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| Catalonia | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 25 2017, 02:44 PM (1,774 Views) | |
| morayloon | Sep 25 2017, 02:44 PM Post #1 |
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I can't believe that I have to come back on this forum to open a thread on the Spanish repression of the Catalan people. Why haven't any of you brought up this important matter? The right to self determination of the Catalans is being trampled on by the Spanish authorities and not one of you care? Sign this petition to show your concern at the suspension of democracy in Catalonia Petition Link |
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| Mr Pat | Oct 2 2017, 12:27 AM Post #41 |
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Article 7 of the European Union Treaty "Suspension of any Member State that uses military force on its own population." Where is the EU's voice today? |
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| Rich | Oct 2 2017, 12:45 AM Post #42 |
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Probably too busy chatting away in a free bar in Luxembourg about David Davis and Theresa May to give much thought to Spain and Catalonia......woe betide any ruling body that does not abide by popular opinion. Ps. Can the Spanish police be termed as "military"? Edited by Rich, Oct 2 2017, 12:46 AM.
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| Curious Cdn | Oct 2 2017, 03:21 AM Post #43 |
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Scotland and Wales come to MY mind. I guess that they don't fit in that dynamic. |
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| Mr Pat | Oct 2 2017, 04:43 AM Post #44 |
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I thought the Quebec Sovereignty Movement would have come to YOUR mind first. Edited by Mr Pat, Oct 2 2017, 04:46 AM.
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| Steve K | Oct 2 2017, 09:45 AM Post #45 |
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Once and future cynic
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Dunno, perhaps Mr Pat could post a link to back his assertion. Seeing as how Article 7 does not say what Mr Pat says it says Article 7 full text And as you point out, the Police are not the military. |
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| Curious Cdn | Oct 2 2017, 09:53 AM Post #46 |
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It did. Quebec held two referenda. Quebec is still a part of Canada and there appears to be little interest in holding further independance referenda. They have the right to do so, if they choose to, though. |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 2 2017, 06:38 PM Post #47 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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That's the consolidated version, a bit like the abrogated verses if the Koran. Fuck knows what it really said when they signed it... |
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| Tigger | Oct 2 2017, 06:46 PM Post #48 |
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Did you just make that up? It would also appear that the turnout was only 42% as most didn't seem that interested, I wonder if the organisers of this "referendum" had a UKIP style mentality? Having just checked there is no mention of shutting down illegal referendums or restoring order in your own jurisdiction as a result of that, but then so many people have had their minds warped by alleged oppression from outsiders........ Edited by Tigger, Oct 2 2017, 06:55 PM.
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| Steve K | Oct 2 2017, 10:42 PM Post #49 |
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Once and future cynic
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It's the reference version Mr Pat was repeating a piece of bollocks some Spaniard tweeted and then deleted when she realised it was bollocks. He should have checked a story he saw as being wonderful but wasn't true |
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| Mr Pat | Oct 3 2017, 06:12 AM Post #50 |
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(Thought Police) I didn't see that as being wonderful; so you really need to retract that otherwise I'll call you out for being deceitful. Awaits the warning. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 3 2017, 11:32 AM Post #51 |
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Note the rather nasty racism . |
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| morayloon | Oct 3 2017, 11:44 AM Post #52 |
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Pointing out reality is 'racist? Grow up!!! |
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| Steve K | Oct 4 2017, 12:05 AM Post #53 |
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Once and future cynic
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Very unwise intervention by that arse Juncker on the matter http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-17-3626_en.htm
So Mr Juncker if you truly believed that "this is an internal matter for Spain" why did you issue this interventionist statement then? Had too much merry juice again? |
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| Tytoalba | Oct 4 2017, 10:26 AM Post #54 |
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With too many not wanting to face the fact that it was a democratic decision by the People of Catalonia Of course for some it is difficult to deal with, for to accept the democratic vote of the people of Catalonia is to have to accept the decision of the people of Gibraltar to remain British, or to have to accept the democratic vote of the people of the UK to leave the EU. For some on this board it is a catch 22 situation, for, for them to accept the democratic will of a people in a referendum means they have to accept the will of the people in the referendum to leave the EU. Now I expect there will be attempts to justify themselves on this mixed message on democracy, but I don't think your going to succeed. We have the same attempts to claim our government hasn't the mandate to govern but our democratic system says they do, in spite of the partisan left wing attempts to claim other wise. I was watching part of the debate on Catalonia in the EU Parliament this morning, and they were every bit as divided as we are in their divisions over it. This saga is not over for the people of Catalonia seem to be preparing a unilateral declaration of independence for themselves or for the EU as a whole. We have done the same in the UK with a declaration of independence from the EU. |
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| Barry | Oct 5 2017, 09:40 AM Post #55 |
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One thing I like about this forum is that it repeats the OP at the top of every page so that it doesn't go off topic. |
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| Steve K | Oct 5 2017, 10:24 AM Post #56 |
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Once and future cynic
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| Steve K | Oct 5 2017, 10:40 AM Post #57 |
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Once and future cynic
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Meanwhile back at the topic. Spain and the Catalan regional governments seemed determined to make this a long term nightmare with one side threatening imminent secession and the other refusing to have any mediation talks http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41509050 Both should look hard at the history of Ireland. Nobody needs the deaths such leads to |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 5 2017, 11:08 PM Post #58 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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didn't they find out all about that circa 1936 ? I mean, this is little more than a re-run of the spanish civil war ... isn't it. |
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| Steve K | Oct 6 2017, 09:04 AM Post #59 |
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Once and future cynic
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That's the danger But reality may be dawning for the separatists as the major banks located there are making preparations to leave Catalonia That's the thing with independence movements. They appeal to the heart not the head suckering in those who naively believe that jobs will continue as was. Remind anyone of another issue? |
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| morayloon | Oct 6 2017, 11:44 AM Post #60 |
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The major banks will still have to operate in Catalonia. RBS during Indyref was reported to be leaving if Yes won, it turned out they meant only the HQ. This was bad enough news and many people changed banks. That is what will happen in Catalonia and the banks know it. The only winners will be the banks who do not forsake Catalonia Remind me again why jobs would have been lost in Scotland? Multi Nationals only care about money. Many distilleries are owned by the likes of Diageo & Chivas. Are these companies going to walk away from their investment in a very popular product. I think not. Oil will still be extracted and piped to Scotland. The rigs will still need to be manned etc., etc. I am afraid you are the naive one. |
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| Pro Veritas | Oct 8 2017, 10:18 AM Post #61 |
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IIRC The title of this Thread is Catalonia, NOT Scotland. Let's try and get things back on topic shall we. All The Best |
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| marybrown | Oct 8 2017, 11:52 AM Post #62 |
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Already a lot of banks and business's are pulling out of Barcelona..They are expecting a Tiananmen Square type standoff.. |
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| marybrown | Oct 8 2017, 03:09 PM Post #63 |
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Oops sorry..landed on the wrong thread..I thought this thread was about Catalan people..Are The Scottish in any way related? |
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| Steve K | Oct 8 2017, 03:14 PM Post #64 |
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Once and future cynic
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Quite Thread closed for a while to enable it to be de-Scotted in line with the previous Mod NoticeUpdate: and reopened Edited by Steve K, Oct 8 2017, 03:34 PM.
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| marybrown | Oct 8 2017, 03:43 PM Post #65 |
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The Catalan people are very proud.. and would rather die standing up than live on their knees.. |
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| Steve K | Oct 8 2017, 03:54 PM Post #66 |
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Once and future cynic
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And that's the danger Madrid just isn't taking on board |
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| marybrown | Oct 8 2017, 04:00 PM Post #67 |
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Most of the Banks are moving to Madrid..from Barcelona.. |
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| morayloon | Oct 8 2017, 04:22 PM Post #68 |
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I do think the discussion was becoming too Scotland centred. However, I hope this post will pass the test since it is, despite the Scottish references, about Catalonia Comparison with Scotland [and this is relevant] showed that RBS lost custom when it threatened to leave Edinburgh. I fear the same thing would happen to Catalan Banks whose customers would switch accounts to supportive banks. The thing about RBS was that it was state owned and the state was throwing everything at Yes. The big question is, how will the Catalans react to Banks which move their HQ out of Catalonia e.g. Sabadell? I think that Independence supporters will follow the example of Yes supporters. |
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| Steve K | Oct 8 2017, 04:25 PM Post #69 |
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Once and future cynic
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Yep fair point But the truth surely is that as an independent state Catalonia would be below critical mass and faced with a choice the banks would migrate to where the most money is to be traded. In the rest of Spain |
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| Rich | Oct 8 2017, 07:08 PM Post #70 |
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As I have often maintained, if you (interfering government) try to deny a section of society of their cultural identity then they will only make that sector even more determined to retain such identity.....peoples can and will mix but cultures are what makes a person patriotic and to value ones homeland.....and if necessary fight and win two world wars to do so....Bring on the 11/11/17. I can clearly see where the Catalonians are coming from. But I disagree with the way that they and the Spanish hit squads are going about it. |
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| marybrown | Oct 9 2017, 12:52 PM Post #71 |
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I agree..there doesn't seem to be any debate....or any diplomacy.. And I think that the way the Catalans were treated during the ''referendum'' it will make them even more determined!! |
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| Alberich | Oct 9 2017, 02:51 PM Post #72 |
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From what I can see, there are as many, if not a majority of Catalonians in favour of remaining part of Spain, as there are for leaving. It's rather like Scotland, in that the minority who are incapable of thinking things through, shout for independence without the slightest idea of how it would affect them, while the silent majority simply keep them in check when the time comes. As will happen here. |
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| Steve K | Oct 10 2017, 10:08 AM Post #73 |
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Once and future cynic
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Seems so Tensions appear to be rising ahead of the big speech today to the Catalan parliament as there is speculation their local president will blink. Hard to see how he can and not look like a prat but hopefully he can find a way. ~40% of ~90% is no mandate for secession http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41562155 |
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| Steve K | Oct 10 2017, 06:06 PM Post #74 |
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He blinked http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41574172 Wise imho |
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| morayloon | Oct 20 2017, 08:29 PM Post #75 |
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It seems that it will all come to a head tomorrow (Saturday). Rajoy and his Unionist allies look set to impose Direct Rule. They are also said to be forcing an election in Catalonia despite the fact it is not in their power to do so. What will the Catalan response be? Will Puigedemont carry out last week's Independence proclamation? |
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| morayloon | Oct 20 2017, 08:35 PM Post #76 |
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The only Scots who were thinking were those who voted Yes. Many were turned because they researched the topics involved. Central to the cause were the online outlets like Wings, Bella & Newsnet Scotland. They pointed out the deficiencies of the unionist arguments. Yet another promise reneged on. Shipbuilding on the Clyde was safe only under the Union we were told. Well now we know we can really trust our overlords https://wingsoverscotland.com/we-dont-see-no-ships/ |
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| Deleted User | Oct 20 2017, 08:38 PM Post #77 |
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Afaik there was a very poor turnout in the referendum and although the vote was for independence there probably is not enough support in the Catalan region for declaring UDI or even for the consequences of forcing the issue. You know more about the situation than me but I cannot envisage this ending up with an independent Catalonia no matter what happens. |
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| Rich | Oct 20 2017, 08:54 PM Post #78 |
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As I have said before, if you seek to impose the denial of an identity culture upon a peoples whose history goes back centuries by force then you are asking for trouble....vis a vis the Scots, Irish and the Welsh and the UK. You will never defeat deep seated culture and patriotism, if the Spanish govt have any sense, then they will eventually use the power of my most favourite word and that is.....compromise.
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| Ewill | Oct 21 2017, 08:46 AM Post #79 |
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Independence from Rome referenda in Veneto and Lombardy regions tomorrow Non binding but the outcome from Italy's wealthiest regions will be interesting |
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| morayloon | Oct 21 2017, 10:55 AM Post #80 |
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The 2 regions are only seeking greater autonomy within the Italian state. |
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