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| Effing cyclists | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 19 2017, 10:08 AM (807 Views) | |
| papasmurf | Aug 19 2017, 10:08 AM Post #1 |
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I went out on the sidecar outfit we use for long distance rallies earlier today to check everything was working OK after resetting the ABS computer. It is bad enough having to put up with tourist car drivers who if brains were dynamite they would no blow the wax out of their ears. Today added to those were similar on bicycles. One came at me on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend. Luckily I was only doing around 10 MPH because I have no desire to load myself into one of the large agricultures machines that are on the road at this time of year. I really think I must get one of these:- Edited by papasmurf, Aug 19 2017, 10:11 AM.
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| papasmurf | Aug 29 2017, 06:49 PM Post #81 |
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One of my young relatives had a "stunt" or "trick" bicycle with no brakes and a fixed rear sprocket. I doubt it would have been possible ride it on the road anyway. |
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| Rich | Aug 29 2017, 06:55 PM Post #82 |
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And what was your opinion of your young relative riding such a contraption? |
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| johnofgwent | Aug 29 2017, 09:04 PM Post #83 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Well if we're going there, the Blaenavon Iron Works Steam Punk Extravaganza has a circus tricks stall featuring stunt unicycle and stilt lessons, the grand-daughter took to both like a duck to water, but she wouldn't use either on the high street ... |
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| Steve K | Aug 29 2017, 09:12 PM Post #84 |
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Once and future cynic
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Yep So was the pedestrian but you can't charge the dead |
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| Rich | Aug 29 2017, 11:59 PM Post #85 |
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Well now here's a question for you (rhetorical) if you cannot charge a dead person, how can the whole of humanity hold Hitler responsible for the holocaust when his or even Eva Brauns remains were never officially found,.....we know what he did, and we know what the female pedestrian did.....what is the difference? |
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| Oddball | Aug 30 2017, 12:33 AM Post #86 |
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My car's first MOT is due the end of next month, and having a little over five and a half thousand miles [odometer reading] I am reasonably confident it should sail through. |
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| papasmurf | Aug 30 2017, 07:37 AM Post #87 |
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Well I did wish I was as fit as he was at the time. That type of bike is what is states on the tin used for tricks or stunts not on public roads. |
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| Steve K | Aug 30 2017, 09:25 AM Post #88 |
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Once and future cynic
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The difference is you cannot put on charge in a criminal court someone who cannot defend themself. And guess what, the dead are rather unable to so defend But you can come to a bleeding obvious conclusion and can even if you so wish get a legal judgement that such is true. But no one is going to put a corpse in clink for a stretch. |
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| Rich | Aug 30 2017, 11:32 AM Post #89 |
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Well, that is a reasonably polite reply. But on a lighter note, stranger things have happened at sea. http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/The-Hanging-of-the-Hartlepool-Monkey/
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| Oddball | Aug 30 2017, 08:48 PM Post #90 |
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Steve - Didn't Olly Cromwell's carcass get dug up by order of Charles II, and recieve a wierd High Court action, declared a traitor and guilty of regicide and waging war on the people, then tarred and caged, and put up on public display until he fell to bits? |
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| Ewill | Aug 30 2017, 10:41 PM Post #91 |
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There is apparently doubt that it was Cromwell's headless corpse exhumed http://www.olivercromwell.org/faqs2.htm |
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| Steve K | Aug 30 2017, 10:43 PM Post #92 |
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Once and future cynic
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PS this is 2017 we're talking about not the 17th century and I posted using the present tense |
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| johnofgwent | Aug 31 2017, 06:58 PM Post #93 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Would you mind awfully pointing me to wherever you got this idea from I've noticed your claim that this woman was on her phone when she stepped into the road. Where, pray, does it say it is ILLEGAL for a pedestrian to be using a phone while walking in the same way it is now (but wasn't for an awfully long time) for a car driver to use one while driving. Stupid, maybe. Increasing her liability for her own end, maybe, but Illegal ? Not sure about that... Incidentally, while Boris made various noises that the cyclists killed by HGV's while they pedalled to music relayed from a phone or device to in-ear headphones, he stopped short of calling THEIR acts illegal ... And where, other than in the testimony of this now convicted criminal, does it say she was on the phone when this took place ? All I can find is a two line statement on the Daily Mail page here that an accident investigator, instructed to report on the incident for the court, ...
I see a dozen other accounts in the google search and none mention the dead woman was using a phone. |
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| Steve K | Aug 31 2017, 11:33 PM Post #94 |
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Once and future cynic
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John evidence given by three accounts in the case was (a) that she had been looking at her phone and (b) that the impact knocked her phone across the ground and (c) she was crossing the road ignoring a nearby crossing. The police had tried but totally failed to use CCTV evidence to counter the position that she was a jaywalker on her phone And while there is no offence in the UK of jaywalking, there is of manslaughter so if the deaths had been reversed she would very much have been at risk of being so charged because it was very foreseeable that such idiot action would recklessly endanger others. And as was established in Paramasivan v Wicks a pedestrian can very much be liable for all or most of the damages in a human v machine collision. |
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| Rich | Aug 31 2017, 11:44 PM Post #95 |
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Your explanation is most interesting....would you equate that scenario to a person throwing themselves into the path of a train passing through a station and causing the train driver to jam on the brakes and perhaps injuring a/some passenger/s on the train? Yes, I know it sounds morbid, but I just thought it worthy of asking. |
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| Steve K | Aug 31 2017, 11:56 PM Post #96 |
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Once and future cynic
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it's arguableI've always thought the estate of anyone that so commits suicide should be forfeit to help compensate the train passengers, the railway and most of all the train drivers some of which never really get over it. |
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| Rich | Sep 1 2017, 12:03 AM Post #97 |
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Thank you for replying, I suppose in the event that the unfortunate suicidee was homeless and penniless then any compensation would fall into the lap of the taxpayer. I do not know of any court case that has set such a precedent. Maybe never.
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| Steve K | Sep 1 2017, 12:14 AM Post #98 |
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Once and future cynic
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Quite People (probably rightly) just don't have the heart to go after the dead but committing suicide like that is extremely selfish and uncaring for the damage it does to innocent drivers. |
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| ranger121 | Sep 1 2017, 12:32 AM Post #99 |
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Drivers are compensated, counselled and given as much paid leave as is necessary after a 'one under' at the expense of the rail company. Don't see how a person's estate could be claimed or liened in this way; one could be financially ruining an innocent wife or husband, for example. |
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| Steve K | Sep 1 2017, 01:12 AM Post #100 |
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Once and future cynic
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Something for the suicidee to bear in mind then. Instead we are seeing an increase in suicide by train and an increase in rush hour timing of such to create the greatest disturbance. |
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| johnofgwent | Sep 1 2017, 04:48 AM Post #101 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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OK thanks for that my first thought is of course having sat through a murder, rape and arson trial (in the public area !) i would be the first to admit that the picture painted by the media is not remotely reflective of the full picture painted in the mind of a person sat where I was, not least because the law imposes reporting restrictions that make it quite illegal for a newspaper to report the facts of what is said, word for word, in a room into which any member of the public may walk, pretty much at any time, subject solely to there being room to accommodate them being room and their keeping the queen's peace while there. BUT As I point out, I have found dozens of accounts of this trial in google, and none of the reports i have read include any evidence whatsoever that she was using a mobile phone and jaywalking save "allegations" from a now convicted criminal that her phone was making noises as she lay on the ground after their heads collided and again his allegation that the woman did not use a pedestrian crossing. Again, I was sitting in a pub in my lunch break yesterday reading a press release from CAMRA claiming "journalists had been more than happy to publish a totally false statement from an organisation pledged to eradicate alcohol from our society that drinking as little as half a pint of beer a day destroyed your health when the report actually said drinking that much in large amounts in one go did that, whilst drinking a pint a day actually improved your health, reduced your blood pressure, etc, etc etc and that when challenged on the falsehood of their reports, the journalists chose to either delete the whole article or rewrite it to say that drinking large quantities was bad for you without including the counter finding that drinking small quantities was actually seen to do the opposite" I also remember ian hislop saying of those reporting maxwell's death that the united kingdom does not allow the offence of libelling the dead. In Hislops case of course he was remarking cynically on the fact he had made accusations while maxwell was alive and paid a heavy price for it, while now the world was jumping on his bandwagon. I on the other hand would point to the truth of Hislop's statement and ask why newspapers now shrink from making these statemets more widely known given that there can be no comeback as the dead have no reputation in law that can be defended... And to your statement "The police had tried but totally failed to use CCTV evidence to counter the position that she was a jaywalker on her phone" i have two thoughts. First of all, as i have said elsewhere and iirc in this thread already, some years ago now (the car was an 'L' reg from brand new so this was circa 95/96) I was stopped, in neutral, with the engine running and the handbrake on, at a red light at a junction at a shopping centre in a suburb of north east cardiff when a yob on a bmx bike raced down a pavement he had no right to be on, tried to wheelie / jump a "chicane" barrier erected specifically to stop cyclists doing what he was doing, got it badly wrong and crashed headlong into the front wing and front door of my stationary vehicle, doing a thousand pounds of damage to my bodywork and smashing the windscreen with his head, as the force of his impact threw him sideways across my car and into the pass of an oncoming bus. As the bus screeched to a halt throwing passengers around, this yob got up and ran off into woodland, never to be seen again, leaving his wrecked BMX bike in my wheel arch. The police who attended arrested me and "proceeded to try and totally fail to bring evidence that I was responsible for the incident as my car was present at the scene" but took their fucking time to admit there was no case to answer and the words they used in their letter sent a full three months after the incident made it quite clear they felt i was the guilty party who was getting off on the basis they could not find any evidence to stick me with. Indeed, I find a distinct parallel with your words there and the drugs raid the police made on the home of the MP for the constituency adjacent to mine after he launched a very public campaign to legalise cannabis. The police, he said at the time, "tried but totally failed to find evidence of drug abuse on my part in my home as evidence of my position onlegalisation of what i feel to be a tremendous and pointless waste of police time and effort" Sorry Steve, but legal proceedings fail on the grounds of insufficient evidence every day and the legal position (south of the scottish border where the verdict not proven is allowed) following such is that the accused had been tried and found innocent of the crime of which they awere accused. Furthermore as this thread has gone into in nit picking detail "gross negligence manslaughter" requires a duty of care failure to be proven. If the cyclist had no duty of care to the pedestrian, the pedestrian equally can have had no duty of care to the cyclist. the "third case" of manslaughter, which I posited earlier may and IMO should have been applied, death having occurred through the illegal act of someone, an act "a sober and reasonable person ought to have realised would render harm", cannot possibly apply either; while the cyclist was committing an act that was quite illegal, using a vehicle legally defined as unfit for use on the public highway, by your own admission, "jaywalking", an act that is illegal in the united states because the car industry demanded motorists have rights over the pedestrian that were never, ever given in this country, is not illegal here, neither is using a phone while walking. So the third way one can face a manslaughter charge cannot possibly apply to "a road user on foot" as the highway code calls them, in this scenario. Edited by johnofgwent, Sep 1 2017, 04:59 AM.
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| Ewill | Sep 1 2017, 10:28 AM Post #102 |
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There's another case (which I can't find and can't remember the name of)with a similar decision where a headphones wearing pedestrian (early 20s) suddenly walked across the road without looking in front of a police car on a blue light A pedestrian without headphones who looked would have seen the approaching car , lights and heard the siren |
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| Ewill | Sep 1 2017, 10:32 AM Post #103 |
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When I used to commute daily there seemed to be at least one jumper a week on the London tube network alone Sympathy from regular passengers soon goes out of the window when faced with yet another lengthy delay |
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| johnofgwent | Sep 1 2017, 11:05 AM Post #104 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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It's also why you have the double doors at Canary wharf. And yes, some person chose to end their existence by jumping off a bridge somewhere Acton / Ealing Broadway. They paralysed the network out as far as Maidenhead, cost me a wasted day and there was very little love for the tortured soul expressed by the thousand or so people I met as a result.. |
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| Steve K | Sep 1 2017, 12:40 PM Post #105 |
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Once and future cynic
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Yep train suicides, frankly hanging is too good for them And John I suspect those double doors on those lines is more due to the awful occurrences of people pushing others on to the tracks both intentionally and accidentally. |
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| Rich | Sep 2 2017, 03:39 PM Post #106 |
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Well, where I work and about 10 years ago we had a ward manager (I'll not mention his name) aged about 35, his young wife went to school to pick up their two young boys and when they returned home they founded him hanging (dead) from a rope secured to the upstairs landing bannister down into the hallway entrance. Those three people must live with that image for the rest of their lives. How utterly awful for them that must be, I cannot begin to imagine. |
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it's arguable

2:25 PM Jul 11