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Theresa May's speech in Florence; merged with two year deal
Topic Started: Sep 21 2017, 11:59 AM (729 Views)
Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Well it's still a day away but already the rumours are starting

Quote:
 
Theresa May's speech on Brexit in Italy on Friday will represent an "open and generous offer" to the rest of the EU, a cabinet minister has told the BBC.

It is thought that might include a guarantee that no EU country would lose out from changes to the EU's current budget as a result of the UK leaving.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580

Popcorn:
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Steve K
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scorpio
Sep 23 2017, 01:25 AM
Steve K
Sep 22 2017, 02:46 PM
Full text of speech (link and under spoiler): https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/theresa-mays-brexit-speech-full-text/

Spoiler: click to toggle


For those interested, the following is a link to the European Commission (from Michel Barnier) response to Mrs May's speech...

Link... http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-3427_en.htm
Ta

Probably as positive as he could comment this side of seeing who is the German PM and British PM after the upcoming election and party conference

The almost immediate downrating by Moody's a little concerning.
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 09:16 AM


The almost immediate downrating by Moody's a little concerning.
It concerns me as well. I need to get some Euros in the next week or so.
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Sep 23 2017, 09:19 AM
Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 09:16 AM


The almost immediate downrating by Moody's a little concerning.
It concerns me as well. I need to get some Euros in the next week or so.
Well the rate didn't move much and remains at a 10% devaluation post Brexit (which I've always said is about its right place)

The only explanation I have for the questionable Moody's timing is they were holding it just in case she made some more positive statements - which frankly she was never going to do.
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 09:25 AM
Well the rate didn't move much and remains at a 10% devaluation post Brexit (which I've always said is about its right place)

The only explanation I have for the questionable Moody's timing was they were holding it just in case she made some more positive statements - which frankly she was never going to do.
Just wait until the markets open on Monday.
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Sep 23 2017, 09:28 AM
Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 09:25 AM
Well the rate didn't move much and remains at a 10% devaluation post Brexit (which I've always said is about its right place)

The only explanation I have for the questionable Moody's timing was they were holding it just in case she made some more positive statements - which frankly she was never going to do.
Just wait until the markets open on Monday.
Currency trading is 24/365

http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=GBP&To=EUR#
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Affa
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Why can't the UK just walk away from the EU ....... as the referendum voters in general determined was wanted?
Even now there is a strong indication from those wanting Out to reject any compromise deal that retains either or EU supremacy in Law, FoM.
Both are constitutional requirements for access to the Single Market. May wants access but not the conditional requirements ....... she's stalling.
Edited by Affa, Sep 23 2017, 10:25 AM.
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Affa
Sep 23 2017, 10:25 AM
Why can't the UK just walk away from the EU ....... as the referendum voters in general determined was wanted?
Even now there is a strong indication from those wanting Out to reject any compromise deal that retains either or EU supremacy in Law, FoM.
Both are constitutional requirements for access to the Single Market. May wants access but not the conditional requirements ....... she's stalling.


May wants access to the single market and will accept any conditions (within reason ) that allows it.
The backlash against us accepting the demands of the EU to facilitate the continuation of the single market would be negligible compared with a hard Brexit.
IMO the ‘negotiations ‘ are a face saving exercise for the politicians and smoke and mirrors for the public.
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Steve K
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gansao
Sep 23 2017, 10:33 AM
Affa
Sep 23 2017, 10:25 AM
Why can't the UK just walk away from the EU ....... as the referendum voters in general determined was wanted?
Even now there is a strong indication from those wanting Out to reject any compromise deal that retains either or EU supremacy in Law, FoM.
Both are constitutional requirements for access to the Single Market. May wants access but not the conditional requirements ....... she's stalling.


May wants access to the single market and will accept any conditions (within reason ) that allows it.
The backlash against us accepting the demands of the EU to facilitate the continuation of the single market would be negligible compared with a hard Brexit.
IMO the ‘negotiations ‘ are a face saving exercise for the politicians and smoke and mirrors for the public.
She wants access to the single market because (a) she knows she's toast without it, (b) she knows the Tories are toast without it and maybe (c) she knows without it a fair few people are going to be worse off.

The Tories finally worked out that 'no deal' is worse than what might seem to be a less than cake and eat it deal.

How long before they work out that the best deal they can get might be a lot worse than the deal Cameron got?
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Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 01:02 PM
gansao
Sep 23 2017, 10:33 AM
Affa
Sep 23 2017, 10:25 AM
Why can't the UK just walk away from the EU ....... as the referendum voters in general determined was wanted?
Even now there is a strong indication from those wanting Out to reject any compromise deal that retains either or EU supremacy in Law, FoM.
Both are constitutional requirements for access to the Single Market. May wants access but not the conditional requirements ....... she's stalling.


May wants access to the single market and will accept any conditions (within reason ) that allows it.
The backlash against us accepting the demands of the EU to facilitate the continuation of the single market would be negligible compared with a hard Brexit.
IMO the ‘negotiations ‘ are a face saving exercise for the politicians and smoke and mirrors for the public.
She wants access to the single market because (a) she knows she's toast without it, (b) she knows the Tories are toast without it and maybe (c) she knows without it a fair few people are going to be worse off.

The Tories finally worked out that 'no deal' is worse than what might seem to be a less than cake and eat it deal.

How long before they work out that the best deal they can get might be a lot worse than the deal Cameron got?


Which is pretty much what I said with knobs on.
I personally think that a hard Brexit would result in revolts both on the street and in the establishments. I think that we will get a virtual Brexit where the UK will be suspended indefinitely in a relationship not out and not in the EU.
I believe that if there was a very clear majority that wanted to break from the EU then the UK could of made a success of it but clearly there is no appetite within the UK to suffer the short/medium term pain.
The EU and the UK negotiators know this and we are just dancing around a predetermined agreement . The rest is just softening up the public.
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papasmurf
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gansao
Sep 23 2017, 01:51 PM

The EU and the UK negotiators know this and we are just dancing around a predetermined agreement . The rest is just softening up the public.
UK negotiators is in this instance an oxymoron.
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papasmurf
Sep 23 2017, 02:02 PM
gansao
Sep 23 2017, 01:51 PM

The EU and the UK negotiators know this and we are just dancing around a predetermined agreement . The rest is just softening up the public.
UK negotiators is in this instance an oxymoron.


If you say so
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=oxymoron&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 09:12 AM
So you think it's funny to misformat another's post to make them look like they're were being over emphatic?

Do read the rules, you are supposed to uphold them not flout them daily
Except I didn't do that, did I.

I changed nothing about the content, context, sytax of grammar of your post; it was materially identical to how you wrote it.

I put a numeral before each sentence then mirrored those numerals to the appropriate parts of my responses, so as to ensure clarity because far to often people here seem to deliberately miss the point just for the sake of an argument.

Speaking of which.......

PS: If you think I flout the rules daily please report me to a Moderator.

PPS: What happened to us not Moderating a point of contention we are involved in?

All The Best
Edited by Pro Veritas, Sep 23 2017, 05:37 PM.
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Rich
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Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 01:02 PM
gansao
Sep 23 2017, 10:33 AM
Affa
Sep 23 2017, 10:25 AM
Why can't the UK just walk away from the EU ....... as the referendum voters in general determined was wanted?
Even now there is a strong indication from those wanting Out to reject any compromise deal that retains either or EU supremacy in Law, FoM.
Both are constitutional requirements for access to the Single Market. May wants access but not the conditional requirements ....... she's stalling.


May wants access to the single market and will accept any conditions (within reason ) that allows it.
The backlash against us accepting the demands of the EU to facilitate the continuation of the single market would be negligible compared with a hard Brexit.
IMO the ‘negotiations ‘ are a face saving exercise for the politicians and smoke and mirrors for the public.
She wants access to the single market because (a) she knows she's toast without it, (b) she knows the Tories are toast without it and maybe (c) she knows without it a fair few people are going to be worse off.

The Tories finally worked out that 'no deal' is worse than what might seem to be a less than cake and eat it deal.

How long before they work out that the best deal they can get might be a lot worse than the deal Cameron got?
Yes......but, let's face it, Cameron did not possess the same sort of backbone as say....Maggie, who could be very "persuasive" when the need arose and she could do that diplomatically but forcibly.

Cameron virtually signalled what cards he was holding before he went to the table and started gambling against a stacked house.

I think we all knew before he went that he would be laughed out of the Casino, but, to be fair, he did give the other 27 member states good warning that whatever scrap they did concede would be presented to the UK voting electorate in the form of an in/out referendum.....we are where we are.
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Tigger
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gansao
Sep 22 2017, 10:43 PM


Give it a rest will you ffs. Everything is pointing to a Brexit in name only. You may be deprived of your wet dream but it looks like pragmatism will prevail. Sorry .........
Another one who doesn't get it yet, we are gone, out the back door, the EU wants us out and it won't be letting us remain in the single market or any of the financial structures that govern 27 other nations, there will be no "leaving" but paying to "remain". That is another illusion to join the long list of other illusions that have now been consigned to the bin in the cold light of reality. We are no longer needed or wanted, we were too disruptive and thought ourselves above Europe, May put it differently by saying we never really felt part of it.

How many times do you have to be told no cherry picking and that the four freedoms are sacrosanct?

It's out in 18 months regardless, which is why the fuckwits in the Tory party need to stop the flag waving bollocks and start talking to both the EU and the British public in a serious manner.
Edited by Tigger, Sep 23 2017, 09:30 PM.
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Tigger
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Rich
Sep 23 2017, 06:10 PM
Steve K
Sep 23 2017, 01:02 PM
gansao
Sep 23 2017, 10:33 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep she's stalling
She wants access to the single market because (a) she knows she's toast without it, (b) she knows the Tories are toast without it and maybe (c) she knows without it a fair few people are going to be worse off.

The Tories finally worked out that 'no deal' is worse than what might seem to be a less than cake and eat it deal.

How long before they work out that the best deal they can get might be a lot worse than the deal Cameron got?
Yes......but, let's face it, Cameron did not possess the same sort of backbone as say....Maggie, who could be very "persuasive" when the need arose and she could do that diplomatically but forcibly.

Cameron virtually signalled what cards he was holding before he went to the table and started gambling against a stacked house.

I think we all knew before he went that he would be laughed out of the Casino, but, to be fair, he did give the other 27 member states good warning that whatever scrap they did concede would be presented to the UK voting electorate in the form of an in/out referendum.....we are where we are.
We've eroded our leverage for thirty years to the point where it now hardly exists, all we have is implied the threat not to pay the leaving bill, which is insignificant in budgetary terms but significant in terms of our reputation.

Even friends eventually got pissed off with the haughty superiority and pig ignorance displayed by the Tories and constant digs the UK directed towards Europe.
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Rich
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Steve K
Sep 21 2017, 11:59 AM
Well it's still a day away but already the rumours are starting

Quote:
 
Theresa May's speech on Brexit in Italy on Friday will represent an "open and generous offer" to the rest of the EU, a cabinet minister has told the BBC.

It is thought that might include a guarantee that no EU country would lose out from changes to the EU's current budget as a result of the UK leaving.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580

Popcorn:
"Brussels officials are also gripped by the political situation in the UK, with one senior figure suggesting the prime minister is too weak to offer anything big and might not even be in her job in two weeks' time."

Methinks that Brussels presumeth too much.
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Tigger
Sep 23 2017, 09:17 PM
gansao
Sep 22 2017, 10:43 PM


Give it a rest will you ffs. Everything is pointing to a Brexit in name only. You may be deprived of your wet dream but it looks like pragmatism will prevail. Sorry .........
Another one who doesn't get it yet, we are gone, out the back door, the EU wants us out and it won't be letting us remain in the single market or any of the financial structures that govern 27 other nations, there will be no "leaving" but paying to "remain". That is another illusion to join the long list of other illusions that have now been consigned to the bin in the cold light of reality. We are no longer needed or wanted, we were too disruptive and thought ourselves above Europe, May put it differently by saying we never really felt part of it.

How many times do you have to be told no cherry picking and that the four freedoms are sacrosanct?

It's out in 18 months regardless, which is why the fuckwits in the Tory party need to stop the flag waving bollocks and start talking to both the EU and the British public in a serious manner.


Another one who doesn’t get it ? That’s a laugh coming from you.
The fact is that the UK will remain inside the EU . There will be a virtual Brexit with the UK staying in the single market and yes ‘paying for it’ as all EU members’ pay for it.’
The ‘illusions ‘are nothing but rhetoric to pretend that the government made a good stab at leaving but fir the good of us all have capitulated.
Now how about putting sock in it and moaning about something else? Your spiteful little pipe dream will not come true although no doubt you still will be waffling in about it for years to come.

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Steve K
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gansao
Sep 24 2017, 10:33 AM
. .Now how about putting sock in it . . .

How about you put a sock in it while read your last post in full and see how much of it (and your last days's posts) fits the definition of trolling in our rules?
Quote:
 
7. Trolling

Will be seen as a breach of rule 2. Trolling includes content (words or images) intended to provoke emotional responses from others rather than to make debating points.

So I'm going to politely ask that you please tone it down
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Steve K
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gansao
Sep 24 2017, 10:33 AM
. . . The fact is that the UK will remain inside the EU . There will be a virtual Brexit with the UK staying in the single market and yes ‘paying for it’ as all EU members’ pay for it.’ . . .
It's not a fact and I still believe it's 80% likely that we'll be out by March 2019 and probably with a bad deal

For a start all 27 nations would have to agree that ~2 year extension May so patronisingly asked for.

And then there's the brinkmanship that goes with a looming deadline. The "you can have a trade deal as long as the UK backs it in a referendum" possible line from the EU carries more weight now than in 3 years time when much of our businesses will have wound down employment in anticipation of Brexit

Then there's the fact that a 2 year extension means the Tories could go to an election before all the impacts of fully leaving had worked through to households

Whatever you think of those points it certainly is not a fact that we will remain.
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Steve K
Sep 24 2017, 10:50 AM
gansao
Sep 24 2017, 10:33 AM
. .Now how about putting sock in it . . .

How about you put a sock in it while read your last post in full and see how much of it (and your last days's posts) fits the definition of trolling in out rules?
Quote:
 
7. Trolling

Will be seen as a breach of rule 2. Trolling includes content (words or images) intended to provoke emotional responses from others rather than to make debating points.

So I'm going to politely ask that you please tone it down


How about you reading the post I replied to which started..Another one who doesn’t get it yet..an obvious ad hom which could be considered trolling.
I’m going to ask you politely to at least try not to be so bias .
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Steve K
Sep 24 2017, 10:57 AM
gansao
Sep 24 2017, 10:33 AM
. . . The fact is that the UK will remain inside the EU . There will be a virtual Brexit with the UK staying in the single market and yes ‘paying for it’ as all EU members’ pay for it.’ . . .
It's not a fact and I still believe it's 80% likely that we'll be out by March 2019 and probably with a bad deal

For a start all 27 nations would have to agree that ~2 year extension May so patronisingly asked for.

And then there's the brinkmanship that goes with a looming deadline. The "you can have a trade deal as long as the UK backs it in a referendum" possible line from the EU carries more weight now than in 3 years time when much of our businesses will have wound down employment in anticipation of Brexit

Then there's the fact that a 2 year extension means the Tories could go to an election before all the impacts of fully leaving had worked through to households

Whatever you think of those points it certainly is not a fact that we will remain.


Neither is this fact


Another one who doesn't get it yet, we are gone, out the back door, the EU wants us out and it won't be letting us remain in the single market or any of the financial structures that govern 27 other nations, there will be no "leaving" but paying to "remain". That is another illusion to join the long list of other illusions that have now been consigned to the bin in the cold light of reality. We are no longer needed or wanted, we were too disruptive and thought ourselves above Europe, May put it differently by saying we never really felt part of it.


But you seemed to have missed Tigers Non facts and picked on mine..I wonder why?
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Steve K
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gansao
Sep 24 2017, 11:27 AM
Steve K
Sep 24 2017, 10:50 AM
gansao
Sep 24 2017, 10:33 AM
. .Now how about putting sock in it . . .

How about you put a sock in it while read your last post in full and see how much of it (and your last days's posts) fits the definition of trolling in out rules?
Quote:
 
7. Trolling

Will be seen as a breach of rule 2. Trolling includes content (words or images) intended to provoke emotional responses from others rather than to make debating points.

So I'm going to politely ask that you please tone it down


How about you reading the post I replied to which started..Another one who doesn’t get it yet..an obvious ad hom which could be considered trolling.
I’m going to ask you politely to at least try not to be so bias .
I did read it and if you want to discuss this further PM me and I will explain why your post was the one called out for a polite request

But seeing as how a polite request was met with an offensive ad hom back:

!mod-s! the ad homs and trolling stop now
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Steve K
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!mod-s! Thread closed for a short time

While I move certain mod notice defying posts to avoid the perpetrator getting a sanction

Spose I'll get called biased for protecting him, such is life
Reopened
Edited by Steve K, Sep 24 2017, 12:51 PM.
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Steve K
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well finally I get a chance to reply to this:
Tigger
Sep 23 2017, 09:17 PM
gansao
Sep 22 2017, 10:43 PM


Give it a rest will you ffs. Everything is pointing to a Brexit in name only. You may be deprived of your wet dream but it looks like pragmatism will prevail. Sorry .........
Another one who doesn't get it yet, we are gone, out the back door, the EU wants us out and it won't be letting us remain in the single market or any of the financial structures that govern 27 other nations . .

As posted above I'll stick with 80% chance we are out but I 100% disagree with your rationale that the supposed certainty is driven from across the water

Even at this stage if the UK was to say 'feignies' the EU would let us stay. Lots of bad feeling but the big players (and contributors) know the EU has much more import with the UK in it, moreover they would welcome our drive to end or at least restrict the idiocy of free movement from non convergent nations.

The reasons we'll almost certainly leave are all home driven

- The Tories have made too many "Brexit means Brexit" and "We're going to make Brexit a success" statements to look anything like charlatans unless forced to change

- Corbyn and his side of Labour know the EU would restrict their old school Clause 4 ambitions

But still a 20% chance and I'll still hope. But then I buy lottery tickets too

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Tigger
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gansao
Sep 24 2017, 10:33 AM

Another one who doesn’t get it ? That’s a laugh coming from you.
The fact is that the UK will remain inside the EU . There will be a virtual Brexit with the UK staying in the single market and yes ‘paying for it’ as all EU members’ pay for it.’
Worried about you job now are you? Don't take it out on me take it out on the Brexit Taliban and the millions thick biddies. ;-)

Here's the thing, nobody in Europe really understands what is meant by a so called soft Brexit, it only has a life here in the UK, abroad it's very, very simple to understand, YOU CANNOT HAVE THE ADVANTAGES OF BEING IN THE SINGLE MARKET IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE EU!

Have you grasped that fact yet of would you like some PH1 style bigger font?
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Tigger
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Steve K
Sep 24 2017, 02:10 PM


Even at this stage if the UK was to say 'feignies' the EU would let us stay. Lots of bad feeling but the big players (and contributors) know the EU has much more import with the UK in it, moreover they would welcome our drive to end or at least restrict the idiocy of free movement from non convergent nations.





But still a 20% chance and I'll still hope. But then I buy lottery tickets too

I disagree, in a fortnight in Germany not one person I spoke to (not many admittedly!) said they'd want the UK to stay, my son tells me attitudes have hardened and most would like to see us out as quickly as possible, they just see the UK as disruptive and a poor team player who does not believe in the EU and instead prefers nostalgia to practicality.

Others in Europe will fill the influence gap we'll now vacate on the World stage, the French seem especially keen to gain an advantage here.
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Pro Veritas
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Tigger
Sep 24 2017, 05:41 PM
Others in Europe will fill the influence gap we'll now vacate on the World stage, the French seem especially keen to gain an advantage here.
But none of the will fill the fiscal gap we vacate.

France is NOT going to up it's net contribution to the EU.

All The Best
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Rich
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Pro Veritas
Sep 24 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 24 2017, 05:41 PM
Others in Europe will fill the influence gap we'll now vacate on the World stage, the French seem especially keen to gain an advantage here.
But none of the will fill the fiscal gap we vacate.

France is NOT going to up it's net contribution to the EU.

All The Best
Macron is definitely not the flavour of the month in France, the new Labour laws etc that he has just edicted will not please the French militant sector.....when will he just like all the other French premiere's cave in?

They have before and no doubt will do so in future brought/bring France to a standstill until they get their own way. :rubchin:
Edited by Rich, Sep 24 2017, 08:34 PM.
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Tigger
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Pro Veritas
Sep 24 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 24 2017, 05:41 PM
Others in Europe will fill the influence gap we'll now vacate on the World stage, the French seem especially keen to gain an advantage here.
But none of the will fill the fiscal gap we vacate.

France is NOT going to up it's net contribution to the EU.

All The Best
It's no big deal in the grand scheme of things, certainly not a ball breaker our pathetic press often claim it is, I suspect they'll more than recoup the "losses" by repatriating UK based jobs and of course attracting the inward investment that used to go to a country that decided to cut itself off from it's largest single marketplace..........
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Tigger
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Rich
Sep 24 2017, 08:33 PM
Pro Veritas
Sep 24 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 24 2017, 05:41 PM
Others in Europe will fill the influence gap we'll now vacate on the World stage, the French seem especially keen to gain an advantage here.
But none of the will fill the fiscal gap we vacate.

France is NOT going to up it's net contribution to the EU.

All The Best
Macron is definitely not the flavour of the month in France, the new Labour laws etc that he has just edicted will not please the French militant sector.....when will he just like all the other French premiere's cave in?

They have before and no doubt will do so in future brought/bring France to a standstill until they get their own way. :rubchin:
They'll be burning sheep next and inconveniencing duty free smugglers in 05 reged Transits, right?

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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 24 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 24 2017, 05:41 PM
Others in Europe will fill the influence gap we'll now vacate on the World stage, the French seem especially keen to gain an advantage here.
But none of the will fill the fiscal gap we vacate.

France is NOT going to up it's net contribution to the EU.

All The Best
Certainly France isn't going to rush to fill that €10 to 15B gap

But when push comes to shove they would but at a price. And the irony is that that price might well be further limitations on free movement. The French really hate that
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Rich
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Steve K
Sep 24 2017, 08:42 PM
Pro Veritas
Sep 24 2017, 08:28 PM
Tigger
Sep 24 2017, 05:41 PM
Others in Europe will fill the influence gap we'll now vacate on the World stage, the French seem especially keen to gain an advantage here.
But none of the will fill the fiscal gap we vacate.

France is NOT going to up it's net contribution to the EU.

All The Best
Certainly France isn't going to rush to fill that €10 to 15B gap

But when push comes to shove they would but at a price. And the irony is that that price might well be further limitations on free movement. The French really hate that
It is my belief that once the UK actually exits the EU club and things have calmed down, then the EU will re align it's priorities and become more flexible with it's member states and begin to re examine it's income and expenditure sheet.

Unless of course it is hell bent on self destruction, I would not be at all surprised if in 50 years time, all that will be left of the EU will be an economic community (EC) and a return to EFTA.

wtf do I know?
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