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Theresa May's speech in Florence; merged with two year deal
Topic Started: Sep 21 2017, 11:59 AM (728 Views)
Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Well it's still a day away but already the rumours are starting

Quote:
 
Theresa May's speech on Brexit in Italy on Friday will represent an "open and generous offer" to the rest of the EU, a cabinet minister has told the BBC.

It is thought that might include a guarantee that no EU country would lose out from changes to the EU's current budget as a result of the UK leaving.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580

Popcorn:
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papasmurf
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Florence always bring The Magic Roundabout to mind.
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Rich
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papasmurf
Sep 21 2017, 12:08 PM
Florence always bring The Magic Roundabout to mind.
And Brian the snail brings to mind the pace of the EU......boing.
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C-too
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In her speech in Florence tomorrow, May to outline her attempt to get a two year deal on leaving the EU.


https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-09-21/britains-may-wants-two-year-transition-deal-with-eu-bbc
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Tigger
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They need us more than we need them.

A trade deal will be the easiest thing in human history.

We'll bypass Barnier and talk to Merkel/Macron directly.

They'll get no money from us.

The Great Tory Bake off.

Le Pen, Grillo, Shultz will collapse the EU.

Italy's/Spain's/Paddies banks are about to collapse.

The Euro will be dead by Christmas.

We've changed our tune a bit haven't we? I suspect they'll fuck us around and say not good enough no matter what is offered, as I've already mentioned many over the North Sea regard now as the transitional period, why risk us hanging around after we've allegedly left because we might never fully go?
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Pro Veritas
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Tigger
Sep 21 2017, 09:18 PM
I suspect they'll fuck us around and say not good enough no matter what is offered,
And you still defend them and lambaste us?! :facepalm:



All The Best
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Tigger
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Pro Veritas
Sep 21 2017, 09:23 PM
Tigger
Sep 21 2017, 09:18 PM
I suspect they'll fuck us around and say not good enough no matter what is offered,
And you still defend them and lambaste us?! :facepalm:



All The Best
It's called payback, at times we've acted like see you next Tuesdays for getting on for three decades now, they'll finally be shot of us and we can have the same access to a market of near half a billion as the likes of Sri Lanka, Botswana and Fiji.

Did you hear Barnier talking about banking reform and tackling tax evasion today? Not wasting much time are they? :)
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 21 2017, 09:23 PM
Tigger
Sep 21 2017, 09:18 PM
I suspect they'll fuck us around and say not good enough no matter what is offered,
And you still defend them and lambaste us?! :facepalm:



All The Best
Who was defending them? No one, observation is not endoresement but maybe that's too subtle for some to understand.

Leavers in general do need to do a crash course in Real Politik as does May. Negotiating in public is dumber than a dumb thing.
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Tigger
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Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 09:48 PM
]Who was defending them? No one, observation is not endoresement but maybe that's too subtle for some to understand.

Leavers in general do need to do a crash course in Real Politik as does May. Negotiating in public is dumber than a dumb thing.
The game is up and May knows it, it's now time to get real and stop bullshitting the British public.
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Steve K
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Tigger
Sep 21 2017, 09:54 PM
Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 09:48 PM
]Who was defending them? No one, observation is not endoresement but maybe that's too subtle for some to understand.

Leavers in general do need to do a crash course in Real Politik as does May. Negotiating in public is dumber than a dumb thing.
The game is up and May knows it, it's now time to get real and stop bullshitting the British public.
Well it's not done until it's done so she still has time to give this speech:

"Today I have sacked Boris and Fox and have instructed Davis to pursue a more understanding stance. I am also asking Donald Tusk to work with the council of ministers to propose a revision of the 2016 deal to stay in the EU that we propose to put to the British people in May 2018 as the alternative to the agreements that Davis and Barnier develop"

of course she won't but that's what Thatcher would have done. Git she may have been but at least she was a real politician and cared more about the UK than her own arse

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Tigger
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Bloomberg currently has an article no Brexiteer will want to read, the strong and stable EU has given May one choice, pay the bill.

All the back channels the Tories boasted they would use to win round individual EU governments to our point of view have been firmly shut with all talks having to go through Barnier and his office.

How long now before a rebellion breaks out on the Tory back benches over this dent to the false pride that has been carefully nurtured?
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Rich
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Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 10:03 PM
Tigger
Sep 21 2017, 09:54 PM
Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 09:48 PM
]Who was defending them? No one, observation is not endoresement but maybe that's too subtle for some to understand.

Leavers in general do need to do a crash course in Real Politik as does May. Negotiating in public is dumber than a dumb thing.
The game is up and May knows it, it's now time to get real and stop bullshitting the British public.
Well it's not done until it's done so she still has time to give this speech:

"Today I have sacked Boris and Fox and have instructed Davis to pursue a more understanding stance. I am also asking Donald Tusk to work with the council of ministers to propose a revision of the 2016 deal to stay in the EU that we propose to put to the British people in May 2018 as the alternative to the agreements that Davis and Barnier develop"

of course she won't but that's what Thatcher would have done. Git she may have been but at least she was a real politician and cared more about the UK than her own arse

More soothsaying, easy to do when the person mentioned is no longer here to confirm that.
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Tigger
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Apparently she will say the future of Europe depends on giving the UK a good deal! !clp!

And Boris probably feels very much at home in Florence as Pinnoccio is also from this region.
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Steve K
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Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 10:14 AM
Apparently she will say the future of Europe depends on giving the UK a good deal! !clp!

And Boris probably feels very much at home in Florence as Pinnoccio is also from this region.
Apparently the speech is at 2pm so not long to wait

I wonder who the warm up act is? That would be a gig even Michael Barrymore would turn down
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Rich
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Steve K
Sep 22 2017, 10:29 AM
Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 10:14 AM
Apparently she will say the future of Europe depends on giving the UK a good deal! !clp!

And Boris probably feels very much at home in Florence as Pinnoccio is also from this region.
Apparently the speech is at 2pm so not long to wait

I wonder who the warm up act is? That would be a gig even Michael Barrymore would turn down
According to the Today programme on R4 this morning, her speech/address begins at 14:15 hrs this afternoon GMT.
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Tigger
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Steve K
Sep 22 2017, 10:29 AM
Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 10:14 AM
Apparently she will say the future of Europe depends on giving the UK a good deal! !clp!

And Boris probably feels very much at home in Florence as Pinnoccio is also from this region.
Apparently the speech is at 2pm so not long to wait

I wonder who the warm up act is? That would be a gig even Michael Barrymore would turn down
Theresa the Appeaser will please no one, the nationalist degenerates on the Tory back benches will go into meltdown the more they think about "our" money going to the EU, and the EU itself will almost certainly be unimpressed regardless of what she offers, plus of course whatever she says this afternoon will be undone at the Tory party conference that is rapidly approaching.

It's tragic that our international reputation is being dragged through the dirt, but I must admit I'm enjoying watching the Tory party grovelling with begging bowl firmly in hand. :)
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Rich
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Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 11:59 AM
Well it's still a day away but already the rumours are starting

Quote:
 
Theresa May's speech on Brexit in Italy on Friday will represent an "open and generous offer" to the rest of the EU, a cabinet minister has told the BBC.

It is thought that might include a guarantee that no EU country would lose out from changes to the EU's current budget as a result of the UK leaving.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580

Popcorn:
Well, the EU will have to get used to it one day as we will not be contributing forever, unless of course the PM agrees a deal whereby we have free access to the EU market place as we do at present.....as for the customs union.....well a place where the sun does not shine comes to mind.
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Steve K
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So far it's not been exactly ground breaking and logically flawed

She talked of saying she wanted something and then pretended that was a guarantee - no it wasn't, it's a wish

She said we did a lot of trade with the EU and that meant there was no need for the EU to impose tariffs - no it isn't, it's a wish

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Alberich
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So we are going for a two year extension, during which time we will pay large dollops of cash into the EU coffers, in exchange for a sort of unspecified trade deal??? While not kicking the issue into the long grass, the PM has certainly sliced her tee shot off the fairway and into the rough! And after the two year period; what then? Does anyone suppose that in exchange for no more than a further two years contributions,( after which we walk away,) we will be allowed to keep a beneficial trade deal in perpetuity, and at the same time be free from the clutches of the European courts, and that we will no longer have to accept free movement? Somehow I just can't see that happening!

Our red lines are now cast in concrete, and no PM can go back on them and hope to survive. No to free movement, and no to the influences of the European courts. Their red lines are still the same. If we want access to the free market and to the customs union, we have to accept both. Can anyone realistically see a solution, acceptable to both, that does not end with a clean, hard break, and with WTO rules our only entry into EU markets?
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Rich
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Alberich
Sep 22 2017, 02:13 PM
So we are going for a two year extension, during which time we will pay large dollops of cash into the EU coffers, in exchange for a sort of unspecified trade deal??? While not kicking the issue into the long grass, the PM has certainly sliced her tee shot off the fairway and into the rough! And after the two year period; what then? Does anyone suppose that in exchange for no more than a further two years contributions,( after which we walk away,) we will be allowed to keep a beneficial trade deal in perpetuity, and at the same time be free from the clutches of the European courts, and that we will no longer have to accept free movement? Somehow I just can't see that happening!

Our red lines are now cast in concrete, and no PM can go back on them and hope to survive. No to free movement, and no to the influences of the European courts. Their red lines are still the same. If we want access to the free market and to the customs union, we have to accept both. Can anyone realistically see a solution, acceptable to both, that does not end with a clean, hard break, and with WTO rules our only entry into EU markets?
No Alberich.....those that she pointed out are aspirations and carefully guarded "suggestions" that the EU may/may not take into consideration, I think it was a good speech/address and it did tacitly stIll leave open the door for a no deal/walk away option.....I have full confidence in the PM and for my money, the EU can now be under no misunderstanding of how the UK would like to see the negotiations proceed and really, the ball is now in THEIR court.

Their response and reaction will soon tell the PM what her next move will be.
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marybrown
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Don't worry folks...teresa may is covering her own interests and her arse..
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Alberich
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The ball has always been their's to play, Rich. And their method of play has remained fairly constant. They will listen to what we want, but if we expect to be in their gang, trade wise, we have to accept THEIR rules. Can you see us getting a great deal on trade after this two year extension is up; after we have walked away, and when we will no longer be paying into their coffers?
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marybrown
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Alberich
Sep 22 2017, 02:33 PM
The ball has always been their's to play, Rich. And their method of play has remained fairly constant. They will listen to what we want, but if we expect to be in their gang, trade wise, we have to accept THEIR rules. Can you see us getting a great deal on trade after this two year extension is up; after we have walked away, and when we will no longer be paying into their coffers?
The cut off point for migrants is getting longer and longer..apparently they can still keep piling in then??
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Steve K
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Full text of speech (link and under spoiler): https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/theresa-mays-brexit-speech-full-text/

Spoiler: click to toggle


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Affa
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Who was T May addressing here?
Not the EU delegates because they by now are well aware of the sticking points in negotiations. No! She was addressing her own party first, the UK media and public second. Then anyone else bothered to listen.
There will be a pause, more negotiations, and some sort of reaction to what she said and what the negotiators report ........ and then the real horse trading takes place. Not with the EU but in Parliament, the back benchers, the Tory media - trying to find a way out of the EU that voters will accept - Hard Brexit will be back on the table, and it will be the CBI, the 'City', playing hardball with the government.
They just might decide to back Vince Cable.
Edited by Affa, Sep 22 2017, 07:07 PM.
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Tigger
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Affa
Sep 22 2017, 07:06 PM

Not the EU delegates because they by now are well aware of the sticking points in negotiations. No! She was addressing her own party first, the UK media and public second. Then anyone else bothered to listen.

Yup, spot on, it's for domestic consumption and designed to elicit some kind words from the EU.

What has become very apparent is that the EU can tie the Tories and the twattish right wing British press in knots with just the hint of a put down, the bottom line is we are out the door in March 2019 deal or no deal, and I'm not entirely convinced the EU will let us hang around for another two years after that in some vague transition era especially as the four freedoms will have to be respected, can you imagine how the Brexit Taliban will react to this?

We've done them no favours for years I'm not expecting any in return, plus of course Brexit voting pensioners will have to fend for themselves in those care homes after all the bloody foreigners FO! :)
Edited by Tigger, Sep 22 2017, 07:52 PM.
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 09:48 PM
Who was defending them? No one, observation is not endoresement but maybe that's too subtle for some to understand.

Leavers in general do need to do a crash course in Real Politik as does May. Negotiating in public is dumber than a dumb thing.

1) You'll note I asked a question, I did NOT make a statement. Maybe the ? is too subtle for some to understand.

2) No just Leavers, Remainers were, in the main, blind to the reasons Out won; and those reasons are very, very Real Politik.

3) Yes it is, funny you don't lambaste the EU for doing so, but only the UK. A hint of bias perhaps? (Please do note the question mark).


All The Best
Edited by Steve K, Sep 22 2017, 09:40 PM.
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Pro Veritas
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Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 07:50 PM
We've done them no favours for years
Well, except funding their opulent largesse to the tune of £350m gross per week.

Yeah, no favours at all, right? :facepalm:


All The Best
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Tigger
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 08:28 PM
Well, except funding their opulent largesse to the tune of £350m gross per week.

Yeah, no favours at all, right? :facepalm:


All The Best
I was hoping you were going to mention all the inward investment from Europe that replaced all the industries we fucked up through incompetence, plus of course all the dodgy services we currently sell and all those wonderful trade deals we will shortly be running away from!

But I guess you forgot all of that didn't you? !wav!
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Pro Veritas
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Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 08:35 PM
Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 08:28 PM
Well, except funding their opulent largesse to the tune of £350m gross per week.

Yeah, no favours at all, right? :facepalm:


All The Best
I was hoping you were going to mention all the inward investment from Europe that replaced all the industries we fucked up through incompetence, plus of course all the dodgy services we currently sell and all those wonderful trade deals we will shortly be running away from!

But I guess you forgot all of that didn't you? !wav!
If you can demonstrate that equals a net gain to us of more than £350m/week then you have a point, otherwise you don't.

But even the EU (the Institution) recognises that we were until recently one of a quite tiny group of net contributors to the EU Budget, so it's a moot point.

All The Best
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Rich
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 07:50 PM
We've done them no favours for years
Well, except funding their opulent largesse to the tune of £350m gross per week.

Yeah, no favours at all, right? :facepalm:


All The Best
We've done them no favours?

Google link

What favours have they done for us?


I am willing to be educated here.

Liberation is the order of the day, only this time we have Liberated ourselves.
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Tigger
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 08:50 PM
If you can demonstrate that equals a net gain to us of more than £350m/week then you have a point, otherwise you don't.

But even the EU (the Institution) recognises that we were until recently one of a quite tiny group of net contributors to the EU Budget, so it's a moot point.

All The Best
Well of course there are all those jobs reliant on EU based firms, I've no idea what the total take home pay is each week but I suspect it'll be more than "£350m" (sic).

And did you see how May caved in to the EU demands? Funny isn't it? Especially after all the quips about whistling, cakes and aces! Look on it as a foretaste of what is to come in the years ahead, nations you'd struggle to find on a map will be making all sorts of demands as we'll be desperate for deals.

The future is bright! :thumbsup:

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Tigger
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Rich
Sep 22 2017, 08:54 PM
Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 07:50 PM
We've done them no favours for years
Well, except funding their opulent largesse to the tune of £350m gross per week.

Yeah, no favours at all, right? :facepalm:


All The Best
We've done them no favours?

Google link

What favours have they done for us?


I am willing to be educated here.

Liberation is the order of the day, only this time we have Liberated ourselves.
Oh look the war again! :facepalm:

Do you realise how dumb that is? Here's you the self appointed spokesman for a generation you are not part of, on account of you not even being born then, asking, nay demanding, respect from hundreds of millions of people who had no part in it because just like you they were also not alive then.

Give it a rest it's fucking pathetic.
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 07:50 PM
We've done them no favours for years
Well, except funding their opulent largesse to the tune of £350m gross per week. . .
!=== ^

Gross ~£260M, net ~£160M

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Go on see if you can find a year when we funded them £350M a week


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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 07:59 PM
Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 09:48 PM
Who was defending them? No one, observation is not endoresement but maybe that's too subtle for some to understand.

Leavers in general do need to do a crash course in Real Politik as does May. Negotiating in public is dumber than a dumb thing.

1) You'll note I asked a question, I did NOT make a statement. Maybe the ? is too subtle for some to understand.

2) No just Leavers, Remainers were, in the main, blind to the reasons Out won; and those reasons are very, very Real Politik.

3) Yes it is, funny you don't lambaste the EU for doing so, but only the UK. A hint of bias perhaps? (Please do note the question mark).


All The Best
:facepalm: Well while you were so busy editing my words (now corrected back) to insert numerics I never posted perhaps you might have better used your time looking up 'exclamatory question' which as you full well know is what you used when you posted this:
Pro Veritas
Sep 21 2017, 09:23 PM
Tigger
Sep 21 2017, 09:18 PM
I suspect they'll fuck us around and say not good enough no matter what is offered,
And you still defend them and lambaste us?! :facepalm:



All The Best


If you need that explaining further just think how you would react were someone to post "Aren't you a fucking prat?" and said the question mark made it OK



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Tigger
Sep 22 2017, 07:50 PM
Affa
Sep 22 2017, 07:06 PM

Not the EU delegates because they by now are well aware of the sticking points in negotiations. No! She was addressing her own party first, the UK media and public second. Then anyone else bothered to listen.

Yup, spot on, it's for domestic consumption and designed to elicit some kind words from the EU.

What has become very apparent is that the EU can tie the Tories and the twattish right wing British press in knots with just the hint of a put down, the bottom line is we are out the door in March 2019 deal or no deal, and I'm not entirely convinced the EU will let us hang around for another two years after that in some vague transition era especially as the four freedoms will have to be respected, can you imagine how the Brexit Taliban will react to this?

We've done them no favours for years I'm not expecting any in return, plus of course Brexit voting pensioners will have to fend for themselves in those care homes after all the bloody foreigners FO! :)


Give it a rest will you ffs. Everything is pointing to a Brexit in name only. You may be deprived of your wet dream but it looks like pragmatism will prevail. Sorry .........
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 22 2017, 10:05 PM
Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 07:59 PM
Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 09:48 PM
Who was defending them? No one, observation is not endoresement but maybe that's too subtle for some to understand.

Leavers in general do need to do a crash course in Real Politik as does May. Negotiating in public is dumber than a dumb thing.

1) You'll note I asked a question, I did NOT make a statement. Maybe the ? is too subtle for some to understand.

2) No just Leavers, Remainers were, in the main, blind to the reasons Out won; and those reasons are very, very Real Politik.

3) Yes it is, funny you don't lambaste the EU for doing so, but only the UK. A hint of bias perhaps? (Please do note the question mark).


All The Best
:facepalm: Well while you were so busy editing my words (now corrected back) to insert numerics I never posted perhaps you might have better used your time looking up 'exclamatory question' which as you full well know is what you used when you posted this:
Pro Veritas
Sep 21 2017, 09:23 PM
Tigger
Sep 21 2017, 09:18 PM
I suspect they'll fuck us around and say not good enough no matter what is offered,
And you still defend them and lambaste us?! :facepalm:



All The Best


If you need that explaining further just think how you would react were someone to post "Aren't you a fucking prat?" and said the question mark made it OK



Well I guess bitching and moaning about me inserting numerics so my questions to specific points are clearly identified amounts to answering those questions.

Oh, wait, no it doesn't.

Seems like you'll take any excuse to avoid answering questions you don't like.

And if someone posed that question of me I'd do what 99% of people would do - laugh it off.

All The Best
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scorpio
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Steve K
Sep 22 2017, 02:46 PM
Full text of speech (link and under spoiler): https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/theresa-mays-brexit-speech-full-text/

Spoiler: click to toggle


For those interested, the following is a link to the European Commission (from Michel Barnier) response to Mrs May's speech...

Link... http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-3427_en.htm
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papasmurf
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Affa
Sep 22 2017, 07:06 PM
Who was T May addressing here?
It appeared to be just the British media.

Although after the speech Moody's downgraded the UKs credit rating:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41369239


6 hours ago From the section Business

The UK's credit rating has been cut over concerns about the UK's public finances and fears Brexit could damage the country's economic growth.

Moody's, one of the major ratings agencies, downgraded the UK to an Aa2 rating from Aa1.
Edited by papasmurf, Sep 23 2017, 06:56 AM.
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 23 2017, 12:30 AM
Steve K
Sep 22 2017, 10:05 PM
Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2017, 07:59 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
:facepalm: Well while you were so busy editing my words (now corrected back) to insert numerics I never posted perhaps you might have better used your time looking up 'exclamatory question' which as you full well know is what you used when you posted this:
Pro Veritas
Sep 21 2017, 09:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


If you need that explaining further just think how you would react were someone to post "Aren't you a fucking prat?" and said the question mark made it OK



Well I guess bitching and moaning about me inserting numerics so my questions to specific points are clearly identified amounts to answering those questions.

Oh, wait, no it doesn't.

Seems like you'll take any excuse to avoid answering questions you don't like.

And if someone posed that question of me I'd do what 99% of people would do - laugh it off.

All The Best
So you think it's funny to misformat another's post to make them look like they're were being over emphatic?

Do read the rules, you are supposed to uphold them not flout them daily
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