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D Trump; + merges
Topic Started: Jan 7 2017, 07:31 AM (1,583 Views)
C-too
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Donald trump agrees that there was Russian interference in the election, but he says it did not influence the outcome of the election.

No influence on the outcome because he says so !jk! IMO he has exposed his Mr Smart Mouth immaturity.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:03 PM
It is totally irrelevant to the argument.People are jailed/punished for not paying.That is the whole point I am making,I can't see where your argument is coming from :banghead:
Nope wrong again! Most got off without paying and eventually it became unworkable, of course they could have imprisoned a huge number of people for non payment but the demo's/riots would have got bigger and more unruly.

Again rule is by consent, check out the so called Velvet Revolution in what was Czechoslovakia so you can understand these things a bit better.

And getting back on topic it looks like a lot of people are taking away their consent to be ordered around by Trump, again in a freeish society you need the consent of the people.
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Tigger
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:05 PM
Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 12:52 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 12:39 PM
Your still smarting over your own families colonial past. Your still shackled by it and need to get over it.
I have no colonial past in my family and I'm probably more English than you by blood, before you imply otherwise.

I like the truth, not some Barbera Cartlandesque rose tinted view of history............
There you go again PRESUMING :facepalm:
All fact, not imaginings or personal experiences presented as an alternative version to the history books and newsreels of the day.

FACTS!
Edited by Tigger, Feb 7 2017, 01:15 PM.
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xosg
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Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 01:11 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:03 PM
It is totally irrelevant to the argument.People are jailed/punished for not paying.That is the whole point I am making,I can't see where your argument is coming from :banghead:
Nope wrong again! Most got off without paying and eventually it became unworkable, of course they could have imprisoned a huge number of people for non payment but the demo's/riots would have got bigger and more unruly.

Again rule is by consent, check out the so called Velvet Revolution in what was Czechoslovakia so you can understand these things a bit better.

And getting back on topic it looks like a lot of people are taking away their consent to be ordered around by Trump, again in a freeish society you need the consent of the people.
What compels you to pay your TV license ?

The threat of a fine or imprisonment is the answer. Once again,the threat of the use of FORCE,get it.

What stops you from doing the things you would like to do to somebody,something that offends you ?

The GOVERNMENT and the THREAT of reprisal (LAW) is what stops you.
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papasmurf
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:19 PM


What stops you from doing the things you would like to do to somebody,something that offends you ?

Means and opportunity.
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xosg
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Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 01:14 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:05 PM
Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 12:52 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeptruth, not some Barbera Cartlandesque rose tinted view of history............
There you go again PRESUMING :facepalm:
All fact, not imaginings or personal experiences presented as an alternative version to the history books and newsreels of the day.

FACTS!
I would say a FACT is indisputable given what we know at the time of that FACT as in Science.

However in your case FACT has become PRESUMPTION in your genetics over TY. Something to which,unless you know him personally,then you aint got a clue about. HAVE YOU ? :banghead: :facepalm:
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xosg
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papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:20 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:19 PM


What stops you from doing the things you would like to do to somebody,something that offends you ?

Means and opportunity.
Not another one for gods sake. The threat of FORCE and PUNISHMENT is what stops you.
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papasmurf
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:23 PM
Not another one for gods sake. The threat of FORCE and PUNISHMENT is what stops you.
Not with my short life expectancy.
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xosg
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papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:25 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:23 PM
Not another one for gods sake. The threat of FORCE and PUNISHMENT is what stops you.
Not with my short life expectancy.
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
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Tigger
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:21 PM
Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 01:14 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:05 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeptruth
All fact, not imaginings or personal experiences presented as an alternative version to the history books and newsreels of the day.

FACTS!
I would say a FACT is indisputable given what we know at the time of that FACT as in Science.

However in your case FACT has become PRESUMPTION in your genetics over TY. Something to which,unless you know him personally,then you aint got a clue about. HAVE YOU ? :banghead: :facepalm:
:facepalm:

You've lost the plot, I was pulling him up on his clearly incorrect and highly personalised witterings about India under British rule.

A woman who was the PA to Joeseph Goebells recently died, she was 106 years old, according to her her former boss and his supriors always treated her with kindness and respect, I'll not remind you of what was going on outside this bubble.........
Edited by Tigger, Feb 7 2017, 01:34 PM.
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Tigger
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:23 PM
]Not another one for gods sake. The threat of FORCE and PUNISHMENT is what stops you.
;D

How revealing!
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papasmurf
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:28 PM
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
No plans involved:-

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krugerman
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A Labour government would never have introduced The Poll Tax

A Liberal Democrat government would never have introduced it

An SNP government would never have introduced it

Neither would a Plaid government, a Green government, SDLP, DUP or any other party have introduced The Poll Tax.

Only the Tories would think it reasonable and fair that for man in a castle surrounded by hundreds of acres of land to pay the same local tax as a pensioner in a council flat.

I am very proud of the fact that I was involved in the campaign against the Poll Tax, I helped in my own small way to bring about its demise, and I helped to bring Thatcher down too.
It goes to show, and it proves that even an elected government, if it goes too far, if it brings in a law which is so unjust, so unfair, will cause a reaction from The People.

No matter how democratically or fairly Donald Trump was elected president of the United States, we still oppose him, and all he stands for, and it seems to me that this so called "State Visit" has now become so farcical, and will end up been so controversial and divisive, that it would be in everyones interests to abandon it all together.



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xosg
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krugerman
Feb 7 2017, 01:48 PM
A Labour government would never have introduced The Poll Tax

A Liberal Democrat government would never have introduced it

An SNP government would never have introduced it

Neither would a Plaid government, a Green government, SDLP, DUP or any other party have introduced The Poll Tax.

Only the Tories would think it reasonable and fair that for man in a castle surrounded by hundreds of acres of land to pay the same local tax as a pensioner in a council flat.

I am very proud of the fact that I was involved in the campaign against the Poll Tax, I helped in my own small way to bring about its demise, and I helped to bring Thatcher down too.
It goes to show, and it proves that even an elected government, if it goes too far, if it brings in a law which is so unjust, so unfair, will cause a reaction from The People.

No matter how democratically or fairly Donald Trump was elected president of the United States, we still oppose him, and all he stands for, and it seems to me that this so called "State Visit" has now become so farcical, and will end up been so controversial and divisive, that it would be in everyones interests to abandon it all together.



Iam ot defending the Poll Tax.In fact I agree with you.

One small point.Take heed from your own words: BREXIT springs to mind

"It goes to show, and it proves that even an elected government, if it goes too far, if it brings in a law which is so unjust, so unfair, will cause a reaction from The People."
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xosg
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papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:35 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:28 PM
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
No plans involved:-

Posted Image
You got more badges than a US private
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marybrown
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Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 12:52 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 12:39 PM
Your still smarting over your own families colonial past. Your still shackled by it and need to get over it.
I have no colonial past in my family and I'm probably more English than you by blood, before you imply otherwise.

I like the truth, not some Barbera Cartlandesque rose tinted view of history............
So you are not related to Zulu's or Poles then?

Do I sense a little England sense of belonging here??

You are so busted!! !jk!

Edited by marybrown, Feb 7 2017, 02:07 PM.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:23 PM
papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:20 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:19 PM


What stops you from doing the things you would like to do to somebody,something that offends you ?

Means and opportunity.
Not another one for gods sake. The threat of FORCE and PUNISHMENT is what stops you.
surely both sides of this are part right

Ultimately it's what the law enforces that rules and in most aspects that is ultimately subject to convictions by juries of our peers so there is a check and balance. There are well recorded cases that no matter what the law was, juries refused to convict because it seems they disagreed with the letter of the law.
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xosg
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marybrown
Feb 7 2017, 02:05 PM
Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 12:52 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 12:39 PM
Your still smarting over your own families colonial past. Your still shackled by it and need to get over it.
I have no colonial past in my family and I'm probably more English than you by blood, before you imply otherwise.

I like the truth, not some Barbera Cartlandesque rose tinted view of history............
So you are not related to Zulu's or Poles then?

Do I sense a little England sense of belonging here??

You are so busted!! !jk!

:thumbsup: Great point.

Someone who is always calling others "Little Englanders" got him !jk! !jk!
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papasmurf
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 02:02 PM
You got more badges than a US private
Only about a quarter of them are visible in that picture.
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xosg
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Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 02:07 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:23 PM
papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not another one for gods sake. The threat of FORCE and PUNISHMENT is what stops you.
surely both sides of this are part right

Ultimately it's what the law enforces that rules and in most aspects that is ultimately subject to convictions by juries of our peers so there is a check and balance. There are well recorded cases that no matter what the law was, juries refused to convict because it seems they disagreed with the letter of the law.
That is not up for debate.It is irrelevant what a juries outcome is,you are where you are,because the government deemed fit to punish you. If you have to seek redress from a jury,then that is the law of the land being enforced, for you to stand in front of that jury. The outcome merely states that the law has took it's course
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marybrown
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xosg
Feb 7 2017, 02:10 PM
marybrown
Feb 7 2017, 02:05 PM
Tigger
Feb 7 2017, 12:52 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeptruth, not some Barbera Cartlandesque rose tinted view of history............
So you are not related to Zulu's or Poles then?

Do I sense a little England sense of belonging here??

You are so busted!! !jk!

:thumbsup: Great point.

Someone who is always calling others "Little Englanders" got him !jk! !jk!
Well apparently he is not a racist..''I have no colonial past past in my family'' (which means no coffee coloured uncles) ;D

And I'm probably more English than you by blood..before you imply otherwise..
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xosg
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marybrown
Feb 7 2017, 02:29 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 02:10 PM
marybrown
Feb 7 2017, 02:05 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeptruth
:thumbsup: Great point.

Someone who is always calling others "Little Englanders" got him !jk! !jk!
Well apparently he is not a racist..''I have no colonial past past in my family'' (which means no coffee coloured uncles) ;D

And I'm probably more English than you by blood..before you imply otherwise..
I think he has been shamed away,well done :P
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Ewill
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Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 02:07 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:23 PM
papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not another one for gods sake. The threat of FORCE and PUNISHMENT is what stops you.
surely both sides of this are part right

Ultimately it's what the law enforces that rules and in most aspects that is ultimately subject to convictions by juries of our peers so there is a check and balance. There are well recorded cases that no matter what the law was, juries refused to convict because it seems they disagreed with the letter of the law.
A well known perverse verdict involved the Official Secrets Act signatory Clive Ponting who leaked General Belgrano details to the press

He was guilty as charged in law , no reasonable doubt whatsoever yet the jury did not convict as they though his crime was in the public interest

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Tytoalba
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Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 12:44 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 12:33 PM
Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 12:04 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38884604"to ban everyone who disagrees"

But most intelligent people would think that we shouldn't give lying, bigoted, misogynistic, arrogant would be despots the highest respect.
Your not respecting the man, your respecting the office he holds. Ban the man and you disrespect the office and all those that voted for him. Why make enemies when a friend in need is a friend indeed,
Who said "ban the man"?

Not I, not sure anyone did
The proposal has been made that he should be 'banned' from addressing the HOC. We cant have him 'banned' because it is too similar to his policies of banning people from certain states, or certain religious backgrounds and we don't want to appear hypocritical do we?
Perhaps we should only ban right wing polices, and people like Trump, for the left seem to want to ban everything else they disagree with. Their own free speech is sacred , everyone else's is anathema to them
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marybrown
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Ewill
Feb 7 2017, 03:19 PM
Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 02:07 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
surely both sides of this are part right

Ultimately it's what the law enforces that rules and in most aspects that is ultimately subject to convictions by juries of our peers so there is a check and balance. There are well recorded cases that no matter what the law was, juries refused to convict because it seems they disagreed with the letter of the law.
A well known perverse verdict involved the Official Secrets Act signatory Clive Ponting who leaked General Belgrano details to the press

He was guilty as charged in law , no reasonable doubt whatsoever yet the jury did not convict as they though his crime was in the public interest

''What are the charges? Trumped up M'lord''
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Tytoalba
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Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 01:01 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 12:39 PM
Your still smarting over your own families colonial past. Your still shackled by it and need to get over it.
Says the poster who affects to detest personal insults

 nonono:


Where do I insult him by referring to a colonial past when I have a colonial past as well? He raised the issue of my upbringing in India did he not, and initially got a reasonable response in return?

I suggest Steve, that when you defend him you look to his past remarks. If he leaves my posts alone and stops trying to needle me as he does, I will leave him alone.
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marybrown
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Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 03:52 PM
Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 01:01 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 12:39 PM
Your still smarting over your own families colonial past. Your still shackled by it and need to get over it.
Says the poster who affects to detest personal insults

 nonono:


Where do I insult him by referring to a colonial past when I have a colonial past as well? He raised the issue of my upbringing in India did he not, and initially got a reasonable response in return?

I suggest Steve, that when you defend him you look to his past remarks. If he leaves my posts alone and stops trying to needle me as he does, I will leave him alone.
He also brought up the death of my niece in Thailand..about 3 times...he's nasty!
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Affa
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papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:35 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:28 PM
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
No plans involved:-

Posted Image
Badges read "All Night Pussy Hunt", three years on the trot ........... that'll retain the will to live
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papasmurf
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Affa
Feb 7 2017, 05:13 PM
Badges read "All Night Pussy Hunt", three years on the trot ........... that'll retain the will to live
Strange names for motorcycle rallies are par for the course. They bear no relationship to the reality.
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marybrown
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Affa
Feb 7 2017, 05:13 PM
papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:35 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:28 PM
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
No plans involved:-

Posted Image
Badges read "All Night Pussy Hunt", three years on the trot ........... that'll retain the will to live
I remember the Smurfs.''where are you all coming from..we're from Dartmoor on the run''
Edited by marybrown, Feb 7 2017, 05:26 PM.
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Rich
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Curious Cdn
Feb 7 2017, 12:03 PM
Ewill
Feb 7 2017, 11:30 AM
Curious Cdn
Feb 7 2017, 11:08 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep sure that you unelected Prime Minister
One can only vote for a local constituency MP who may or may not represent a party- one has no votes outside the constituency in which you are registered

Unless one lives in the specific constituency where a putative MP who happens to be party leader is standing for election there is NO vote for a potential PM, never has been

No-one is ever ''elected'' to be PM at a general election
We have the same system as you do. How do you suppose that your PM became PM? Did the fairies airlift her in?

I never, ever said that your PM is directly chosen in a general election. If you re-read it again, you will see that the party that forms a government elects the Prime Minister.
The leader of the/a party is already in place before an election just as Corbyn is now, if Labour were to win an election tomorrow then Corbyn would be the PM....so, it is de facto by default that the pre elected leader of any party that attains Government automatically becomes the PM, if during that term of office that elected leader turns out to be a wanker of a PM then he/she can be persuaded to step aside and a new leader is chosen who then in turn gets to be the PM.

Do you get it now?
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 03:52 PM
Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 01:01 PM
Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 12:39 PM
Your still smarting over your own families colonial past. Your still shackled by it and need to get over it.
Says the poster who affects to detest personal insults

 nonono:


Where do I insult him by referring to a colonial past when I have a colonial past as well? He raised the issue of my upbringing in India did he not, and initially got a reasonable response in return?

I suggest Steve, that when you defend him you look to his past remarks. If he leaves my posts alone and stops trying to needle me as he does, I will leave him alone.
 ::) you really don't get it do you. I don't defend him (if only you knew the whole truth) but you might want to take on board that when YOU use the second person language like that you are clearly being insulting to a poster.

But the point at hand is really this: you have asked for zero tolerance on personal pejoratives yet were such to be in place you would suffer
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:35 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:28 PM
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
No plans involved:-

Posted Image
It is so tempting to make that a caption competition ;-)

 nonono: Steve, behave
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Tigger
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marybrown
Feb 7 2017, 02:05 PM
So you are not related to Zulu's or Poles then?

Do I sense a little England sense of belonging here??

You are so busted!! !jk!

Zulu's and Poles? ;D

The Birds Eye factory and the doctors surgery on a Friday afternoon? Are you projecting again Mary?

I'm probably one of those increasingly rare English people, a traditionalist in some ways, you know fairly easy going, tolerant and not always blaming outsiders for our own problems.......

You can see why the lurch to the right here and in the US is a cause of concern for us older style English folks...........
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Feb 7 2017, 03:52 PM


Where do I insult him by referring to a colonial past when I have a colonial past as well? He raised the issue of my upbringing in India did he not, and initially got a reasonable response in return?

I suggest Steve, that when you defend him you look to his past remarks. If he leaves my posts alone and stops trying to needle me as he does, I will leave him alone.
You implied I had a grudge against the British Empire, a defunct Empire you clearly have much emotional baggage still invested in. Sorry to disappoint you I'm not remotely ethnic in any way, but I do like to stick to historical facts and figures and find it amusing to say the least that some prefer sugar coated fantasy over fact...........
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Tigger
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Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 06:50 PM
papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:35 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:28 PM
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
No plans involved:-

Posted Image
It is so tempting to make that a caption competition ;-)

 nonono: Steve, behave
Jack Hargreaves long lost lovechild finally surfaces?
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Affa
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papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 05:19 PM
Affa
Feb 7 2017, 05:13 PM
Badges read "All Night Pussy Hunt", three years on the trot ........... that'll retain the will to live
Strange names for motorcycle rallies are par for the course. They bear no relationship to the reality.

My Bro is a biker.
He has seven. His wife also rides a 600cc Yam.

He has a Triumph Trident (like new), and a newer Trophy.
A couple of antiques - BSA B25 (his first bike), a velocette water cooled ex bobby's bike he picked (cheap) from a guy who wanted him to restore it..,, and some Jap spots bikes Suzuki 900 I think one is.
Does IoM most years.
Posted Image
Edited by Affa, Feb 7 2017, 08:55 PM.
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Curious Cdn
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Steve K
Feb 7 2017, 06:50 PM
papasmurf
Feb 7 2017, 01:35 PM
xosg
Feb 7 2017, 01:28 PM
LOL fair point.Why, are you planning to leave us soon ?
No plans involved:-

Posted Image
It is so tempting to make that a caption competition ;-)

 nonono: Steve, behave
I work with a guy who looks exactly like that. The whole company calls him "Old Man", even though he's only a couple of years older than I am. The difference is that I own a razor, know where the barber shop is and don't own either a shooting vest, nor a hand grenade belt buckle (want one, tho)
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Affa
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Rich
Feb 7 2017, 06:09 PM

The leader of the/a party is already in place before an election just as Corbyn is now, if Labour were to win an election tomorrow then Corbyn would be the PM....so, it is de facto by default that the pre elected leader of any party that attains Government automatically becomes the PM, if during that term of office that elected leader turns out to be a wanker of a PM then he/she can be persuaded to step aside and a new leader is chosen who then in turn gets to be the PM.

Do you get it now?

Has it ever happened?
Has a serving Prime Minister been removed from office and replaced from within the party of government?

Sitting MPs do not abandon their seats - they use the majority the electorate gave them to rest comfortably and follow their leader down every dark cul-de-sac.
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papasmurf
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Curious Cdn
Feb 8 2017, 11:58 AM
I work with a guy who looks exactly like that. The whole company calls him "Old Man", even though he's only a couple of years older than I am. The difference is that I own a razor, know where the barber shop is and don't own either a shooting vest, nor a hand grenade belt buckle (want one, tho)
Well I am 68 years old, I don't shave for personal reasons. It is not a shooting vest. The Hand Grenade belt buckle is widely available on the internet in many variations. (I only paid £5 for mine at a motorcycle rally.)
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Steve K
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And back on topic the latest tantrum from the child in the world's most powerful job

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