're in serious decline as no one really believes in their autocratic religions anymore
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Affa
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Steve K
Jul 13 2017, 11:09 AM
To the point of the thread yes the Catholic Church and C of E are busted flushes. They can continue the bluff for a little while longer but they're in serious decline as no one really believes in their autocratic religions anymore
Tim Farron and I think many Americans would disagree with you.
Christianity has undergone many changes over the centuries, and likely will see more in the future. It doesn't mean a lack of faith or less belief in the scriptures - it does mean accepting that humanity, the basis of Christian teaching, includes those whose sexuality does not follow the heterosexual norm. We are all sheep in the flock of human kind, and none are godforsaken.
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Steve K
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Affa
Jul 13 2017, 03:59 PM
Steve K
Jul 13 2017, 11:09 AM
To the point of the thread yes the Catholic Church and C of E are busted flushes. They can continue the bluff for a little while longer but they're in serious decline as no one really believes in their autocratic religions anymore
Tim Farron and I think many Americans would disagree with you.
Christianity has undergone many changes over the centuries, and likely will see more in the future. It doesn't mean a lack of faith or less belief in the scriptures - it does mean accepting that humanity, the basis of Christian teaching, includes those whose sexuality does not follow the heterosexual norm. We are all sheep in the flock of human kind, and none are godforsaken.
Oh don't get me wrong, I have a great respect for the Christian faith and I believe those religions that adhere to it will do OK

But the CofE and Catholicism that are based on an autocratic usurping of power to subdue the masses and have their elite live fat and happy are doomed and rightly so. It's just a matter of time and not too long
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Jul 13 2017, 11:07 AM
Someone does all those on a Sunday? ;-)

Jeez they mush be knackered by Monday
That may account for the rate of absenteeism in the workplace on Mondays.
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johnofgwent
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Steve K
Jul 13 2017, 04:06 PM
Affa
Jul 13 2017, 03:59 PM
Steve K
Jul 13 2017, 11:09 AM
To the point of the thread yes the Catholic Church and C of E are busted flushes. They can continue the bluff for a little while longer but they're in serious decline as no one really believes in their autocratic religions anymore
Tim Farron and I think many Americans would disagree with you.
Christianity has undergone many changes over the centuries, and likely will see more in the future. It doesn't mean a lack of faith or less belief in the scriptures - it does mean accepting that humanity, the basis of Christian teaching, includes those whose sexuality does not follow the heterosexual norm. We are all sheep in the flock of human kind, and none are godforsaken.
Oh don't get me wrong, I have a great respect for the Christian faith and I believe those religions that adhere to it will do OK

But the CofE and Catholicism that are based on an autocratic usurping of power to subdue the masses and have their elite live fat and happy are doomed and rightly so. It's just a matter of time and not too long
I think the danger of relying on faith as a driver or perhaps a guardian of legality is the busted flush here.

The shops act 1950 was enacted in England and Wales to regulate (aka exterminate) Sunday shopping. but as David Ramsden, a founder director of the lobbying organisation which I served as an elected member of the consultative council while I had a business, pointed out, the shops Act was not enacted in Scotland not was any similar measure seen necessary as the Presbyterian Church would never in a million years allow the exchange of mammon on the Sabbath....

Step forward 40 years and the Edinburgh Kirk bells are drowned out by the ringing of tills in Princes Street
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Oddball
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I'll leave the 'debate' to all you 'experts'.

I think I read somewhere that 'they have eyes and see they not, and ears and hear they not, for they are a rebellious people' - IMHO that does include rebs. within the Church.
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Steve K
Jul 13 2017, 11:07 AM
gansao
Jul 13 2017, 09:01 AM
Yeah Homosexuality is going the same way as adultery, fornication, masterbation and shopping on Sundays....
Someone does all those on a Sunday? ;-)

Jeez they must be knackered by Monday


Well the first three could all be within the same act and the last could a trip to the chemist .
The point is that Churches tend to reinterpret the religion they represent to suit the their needs.
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Happy Hornet
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Oddball
Jul 14 2017, 07:23 AM
I'll leave the 'debate' to all you 'experts'.

I think I read somewhere that 'they have eyes and see they not, and ears and hear they not, for they are a rebellious people' - IMHO that does include rebs. within the Church.
From the perspective of the Romans Jesus was a rebel.
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Oddball
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Happy Hornet
Jul 14 2017, 11:37 AM
Oddball
Jul 14 2017, 07:23 AM
I'll leave the 'debate' to all you 'experts'.

I think I read somewhere that 'they have eyes and see they not, and ears and hear they not, for they are a rebellious people' - IMHO that does include rebs. within the Church.
From the perspective of the Romans Jesus was a rebel.
Yup, and as far as the Jewish bods went, many saw Him as just a learned and charistmatic rabbi, while their 'top bods', those sucking up to their Roman overlords, saw Him as being a 'threat' Who challenged their hypocrisy.

Circa 70AD the Romans percieved most Jews as being rebs..

My personal take is to seek the TRUTH, even if it happens to be 'inconvenient' at times. Human 'feelings' so often lead individuals, and even cultures and/or societies over the moral and ethical cliff.
Edited by Oddball, Jul 15 2017, 06:42 AM.
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Barry
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I don't think it matters what Malta do to legalise same sex marriage. If it is a secular marriage I see no problem for them.
What the Catholic church think is irrelevant as they won't be solemnising any same sex marriages under the Mosta Dome.
Sadly they've got their own same sex club in the Vatican:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4667098/Vatican-police-break-gay-orgy-apartment.html

Whatever happens, God is unchanging according to scripture, so I don't suppose he'll be changing His mind, and He also gets the last say.
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johnofgwent
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Barry
Jul 14 2017, 09:40 PM
I don't think it matters what Malta do to legalise same sex marriage. If it is a secular marriage I see no problem for them.
What the Catholic church think is irrelevant as they won't be solemnising any same sex marriages under the Mosta Dome.
Sadly they've got their own same sex club in the Vatican:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4667098/Vatican-police-break-gay-orgy-apartment.html

Whatever happens, God is unchanging according to scripture, so I don't suppose he'll be changing His mind, and He also gets the last say.
My feelings on entering the Mosta Dome 28 years ago were that the place had become a den of thieves
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Curious Cdn
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papasmurf
Jul 13 2017, 09:33 AM
gansao
Jul 13 2017, 09:01 AM
Yeah Homosexuality is going the same way as adultery, fornication, masterbation and shopping on Sundays. Damn those secular devils...
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire springs to mind.
The defeat of the Taliban comes to mine.
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C-too
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johnofgwent
Jul 14 2017, 09:47 PM
Barry
Jul 14 2017, 09:40 PM
I don't think it matters what Malta do to legalise same sex marriage. If it is a secular marriage I see no problem for them.
What the Catholic church think is irrelevant as they won't be solemnising any same sex marriages under the Mosta Dome.
Sadly they've got their own same sex club in the Vatican:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4667098/Vatican-police-break-gay-orgy-apartment.html

Whatever happens, God is unchanging according to scripture, so I don't suppose he'll be changing His mind, and He also gets the last say.
My feelings on entering the Mosta Dome 28 years ago were that the place had become a den of thieves
Inside the Mosta Dome.

Malta same sex marriages

Pretty impressive, same sex marriages ? Doubt it.
Edited by C-too, Jul 15 2017, 06:50 AM.
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Barry
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johnofgwent
Jul 14 2017, 09:47 PM
My feelings on entering the Mosta Dome 28 years ago were that the place had become a den of thieves
Haven't been there since 1994, but it was very impressive.
Like most churches, they wanted some Maltese pounds off us to keep the place going. Sort of daylight robbery.
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Oddball
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Barry
Jul 15 2017, 11:32 AM
johnofgwent
Jul 14 2017, 09:47 PM
My feelings on entering the Mosta Dome 28 years ago were that the place had become a den of thieves
Haven't been there since 1994, but it was very impressive.
Like most churches, they wanted some Maltese pounds off us to keep the place going. Sort of daylight robbery.
I would imagine that if a tourist had genuinely come to the to pray, then they would not have been denied entry for that purpose. It would then be up to that person to cough up or not, in accordance to the depth of their pocket and their conscience.

I remember some decades back finding myself in a line for the ticket booth outside of Salisbury Cathedral - when I got to the booth I made an objection about having to purchase a ticket in order to enter "God's house", and that I would prefer it to be between me and my conscience as to how much donation I would make. I was allowed through and made a private donation, AFTER having said my prayers and had a look around - it was afterall built as a Catholic Cathedral some centuries before Henry VIIIs heretic church nicked it. :rubchin:
Edited by Oddball, Jul 15 2017, 02:29 PM.
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C-too
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Oddball
Jul 15 2017, 02:28 PM
Barry
Jul 15 2017, 11:32 AM
johnofgwent
Jul 14 2017, 09:47 PM
My feelings on entering the Mosta Dome 28 years ago were that the place had become a den of thieves
Haven't been there since 1994, but it was very impressive.
Like most churches, they wanted some Maltese pounds off us to keep the place going. Sort of daylight robbery.
I would imagine that if a tourist had genuinely come to the to pray, then they would not have been denied entry for that purpose. It would then be up to that person to cough up or not, in accordance to the depth of their pocket and their conscience.

I remember some decades back finding myself in a line for the ticket booth outside of Salisbury Cathedral - when I got to the booth I made an objection about having to purchase a ticket in order to enter "God's house", and that I would prefer it to be between me and my conscience as to how much donation I would make. I was allowed through and made a private donation, AFTER having said my prayers and had a look around - it was afterall built as a Catholic Cathedral some centuries before Henry VIIIs heretic church nicked it. :rubchin:
Part of the reason cathedrals and monasteries were nicked was because they had become the centre of wealth and power in the country, helped in part by the selling of entry into heaven to rich people. And also by being the beneficiaries of wills.

Don't know if you have ever visited Liverpool catholic cathedral, if you have you may have noticed it has a vague similarity to the Mosta Dome.
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Oddball
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C-too - Very true that some of the Bishops and Abbotts had lost their direction somewhat - but Henry VIIIs motive for church and land nicking was not to share wealth out among the poor; it was to add to his own wealth and those of his brown nosing noble mates. A 'Robin Hood' he most certainly was not.

Yes, I have been to 'Paddy's Wigwam' in Liverpool, but other than being of circular construction I don't see much similarity to Mosta Dome. The nearest I have been to Malta, is seeing the lights od Valetta in the distance from a troopship [in 1955]. We had pulled in closer than normal and stopped in order that a baby dangerously ill with diptheria, its mother, a doctor and a nurse could be taken by a fast RAF launch to Valetta Military Hospital. I never did find out if the baby survived.
Edited by Oddball, Jul 15 2017, 03:18 PM.
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C-too
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Oddball
Jul 15 2017, 03:08 PM
C-too - Very true that some of the Bishops and Abbotts had lost their direction somewhat - but Henry VIIIs motive for church and land nicking was not to share wealth out among the poor; it was to add to his own wealth and those of his brown nosing noble mates. A 'Robin Hood' he most certainly was not.

Yes, I have been to 'Paddy's Wigwam' in Liverpool, but other than being of circular construction I don't see much similarity to Mosta Dome. The nearest I have been to Malta, is seeing the lights od Valetta in the distance from a troopship [in 1955]. We had pulled in closer than normal and stopped in order that a baby dangerously ill with diptheria, its mother, a doctor and a nurse could be taken by a fast RAF launch to Valetta Military Hospital. I never did find out if the baby survived.
Correct, not a Robin Hood, but as king he probably thought that he should be the most powerful in the land.

I did say a vague resemblance, with possibly some influence on the design. If I can put it another way it probably has more look, no matter how vague, of the Mosta Dome than to any other cathedrals that I have visited.
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