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A supposed Letter about the Holocaust; off topic posts from May is going to make Brexit . . .
Topic Started: Sep 14 2017, 05:15 PM (624 Views)
Tytoalba
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I was sent this Email from a source unknown which is a thought on immigration.


Subject: FW: Who really died at Auschwitz?
 
  overlong copied text modedited down to the first link found to the supposed letter as quoted in the OP
Edited by Steve K, Sep 15 2017, 10:11 AM.
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C-too
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Mathew, 32 to 34.

The explanation for the text Mathew 32 to 34. From the website below.

---"The one key element in this lengthy passage is the word "sword," and its meaning is now clear. It indicates that following Jesus in his original Jewish society may not bring peace to a family, but may "split" it up, the precise function of a metaphorical sword. Are his disciples ready for that? This kind of spiritual sword invisibly severs a man from his father, and daughter from her mother, and so on (Micah 7:6). Given Jesus’ own family resistance early on (they later came around), it is only natural he would say that no matter what the cost, one must follow him to the end, even if it means giving up one’s family. But this applies only if the family rejects the new convert, not if the family accepts him in his new faith; he must not reject them, because the whole point of Jesus’ advent is to win as many people to his side as possible, even if this divides the world in two, but never violently."---

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/matthew_10_34.htm
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Steve K
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Rubbish C-Too (and you're quoting the wrong section)

Here's the text of the verse Pro V quoted with the preceding verses that set its context

Quote:
 
10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.


As hateful as anything you'll find in the Quran and it's the NT you like extolling
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Oddball
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Steve K
Sep 17 2017, 05:55 PM
Rubbish C-Too (and you're quoting the wrong section)

Here's the text of the verse Pro V quoted with the preceding verses that set its context

Quote:
 
10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.


As hateful as anything you'll find in the Quran and it's the NT you like extolling
Steve - By the sword Jesus meant controversy, and thus division - in other words He was in effect saying that not everyone would 'piss in the same bucket', regarding what He said, instructed and did. A sword of controversy, mon ami - summat wot was not unknown in general human nature. When was it that humanity last all sung from the same hymn sheet? Jesus ideal was to bring peace, but He knew well the discordant nature of humanity.

Please stop playing silly wotsits, you ought to know better. :banghead: :banghead: :shitstorm:
Edited by Oddball, Sep 17 2017, 07:22 PM.
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Steve K
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Oddball
Sep 17 2017, 07:21 PM
Steve K
Sep 17 2017, 05:55 PM
Rubbish C-Too (and you're quoting the wrong section)

Here's the text of the verse Pro V quoted with the preceding verses that set its context

Quote:
 
10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.


As hateful as anything you'll find in the Quran and it's the NT you like extolling
Steve - By the sword Jesus meant controversy, and thus division - in other words He was in effect saying that not everyone would 'piss in the same bucket', regarding what He said, instructed and did. A sword of controversy, mon ami - summat wot was not unknown in general human nature. When was it that humanity last all sung from the same hymn sheet? Jesus ideal was to bring peace, but He knew well the discordant nature of humanity.

Please stop playing silly wotsits, you ought to know better. :banghead: :banghead: :shitstorm:
You know what Oddball. You are either saying your Jesus was effin stupid to use that wording or you are trying to mislead us all

None of those alternatives is good
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Pro Veritas
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Isn't it funny when the Bible talks of the sword and violence, people come along and says we shouldn't take it literally, because Christianity isn't really violent.
But those same people say we should take mentions of violence in the Qu'ran literally, because Islam really is violent.

I can't be the only who thinks this level of hypocrisy to be nauseating.

All The Best
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Pro Veritas
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Oddball
Sep 17 2017, 07:21 PM
When was it that humanity last all sung from the same hymn sheet? Jesus ideal was to bring peace, but He knew well the discordant nature of humanity.

Well if we take the Bible at its word that was just before an apparently peace loving God set us all against one another at the Tower Of Babel just for daring to dream that we might one day not need him.

This?

This is the god you worship, and then claim Allah and Islam are barbaric?


All The Best
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Rich
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Pro Veritas
Sep 17 2017, 08:54 PM
Isn't it funny when the Bible talks of the sword and violence, people come along and says we shouldn't take it literally, because Christianity isn't really violent.
But those same people say we should take mentions of violence in the Qu'ran literally, because Islam really is violent.

I can't be the only who thinks this level of hypocrisy to be nauseating.

All The Best
I have never heard of the "daughters of charity" before listening to "file on 4".......my dad from county Cork told me how the nuns there treated the kids in the school.

Hypocrisy is the right word, imo.

This took place in the 40's and at Smyllum park in Lanarkshire, I found it harrowing what adults can do to defenceless children.

If you take the time to listen, look out for the horrendous figure of kids in unmarked graves in the same graveyard as the nuns and priests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0938tnj#play
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Jessamy Bride
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In the Bible there is tales of incest, child marriage, barbaric executions, betrayal and so on

Things that in present day we would consider abhorrent.

Fundamentalists want to get back to basics and take their religion from a previous age.
It may be that those edicts just don't fit anymore.
Edited by Jessamy Bride, Sep 17 2017, 09:20 PM.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
daughters of charity


There is a danger when extremely pious people live in their own World and are allowed
carte blanche to operate without accountability.
There is no suggestion that those children were murdered
but they may well have been strictly disciplined (abusively) and not given enough respect.
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 17 2017, 08:54 PM
Isn't it funny when the Bible talks of the sword and violence, people come along and says we shouldn't take it literally, because Christianity isn't really violent.
But those same people say we should take mentions of violence in the Qu'ran literally, because Islam really is violent.

I can't be the only who thinks this level of hypocrisy to be nauseating.

All The Best
You most certainly are not the only one
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C-too
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Steve K
Sep 17 2017, 05:55 PM
Rubbish C-Too (and you're quoting the wrong section)

Here's the text of the verse Pro V quoted with the preceding verses that set its context

Quote:
 
10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
As hateful as anything you'll find in the Quran and it's the NT you like extolling
Nonsense Steve, I am quoting the significant part i.e. the interpretation AFTER reading the preceding verses. I would have thought it was obvious that the interpretation doesn't mean anything without first reading that which it was an interpretation of.
At no time does the NT preach violence and killing. You have misinterpret the meaning of the word sword in this context.

Perhaps you would care to point out a different quote or claim from the NT that backs up your "hateful" interpretation ?
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C-too
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Pro Veritas
Sep 17 2017, 08:54 PM
Isn't it funny when the Bible talks of the sword and violence, people come along and says we shouldn't take it literally, because Christianity isn't really violent.
But those same people say we should take mentions of violence in the Qu'ran literally, because Islam really is violent.

I can't be the only who thinks this level of hypocrisy to be nauseating.

All The Best
Muhammad led raids on the Caravans travelling to and from Medina. IIRC Muhammad fought in three wars. Muhammad led 10,000 men to the gates of Medina the obvious interpretation being --'do as you are told or we will make you do as you are told'--. All of this after he had laid down the foundations of Islam.

Jesus never had an army, he never led one, he never went on foraging raids and Jesus never fought in a war. To my knowledge all he did was to preach. If only Muhammad had done the same.

I find it extremely nauseating when people fail to recognise the huge differences between these two men.
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I look at Christianity as a religion of peace that has been corrupted into a church of war.
You could consider Islam as a religion of war that has been toned downed to suit .
You could and should IMO look at both religious texts as a series of allegories and not accurate historical documents.
You won't lead yourselves up so many blind alleys that way...
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Steve K
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gansao
Sep 18 2017, 08:04 AM
I look at Christianity as a religion of peace that has been corrupted into a church of war.
You could consider Islam as a religion of war that has been toned downed to suit .
You could and should IMO look at both religious texts as a series of allegories and not accurate historical documents.
You won't lead yourselves up so many blind alleys that way...
:thumbsup: fair analysis

Problem is the fundamentalists of all ilks take the paragraphs they pick and choose too literally and then cry foul when examples are used to show the hypocrisy of such an approach

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Oddball
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Steve K
Sep 17 2017, 07:55 PM
Oddball
Sep 17 2017, 07:21 PM
Steve K
Sep 17 2017, 05:55 PM
Rubbish C-Too (and you're quoting the wrong section)

Here's the text of the verse Pro V quoted with the preceding verses that set its context


Quoting limited to 3 levels deep10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Steve - By the sword Jesus meant controversy, and thus division - in other words He was in effect saying that not everyone would 'piss in the same bucket', regarding what He said, instructed and did. A sword of controversy, mon ami - summat wot was not unknown in general human nature. When was it that humanity last all sung from the same hymn sheet? Jesus ideal was to bring peace, but He knew well the discordant nature of humanity.

Please stop playing silly wotsits, you ought to know better. :banghead: :banghead: :shitstorm:
You know what Oddball. You are either saying your Jesus was effin stupid to use that wording or you are trying to mislead us all

None of those alternatives is good
I am saying neither - it is YOU that choose to interpret otherwise.

You have to always factor in time, place, and culture in order to extract the true meaning of words.


Popcorn: Popcorn: Popcorn: Popcorn:
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Oddball
Sep 18 2017, 10:18 AM
Steve K
Sep 17 2017, 07:55 PM
Oddball
Sep 17 2017, 07:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
You know what Oddball. You are either saying your Jesus was effin stupid to use that wording or you are trying to mislead us all

None of those alternatives is good
I am saying neither - it is YOU that choose to interpret otherwise.

You have to always factor in time, place, and culture in order to extract the true meaning of words.


Popcorn: Popcorn: Popcorn: Popcorn:


Well you could say that no one was there at the time to write his words down or even that the words have been slightly changed by interpretation or anything else but that does let in the possibility to challenge any word or phrase to reinterpret.
The clergy of yesterday were no fools. They knew that the Bible contained enough contradictions and fuzzy phrases so that more than one interpretations could be gleaned from it.
It makes enough sense to me that Christ said that his teachings will lead to misery and war but it may make sense to others than Christs mission was misery and war..or anything else
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Tytoalba
Sep 14 2017, 05:15 PM
I was sent this Email from a source unknown which is a thought on immigration.


Subject: FW: Who really died at Auschwitz?
 
  overlong copied text modedited down to the first link found to the supposed letter as quoted in the OP


Did the UK debate whether to remove the holocaust from schools curriculum lately? Nobody told me. In fact I had never studied anything about it when I went to school in the 60 and easily 70s .
Were my old teachers part of the plot?
AFAIK know white supremacists believe the holocaust was a hoax .
Everyone has their take on WW2. The Russians do not recognise the role of the rest of the allies much and the Chinese are the same. All of us put our own dead soldiers and victims over the others ( how much credit do Indian soldiers get for their part in WW2?).
Millions of Muslims have migrated into Europe ..some of this rabble have become Doctors,businessmen,lawyers, artists, etc in fact most of my GPS are Muslims ,some if our dentists are, my solicitor who is fighting a joint action against for my trade union is a Muslim. Are they stupid and ignorant?
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papasmurf
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gansao
Sep 18 2017, 10:55 AM

Did the UK debate whether to remove the holocaust from schools curriculum lately? Nobody told me. In fact I had never studied anything about it when I went to school in the 60 and easily 70s .
Were my old teachers part of the plot?
There was so much information about the Holocaust via TV documentaries at the time, (and still is via repeats) it did not need to be a curriculum subject.

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papasmurf
Sep 18 2017, 11:35 AM
gansao
Sep 18 2017, 10:55 AM

Did the UK debate whether to remove the holocaust from schools curriculum lately? Nobody told me. In fact I had never studied anything about it when I went to school in the 60 and easily 70s .
Were my old teachers part of the plot?
There was so much information about the Holocaust via TV documentaries at the time, (and still is via repeats) it did not need to be a curriculum subject.



Don't address me with this. Address the point in the link.
But as an aside this is a non point. In the 60s there were 2 or 3 channels.I don't know why you even posted this let alone as a reply to my point.
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papasmurf
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gansao
Sep 18 2017, 11:41 AM


Don't address me with this. Address the point in the link.
But as an aside this is a non point. In the 60s there were 2 or 3 channels.I don't know why you even posted this let alone as a reply to my point.
What point in the link? It all appears to be neo-Nazi bullshit to me.
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papasmurf
Sep 18 2017, 11:55 AM
gansao
Sep 18 2017, 11:41 AM


Don't address me with this. Address the point in the link.
But as an aside this is a non point. In the 60s there were 2 or 3 channels.I don't know why you even posted this let alone as a reply to my point.
What point in the link? It all appears to be neo-Nazi bullshit to me.


I would read your own post again.
Leave me out of it.
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