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Las Vegas Shootings - 50 reported dead
Topic Started: Oct 2 2017, 10:22 AM (1,001 Views)
Steve K
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

Not good at all, appalling. Shooter is apparently a local 64 year old called Stephen Paddock and is now dead.

Story is still developing

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papasmurf
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Curious Cdn
Oct 3 2017, 10:24 PM
.

The NRA is NOT a fringe organisation. They are an extremely influential one, near the center of power in the USA.

The NRA gave $30 million to Trump's election campaign so as you state not a fringe organisation.
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Oddball
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papasmurf
Oct 4 2017, 04:02 PM
Curious Cdn
Oct 3 2017, 10:24 PM
.

The NRA is NOT a fringe organisation. They are an extremely influential one, near the center of power in the USA.

The NRA gave $30 million to Trump's election campaign so as you state not a fringe organisation.
Not so much to Trump though, as to the Republican Party, which it seems to trust more to toe their line.
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Curious Cdn
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johnofgwent
Oct 2 2017, 09:00 PM
Steve K
Oct 2 2017, 10:58 AM
Oddball
Oct 2 2017, 10:30 AM
Steve - It is not the first, and it won't be the last, regrettibly. The US is still wedded to their 'Wild West' and 'Cabin in the Clearing' mentality - and thus a sacrosanct perception of the 2nd Amendment. Nevada is one of the most lax of the States regarding any form of gun control.

As an ex-SAS friend of mine once said, "I blame Hollywood".
Does have all the hallmarks of a nutter enabled by that perverse interpretation of the 2nd amendment

Death toll worsening by the hour, now "at least 50".

leaving aside all else, i see various media pages refer to Nevada having the most lax gun laws in the union, which may, or may not be.

what confuses me is, did not the bell boy notice the weight of all that hardware ?? and is it NORMAL for guests to check in to the mandalay bay packing that much ???


You mean, like this?
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Attachments: 22195471_1481916398556207_4285164194282565010_n.jpg (47.6 KB)
Edited by Curious Cdn, Oct 4 2017, 10:08 PM.
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papasmurf
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"I am not a hero." It is said there are two kinds of people in emergencies, those who pass water and those who walk on water.

He may be a red-neck youth with a pick up truck, but whether he likes it or not he is a hero.

https://www.channel4.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-the-story-of-one-man-who-rescued-more-than-two-dozen-people
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papasmurf
Oct 6 2017, 10:00 AM
"I am not a hero." It is said there are two kinds of people in emergencies, those who pass water and those who walk on water.

He may be a red-neck youth with a pick up truck, but whether he likes it or not he is a hero.

https://www.channel4.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-the-story-of-one-man-who-rescued-more-than-two-dozen-people
Good lad very brave, seen a lot of clips of people showing bravery and putting others first, there was one that had the best police scanner audio but sadly it has been removed, I have no idea why as it clearly showed the initial confusion then the steps taken to get a grip of the situation and the bravery of the police.
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papasmurf
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Delf
Oct 6 2017, 10:49 AM
Good lad very brave,
I suspect no-one had told the British squaddies: "Never Volunteer."

http://news.sky.com/story/british-soldiers-ran-towards-danger-to-help-victims-of-las-vegas-shooting-11068881

British soldiers ran towards danger to help victims of Las Vegas shooting

Soldiers from The Queen's Dragoon Guards shepherded people to safety and gave first aid to those trying to escape the gunfire.
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Curious Cdn
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We take our national health care system for granted. Several Canadians who were wounded down there are facing hospital bills of tens of thousands of dollars per day with little of it covered.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/10/05/uninsured-canadian-victims-may-face-staggering-medical-bills-after-las-vegas-attack.html
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbOFwWquAw
What do you make of this one though, some saying more than one shooter?
Could be shooter moving from one window to the other?
I don't know...
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Curious Cdn
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It IS hard to imagine that one lone shooter, so far away, shot over 400 plus people like that.
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papasmurf
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Delf
Oct 6 2017, 11:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbOFwWquAw
What do you make of this one though, some saying more than one shooter?
Could be shooter moving from one window to the other?
I don't know...
Frankly complete bullshit false news that has been discredited.

However like a police officer from the area stated it does seem close to impossible for there not to have been someone else involved in getting all the guns and ammunition up in to the room.
I have carried a largish number of semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons in a car in the past, and a on one occasion 5000 rounds of ammunition.
(Both together would need a small truck.)
The logistics make getting what he did to the room on his own stretching credulity.
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ranger121
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Apparently, the guy was in there for a week prior.

Plenty of time to assemble his arsenal bit by bit.




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marybrown
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papasmurf
Oct 2 2017, 07:19 PM
Rich
Oct 2 2017, 06:57 PM


Mind you, there is no way you can stop the obtaining of illegal firearms if one is determined to get one/many.
Even in Britain, however it would be VERY difficult and costly to get a similar arsenal in Britain, unless one "imported" it one's self.
I don't know what the criteria is in America..

(A) what is your name?

(B) where do you live?

(C) are you nuts?..

Ok Sir..here is your AK47..Have a nice day...
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ranger121
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http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/02/health/nevada-gun-laws-trnd/index.html



*warning* Graphic video of the event is included on this item.





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papasmurf
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ranger121
Oct 6 2017, 03:49 PM




*warning* Graphic video of the event is included on this item.





A video I apparently do not have the technology to run.
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Steve K
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ranger121
Oct 6 2017, 02:39 PM
Apparently, the guy was in there for a week prior.

Plenty of time to assemble his arsenal bit by bit.




He allegedly brought in 10 suitcases

With a typical AR-15 (his main weapon type) being ~9lb then very easy to have got that many weapons into the room and have room to thousands of rounds
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Curious Cdn
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Steve K
Oct 6 2017, 07:43 PM
ranger121
Oct 6 2017, 02:39 PM
Apparently, the guy was in there for a week prior.

Plenty of time to assemble his arsenal bit by bit.




He allegedly brought in 10 suitcases

With a typical AR-15 (his main weapon type) being ~9lb then very easy to have got that many weapons into the room and have room to thousands of rounds
This was planned in great detail. There is no "bad day" spontanaety to any of this and that really amplifies the evil that has occurred. This guy wanted to shoot hundreds of people and he worked out the logistics of doing it for weeks ... months all the while considering how to shoot hundreds of people.
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Rich
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Curious Cdn
Oct 7 2017, 12:45 AM
Steve K
Oct 6 2017, 07:43 PM
ranger121
Oct 6 2017, 02:39 PM
Apparently, the guy was in there for a week prior.

Plenty of time to assemble his arsenal bit by bit.




He allegedly brought in 10 suitcases

With a typical AR-15 (his main weapon type) being ~9lb then very easy to have got that many weapons into the room and have room to thousands of rounds
This was planned in great detail. There is no "bad day" spontanaety to any of this and that really amplifies the evil that has occurred. This guy wanted to shoot hundreds of people and he worked out the logistics of doing it for weeks ... months all the while considering how to shoot hundreds of people.
You could very well be right, and seeing as it was night-time I would assume that he must have had provision for seeing in the dark, as it were, for against the backdrop of the lights at the concert, all he could have seen were black shapes milling around and enjoying the event.

This was not the act of a madman per se, it was clinically thought out for whatever reason by a psychopath.

You can never judge a book by it's cover.  nonono:
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Jessamy Bride
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He had some sort of gadget to make his long guns automatic...... called a "bump stock"
The authorities are looking at the free availability of those.

Other than that...The people seem happy to keep their gun laws ...and Nevada changed their regulation 2015 to hark back to an earlier age on concealment

"Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else."

 :( Oh My

What a victory that was.


Edited by Jessamy Bride, Oct 7 2017, 08:06 PM.
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Rich
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Jessamy Bride
Oct 7 2017, 08:04 PM
He had some sort of gadget to make his long guns automatic...... called a "bump stock"
The authorities are looking at the free availability of those.

Other than that...The people seem happy to keep their gun laws ...and Nevada changed their regulation 2015 to hark back to an earlier age on concealment

"Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else."

 :( Oh My

What a victory that was.


What worries me is the old saying of "when America sneezes we get a get a cold" later on.....I do hope that that is not the case where firearms are concerned.
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ranger121
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Rich
Oct 7 2017, 08:09 PM
What worries me is the old saying of "when America sneezes we get a get a cold" later on.....I do hope that that is not the case where firearms are concerned.
You can rest assured that the UK has completed it's stranglehold on what a citizen of the UK may arm themselves with to protect itself from tyranny, criminals or 'the authorities'.

In the UK, you cannot carry any weapon whatsoever without fear of arrest.

The police can and will be armed with taser, pepper spray, CS gas spray, baton, and various kinds of large and small caliber weapons which may be deployed depending on the circumstances.

A witness only has to include the word 'knife' in a 999 call for heavily armed specialised police to turn up.

It's already written into our laws and police have permission to use deadly force against anyone who has the temerity to argue with them.

You can bet your house that these rules won't be changed anytime soon.


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Curious Cdn
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Jessamy Bride
Oct 7 2017, 08:04 PM
He had some sort of gadget to make his long guns automatic...... called a "bump stock"
The authorities are looking at the free availability of those.

Other than that...The people seem happy to keep their gun laws ...and Nevada changed their regulation 2015 to hark back to an earlier age on concealment

"Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else."

 :( Oh My

What a victory that was.


The NRA threw "bump stocks"under the bus so that freedom-loving patriots can continue to fill every room in their houses with good ole, All-American Kalashnikovs.

Yeahl

Hoo!
Edited by Curious Cdn, Oct 8 2017, 12:02 AM.
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Eric Paddock, don't believe a word that slithers out of this wired blokes mouth and the cocaine booger at 1:45 makes me want to barf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGJAIEdJtFM
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papasmurf
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ranger121
Oct 7 2017, 11:25 PM


In the UK, you cannot carry any weapon whatsoever without fear of arrest.

In theory. That requires that are any police around to make an arrest.
Whist my wife was in hospital for some tests last week I went to do some shopping in what is basically a pedestrian area.
A drug dealing team was operating openly, (if you know what you are looking for,) as they have been for the last 30 years that I am aware of, only the members of it have changed over time.
It would have been no problem at all to off the lot of them with a firearm and disappear, long before any police turned up.
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papasmurf
Oct 8 2017, 08:06 AM
ranger121
Oct 7 2017, 11:25 PM


In the UK, you cannot carry any weapon whatsoever without fear of arrest.

In theory. That requires that are any police around to make an arrest.
Whist my wife was in hospital for some tests last week I went to do some shopping in what is basically a pedestrian area.
A drug dealing team was operating openly, (if you know what you are looking for,) as they have been for the last 30 years that I am aware of, only the members of it have changed over time.
It would have been no problem at all to off the lot of them with a firearm and disappear, long before any police turned up.
Did you not have the broken butter knife handy?
 !bgrin!
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Steve K
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Curious Cdn
Oct 7 2017, 11:59 PM
Jessamy Bride
Oct 7 2017, 08:04 PM
He had some sort of gadget to make his long guns automatic...... called a "bump stock"
The authorities are looking at the free availability of those.

Other than that...The people seem happy to keep their gun laws ...and Nevada changed their regulation 2015 to hark back to an earlier age on concealment

"Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else."

 :( Oh My

What a victory that was.


The NRA threw "bump stocks"under the bus so that freedom-loving patriots can continue to fill every room in their houses with good ole, All-American Kalashnikovs.

Yeahl

Hoo!
And a bump stop must be the easiest part of that set up to home manufacture

Guns will never destroy the USA, just help ensure it remains a deeply unpleasant place to spend any substantial time in.
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papasmurf
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Delf
Oct 8 2017, 11:04 AM
Did you not have the broken butter knife handy?
 !bgrin!
I would much prefer this designed for humane killing of wounded animals.

Posted Image
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Curious Cdn
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papasmurf
Oct 8 2017, 11:22 AM
Delf
Oct 8 2017, 11:04 AM
Did you not have the broken butter knife handy?
 !bgrin!
I would much prefer this designed for humane killing of wounded animals.

Posted Image
Why is it made in a "break down" form? ... so that the Jackal can carry one in his lunch box?
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papasmurf
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Curious Cdn
Oct 9 2017, 01:28 PM
Why is it made in a "break down" form? ... so that the Jackal can carry one in his lunch box?
Comes in a carrying case with cleaning kit and spare parts.

Posted Image
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Rich
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papasmurf
Oct 9 2017, 01:37 PM
Curious Cdn
Oct 9 2017, 01:28 PM
Why is it made in a "break down" form? ... so that the Jackal can carry one in his lunch box?
Comes in a carrying case with cleaning kit and spare parts.

Posted Image
As per usual forum members, this will all go quiet in the states until the next outrage and then the handwringing and finger pointing will begin again for the umpteenth time.

There used to be a time here in the UK when a murder made the front page of most daily papers.....that does not happen now, they are reported (if important enough) on the inside pages tucked away in a bottom corner on a non descript news page.
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C-too
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IMO anyone with a large collection of weapons, as is so often the case in America, has a mental problem.
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Curious Cdn
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Rich
Oct 9 2017, 11:12 PM
papasmurf
Oct 9 2017, 01:37 PM
Curious Cdn
Oct 9 2017, 01:28 PM
Why is it made in a "break down" form? ... so that the Jackal can carry one in his lunch box?
Comes in a carrying case with cleaning kit and spare parts.

Posted Image
As per usual forum members, this will all go quiet in the states until the next outrage and then the handwringing and finger pointing will begin again for the umpteenth time.

There used to be a time here in the UK when a murder made the front page of most daily papers.....that does not happen now, they are reported (if important enough) on the inside pages tucked away in a bottom corner on a non descript news page.
The difference being that you guys are grown-ups for the most part. The United States is one, big twelve-year-old girl and every day is her birthday.

The Americans will never fix that nor their backwards health care system nor the horrible divisions in their nation.
They have stopped learning new tricks. They are the Austro-Hungarian Empire and it's August, 1914.

Get ready to adapt to a new world order.
Edited by Curious Cdn, Oct 11 2017, 10:01 PM.
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ranger121
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As the dust settles on this incident, questions are beginning to emerge about what actually happened here.

I'm not really one for the conspiracy theories, but I have doubts now that the 'officials' have recounted their theories of the event.

For example, LV is literally covered in CCTV. Yet absolutely no evidence has emerged from any camera which would have recorded anything.

No images of the bloke checking in. None of the corridor that his room was on, showing him toting a large number of weapons and ammo in big bags as he collected his arsenal together. No footage of the man coming and going from the hotel.

A hotel with a casino in Vagas will have an infinite number of cameras recording everything that goes on and it is ludicrous to say that somehow 'they weren't working' on the day or in the week or so prior. Casinos take security very seriously and want to know who is inside their building at any moment. A camera goes down, they fix it straight away.

After the crime was committed and the man killed in the room allegedly by his own hand, photographs released by the FBI of the scene do not show any weapon which was capable of firing approximately 100 rounds in a single burst. Allegedly, a security guard was shot through the hotel door as he arrived to deal with something, but the 200 rounds allegedly shot at him didn't completely destroy the door (!) and only one out of the alleged 200 shots actually hit him. The shots fired both at the guard and out of the window should have produced a huge pile of spent cartridges, which appear to be missing from the scene.

These are just a few of the questions.
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Tigger
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ranger121
Nov 2 2017, 04:06 PM


After the crime was committed and the man killed in the room allegedly by his own hand, photographs released by the FBI of the scene do not show any weapon which was capable of firing approximately 100 rounds in a single burst.
Fire off all the rounds in one gun and then pick up another fully loaded weapon and continue?

Barrels glow red hot and jam you fire off a long and uninterupted burst, most automatic weapons have quick change barrels to get round this problem.
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ranger121
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Tigger
Nov 2 2017, 06:35 PM
ranger121
Nov 2 2017, 04:06 PM


After the crime was committed and the man killed in the room allegedly by his own hand, photographs released by the FBI of the scene do not show any weapon which was capable of firing approximately 100 rounds in a single burst.
Fire off all the rounds in one gun and then pick up another fully loaded weapon and continue?

Barrels glow red hot and jam you fire off a long and uninterupted burst, most automatic weapons have quick change barrels to get round this problem.
Apparently from the videos available, two bursts of continuous fire were heard which did not have stops for reloading or putting down one weapon then using another.

Is there an explanation as to why the the two sets of shots sounded like they came from two different points?

Any explanation as to why the 'taxi driver's' video was edited by mainstream media?
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Steve K
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Well here's a mix of debunked and undetermined conspiracy theories about the incident

https://www.snopes.com/las-vegas-shooting-rumors-hoaxes-and-conspiracy-theories/
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ranger121
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There are indeed. We all know exactly what kind of conspiracy nut-jobs will leap forward with some wild theory when things like this happen.

But some things don't make sense.

Like the lack of CCTV footage from the myriad of cameras available in and around the hotel and the missing shell cases, the ever-changing time-line from 'official' sources and the unlikely scenario that anyone could wander into a Vagas casino with large numbers of guns and ammo without being picked up by security or anyone else for that matter.

It's highly strange, to the point of unbelievable.


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Tigger
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ranger121
Nov 2 2017, 09:59 PM
There are indeed. We all know exactly what kind of conspiracy nut-jobs will leap forward with some wild theory when things like this happen.

But some things don't make sense.

Like the lack of CCTV footage from the myriad of cameras available in and around the hotel and the missing shell cases, the ever-changing time-line from 'official' sources and the unlikely scenario that anyone could wander into a Vagas casino with large numbers of guns and ammo without being picked up by security or anyone else for that matter.

It's highly strange, to the point of unbelievable.


I just can't see any point of covering anything up or trying to falsify the already horrific facts of this shooting, what would be the reasons, the believable reasons that is?
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ranger121
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In that case why are the 'powers that be' reluctant to release the video evidence (that no doubt is available) to confirm their story that there was one shooter who, aged 64 years old. could possibly sprint some 30 yards across a room (rather... Double Suite with 2 bars etc) then resume firing a different weapon some 5 seconds later?

If there were so many weapons and ammo to hand, why be running round the rooms trying to find something to shoot with?

As to the reasons, well who knows? Glancing around the web, the anti-gun lobby appear favourites.




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Tigger
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ranger121
Nov 3 2017, 01:14 AM
In that case why are the 'powers that be' reluctant to release the video evidence (that no doubt is available) to confirm their story that there was one shooter who, aged 64 years old. could possibly sprint some 30 yards across a room (rather... Double Suite with 2 bars etc) then resume firing a different weapon some 5 seconds later?

If there were so many weapons and ammo to hand, why be running round the rooms trying to find something to shoot with?

As to the reasons, well who knows? Glancing around the web, the anti-gun lobby appear favourites.




Sorry that's just too much supposition for me to take in!

How about lone nutter shoots people in US? Nothing strange or unusual about that as it happens all the time............
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ranger121
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It may be some weird co-incidence but all the exits were chained up at 10pm. The people inside were corralled. Could be that crowd management had decided that the crowd was getting large enough for the space allocated, as the band were attracting more with the noise. There was one exit open for the large crowd.

The forward stage brights were illuminated during the firings, after the band had run off-stage. Of course, this could easily be explained as some lighting engineer (in a panic, he's being shot at) thinking he was helping by illuminating the scene to somehow point the crowd to the exits, which were chained shut, or was he under some instruction to turn up the house lights in the event of emergency, or maybe the targets needed further lighting.

I don't know.
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