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Merkel in deep trouble; German Election
Topic Started: Nov 17 2017, 12:02 AM (663 Views)
xosg
Senior Member
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Seems poor old Angela the Darling of the Left and progressives movements cannot form a government due to the rise of the right in part. Stumbling block seems to be, capping immigration sounds familiar. I wonder if the people have had enough of all this PC propaganda and Immigration once and for all. Given the rise of the right in Europe,which they denied and still do,seems to me Macron also is not doing very favourably with the public on his progressive views. I wonder if we have seen the end of left dogma and a new era is about to take over.Or could it be the start of the fall of the EU given the strength of feeling in Hungary Poland Italy and most recently Austria Spain and Catalonia,where people are embracing the notion of nation states at last
Edited by xosg, Nov 17 2017, 12:03 AM.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Classic ignorance! Because the government is always a coalition it takes time to put it all togehter, guess how long it took last time? ;-)
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Certainly not having an easy time right now. That's what you get with PResque voting solutions though. Amazing that the Greens want no cap on humanitarian migration. The Gruns really wouldn't want her to call a snap election leaving them campaigning for that

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-politics/merkel-facing-long-coalition-talks-offers-bigger-cuts-in-coal-fired-power-idUSKBN1DG10H
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Rich
Senior Member
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Steve K
Nov 17 2017, 12:17 AM
Certainly not having an easy time right now. That's what you get with PResque voting solutions though. Amazing that the Greens want no cap on humanitarian migration. The Gruns really wouldn't want her to call a snap election leaving them campaigning for that

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-politics/merkel-facing-long-coalition-talks-offers-bigger-cuts-in-coal-fired-power-idUSKBN1DG10H
I am not particularly worried, but I would dearly love to be a fly on the wall when she explains to German taxpayers that when Brexit finally happens in March 29, 2019, then that subscription hole will have to be filled or the less wealthy member states will have accept diluted financial aid.

Given the choice, I wonder then what the uber deutschlanders will choose, if the latter then, other member states may well wish to chance their arm and leave and go it alone.

Interesting times.

I would like to see the EU decommissioned for no other reason than to see all those MEP's on fabulous wages get a real job.

Then and only then will they get the first hand experience of what their policy making has done to the hard working taxpayers of Europe.
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Nov 17 2017, 12:14 AM
Classic ignorance! Because the government is always a coalition it takes time to put it all togehter, guess how long it took last time? ;-)
True. But they have never had AFD to deal with or a millon immigrants
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marybrown
Senior Member
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xosg
Nov 17 2017, 05:17 PM
Tigger
Nov 17 2017, 12:14 AM
Classic ignorance! Because the government is always a coalition it takes time to put it all togehter, guess how long it took last time? ;-)
True. But they have never had AFD to deal with or a millon immigrants
I wonder what Germany gives them? Housing? Free money? Free health care? Have they found jobs for a million migrants?
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xosg
Senior Member
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marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 01:48 PM
xosg
Nov 17 2017, 05:17 PM
Tigger
Nov 17 2017, 12:14 AM
Classic ignorance! Because the government is always a coalition it takes time to put it all togehter, guess how long it took last time? ;-)
True. But they have never had AFD to deal with or a millon immigrants
I wonder what Germany gives them? Housing? Free money? Free health care? Have they found jobs for a million migrants?
Doubt it. But what it has done is kick her out of power hopefully.
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Rich
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xosg
Nov 18 2017, 02:22 PM
marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 01:48 PM
xosg
Nov 17 2017, 05:17 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepalways
I wonder what Germany gives them? Housing? Free money? Free health care? Have they found jobs for a million migrants?
Doubt it. But what it has done is kick her out of power hopefully.
I think Germany, just like the UK are fed up with the status quo.

It takes time for a big chunk of voters to go against establishments that have been going for decades.....but believe you me, it happens and will happen in Europe, one by one they too will leave despite whatever happens to the UK and eventually the EU will probably only consist of only 5 member states.

Germany,
France,
Netherlands,
Italy and Spain.

The rest will just go their own way, I do however wonder, if that does come about in maybe 10 years time, what will happen to the schengen agreement and the 4 freedoms.

Ah well, plenty to ponder upon. :)

Edited by Rich, Nov 18 2017, 02:30 PM.
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marybrown
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 18 2017, 02:29 PM
xosg
Nov 18 2017, 02:22 PM
marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 01:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepalways
Doubt it. But what it has done is kick her out of power hopefully.
I think Germany, just like the UK are fed up with the status quo.

It takes time for a big chunk of voters to go against establishments that have been going for decades.....but believe you me, it happens and will happen in Europe, one by one they too will leave despite whatever happens to the UK and eventually the EU will probably only consist of only 5 member states.

Germany,
France,
Netherlands,
Italy and Spain.

The rest will just go their own way, I do however wonder, if that does come about in maybe 10 years time, what will happen to the schengen agreement and the 4 freedoms.

Ah well, plenty to ponder upon. :)

It will be too late Rich??
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Rich
Senior Member
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marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 02:47 PM
Rich
Nov 18 2017, 02:29 PM
xosg
Nov 18 2017, 02:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepalways
I think Germany, just like the UK are fed up with the status quo.

It takes time for a big chunk of voters to go against establishments that have been going for decades.....but believe you me, it happens and will happen in Europe, one by one they too will leave despite whatever happens to the UK and eventually the EU will probably only consist of only 5 member states.

Germany,
France,
Netherlands,
Italy and Spain.

The rest will just go their own way, I do however wonder, if that does come about in maybe 10 years time, what will happen to the schengen agreement and the 4 freedoms.

Ah well, plenty to ponder upon. :)

It will be too late Rich??
It is already too late with regard to "open door policy" in the UK, .....the damage is done and irreversible.

I defy any member of Parliament let alone concerned and interested dabating forum members to say how many bods are on this small and apparently "insignifacant" Island.

Fxxk me....why on earth would anybody want to come here, legally or illegally for that matter.

According to some on this forum, this country is worth diddly squat and we are idiots for being patriots of it.

Perhaps those commentators should have watched the commemoration of rememberance at the Cenotaph last Sunday.

Just my nationalistic thoughts and nothing more.

Am I glad I was born in this country?.....you can bet your last fxxxxxg bottom dollar I am.

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papasmurf
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 18 2017, 03:29 PM


Fxxk me....why on earth would anybody want to come here, legally or illegally for that matter.

I blame the gutter press, bad employers, and lack of enforcement of minimum pay and minimum working conditions. Don't get me started on Health and Safety or rather lack of it and foreign workers.)
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Rich
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 18 2017, 03:35 PM
Rich
Nov 18 2017, 03:29 PM


Fxxk me....why on earth would anybody want to come here, legally or illegally for that matter.

I blame the gutter press, bad employers, and lack of enforcement of minimum pay and minimum working conditions. Don't get me started on Health and Safety or rather lack of it and foreign workers.)
To cite another poster on this forum Papa, you completely miss the point,

I'll give you a heads up clue.

They do not come here for the weather or sightseeing. ;-)
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marybrown
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 18 2017, 03:29 PM
marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 02:47 PM
Rich
Nov 18 2017, 02:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepalways
It will be too late Rich??
It is already too late with regard to "open door policy" in the UK, .....the damage is done and irreversible.

I defy any member of Parliament let alone concerned and interested dabating forum members to say how many bods are on this small and apparently "insignifacant" Island.

Fxxk me....why on earth would anybody want to come here, legally or illegally for that matter.

According to some on this forum, this country is worth diddly squat and we are idiots for being patriots of it.

Perhaps those commentators should have watched the commemoration of rememberance at the Cenotaph last Sunday.

Just my nationalistic thoughts and nothing more.

Am I glad I was born in this country?.....you can bet your last fxxxxxg bottom dollar I am.

I am proud to be English.. :thumbsup:
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Tigger
Senior Member
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marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 01:48 PM
I wonder what Germany gives them? Housing? Free money? Free health care? Have they found jobs for a million migrants?


Medical care?

Coming to a doctors waiting room in Munich?
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 18 2017, 03:29 PM
marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 02:47 PM
Rich
Nov 18 2017, 02:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepalways
It will be too late Rich??
It is already too late with regard to "open door policy" in the UK, .....the damage is done and irreversible.

I defy any member of Parliament let alone concerned and interested dabating forum members to say how many bods are on this small and apparently "insignifacant" Island.

Fxxk me....why on earth would anybody want to come here, legally or illegally for that matter.

According to some on this forum, this country is worth diddly squat and we are idiots for being patriots of it.

Perhaps those commentators should have watched the commemoration of rememberance at the Cenotaph last Sunday.

Just my nationalistic thoughts and nothing more.

Am I glad I was born in this country?.....you can bet your last fxxxxxg bottom dollar I am.

What a self pitying post!


The nation isn't just about you you know.
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Nov 18 2017, 05:34 PM
Rich
Nov 18 2017, 03:29 PM
marybrown
Nov 18 2017, 02:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepalways
It is already too late with regard to "open door policy" in the UK, .....the damage is done and irreversible.

I defy any member of Parliament let alone concerned and interested dabating forum members to say how many bods are on this small and apparently "insignifacant" Island.

Fxxk me....why on earth would anybody want to come here, legally or illegally for that matter.

According to some on this forum, this country is worth diddly squat and we are idiots for being patriots of it.

Perhaps those commentators should have watched the commemoration of rememberance at the Cenotaph last Sunday.

Just my nationalistic thoughts and nothing more.

Am I glad I was born in this country?.....you can bet your last fxxxxxg bottom dollar I am.

What a self pitying post!


The nation isn't just about you you know.
What defines a nation ?

To me that is, borders ,language ,culture, values.

All of which we are slowly losing,but hopefully being turned around slowly

If the left have their way, BORDERS basically anything on 2 legs can come in here now. Effectively doing away with the border

If the left have their way, lLANGUAGE.speaks for itself. Try walking down any high street in the country. In a lot of places you will hear everything bar English

If the left have their way, CULTURE tells you a lot when the most popular babies name is Mohammed and most popular dish is Chicken Tiki.

If the left have their way, VALUES. We see the slow erosion of these every day in grooming gangs, lack of respect for the past.

How I despise the left I cannot put into words
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Rich
Senior Member
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xosg
Nov 18 2017, 07:58 PM
Tigger
Nov 18 2017, 05:34 PM
Rich
Nov 18 2017, 03:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepalways
What a self pitying post!


The nation isn't just about you you know.
What defines a nation ?

To me that is, borders ,language ,culture, values.

All of which we are slowly losing,but hopefully being turned around slowly

If the left have their way, BORDERS basically anything on 2 legs can come in here now. Effectively doing away with the border

If the left have their way, lLANGUAGE.speaks for itself. Try walking down any high street in the country. In a lot of places you will hear everything bar English

If the left have their way, CULTURE tells you a lot when the most popular babies name is Mohammed and most popular dish is Chicken Tiki.

If the left have their way, VALUES. We see the slow erosion of these every day in grooming gangs, lack of respect for the past.

How I despise the left I cannot put into words
I can, but I dare not. ;-)
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Affa
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I had a Pakistani doctor thirty years ago.
It wasn't a Labour government that had a contunuing policy of overseas recruitment drives for the NHS.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:02 AM
I had a Pakistani doctor thirty years ago.
It wasn't a Labour government that had a contunuing policy of overseas recruitment drives for the NHS.
That's a fair comment, why then did they not make the effort to train up and employ more of our own home grown medical students?
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Affa
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:24 AM
Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:02 AM
I had a Pakistani doctor thirty years ago.
It wasn't a Labour government that had a contunuing policy of overseas recruitment drives for the NHS.
That's a fair comment, why then did they not make the effort to train up and employ more of our own home grown medical students?

Cheaper!
It takes five years study, funded by government, to qualify as a doctor, and a similar expense to train nurses.
It's always about 'money' to the Tories, and spending cuts are part of their ethos.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:37 AM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:24 AM
Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:02 AM
I had a Pakistani doctor thirty years ago.
It wasn't a Labour government that had a contunuing policy of overseas recruitment drives for the NHS.
That's a fair comment, why then did they not make the effort to train up and employ more of our own home grown medical students?

Cheaper!
It takes five years study, funded by government, to qualify as a doctor, and a similar expense to train nurses.
It's always about 'money' to the Tories, and spending cuts are part of their ethos.
And labour had plenty of time to alter that situation....did they?
Edited by Rich, Nov 19 2017, 01:43 AM.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:42 AM
Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:37 AM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:24 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Cheaper!
It takes five years study, funded by government, to qualify as a doctor, and a similar expense to train nurses.
It's always about 'money' to the Tories, and spending cuts are part of their ethos.
And labour had plenty of time to alter that situation....did they?
As you well know Blair and his gang DID pump a lot more money into the NHS after years of right wing neglect.
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 18 2017, 04:03 PM
To cite another poster on this forum Papa, you completely miss the point,

I'll give you a heads up clue.

They do not come here for the weather or sightseeing. ;-)
I have missed no point at all. If the people clamouring to get to the UK were told the truth they would stay where they are.
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Rich
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 19 2017, 10:20 AM
Rich
Nov 18 2017, 04:03 PM
To cite another poster on this forum Papa, you completely miss the point,

I'll give you a heads up clue.

They do not come here for the weather or sightseeing. ;-)
I have missed no point at all. If the people clamouring to get to the UK were told the truth they would stay where they are.
The truth?......tell me please Papa what you mean by that.
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papasmurf
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Rich
Nov 19 2017, 11:13 AM
The truth?......tell me please Papa what you mean by that.
I mean that the people clamouring to get here would stop bothering if they knew the dire living conditions they end up in, the exploitation, and the general nastiness which is the reality.
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Ewill
Senior Member
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Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:37 AM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:24 AM
Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:02 AM
I had a Pakistani doctor thirty years ago.
It wasn't a Labour government that had a contunuing policy of overseas recruitment drives for the NHS.
That's a fair comment, why then did they not make the effort to train up and employ more of our own home grown medical students?

Cheaper!

It takes five years study, funded by government


Untrue,undergraduate students of medicine pay their own fees and may access a loan to do so for years 1-4

Gaining admission to the standard five-year courses means you are entitled to receive student loans from Student Finance England for maintenance and tuition fees in the first four years.


Graduate students of medicine cannot access a fee loan for years 1-4

graduate medical and dental students on a five year course are different. In the first four years of the course, they would not be eligible to receive a loan for tuition fees

Spoiler: click to toggle
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marybrown
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:24 AM
Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:02 AM
I had a Pakistani doctor thirty years ago.
It wasn't a Labour government that had a contunuing policy of overseas recruitment drives for the NHS.
That's a fair comment, why then did they not make the effort to train up and employ more of our own home grown medical students?
We do..but once they have qualified...they bugger off to America or Australia!!
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Rich
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 19 2017, 11:25 AM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 11:13 AM
The truth?......tell me please Papa what you mean by that.
I mean that the people clamouring to get here would stop bothering if they knew the dire living conditions they end up in, the exploitation, and the general nastiness which is the reality.
So, are you claiming that asylum seekers and refugees, legal or otherwise are worse off in the UK than they were in the country/place that they came from?
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 19 2017, 12:34 PM
So, are you claiming that asylum seekers and refugees, legal or otherwise are worse off in the UK than they were in the country/place that they came from?
A significant number of the economic migrants are, especially at the low end of employment.
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Rich
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 19 2017, 01:18 PM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 12:34 PM
So, are you claiming that asylum seekers and refugees, legal or otherwise are worse off in the UK than they were in the country/place that they came from?
A significant number of the economic migrants are, especially at the low end of employment.
They do have another option.
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:22 PM
They do have another option.
Quite, but they need to be told the truth before thinking about coming here. It is too later after they get here find out the truth and can't afford a ticket home.
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xosg
Senior Member
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Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:02 AM
I had a Pakistani doctor thirty years ago.
It wasn't a Labour government that had a contunuing policy of overseas recruitment drives for the NHS.
Dare say there where Pakistani doctors under Wilson to. Your point is ?

( Only concern with that would be if their qualifications were from Pakistan, as I don't think their training is as high as ours, a genuine concern, I might add )


I have no problem with Pakistani doctors or Indian doctors for that matter, at least they contribute.


However I do have great concern with one armed plumbers and joiners walking in, or as I said basically anyone who has 2 legs. Go look at London underpasses to see our useful immigrants and what they contribute FACT.



Edited by xosg, Nov 19 2017, 01:54 PM.
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xosg
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 19 2017, 11:25 AM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 11:13 AM
The truth?......tell me please Papa what you mean by that.
I mean that the people clamouring to get here would stop bothering if they knew the dire living conditions they end up in, the exploitation, and the general nastiness which is the reality.
Then lets advertise it and stop the fookers
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Nov 19 2017, 10:13 AM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:42 AM
Affa
Nov 19 2017, 01:37 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
And labour had plenty of time to alter that situation....did they?
As you well know Blair and his gang DID pump a lot more money into the NHS after years of right wing neglect.
Yes, and left it in the shit. With more debt than it ever had.

Look at the PFI deals hospitals are crippled with the repayments for the next god knows how many years. All in hoc to private investment.

Yes those great liberators done more to privatise the NHS than conservatives ever have. Your just to blind to see it
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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xosg
Nov 19 2017, 01:38 PM
Then lets advertise it and stop the fookers
Unfortunately the "fookers" are now spread across the French side of the English Channel from the Belgian border to the North Western tip of Brittany waiting for a chance to cross to Britain.
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Rich
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 19 2017, 01:25 PM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:22 PM
They do have another option.
Quite, but they need to be told the truth before thinking about coming here. It is too later after they get here find out the truth and can't afford a ticket home.
Do behave Papa, it would be far cheaper for the taxpayer to pay for their fare home and be done with them rather than let them stay here and have to look after them on humanitarian grounds.

That is why we have a foreign aid budget.
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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Rich
Nov 19 2017, 02:02 PM
Do behave Papa, it would be far cheaper for the taxpayer to pay for their fare home and be done with them
Apparently Cornwall council has started to pay their tickets home. (Small number currently.)
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marybrown
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 19 2017, 01:25 PM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 01:22 PM
They do have another option.
Quite, but they need to be told the truth before thinking about coming here. It is too later after they get here find out the truth and can't afford a ticket home.
What is the truth..they get here..get free housing..free money...free medical care..the more babies they have..the richer they become??
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marybrown
Senior Member
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papasmurf
Nov 19 2017, 02:05 PM
Rich
Nov 19 2017, 02:02 PM
Do behave Papa, it would be far cheaper for the taxpayer to pay for their fare home and be done with them
Apparently Cornwall council has started to pay their tickets home. (Small number currently.)
Things got so bad in Hudds that they went to the Sikh temple..ate and slept there...
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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marybrown
Nov 19 2017, 02:10 PM
What is the truth..they get here..get free housing..free money...free medical care..the more babies they have..the richer they become??
That is the propaganda not the truth, the rude awakening happens after they get here.
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