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D Trump; + merges
Topic Started: Jan 7 2017, 07:31 AM (1,612 Views)
C-too
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Donald trump agrees that there was Russian interference in the election, but he says it did not influence the outcome of the election.

No influence on the outcome because he says so !jk! IMO he has exposed his Mr Smart Mouth immaturity.
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krugerman
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gansao
Jan 14 2017, 02:08 PM
krugerman
Jan 14 2017, 01:46 PM
The issue of Crimea is not the issue

Crimea is ( or was ) the only province of Ukraine which had a majority ethnic Russian population, and I believe that it is possible for Europe and Ukraine to be pragmatic and see that by accepting Russia's ilegal occupation in return for Russia halting its interference in other Ukrainian provinces ( Luhansk and Donetsk ), a long term deal could be struck in bringing peace.

Europwe however will not accept giving way to Russia's continued interference in the disputed provinces, and will not lift the sanctions, regardless of what Trump thinks or does.

This is my point - that there seems to be potential for a very serious split between Europe and Trump's America, which in turn would jeopordise the NATO alliance.

Sacrificing what is part of Ukraine with a majority ethnic Ukrainian people is not acceptable, and if Mr Trump shows sympathy to Putin, then he is no friend of either Europe or the rule of law, and Teressa May MUST NOT side with such ideas.



Russia was never going to let Ukraine out of its sphere of influence especially because of its military presence in Crimea. Russia has made it clear that they believe the EU and the US had no right to support a coup in Ukraine .
So I doubt that they would accept they have acted illegally anyway.
Trump may see Russia as a future asset to the US and Europe as a drain in military resources.
The US never was a friend of Europe. Europe was and still is a lieutenant to the US.
If both the people and government of Ukraine decide they do not wish to be part of the sphere of influence of Russia, then they wont be part of it; The aspirations, wishes and desires of Ukrainians has nothing to do with Russia.

Neither the United States or EU have ever supported a coup, because there has not been a coup in Ukraine, President Yanukovych fled the country after opposition parties in the democratically elected Parliament had indicated they would vote on impeaching him - most of his ministers simply disappeared.

Your last two lines "Trump may see Russia as a future asset to the US and Europe as a drain in military resources.The US never was a friend of Europe. Europe was and still is a lieutenant to the US"

Precisely

As stated - Europe will not sacrifice The Ukraine and its people simply to please either Putin or Trump, there are several very strong principles here, namely the rule of law, the democratic and legitimate rights of a nation, its people and its sovereignty.

If ever there was a very good reason for Europe to forge its own military co-operation and alliance, then this is it, and I for one will always be on the side of what is right.

You appear to suggest that Europe will somehow fall into line, I can asure you that this will not happen, mainly because on this issue, Europe has "right" on its side.
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krugerman
Jan 14 2017, 04:31 PM
gansao
Jan 14 2017, 02:08 PM
krugerman
Jan 14 2017, 01:46 PM
The issue of Crimea is not the issue

Crimea is ( or was ) the only province of Ukraine which had a majority ethnic Russian population, and I believe that it is possible for Europe and Ukraine to be pragmatic and see that by accepting Russia's ilegal occupation in return for Russia halting its interference in other Ukrainian provinces ( Luhansk and Donetsk ), a long term deal could be struck in bringing peace.

Europwe however will not accept giving way to Russia's continued interference in the disputed provinces, and will not lift the sanctions, regardless of what Trump thinks or does.

This is my point - that there seems to be potential for a very serious split between Europe and Trump's America, which in turn would jeopordise the NATO alliance.

Sacrificing what is part of Ukraine with a majority ethnic Ukrainian people is not acceptable, and if Mr Trump shows sympathy to Putin, then he is no friend of either Europe or the rule of law, and Teressa May MUST NOT side with such ideas.



Russia was never going to let Ukraine out of its sphere of influence especially because of its military presence in Crimea. Russia has made it clear that they believe the EU and the US had no right to support a coup in Ukraine .
So I doubt that they would accept they have acted illegally anyway.
Trump may see Russia as a future asset to the US and Europe as a drain in military resources.
The US never was a friend of Europe. Europe was and still is a lieutenant to the US.
If both the people and government of Ukraine decide they do not wish to be part of the sphere of influence of Russia, then they wont be part of it; The aspirations, wishes and desires of Ukrainians has nothing to do with Russia.

Neither the United States or EU have ever supported a coup, because there has not been a coup in Ukraine, President Yanukovych fled the country after opposition parties in the democratically elected Parliament had indicated they would vote on impeaching him - most of his ministers simply disappeared.

Your last two lines "Trump may see Russia as a future asset to the US and Europe as a drain in military resources.The US never was a friend of Europe. Europe was and still is a lieutenant to the US"

Precisely

As stated - Europe will not sacrifice The Ukraine and its people simply to please either Putin or Trump, there are several very strong principles here, namely the rule of law, the democratic and legitimate rights of a nation, its people and its sovereignty.

If ever there was a very good reason for Europe to forge its own military co-operation and alliance, then this is it, and I for one will always be on the side of what is right.

You appear to suggest that Europe will somehow fall into line, I can asure you that this will not happen, mainly because on this issue, Europe has "right" on its side.

We can go round in circles arguing whether it was correct for the EU and the US to support pro western riots against a democratically elected Ukrainian government but the fact is that Russia reacted to it just as the US would have reacted to a pro Russian faction attempting to overthrow the Mexican government.
Another fact is that Russia never was going to allow it to happen especially as they have a naval base in Crimea. So the US and EU gambled and the Ukrainian people lost.
I can assure you that without a great deal of help from US forces the EU will sacrifice the Ukraine ..they will have little choice. I don't believe for a minute that the EU has any other interests than its own . If also don't believe that they have any appetite to confront Russia militarily ,either now or in the near future.
Welcome to reality..
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Happy Hornet
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C-too
Jan 14 2017, 11:55 AM
gansao
Jan 14 2017, 08:47 AM
C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Oh the irony doh:
I'd put your mirror away if I were you. ;D
Easier said than done when you're as handsome as I am 😂
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Rich
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C-too
Jan 14 2017, 07:17 AM
Tytoalba
Jan 13 2017, 11:35 PM
C-too
Jan 13 2017, 08:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think silly questions, when the answers are self evident, should be ignored.
Perhaps you are unaware of the impressions you give in your posts ?
I think that that could be said of every forum member.....the word you may be looking for is......perception,....which explains a lot of the animosity on this board.
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xosg
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Steve K
Jan 11 2017, 10:56 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 11 2017, 10:28 PM
Steve K
Jan 11 2017, 06:09 PM
The latest news is just hilarious

Trump spent the last year making fake news allegations about his opponents knowing full well that mud sticks and he'd gain. Now he's seriously upset about what appears to be fake news allegations about him

Biter bit and whining !jk!
But now the election is over and Trump is to be inaugurated into the presidency in 9 days time, does any of it matter? He has powerful supporters to help maintain his position, and stay he will, for there does not seem to be anything in law to challenge him and he has the party majority in both houses of the American government.

Like our Brexit campaign that is also decided, it seems there is a modern phenomena of attacking something for the sake of it, or for poor loser spite.
It matters if he loses the Hill and a lot of commentators say he will. We're in Trump v Ryan proxy war time already

Wanna bet Ryan loses ?
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xosg
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C-too
Jan 7 2017, 07:31 AM
Donald trump agrees that there was Russian interference in the election, but he says it did not influence the outcome of the election.

No influence on the outcome because he says so !jk! IMO he has exposed his Mr Smart Mouth immaturity.
Why don't you just get it. CLINTON influenced the outcome of the election herself. The Russians had no influence whatsoever.If she hadn't done what she had done,there would be no problem,would there ?

Are you saying the American people should have been kept in the dark about all her shenanigans ?

If she hadn't created them,she wouldn't have a problem,would she ?

A vile,deceitful,greedy woman. Go ask the people of HAITI. Don't say that is Bill Clinton,it is her to

If anyone would cause WW3 it was her. Not TRUMP

So what,if trump gets on with Putin ?
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:32 PM
Wanna bet Ryan loses ?
I've no idea who will "win" but I'm wondering how long Trump can fool the millions of of naive fools who voted for him whilst at the same time enriching his fellow travellers, Twitter will only hold them off for so long.
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xosg
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Happy Hornet
Jan 12 2017, 04:30 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 01:28 PM
Happy Hornet
Jan 12 2017, 12:43 PM

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The Billionaires are successful people and are hardly likely to be open to bribes. If he wants the best, and sees them as the best then their wealth or lack of it is irrelevant, especially if they can share their wealth and expertise with the nation.
Not likely to be able to relate to mr and mrs joe public very well though are they?
They don'y have to though, do they ?

As long as the jobs come back and they handle the country just like their businesses.

We don't need politicians.. We need business people and people who know what they are doing
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:46 PM


We don't need politicians.. We need business people and people who know what they are doing
Oh, and we don't need experts either, apparently common sense and being plucky solves everything.
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Affa
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 07:50 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:46 PM


We don't need politicians.. We need business people and people who know what they are doing
Oh, and we don't need experts either, apparently common sense and being plucky solves everything.
;D
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xosg
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 07:50 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:46 PM


We don't need politicians.. We need business people and people who know what they are doing
Oh, and we don't need experts either, apparently common sense and being plucky solves everything.
Common sense solves lot of things.Pity you lot on the left don't use it as much.

EXPERT !jk! Always said it was an overated word,used so cheaply and often
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xosg
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 07:40 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:32 PM
Wanna bet Ryan loses ?
I've no idea who will "win" but I'm wondering how long Trump can fool the millions of of naive fools who voted for him whilst at the same time enriching his fellow travellers, Twitter will only hold them off for so long.
I thought you were clever !jk! So you keep telling everyone. There is method behind the madness of using TWITTER. I will give you a cookie when you work it out :facepalm:
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xosg
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 07:40 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:32 PM
Wanna bet Ryan loses ?
I've no idea who will "win" but I'm wondering how long Trump can fool the millions of of naive fools who voted for him whilst at the same time enriching his fellow travellers, Twitter will only hold them off for so long.
There is only going to be one winner,and it aint Ryan
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:53 PM
Common sense solves lot of things.Pity you lot on the left don't use it as much.

EXPERT !jk! Always said it was an overated word,used so cheaply and often
I frequently witness poorer right wing folks desecrating the very institutions that are designed to help them out, often out of nothing more than a bizarre desire to come across as tough and self reliant when in actual fact they are the most vulnerable group of all to sea changes in society and the global economy

What was that about common sense again? :rubchin:
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xosg
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C-too
Jan 12 2017, 09:44 PM
Tytoalba
Jan 12 2017, 05:22 PM
C-too
Jan 12 2017, 02:19 PM

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There you go. A liberals attempt to change human nature and ten thousand years and more of human evolution. You must know, like I do, that in extremis our instincts and human nature comes to the irrational fore.

I ask the question. When was the last time you got angry and lost your temper? You may not have done in recent times, but at some time you must. Its how we are.
What has any of that got to do with applying objectivity and logic to politics ?
You need to try it out sometime
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:57 PM
There is only going to be one winner,and it aint Ryan
All it will take is a video tape of Trump putting Communism before principles to render that argument moot.
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:55 PM
I thought you were clever !jk! So you keep telling everyone. There is method behind the madness of using TWITTER. I will give you a cookie when you work it out :facepalm:
Yes, it's for people who like their misinformation bite sized and not overly complicated.

SO SAD!

;-)
Edited by Tigger, Jan 14 2017, 08:05 PM.
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:00 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:53 PM
Common sense solves lot of things.Pity you lot on the left don't use it as much.

EXPERT !jk! Always said it was an overated word,used so cheaply and often
I frequently witness poorer right wing folks desecrating the very institutions that are designed to help them out, often out of nothing more than a bizarre desire to come across as tough and self reliant when in actual fact they are the most vulnerable group of all to sea changes in society and the global economy

What was that about common sense again? :rubchin:
Do you mean BREXIT !jk! Still harping on about that.

Lets have a little bet shall we. I say,"

1.We will get control of our borders back

2. We will come out of the Single market. ( If we stay in there will be NO FOM )

Despite all the moaners crying foul,the majority will get what they want.
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xosg
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:01 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:57 PM
There is only going to be one winner,and it aint Ryan
All it will take is a video tape of Trump putting Communism before principles to render that argument moot.
Oh I see. So if he gets along with PUTIN so what ? (He is a commie ) :facepalm:

Better for the world,don't you think ? :thumbsup:

The worst outcome for ISIS (unless you support them,of course ? ) :P
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:05 PM


1.We will get control of our borders back

2. We will come out of the Single market. ( If we stay in there will be NO FOM )

Despite all the moaners crying foul,the majority will get what they want.
I'm really looking forward to a repeal of workers rights, even more state interference in our private lives and the wealth gap getting even bigger as the horrible truth finally sinks in. :thumbsup:

But at least there won't be a Polish family down the road working harder than you and earning more money. :)
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Tigger
Senior Member
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:09 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:01 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:57 PM
There is only going to be one winner,and it aint Ryan
All it will take is a video tape of Trump putting Communism before principles to render that argument moot.
Oh I see. So if he gets along with PUTIN so what ? (He is a commie ) :facepalm:

Better for the world,don't you think ? :thumbsup:

The worst outcome for ISIS (unless you support them,of course ? ) :P
Putin is a danger to democracy.

End of self evident message.
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:05 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:55 PM
I thought you were clever !jk! So you keep telling everyone. There is method behind the madness of using TWITTER. I will give you a cookie when you work it out :facepalm:
Yes, it's for people who like their misinformation bite sized and not overly complicated.

SO SAD!

;-)
Unlike you,I don't believe everything the MSM tell me. ( You need to get out more )

I prefer to hear it from the horses mouth with no spin or politicization (call me old fashioned :facepalm: )

You still don't get it,do you ? ( I just gave you a clue regarding Twitter )
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:09 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:05 PM


1.We will get control of our borders back

2. We will come out of the Single market. ( If we stay in there will be NO FOM )

Despite all the moaners crying foul,the majority will get what they want.
I'm really looking forward to a repeal of workers rights, even more state interference in our private lives and the wealth gap getting even bigger as the horrible truth finally sinks in. :thumbsup:

But at least there won't be a Polish family down the road working harder than you and earning more money. :)
Sarting to sound like a democrat now. ( you still aint learned nothing,have you ? :facepalm:

Best sign up to Corbyn while you can. Because he has learnt absolutely fook all as well !jk!
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:10 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:09 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Oh I see. So if he gets along with PUTIN so what ? (He is a commie ) :facepalm:

Better for the world,don't you think ? :thumbsup:

The worst outcome for ISIS (unless you support them,of course ? ) :P
Putin is a danger to democracy.

End of self evident message.
Oh we do love someone to hate,don't we ?

You still watching the BBC then :facepalm:

Commies under the bed and all that,what !jk!

McCarthy would have loved you
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:10 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:09 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Oh I see. So if he gets along with PUTIN so what ? (He is a commie ) :facepalm:

Better for the world,don't you think ? :thumbsup:

The worst outcome for ISIS (unless you support them,of course ? ) :P
Putin is a danger to democracy.

End of self evident message.
So was CLINTON. Notice the past tense (wow, I surprise myself sometimes )

Now lets get back to the present :

ASSAD,I suppose he is a danger also ( so the BBC says ) !jk!
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:17 PM


You still watching the BBC then :facepalm:
I much prefer Russia's Channel 1, I do like a good false rape story concocted in the back room of a Kremlin office, yourself?
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:10 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:09 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Oh I see. So if he gets along with PUTIN so what ? (He is a commie ) :facepalm:

Better for the world,don't you think ? :thumbsup:

The worst outcome for ISIS (unless you support them,of course ? ) :P
Putin is a danger to democracy.

End of self evident message.
I think you need to stop now before I embarrass you more.I don't get a kick out of belittling lefties like I used to. (However I may have an exception in your case )
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:25 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:17 PM


You still watching the BBC then :facepalm:
I much prefer Russia's Channel 1, I do like a good false rape story concocted in the back room of a Kremlin office, yourself?
Heard all that shit before.Of course the WEST couldn't possibly do anything like that,could we ( call me old fashioned ) :facepalm:
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Tigger
Senior Member
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:20 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:10 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:09 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Putin is a danger to democracy.

End of self evident message.
So was CLINTON. Notice the past tense (wow, I surprise myself sometimes )

Now lets get back to the present :

ASSAD,I suppose he is a danger also ( so the BBC says ) !jk!
Assad is not really a problem to us domestically he is kept in place by Putin to spite the West, oh, and have you had your call up papers for the Russian Army yet?

We'll need a few gullible Quislings for when the shit hits the fan.......
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Tigger
Senior Member
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:25 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:10 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:09 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Putin is a danger to democracy.

End of self evident message.
I think you need to stop now before I embarrass you more.I don't get a kick out of belittling lefties like I used to. (However I may have an exception in your case )
Fancy a journalism course in Moscow? Special rates for turncoats apparently, just don't mention the little bald bloke in disrespectful terms especially when out for an evening walk.
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:28 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:20 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:10 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So was CLINTON. Notice the past tense (wow, I surprise myself sometimes )

Now lets get back to the present :

ASSAD,I suppose he is a danger also ( so the BBC says ) !jk!
Assad is not really a problem to us domestically he is kept in place by Putin to spite the West, oh, and have you had your call up papers for the Russian Army yet?

We'll need a few gullible Quislings for when the shit hits the fan.......
You do talk shite and go of on tangents sometimes :facepalm:

Maybe its old age,maybe it's dementia, maybe it's stress.Have you seen a doctor !jk!
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Tigger
Senior Member
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:34 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:28 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Assad is not really a problem to us domestically he is kept in place by Putin to spite the West, oh, and have you had your call up papers for the Russian Army yet?

We'll need a few gullible Quislings for when the shit hits the fan.......
You do talk shite and go of on tangents sometimes :facepalm:

Maybe its old age,maybe it's dementia, maybe it's stress.Have you seen a doctor !jk!
Remember, I'm not the one crawling up Putin's arse.

;-)
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xosg
Senior Member
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:30 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:25 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:10 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think you need to stop now before I embarrass you more.I don't get a kick out of belittling lefties like I used to. (However I may have an exception in your case )
Fancy a journalism course in Moscow? Special rates for turncoats apparently, just don't mention the little bald bloke in disrespectful terms especially when out for an evening walk.
Unlike you,I know and have seen the propaganda and brainwashing your government puts out to the masses.One of the reasons I don't watch news programmes. Now the whole reason for this is to be oblivious to it's intended audience. Would'nt you agree ?

I like to go elsewhere for my news (call me old fashioned ) that way you tend to get a more balanced view,would'nt you agree ?
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xosg
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:35 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:34 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:28 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You do talk shite and go of on tangents sometimes :facepalm:

Maybe its old age,maybe it's dementia, maybe it's stress.Have you seen a doctor !jk!
Remember, I'm not the one crawling up Putin's arse.

;-)
Show me that man ? :facepalm:

Of with his head ( call me old fashioned )
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Rich
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:53 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 07:50 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:46 PM


We don't need politicians.. We need business people and people who know what they are doing
Oh, and we don't need experts either, apparently common sense and being plucky solves everything.
Common sense solves lot of things.Pity you lot on the left don't use it as much.

EXPERT !jk! Always said it was an overated word,used so cheaply and often
Latin...ex= out of.....spurt = drip. ;D
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Tigger
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xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:40 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:35 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Remember, I'm not the one crawling up Putin's arse.

;-)
Show me that man ? :facepalm:

Of with his head ( call me old fashioned )
You have mirrors right?

Putin is not our friend, you and me with our gobs and strong opinions would not last long on his watch, and no that's not information from the MSM............
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:51 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:40 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:35 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Show me that man ? :facepalm:

Of with his head ( call me old fashioned )
You have mirrors right?

Putin is not our friend, you and me with our gobs and strong opinions would not last long on his watch, and no that's not information from the MSM............


Since when did the West pick their friends from governments that insisted on personal freedom.?
When did they actually care?
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xosg
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Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:51 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:40 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:35 PM

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Show me that man ? :facepalm:

Of with his head ( call me old fashioned )
You have mirrors right?

Putin is not our friend, you and me with our gobs and strong opinions would not last long on his watch, and no that's not information from the MSM............
Show me a post were I have said,implied that PUTIN is our friend ?

I agree with you not denying it
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xosg
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Rich
Jan 14 2017, 08:50 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 07:53 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 07:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Common sense solves lot of things.Pity you lot on the left don't use it as much.

EXPERT !jk! Always said it was an overated word,used so cheaply and often
Latin...ex= out of.....spurt = drip. ;D
I LIKE IT,I LIKE IT.Give that man a jar of cookies :thumbsup:
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xosg
Senior Member
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gansao
Jan 14 2017, 08:55 PM
Tigger
Jan 14 2017, 08:51 PM
xosg
Jan 14 2017, 08:40 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You have mirrors right?

Putin is not our friend, you and me with our gobs and strong opinions would not last long on his watch, and no that's not information from the MSM............


Since when did the West pick their friends from governments that insisted on personal freedom.?
When did they actually care?
EXACTLY. Could'nt agree more :thumbsup:
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