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D Trump; + merges
Topic Started: Jan 7 2017, 07:31 AM (1,591 Views)
C-too
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Donald trump agrees that there was Russian interference in the election, but he says it did not influence the outcome of the election.

No influence on the outcome because he says so !jk! IMO he has exposed his Mr Smart Mouth immaturity.
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papasmurf
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xosg
Feb 1 2017, 05:21 PM


The "ban" Trump petition has been running since November.I don't know how long the one "FOR" Trump has been running though
What "ban" Trump petition? (Seriously.)
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Happy Hornet
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Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 04:50 PM
Happy Hornet
Feb 1 2017, 04:23 PM
xosg
Feb 1 2017, 04:17 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I've also noticed that the right's passion for freedom of speech seems to have cooled considerably of late.

Wonder why?
If it is the case it is because it is being abused, and being used to disrespect their opponents. So much of it is close to being slanderous. You can have your free speech, I commend it warts and all but does it always have to be discourteous and bad mannered and seeking to offend?
By your words will you be known, by your works will you be judged.

Proverbs 13-3 Whoever guards his mouth preserves his life; he who opens wide his lips comes to ruin.
Freedom of speech means freedom to cause offence. If you don't like it maybe try North Korea?
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Feb 1 2017, 07:04 PM
xosg
Feb 1 2017, 05:21 PM


The "ban" Trump petition has been running since November.I don't know how long the one "FOR" Trump has been running though
What "ban" Trump petition? (Seriously.)
Quite :thumbsup:


For the benefit of those who apparently like to post on topics they don't actually know about, this is what the petition actually says

Quote:
 
Petition
Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.

Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the US Government, but he should not be invited to make an official State Visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen.
Link
I suspect we'll continue to see further posts missing the point

meantime: 1,803,812 signatures
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Happy Hornet
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Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 07:10 PM
papasmurf
Feb 1 2017, 07:04 PM
xosg
Feb 1 2017, 05:21 PM


The "ban" Trump petition has been running since November.I don't know how long the one "FOR" Trump has been running though
What "ban" Trump petition? (Seriously.)
Quite :thumbsup:


For the benefit of those who apparently like to post on topics they don't actually know about, this is what the petition actually says

Quote:
 
Petition
Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.

Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the US Government, but he should not be invited to make an official State Visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen.
Link
I suspect we'll continue to see further posts missing the point

meantime: 1,803,812 signatures
Never ceases to amaze me how a falsehood can become a "fact" simply through repetition.
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Jessamy Bride
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Well...Trumps actions do have a lot of support in the US polls.

Its what the majority of people want.....Who are we to say what they should be doing?...Its not our Country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-travel-immigration-refugees-iran-iraq-syria-a7556186.html
Edited by Jessamy Bride, Feb 1 2017, 07:16 PM.
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Jessamy Bride
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/760902/Donald-Trump-Muslim-ban-Britain-protest-petition-American-President

Surprising lot of support for it in the UK too. Surprising because I had thought all the protest noise was representative.
Apparently, it isn't.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 07:16 PM
Well...Trumps actions do have a lot of support in the US polls.

Its what the majority of people want.....Who are we to say what they should be doing?...Its not our Country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-travel-immigration-refugees-iran-iraq-syria-a7556186.html
Again I refer to the concept of freedom of speech which the right seem to have completely disowned now that they are in power on both sides of the Atlantic.

Seems the poor little snowflakes can't handle a bit of criticism so want to shut down debate.
Edited by Happy Hornet, Feb 1 2017, 07:41 PM.
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 01:31 PM
Is the Queen your Queen to be so concerned about her?
Why not just write to her, tell her of your loyalty to her and the UK and express your concerns and get a reply to keep for posterity. This tells you how to and where to write to.

http://www.wikihow.com/Address-a-Queen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9eK9fWUb3s
A tad confused perhaps? You should know by now that I'm not a fan of royalty, and you should also have worked out that anything that embarrasses the royals or puts them under the spotlight is also a source of amusement for myself, mainly because my national identity is not wrapped up in worship of these folks, I'm for ordinary people, not the establishment. :)
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xosg
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Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 06:59 PM
Quite but as pointed out earlier, that petition most certainly does NOT call to ban Trump
Well I am interpreting it just like the lefties have with Trump,not nice is it ?
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Steve K
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xosg
Feb 1 2017, 09:17 PM
Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 06:59 PM
Quite but as pointed out earlier, that petition most certainly does NOT call to ban Trump
Well I am interpreting it just like the lefties have with Trump,not nice is it ?
Yes of course that must be true, couldn't have been you posted based on a wild guess could it?

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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
Seems the poor little snowflakes can't handle a bit of criticism so want to shut down debate.


The US has a credible voting system and Trump was democratically elected
He is now acting on election promises which appear to have majority popular support.

It wouldn't be my choice (if I did have a vote)........but its difficult to see where you go from there really.
It's what the majority want.
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Cymru
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 07:20 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/760902/Donald-Trump-Muslim-ban-Britain-protest-petition-American-President

Surprising lot of support for it in the UK too. Surprising because I had thought all the protest noise was representative.
Apparently, it isn't.
Indeed.

The protests remind me of that petition the Remoaners started after the Brexit referendum. Much was made of the "millions" who signed it, but it turned out it wasn't millions at all as many of the signatures were the same people signing multiple times as well as signatures by fake persons from Vatican City and North Korea.
Edited by Cymru, Feb 1 2017, 11:07 PM.
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Tytoalba
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Happy Hornet
Feb 1 2017, 07:07 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 04:50 PM
Happy Hornet
Feb 1 2017, 04:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If it is the case it is because it is being abused, and being used to disrespect their opponents. So much of it is close to being slanderous. You can have your free speech, I commend it warts and all but does it always have to be discourteous and bad mannered and seeking to offend?
By your words will you be known, by your works will you be judged.

Proverbs 13-3 Whoever guards his mouth preserves his life; he who opens wide his lips comes to ruin.
Freedom of speech means freedom to cause offence. If you don't like it maybe try North Korea?
It is inevitable that with freedom of speech someone is likely to be offended, even when there is no such intent.
It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused. Is there any need to do so other than an exaggeration of your own resentments for I cannot see that it serves any other purpose than to offend. You don't do HH but make your point clear enough.

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Steve K
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Cymru
Feb 1 2017, 11:05 PM
Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 07:20 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/760902/Donald-Trump-Muslim-ban-Britain-protest-petition-American-President

Surprising lot of support for it in the UK too. Surprising because I had thought all the protest noise was representative.
Apparently, it isn't.
Indeed.

The protests remind me of that petition the Remoaners started after the Brexit referendum. Much was made of the "millions" who signed it, but it turned out it wasn't millions at all as many of the signatures were the same people signing multiple times as well as signatures by fake persons from Vatican City and North Korea.
Urban Myth ^

It was 4,150,260 signatures after they removed the fake ones and in that valid total were 3,983,820 UK ones which my maths says is multiple millions. Awkward eh?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215.json

So yes some votes were excluded but it's a far bigger untruth to say "it turned out it wasn't millions at all "

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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 11:22 PM

It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused. Is there any need to do so other than an exaggeration of your own resentments for I cannot see that it serves any other purpose than to offend. You don't do HH but make your point clear enough.



Nonsense, or should I say your opinion is bunk?

You also have a right to offend, you should know this.

Malicious slander is libellous, personal opinions are classed as fair comment, as long as they are not presented as fact. "Manners" are outside the remit of the law.
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Steve K
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Tigger
Feb 1 2017, 11:33 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 11:22 PM

It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused. Is there any need to do so other than an exaggeration of your own resentments for I cannot see that it serves any other purpose than to offend. You don't do HH but make your point clear enough.



Nonsense, or should I say your opinion is bunk?

You also have a right to offend, you should know this.

Malicious slander is libellous, personal opinions are classed as fair comment, as long as they are not presented as fact. "Manners" are outside the remit of the law.
Read what Tytoalba posted "It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused."

And when it is so intended to offend it rightly runs foul of our Trolling rule. So be careful, you have no right on this forum to intentionally offend and we have a big bag of modding clubs to hit such with.

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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
Feb 1 2017, 10:20 PM
Quote:
 
Seems the poor little snowflakes can't handle a bit of criticism so want to shut down debate.


The US has a credible voting system and Trump was democratically elected
He is now acting on election promises which appear to have majority popular support.

It wouldn't be my choice (if I did have a vote)........but its difficult to see where you go from there really.
It's what the majority want.
So one can only express an opinion if the majority of people agree with it?

Sorry, that's not how freedom of speech works. If you don't agree with what I say, then why not explain to me why I'm wrong, what the flaws are in my argument and present facts to back up your case.

Saying "well the majority disagree" isn't really an argument. Labour won three general elections in a row, they've been criticised plenty on these boards and I don't recall hearing you complain about it or challenge the complainers.

Once upon a time the vast majority of people thought the earth was flat were the minority who disagreed wrong to speak out in your opinion?
Edited by Happy Hornet, Feb 2 2017, 06:22 AM.
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Happy Hornet
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Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 11:22 PM
Happy Hornet
Feb 1 2017, 07:07 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 04:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Freedom of speech means freedom to cause offence. If you don't like it maybe try North Korea?
It is inevitable that with freedom of speech someone is likely to be offended, even when there is no such intent.
It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused. Is there any need to do so other than an exaggeration of your own resentments for I cannot see that it serves any other purpose than to offend. You don't do HH but make your point clear enough.

There are great many things you have said on these boards that I have found offensive to me personally and to my family.

Nevertheless I would fight tooth and nail for your right to say them.

Once again however I appear to be in the minority, in my experience freedom of speech is something everyone says they believe in but very few people really do.
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 01:13 PM
papasmurf
Feb 1 2017, 11:25 AM
C-too
Feb 1 2017, 11:14 AM
I think it goes somewhat deeper than that.
Quite, the offensive comments Trump has come out with, would not make him welcome anyway.
Again it has to be said 'TO SOME'
Being a pragmatist at heart, a natural appeaser and compromiser for our best interests, a state visit from him with all its pageantry would be beneficial to our tourist industry, and anything that is to the benefit of our county and balance of payments is welcome.
Those that see it otherwise can just go and shoot themselves in the foot and hobble around shouting invectives at him and the USA o feel good bout themselves.
---"TO SOME"---

You are right, there are some morons who don't think so. If you have a daughter how would you feel if Trump, uninvited, had stuck his hand between her legs and then boasted that he could do this sort of thing because you can get away with it when you're very rich ?

You seem to think you can make excuses for anything, just because you can put words together. .... :facepalm:

Edited by C-too, Feb 2 2017, 07:59 AM.
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xosg
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Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:38 PM
Tigger
Feb 1 2017, 11:33 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 11:22 PM

It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused. Is there any need to do so other than an exaggeration of your own resentments for I cannot see that it serves any other purpose than to offend. You don't do HH but make your point clear enough.



Nonsense, or should I say your opinion is bunk?

You also have a right to offend, you should know this.

Malicious slander is libellous, personal opinions are classed as fair comment, as long as they are not presented as fact. "Manners" are outside the remit of the law.
Read what Tytoalba posted "It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused."

And when it is so intended to offend it rightly runs foul of our Trolling rule. So be careful, you have no right on this forum to intentionally offend and we have a big bag of modding clubs to hit such with.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: You tell him kiddo

Be warned Tigger,You are on licence !clp! !clp!
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Rich
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xosg
Feb 2 2017, 08:22 PM
Steve K
Feb 1 2017, 11:38 PM
Tigger
Feb 1 2017, 11:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Read what Tytoalba posted "It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused."

And when it is so intended to offend it rightly runs foul of our Trolling rule. So be careful, you have no right on this forum to intentionally offend and we have a big bag of modding clubs to hit such with.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: You tell him kiddo

Be warned Tigger,You are on licence !clp! !clp!
How many times is that?
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Steve K
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That's for the staff and Tigger to know and you to guess - usually wrongly
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Rich
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Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 10:41 PM
That's for the staff and Tigger to know and you to guess - usually wrongly
I am more than willing for you to post my moderations on an open forum.
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Steve K
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Rich
Feb 2 2017, 10:45 PM
Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 10:41 PM
That's for the staff and Tigger to know and you to guess - usually wrongly
I am more than willing for you to post my moderations on an open forum.
Would it fit the screen width? ;-)
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Rich
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Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 11:01 PM
Rich
Feb 2 2017, 10:45 PM
Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 10:41 PM
That's for the staff and Tigger to know and you to guess - usually wrongly
I am more than willing for you to post my moderations on an open forum.
Would it fit the screen width? ;-)
I do not recall me having any holidays from here, but as for screen width.....well, you normally "fix it" ;-)
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Steve K
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Rich
Feb 2 2017, 11:11 PM
Steve K
Feb 2 2017, 11:01 PM
Rich
Feb 2 2017, 10:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Would it fit the screen width? ;-)
I do not recall me having any holidays from here, but as for screen width.....well, you normally "fix it" ;-)
No I have no recall of such Rich but who knows what went on in days gone by (and I ain't looking)?
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Gnikkk
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He got voted in on a promise to do some things, this included. He does it and the anti-democratic so called 'democrats' and other lovies don't like it, tough they lost the election according to the rules under which they agreed to participate. Now I see a comparison of 1.7 million (ban) with 300K (allow), farcical. Time frame far different and also the vociferous nature of left wing bigots takes some beating, nothing better to do once signed on maybe.

At university we went to lectures and then the bar, they the students union meeting to shout at people.
Edited by Gnikkk, Feb 3 2017, 07:43 AM.
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C-too
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Gnikkk
Feb 3 2017, 07:41 AM
He got voted in on a promise to do some things, this included. He does it and the anti-democratic so called 'democrats' and other lovies don't like it, tough they lost the election according to the rules under which they agreed to participate. Now I see a comparison of 1.7 million (ban) with 300K (allow), farcical. Time frame far different and also the vociferous nature of left wing bigots takes some beating, nothing better to do once signed on maybe.

At university we went to lectures and then the bar, they the students union meeting to shout at people.
Are the attacks on Trump in the modern history of elected presidents unique ? If so, perhaps those who are so ready to defend him are missing something. :rubchin:
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Happy Hornet
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Gnikkk
Feb 3 2017, 07:41 AM
He got voted in on a promise to do some things, this included. He does it and the anti-democratic so called 'democrats' and other lovies don't like it, tough they lost the election according to the rules under which they agreed to participate. Now I see a comparison of 1.7 million (ban) with 300K (allow), farcical. Time frame far different and also the vociferous nature of left wing bigots takes some beating, nothing better to do once signed on maybe.

At university we went to lectures and then the bar, they the students union meeting to shout at people.
So you have never once criticised a democratically elected government? I find that hard to believe.

Dissent is a crucial to the survival of democracy.
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Gnikkk
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This is not democratic dissent this is trying to usurp the democratic process. Over the last few weeks/months we have seen endless numbers of attempts to change what the people decided (UK/US), when NuLabour got in I did not even complain I got on with it (did not act like a belligerent peri-pubescent child), yet they were disastrous for the country and here we are trying to address the chronic legacy they created (unfortunately that's what we had in retrospect signed up for). Ditto Trump, the US people voted him in and so his plans are being rightly implemented (how many false promises do we usually see?). By bleating how nasty others are and elevating oneself to a higher place will not get one a place in heaven.
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C-too
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Gnikkk
Feb 3 2017, 09:54 AM
This is not democratic dissent this is trying to usurp the democratic process. Over the last few weeks/months we have seen endless numbers of attempts to change what the people decided (UK/US), when NuLabour got in I did not even complain I got on with it (did not act like a belligerent peri-pubescent child), yet they were disastrous for the country and here we are trying to address the chronic legacy they created (unfortunately that's what we had in retrospect signed up for). Ditto Trump, the US people voted him in and so his plans are being rightly implemented (how many false promises do we usually see?). By bleating how nasty others are and elevating oneself to a higher place will not get one a place in heaven.
An unbelievable post. Perhaps you are just too young to be able to see the full picture. My guess, based upon your post, is that you are possibly in your mid-twenties.

I would have thought NL were a godsend after 18 years of Conservative maladministration.

Edited by C-too, Feb 3 2017, 10:07 AM.
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Gnikkk
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A rather insulting and immature post. care to explain?
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Happy Hornet
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Gnikkk
Feb 3 2017, 09:54 AM
This is not democratic dissent this is trying to usurp the democratic process. Over the last few weeks/months we have seen endless numbers of attempts to change what the people decided (UK/US), when NuLabour got in I did not even complain I got on with it (did not act like a belligerent peri-pubescent child), yet they were disastrous for the country and here we are trying to address the chronic legacy they created (unfortunately that's what we had in retrospect signed up for). Ditto Trump, the US people voted him in and so his plans are being rightly implemented (how many false promises do we usually see?). By bleating how nasty others are and elevating oneself to a higher place will not get one a place in heaven.
Freedom of speech among other things includes the right to denounce democracy.

Also, one can accept the Democratic result whilst still expressing one's displeasure with the result. Take Trump for example, how are the opposition supposed to partake in the Democratic process and persuade people to vote for them in the mid terms and next presidential election without criticising the incumbent president?
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Tytoalba
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C-too
Feb 2 2017, 07:57 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 01:13 PM
papasmurf
Feb 1 2017, 11:25 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Again it has to be said 'TO SOME'
Being a pragmatist at heart, a natural appeaser and compromiser for our best interests, a state visit from him with all its pageantry would be beneficial to our tourist industry, and anything that is to the benefit of our county and balance of payments is welcome.
Those that see it otherwise can just go and shoot themselves in the foot and hobble around shouting invectives at him and the USA o feel good bout themselves.
---"TO SOME"---

You are right, there are some morons who don't think so. If you have a daughter how would you feel if Trump, uninvited, had stuck his hand between her legs and then boasted that he could do this sort of thing because you can get away with it when you're very rich ?

You seem to think you can make excuses for anything, just because you can put words together. .... :facepalm:

Wealth has nothing to do with it, for the poor can do much the same, but perhaps power does, but your hyperbole is exaggerated and the word rich opportunist. As for morons why not just substitute it for some people. for sexual abusers are not necessarily stupid people, they come from all walks of life and levels of intelligence.
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Gnikkk
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He has a mandate to do what he has done, the people told him to. I wish we had such choices in this country, unfortunately those who shout, shout loudest and longest and are not frightened to call names and if they could have one locked up, and as we see with FARAGE THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO SHUT YOU UP - LOSE JOB ETC ETC ETC. I would like the same exclusions in the UK, as would an awful lot of silenced people. You should hear it out there, mix with a few others and see people say 'what's wrong with that'?
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Happy Hornet
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Gnikkk
Feb 3 2017, 10:41 AM
He has a mandate to do what he has done, the people told him to. I wish we had such choices in this country, unfortunately those who shout, shout loudest and longest and are not frightened to call names and if they could have one locked up, and as we see with FARAGE THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO SHUT YOU UP - LOSE JOB ETC ETC ETC. I would like the same exclusions in the UK, as would an awful lot of silenced people. You should hear it out there, mix with a few others and see people say 'what's wrong with that'?
You seem very confused. One the hand you complain about people being silenced, on the other you complain about people expressing their viewpoint.

People campaigned for years for an EU referendum when the democratically elected government were in favour of remaining in the EU. Were they wrong to do so?
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Gnikkk
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What a convoluted argument.
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Gnikkk
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You may have time to argue the toss about why people think as they do, and to call names etc etc but I do not, nor do I have the inclination to get into a slanging match.
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Tytoalba
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Happy Hornet
Feb 2 2017, 06:21 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 11:22 PM
Happy Hornet
Feb 1 2017, 07:07 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It is inevitable that with freedom of speech someone is likely to be offended, even when there is no such intent.
It is when it is gratuitously intended that the freedom is being abused. Is there any need to do so other than an exaggeration of your own resentments for I cannot see that it serves any other purpose than to offend. You don't do HH but make your point clear enough.

There are great many things you have said on these boards that I have found offensive to me personally and to my family.

Nevertheless I would fight tooth and nail for your right to say them.

Once again however I appear to be in the minority, in my experience freedom of speech is something everyone says they believe in but very few people really do.
HH
I think there is a difference between the intent to offend, and taking offence at what someone may say I understand your sensitivity about your own circumstances, but it does not alter my belief that a multicultural multi religious society does not live in peace with itself, for there have been too many instances around the world where the differences have created internal problems, one of the worst instances was the religious differences when India was portioned. I don't think I should withhold my opinion on a matter that may be sensitive to another poster or withhold it because they as an individual may take offence where none was intended. I have said that sometimes free speech can lead to some one or some group being offended, but I think some things need to be said before he situation that may be referred to gets out of hand. By facing a potential problems we can then address it, not sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doe not exist. Brexit was a consequence of ignoring tee problem of immigration and claiming it was racist to discuss it .
If I start to feel offended at what someone writes, when it is intended or otherwise I ask myself why , and then move on or ignore it for I don't see it as my problem. We are, after all just screen names with a personality.
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Happy Hornet
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Tytoalba
Feb 3 2017, 11:02 AM
Happy Hornet
Feb 2 2017, 06:21 AM
Tytoalba
Feb 1 2017, 11:22 PM

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There are great many things you have said on these boards that I have found offensive to me personally and to my family.

Nevertheless I would fight tooth and nail for your right to say them.

Once again however I appear to be in the minority, in my experience freedom of speech is something everyone says they believe in but very few people really do.
HH
I think there is a difference between the intent to offend, and taking offence at what someone may say I understand your sensitivity about your own circumstances, but it does not alter my belief that a multicultural multi religious society does not live in peace with itself, for there have been too many instances around the world where the differences have created internal problems, one of the worst instances was the religious differences when India was portioned. I don't think I should withhold my opinion on a matter that may be sensitive to another poster or withhold it because they as an individual may take offence where none was intended. I have said that sometimes free speech can lead to some one or some group being offended, but I think some things need to be said before he situation that may be referred to gets out of hand. By facing a potential problems we can then address it, not sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doe not exist. Brexit was a consequence of ignoring tee problem of immigration and claiming it was racist to discuss it .
If I start to feel offended at what someone writes, when it is intended or otherwise I ask myself why , and then move on or ignore it for I don't see it as my problem. We are, after all just screen names with a personality.
And this is pretty much what i and a number of others are saying wrt Trump.

I might not like or agree with a lot of what you say, but I respect and defend your right to say it.

All I am asking is that you extend me the same courtesy.

Unreasonable?
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