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D Trump; + merges
Topic Started: Jan 7 2017, 07:31 AM (1,613 Views)
C-too
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Donald trump agrees that there was Russian interference in the election, but he says it did not influence the outcome of the election.

No influence on the outcome because he says so !jk! IMO he has exposed his Mr Smart Mouth immaturity.
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 12:48 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 12:44 PM
C-too
Jan 12 2017, 12:38 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxvR7ZUjaJk
Why do you use your negative opinions of others as argument? Would you like me to reciprocate in similar terms?
But the fact is your posts above are consistently of the theme that Trump should not be subject to scrutiny or challenge

Well tough luck he is certainly going to get both
Challenge away, express your opinions like I do mine, for there is no means of preventing you from doing so.
That remark is pointless, just as your challenges are. It is the pointlessness of the challenges I refer to, and the delusions that it can have any effect. Only the American people can change things if they are able to, within their own democratic system, and there is no likelihood of that. IMO
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Tytoalba
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The Buccaneer
Jan 9 2017, 01:56 PM
Steve K
Jan 9 2017, 10:47 AM
The Buccaneer
Jan 9 2017, 09:56 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why doesn't Trump grow up and stop acting like a schoolyard smart mouthing fool ?
Beware of what right-wingers bring to the table
So are you saying we don't live on a planet where the USA is not only the dominant military power but has hardly been shy about using that power beyond its borders?

And are you saying we aren't in a military pact where we are obliged to go to war if the USA is attacked by forces Trump may provoke?

And are you saying we have no threat from fundamentalist Islamic terrorism that has often claimed our alignment with the USA to justify mass murder?

And are you saying we don't have USA armed forces o bases in the UK that would be targeted should the USA go to serious war?

And are you saying we aren't dependent on imported fuels whose pricing and supply aren't dominated by the US economy?

And are you saying we shouldn't have any empathy for USA and wider North American citizens whose lives might be wrecked by Trump's policies?

Easy yes/no questions so please answer

None of these are relevant to the opinions being expressed about Trump. The point here is that until he gets to be president and makes decisions, it'll only be if/when any of them affect the UK negatively, that we need to be concerned about, or is that too difficult to comprehend ?
Not for me. I think you are right.
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Affa
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:00 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 12:43 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 12:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

That's because you are tribalist!
Nothing you have added alters that observation.
All of us could learn more if we were able to see ourselves as others see us. I offer you that insight, in hope (not expectation) that you learn from it.
My remarks were general, yours are personal.
Here is another saying.Do not underestimate those you see as your enemies, like the Remainers and Cameron did in our referendum. or made forecasts about the USA elections.

My comment was made in respect of what you told. You stated a personal opinion, and I addressed that opinion - and gave an explanation for it.
The rest was me saying why I think you could learn from taking note of what I, others, see as the greater influence directing your political position.

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Tytoalba
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Happy Hornet
Jan 12 2017, 12:43 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 12:16 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 12:00 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The more the idealistic liberal left oppose Trump the more I shall support him. If they don't like him then the more he must be needed.
They were the reason we have Brexit and the rise of the right wing across Europe They just cannot understand that their brand of stifling dictatorial controlling extremism is not wanted. If he goes too far in what he does they are the ones that led to his election.
Will they believe it? Of course not , for they think themselves to be always right, and anything else contrary to their own beliefs is anathema to them.
That strikes me as a very dangerous philosophy. The enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.

Trump is a case in point, he supposedly stands up for the little guy against the tyranny of an out of touch political elite, then fills his cabinet with billionaires.

It's beyond parody.
The Billionaires are successful people and are hardly likely to be open to bribes. If he wants the best, and sees them as the best then their wealth or lack of it is irrelevant, especially if they can share their wealth and expertise with the nation.
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Steve K
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:12 PM
Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 12:48 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 12:44 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxvR7ZUjaJk
But the fact is your posts above are consistently of the theme that Trump should not be subject to scrutiny or challenge

Well tough luck he is certainly going to get both
Challenge away, express your opinions like I do mine, for there is no means of preventing you from doing so.
That remark is pointless, just as your challenges are. It is the pointlessness of the challenges I refer to, and the delusions that it can have any effect. Only the American people can change things if they are able to, within their own democratic system, and there is no likelihood of that. IMO
as Tesco say "every little helps"

And Trump's durability will in part depend on the willingness of the likes of May and Boris to cuddle up to him and his team. So pointing out to Brits that they seek to cuddle up to the more dodgy of those in the the dodgy sector of politics is not just fair but necessary
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Tytoalba
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Affa
Jan 12 2017, 01:21 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:00 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 12:43 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
My remarks were general, yours are personal.
Here is another saying.Do not underestimate those you see as your enemies, like the Remainers and Cameron did in our referendum. or made forecasts about the USA elections.

My comment was made in respect of what you told. You stated a personal opinion, and I addressed that opinion - and gave an explanation for it.
The rest was me saying why I think you could learn from taking note of what I, others, see as the greater influence directing your political position.

If being for my own people before others makes me a tribalism, then you could be right. Tribalism seems to be a common state with human beings, something the liberal left idealists are trying to change. How unnatural of them,
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:34 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 01:21 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:00 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

My comment was made in respect of what you told. You stated a personal opinion, and I addressed that opinion - and gave an explanation for it.
The rest was me saying why I think you could learn from taking note of what I, others, see as the greater influence directing your political position.
If being for my own people before others makes me a tribalism, then you could be right. Tribalism seems to be a common state with human beings, something the liberal left idealists are trying to change. How unnatural of them,
There is a natural element of tribalism in humans, I believe it's based upon the desire for personal safety which might account for people tying themselves to different political ideologies.

The problem is that while personal safety covers a wide range of possibilities, political ideologies can be addressed with objectivity and logic and can be rationalised. The further the extremism of the ideology the less inclined are its followers to apply logic and objectivity.
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Affa
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:34 PM
If being for my own people before others makes me a tribalism, then you could be right.

What you say requires that you identify who your "own people" are?

Am I to assume you mean 'the independently wealthy'?
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Happy Hornet
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:28 PM
Happy Hornet
Jan 12 2017, 12:43 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 12:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That strikes me as a very dangerous philosophy. The enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.

Trump is a case in point, he supposedly stands up for the little guy against the tyranny of an out of touch political elite, then fills his cabinet with billionaires.

It's beyond parody.
The Billionaires are successful people and are hardly likely to be open to bribes. If he wants the best, and sees them as the best then their wealth or lack of it is irrelevant, especially if they can share their wealth and expertise with the nation.
Not likely to be able to relate to mr and mrs joe public very well though are they?
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Affa
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Happy Hornet
Jan 12 2017, 04:30 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:28 PM
Happy Hornet
Jan 12 2017, 12:43 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The Billionaires are successful people and are hardly likely to be open to bribes. If he wants the best, and sees them as the best then their wealth or lack of it is irrelevant, especially if they can share their wealth and expertise with the nation.
Not likely to be able to relate to mr and mrs joe public very well though are they?

I also find the idea that 'Billionaires' (like Trump) are not likely to be persuaded to act in a manner/fashion that is influenced by material gain, hilarious.
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Tytoalba
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C-too
Jan 12 2017, 02:19 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:34 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 01:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If being for my own people before others makes me a tribalism, then you could be right. Tribalism seems to be a common state with human beings, something the liberal left idealists are trying to change. How unnatural of them,
There is a natural element of tribalism in humans, I believe it's based upon the desire for personal safety which might account for people tying themselves to different political ideologies.

The problem is that while personal safety covers a wide range of possibilities, political ideologies can be addressed with objectivity and logic and can be rationalised. The further the extremism of the ideology the less inclined are its followers to apply logic and objectivity.
There you go. A liberals attempt to change human nature and ten thousand years and more of human evolution. You must know, like I do, that in extremis our instincts and human nature comes to the irrational fore.

I ask the question. When was the last time you got angry and lost your temper? You may not have done in recent times, but at some time you must. Its how we are.
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Tytoalba
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Affa
Jan 12 2017, 02:29 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:34 PM
If being for my own people before others makes me a tribalism, then you could be right.

What you say requires that you identify who your "own people" are?

Am I to assume you mean 'the independently wealthy'?
No. When push comes to shove, in any circumstances, those that stand alongside me and me them.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:22 PM
C-too
Jan 12 2017, 02:19 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There is a natural element of tribalism in humans, I believe it's based upon the desire for personal safety which might account for people tying themselves to different political ideologies.

The problem is that while personal safety covers a wide range of possibilities, political ideologies can be addressed with objectivity and logic and can be rationalised. The further the extremism of the ideology the less inclined are its followers to apply logic and objectivity.
There you go. A liberals attempt to change human nature and ten thousand years and more of human evolution. You must know, like I do, that in extremis our instincts and human nature comes to the irrational fore.

I ask the question. When was the last time you got angry and lost your temper? You may not have done in recent times, but at some time you must. Its how we are.
But what we might do "in extremis" is neither to be applauded or accepted as what should be in normal circumstances. And it is that you have been trying to justify
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:22 PM
C-too
Jan 12 2017, 02:19 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There is a natural element of tribalism in humans, I believe it's based upon the desire for personal safety which might account for people tying themselves to different political ideologies.

The problem is that while personal safety covers a wide range of possibilities, political ideologies can be addressed with objectivity and logic and can be rationalised. The further the extremism of the ideology the less inclined are its followers to apply logic and objectivity.
There you go. A liberals attempt to change human nature and ten thousand years and more of human evolution. You must know, like I do, that in extremis our instincts and human nature comes to the irrational fore.

I ask the question. When was the last time you got angry and lost your temper? You may not have done in recent times, but at some time you must. Its how we are.
What has any of that got to do with applying objectivity and logic to politics ?
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Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 01:31 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:12 PM
Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 12:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxvR7ZUjaJk
Challenge away, express your opinions like I do mine, for there is no means of preventing you from doing so.
That remark is pointless, just as your challenges are. It is the pointlessness of the challenges I refer to, and the delusions that it can have any effect. Only the American people can change things if they are able to, within their own democratic system, and there is no likelihood of that. IMO
as Tesco say "every little helps"

And Trump's durability will in part depend on the willingness of the likes of May and Boris to cuddle up to him and his team. So pointing out to Brits that they seek to cuddle up to the more dodgy of those in the the dodgy sector of politics is not just fair but necessary


Trump loves Great Britain.
He will negotiate a trade agreement with Great Britain and it will be a great one.
You know why?..because he only does great trade agreements.



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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Trade agreements have to be approved by the Hill

Interesting to see his own nominees for heads of Defense and CIA already briefing off message

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38597754

Quote:
 
General James Mattis, defence secretary nominee, warned Nato was under its biggest attack since World War Two.

Mike Pompeo, Mr Trump's pick to lead the CIA, said Moscow posed a threat in Europe and was "asserting itself aggressively" in Ukraine.

:rubchin:
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Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 10:10 PM
Trade agreements have to be approved by the Hill

Interesting to see his own nominees for heads of Defense and CIA already briefing off message

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38597754

Quote:
 
General James Mattis, defence secretary nominee, warned Nato was under its biggest attack since World War Two.

Mike Pompeo, Mr Trump's pick to lead the CIA, said Moscow posed a threat in Europe and was "asserting itself aggressively" in Ukraine.

:rubchin:


Very overrated post.
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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gansao
Jan 12 2017, 10:13 PM
Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 10:10 PM
Trade agreements have to be approved by the Hill

Interesting to see his own nominees for heads of Defense and CIA already briefing off message

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38597754

Quote:
 
General James Mattis, defence secretary nominee, warned Nato was under its biggest attack since World War Two.

Mike Pompeo, Mr Trump's pick to lead the CIA, said Moscow posed a threat in Europe and was "asserting itself aggressively" in Ukraine.

:rubchin:


Very overrated post.
I get the impression that there is backtracking from the original allegations. for there is no proof of them. Perhaps the proof or otherwise will be identified in 10 days time after he has been inaugurated.
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Affa
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Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:29 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 02:29 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:34 PM
If being for my own people before others makes me a tribalism, then you could be right.

What you say requires that you identify who your "own people" are?

Am I to assume you mean 'the independently wealthy'?
No. When push comes to shove, in any circumstances, those that stand alongside me and me them.

Where does that leave those that don't stand with you?
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Rich
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Affa
Jan 12 2017, 10:55 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:29 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 02:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
No. When push comes to shove, in any circumstances, those that stand alongside me and me them.

Where does that leave those that don't stand with you?
Here is a clue, religion and politics have only ever had one singular answer to your question.....but hey, let the man take office and let us see how he does before we all condemn him, ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
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Affa
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Rich
Jan 13 2017, 12:20 AM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 10:55 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Where does that leave those that don't stand with you?
Here is a clue, religion and politics have only ever had one singular answer to your question.....but hey, let the man take office and let us see how he does before we all condemn him, ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

Rich; if you know of a post where I have derided Donald Trump, remind me of it.
The worst I have said of him is that I am no fan.
My position is that he is a placement, a man chosen by corporate business to represent corporate business in a time when corporate business is under pressure - not from the political elite but from those that elect them to office.

When there is an underswell forming that looks like they can be a genuine challenge to the status quo, the Establishment steal the thunder and produces its own brand of 'change' that neuters the threat ....... UKIP to steal BNP thunder.
Trump has stood 'for Americans'. I'll be greatly surprised if Americans stand him for very long ......... but it is what it is and so be it.

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The Buccaneer
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How about we just wait and see how he gets on ?
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C-too
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The Buccaneer
Jan 13 2017, 02:11 AM
How about we just wait and see how he gets on ?
When in office I will give him credit where credit is due, criticise him where criticism is due and question situations that I'm uncertain of.

Meanwhile, why should people ignore his arrogance, his lies and the way he denigrates just about everything and everyone ?

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RoofGardener
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Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 10:10 PM
Trade agreements have to be approved by the Hill

Interesting to see his own nominees for heads of Defense and CIA already briefing off message

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38597754

Quote:
 
General James Mattis, defence secretary nominee, warned Nato was under its biggest attack since World War Two.

Mike Pompeo, Mr Trump's pick to lead the CIA, said Moscow posed a threat in Europe and was "asserting itself aggressively" in Ukraine.

:rubchin:
It's kinda worrying that Trump's nominee for Defense Secretary doesn't seem to know that NATO didn't EXIST in Word War Two !! :rubchin:
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Curious Cdn
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RoofGardener
Jan 13 2017, 09:47 AM
Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 10:10 PM
Trade agreements have to be approved by the Hill

Interesting to see his own nominees for heads of Defense and CIA already briefing off message

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38597754

Quote:
 
General James Mattis, defence secretary nominee, warned Nato was under its biggest attack since World War Two.

Mike Pompeo, Mr Trump's pick to lead the CIA, said Moscow posed a threat in Europe and was "asserting itself aggressively" in Ukraine.

:rubchin:
It's kinda worrying that Trump's nominee for Defense Secretary doesn't seem to know that NATO didn't EXIST in Word War Two !! :rubchin:
Why would "truth" suddenly appear in the middle of this bizarre nightmare?

Wake me up when breakfast is ready.
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Steve K
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The Buccaneer
Jan 13 2017, 02:11 AM
How about we just wait and see how he gets on ?
Because it's always sensible to think ahead about consequences.
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RoofGardener
Jan 13 2017, 09:47 AM
Steve K
Jan 12 2017, 10:10 PM
Trade agreements have to be approved by the Hill

Interesting to see his own nominees for heads of Defense and CIA already briefing off message

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38597754

Quote:
 
General James Mattis, defence secretary nominee, warned Nato was under its biggest attack since World War Two.

Mike Pompeo, Mr Trump's pick to lead the CIA, said Moscow posed a threat in Europe and was "asserting itself aggressively" in Ukraine.

:rubchin:
It's kinda worrying that Trump's nominee for Defense Secretary doesn't seem to know that NATO didn't EXIST in Word War Two !! :rubchin:


Not really . Reagan was clueless about anywhere beyond the US and there is no reason to believe the rest of his administration had much more of an idea than him.
He fed the people what they wanted to hear ,told them that making rich people richer would be good for them,extolled freedom but was essentially a protectionist.
Trump has been very specific in his promises though...that could be his undoing.
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Tytoalba
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Affa
Jan 12 2017, 10:55 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:29 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 02:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
No. When push comes to shove, in any circumstances, those that stand alongside me and me them.

Where does that leave those that don't stand with you?
You mean people like you? ;D
You should know the answer to that one.
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 07:45 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 10:55 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Where does that leave those that don't stand with you?
You mean people like you? ;D
You should know the answer to that one.
Do you think that people who do not think the way you do should be side-lined ? i.e. there must be something wrong with them ?
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Tytoalba
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C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 07:45 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 10:55 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You mean people like you? ;D
You should know the answer to that one.
Do you think that people who do not think the way you do should be side-lined ? i.e. there must be something wrong with them ?
I think silly questions, when the answers are self evident, should be ignored.
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 11:35 PM
C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 07:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Do you think that people who do not think the way you do should be side-lined ? i.e. there must be something wrong with them ?
I think silly questions, when the answers are self evident, should be ignored.
Perhaps you are unaware of the impressions you give in your posts ?
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Deleted User
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C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 07:45 PM
Affa
Jan 12 2017, 10:55 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You mean people like you? ;D
You should know the answer to that one.
Do you think that people who do not think the way you do should be side-lined ? i.e. there must be something wrong with them ?


Oh the irony doh:
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C-too
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gansao
Jan 14 2017, 08:47 AM
C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 07:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Do you think that people who do not think the way you do should be side-lined ? i.e. there must be something wrong with them ?


Oh the irony doh:
I'd put your mirror away if I were you. ;D
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C-too
Jan 14 2017, 11:55 AM
gansao
Jan 14 2017, 08:47 AM
C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Oh the irony doh:
I'd put your mirror away if I were you. ;D


Oh the irony once again... ;-)
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krugerman
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The Question is : what to do about Russia

There have been some suggestions that a trade-off could strike a peace deal in Ukraine, namely that in return for western and Ukrainian recognition of Crimea belonging to Russia, then Russia will cease its interference in eastern Ukraine.

Such a deal could be achievable because the west is currently united in its opposition to what Russia is doing, and united in applying economic and other sanctions on Russia, and Russia would dearly like these sanctions to be lifted.

But heres the potential "fly in the ointment"

For whatever reason, Donald Trump appears to warm to Putin and has indicated he would like closer and better relations with Russia, but this does note bode very well with Europe, and Europe will not give way unless Russia cease's its interference in Ukraine.

There is the potential for a future clash of policy between Europe and the United States under Donald Trump.

But which way will Teressa May turn ?, will she follow the lead of David Cameron who stuck firmly on the side of Europe and Barack Obama, or will she be a traitor to the idea of sovereign integrity and side with mad man Donald Trump. ?

For me personaly I am on the side of the people of Ukraine, this is a subject dear to my heart, because it is what they want which is what matters, and the Ukrainian people should stop been used as pieces in a chess game, The Ukraine does not belong to anyone except The Ukrainian people.

If the Prime Minister of my country makes any move which undermines the wishes of the people of Ukraine, then I will turn against my country, for I am with Merkel, Hollande, the peoples of the Baltic nations, and the whole of free Europe - the emphasis been FREE Europe.
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krugerman
Jan 14 2017, 01:15 PM
The Question is : what to do about Russia

There have been some suggestions that a trade-off could strike a peace deal in Ukraine, namely that in return for western and Ukrainian recognition of Crimea belonging to Russia, then Russia will cease its interference in eastern Ukraine.

Such a deal could be achievable because the west is currently united in its opposition to what Russia is doing, and united in applying economic and other sanctions on Russia, and Russia would dearly like these sanctions to be lifted.

But heres the potential "fly in the ointment"

For whatever reason, Donald Trump appears to warm to Putin and has indicated he would like closer and better relations with Russia, but this does note bode very well with Europe, and Europe will not give way unless Russia cease's its interference in Ukraine.

There is the potential for a future clash of policy between Europe and the United States under Donald Trump.

But which way will Teressa May turn ?, will she follow the lead of David Cameron who stuck firmly on the side of Europe and Barack Obama, or will she be a traitor to the idea of sovereign integrity and side with mad man Donald Trump. ?

For me personaly I am on the side of the people of Ukraine, this is a subject dear to my heart, because it is what they want which is what matters, and the Ukrainian people should stop been used as pieces in a chess game, The Ukraine does not belong to anyone except The Ukrainian people.

If the Prime Minister of my country makes any move which undermines the wishes of the people of Ukraine, then I will turn against my country, for I am with Merkel, Hollande, the peoples of the Baltic nations, and the whole of free Europe - the emphasis been FREE Europe.


If the US made it clear that it would not support the EU via NATO over the issue in Ukraine if they did not accept Crimea being in Russia's sphere of influence then the EU would huff and puff then accept it.
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krugerman
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The issue of Crimea is not the issue

Crimea is ( or was ) the only province of Ukraine which had a majority ethnic Russian population, and I believe that it is possible for Europe and Ukraine to be pragmatic and see that by accepting Russia's ilegal occupation in return for Russia halting its interference in other Ukrainian provinces ( Luhansk and Donetsk ), a long term deal could be struck in bringing peace.

Europwe however will not accept giving way to Russia's continued interference in the disputed provinces, and will not lift the sanctions, regardless of what Trump thinks or does.

This is my point - that there seems to be potential for a very serious split between Europe and Trump's America, which in turn would jeopordise the NATO alliance.

Sacrificing what is part of Ukraine with a majority ethnic Ukrainian people is not acceptable, and if Mr Trump shows sympathy to Putin, then he is no friend of either Europe or the rule of law, and Teressa May MUST NOT side with such ideas.

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krugerman
Jan 14 2017, 01:46 PM
The issue of Crimea is not the issue

Crimea is ( or was ) the only province of Ukraine which had a majority ethnic Russian population, and I believe that it is possible for Europe and Ukraine to be pragmatic and see that by accepting Russia's ilegal occupation in return for Russia halting its interference in other Ukrainian provinces ( Luhansk and Donetsk ), a long term deal could be struck in bringing peace.

Europwe however will not accept giving way to Russia's continued interference in the disputed provinces, and will not lift the sanctions, regardless of what Trump thinks or does.

This is my point - that there seems to be potential for a very serious split between Europe and Trump's America, which in turn would jeopordise the NATO alliance.

Sacrificing what is part of Ukraine with a majority ethnic Ukrainian people is not acceptable, and if Mr Trump shows sympathy to Putin, then he is no friend of either Europe or the rule of law, and Teressa May MUST NOT side with such ideas.



Russia was never going to let Ukraine out of its sphere of influence especially because of its military presence in Crimea. Russia has made it clear that they believe the EU and the US had no right to support a coup in Ukraine .
So I doubt that they would accept they have acted illegally anyway.
Trump may see Russia as a future asset to the US and Europe as a drain in military resources.
The US never was a friend of Europe. Europe was and still is a lieutenant to the US.
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Tytoalba
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C-too
Jan 14 2017, 07:17 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 11:35 PM
C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think silly questions, when the answers are self evident, should be ignored.
Perhaps you are unaware of the impressions you give in your posts ?
Do I care and does it matter to me.? They obviously make an impression on you for it draws your attention.
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Jan 14 2017, 02:33 PM
C-too
Jan 14 2017, 07:17 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 11:35 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Perhaps you are unaware of the impressions you give in your posts ?
Do I care and does it matter to me.? They obviously make an impression on you for it draws your attention.
Nope it was your earlier comments that drew you to my attention. It should be simple enough for you to answer the question. I would have answered it if it had been asked of me.
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