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| Multicultrism; Why is it not working to government plans ? | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 10 2018, 08:38 PM (1,164 Views) | |
| gus | Apr 10 2018, 08:38 PM Post #1 |
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Junior Member
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Topic i originally posted on UK Debate 1, as the years have past since that post i see that my predictions have come true, at the time of my original posting i talked about those that did not wish to intergrate, with several ethnic community's refusing to intergrate, this has now grown to large towns, is it right that we should still invite those to our country that refuse to be part of the governments multicultreal society but choose those that are more compatible to Western living/ ideals and most of all, A Work Ethic, putting back into a system that has helped them... |
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| Oddball | Apr 13 2018, 04:41 PM Post #2 |
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Let me throw in a couple of addendum questions - why is it that multi-culturalism appears to cause negative situations across most of the world? Why should human nature be somehow different in this country?
Edited by Oddball, Apr 14 2018, 01:13 AM.
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| Steve K | Apr 13 2018, 05:47 PM Post #3 |
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Once and future cynic
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A problem here is that the word 'multiculturalism' has varied meanings So when you use it do you most mean a) the tolerance of different cultures within our laws? b) the indulgence of different cultures (by either allowing a degree of law breaking or undue support)? c) the imposition of different cultures (forcing people to obey cultures they would not wish to)? I have no issue with (a) which is the default meaning of multiculturalism but it is not uncommon to see people equating that with (c) |
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| Rich | Apr 14 2018, 12:01 AM Post #4 |
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Well, this will cause debate, if as we saw as has happened with uncontrolled immigration, the fact that those coming to the UK MUST integrate and accept our values and cultures has not been made a condition of them coming here, is, really the biggest threat to our hard earned nationalism of which we are not only very proud but as history tells us are willing to sacrifice our lives to maintain that status. |
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| C-too | Apr 14 2018, 10:48 AM Post #5 |
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Honourable Member
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"uncontrolled immigration" ? Are you referring to the Freedom of Movement for citizens from European Union countries ? It seems a little odd to complain about EU migration given that Brexit is highly likely to increase migrants from around the world, many of whom are likely to have very different cultures and religions from ours. It looks like the problem of integration is set to worsen. |
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| Pro Veritas | Apr 15 2018, 09:40 AM Post #6 |
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Upstanding Member
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But pretty much every case of a) has already turned to b) and many are on the path to c). Sikhs are already permitted to carry the Kirpan, when everyone else is banned from carrying such a knife in public. Muslims and Jews are permitted to use animal slaughter practices that were banned to the rest of us years ago - however the Muslim and Jewish "exemption" was confirmed in legislation as recently as 2015. A "culture" is much like a "judicial system"; partly because The Law is part of what defines A Culture - it becomes untenable having two, sometimes competing, systems in place at the same time. Conflict will ALWAYS arise and then one will get the shaft in favour of the other - leading to more conflict. All The Best |
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| Steve K | Apr 15 2018, 10:41 AM Post #7 |
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Once and future cynic
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except you offer not a microgram of evidence of that supposed "on the path to c)" and a trivial set of (b) so your "every case" seems to be well sus Do we allow bigamy? No. Do we allow Islamic divorce? No. Do we ban pork? No. Do we ban non halal meat? No. |
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| Rich | Apr 15 2018, 11:01 AM Post #8 |
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Well, the following report tells a different story and is tantamount to giving polygamy a blessing. https://www.sott.net/article/368842-New-rules-mean-extra-welfare-benefits-for-UK-polygamists-because-multiculturalism |
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| Steve K | Apr 15 2018, 11:09 AM Post #9 |
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Once and future cynic
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Yes but we do not allow such marriages in the UK. And as the article says Universal Credit removes this anomaly FWIW I would just bar from the UK anyone with a polygamous marriage and severely restrict trade with countries that allow it |
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| Happy Hornet | Apr 15 2018, 11:10 AM Post #10 |
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As Steve has alluded to, there are many different aspects to multicuralism. Pointing to one negative aspect and saying that multicuralism has failed is like pointing to one incompetent MP and saying that politics has failed. People in this country enjoy aspects of multicuralism every day such as American TV and film, Chinese and Indian food etc. Banning it simply isn't realistic, but addressing the negative aspects of it is realistic and urgent IMO. |
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| Steve K | Apr 15 2018, 11:16 AM Post #11 |
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Once and future cynic
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Hard not to see some posted opinions as the authors at heart wanting everyone to be like themselves. Same opinions, same clothes, same religion, same football team, same beer, same TV programmes etc etc. May even have troubles with there being different ages and genders If they really thought through it, what they seem to want would be hell. |
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| Happy Hornet | Apr 15 2018, 11:26 AM Post #12 |
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Agreed. I think a lot of people struggle with empathy too. Basically anyone who isn't just like them isn't really human. |
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| papasmurf | Apr 15 2018, 11:29 AM Post #13 |
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Well I would need some proof, judging by some of the attendees at motorcycle rallies, that Homo Sapiens did not mate with Neanderthals. But back on topic personally I can see no advantages of multiculturalism in Britain but I can see plenty of negatives. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 15 2018, 11:31 AM Post #14 |
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American TV and film, Chinese and Indian food You can't use those as positives when the negatives are so extreme, you will have to do better than that imo. |
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| Happy Hornet | Apr 15 2018, 11:39 AM Post #15 |
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Any political party that campaigned to ban them would be wiped out at the ballot box I'd wager. |
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| Steve K | Apr 15 2018, 12:07 PM Post #16 |
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Once and future cynic
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It was importing from other cultures that brought us the wheel, language, the cooking pot, vaccines, the automobile, the aeroplane, printed text and many other thing including beer, wine, pasta and pizza I'd so love those that reject any form of multiculturalism to be forced to live without those |
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| papasmurf | Apr 15 2018, 12:21 PM Post #17 |
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None of those needed the importation of people. |
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| Rich | Apr 15 2018, 12:37 PM Post #18 |
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Agreed, but we are NOT barring them are we? therefore the government has either ridden roughshod over our traditional values and cultural practises or given polygamy it's blessing, either way it runs counter to your previous claim that we do not support bigamists. I do not see any other way of viewing such payments by benefits and welfare as I have described. It's fxxxxxg madness when the decent law abiding citizens who pay tax are left wanting. |
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| Oddball | Apr 15 2018, 01:14 PM Post #19 |
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Hmmn, that assertion could be to a significant degree, challenged - many 'foreigners' who were/are resident here, invented and expanded on inventions and ideas while living here. Multiculturalism comes as a mixed bag, containing pluses as well as rather a lot of minuses. |
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| Pro Veritas | Apr 15 2018, 02:09 PM Post #20 |
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And, the Hijab, Sharia / Beth Din "Courts", Honour Murders, FGM, Inhumane Animal Slaughter. At least try and be balanced. All The Best |
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| Pro Veritas | Apr 15 2018, 02:10 PM Post #21 |
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Indeed. Far too many multiculturalism supporters seem too stupid to understand that the transmission of ideas CAN be separated from the movement of people. All The Best |
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| Steve K | Apr 15 2018, 03:42 PM Post #22 |
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Once and future cynic
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Point went right past you then But to respond to your diversion, if you think inhumane animal slaughter and honour murders were unknown in the UK before large numbers of muslims got here you are very very mistaken As you mention them it's your choice if you wear a Hijab but I'm guessing that like me you don't, I give no recognition of Sharia or Beth Din arbitrations and if you do more fool you. And FGM is an abhorrence but it's hardly a mainstream practice in immigrants despite what the Maily Express would have you believe. I suggest you'll find that (male) genital mutilation has and does occur far more often in non immigrants |
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| C-too | Apr 15 2018, 09:09 PM Post #23 |
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And some of it didn't, some of it was brought back by British administrators, British soldiers, and Brits abroad of whom some intermarried with people of the British Empire and further. And of course there wouldn't be enough room on these islands if all British migrants and their imediate descendents decided to return here. And complete chaios if they brought back with them the various cultures and religions that had been picked up along the way. |
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| papasmurf | Apr 16 2018, 06:46 AM Post #24 |
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On aspect that really hacks me off is the insistence by some restaurant and or takeaway owners that only someone from their home country can cook the food they serve. On a personal level my wife can cook the equal and sometimes better Indian, Chinese, Japanese and several other foreign cuisines. (Including getting Sushi seaweed wrapped rolls right first time in taste and presentation.) |
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| Steve K | Apr 16 2018, 07:39 AM Post #25 |
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Once and future cynic
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Not good that IIRC they can only require a specific ethnicity for serving staff (to maintain the restaurant theme for customers) but not cooking staff per se however and this is outrageous, they can then impose foreign language requirements on the cooking staff so they can converse with the serving staff The law needs to change |
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| gus | Apr 30 2018, 08:49 PM Post #26 |
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But that is not happening, we have more and more enclaves of those wishing to live with there own, from just your country of origen to the most frightening, religion. |
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| gus | Apr 30 2018, 08:52 PM Post #27 |
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Agree. |
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| gus | Apr 30 2018, 09:09 PM Post #28 |
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Forced multicultrism is not working, A fact, Sharia and Christanity, you got to be joking, Eastern European and the UK, those that wish to come to this country and make a honest days wages compared to the scammers and thieves, We have to have a system that welcomes those that wish to work and a system that allows us to remove criminals, Freedom of movement is not for those that wish to play on the wrong side, refugees, As a christian country we should only accept Christian refugees, where as the middle east country's should accept muslims, And the muslims in this country, proportianally are the biggest drain on benifits in this country, followed by economic migrants from Africia, WE HAVE A SAYING " CRIME WATCH " spot the English man...... |
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| Steve K | Apr 30 2018, 09:55 PM Post #29 |
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Once and future cynic
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Link please to back that |
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| Pro Veritas | Apr 30 2018, 10:02 PM Post #30 |
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Well, surely that's complete and utter bollocks. If it is OK for James Bond (a form of entertainment) to be black (and it IS OK IMO) then surely it is OK for the front of house staff at an "ethnic themed" restaurant (another form of entertainment) to be any and all ethnicities. Surely what matters at a restaurant is the QUALITY of the food, not how the waiter looks or sounds? All The Best Edited by Pro Veritas, Apr 30 2018, 10:03 PM.
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| Steve K | Apr 30 2018, 10:28 PM Post #31 |
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Once and future cynic
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if you eat at Greggs maybe |
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| Pro Veritas | Apr 30 2018, 11:55 PM Post #32 |
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So are you saying that a white person can't be a waiter at a Chinese or Indian restaurant? Are you also saying that "ethnic ambience" is more important than food quality? All The Best |
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| Happy Hornet | May 1 2018, 05:31 AM Post #33 |
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No, a person's ethnicity shouldn't bar them from working in a restaurant, nor should it take away anything from a person's dining experience. I don't really like Chinese food so can't comment, but I've eaten in a lot of Indian restaurant's that have had a mix of staff and it hasn't bothered me one bit. On the other hand no amount of ambience or cultural authenticity can make up for cr@p food IMO |
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| Pro Veritas | May 1 2018, 06:10 AM Post #34 |
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Agree 100%. All The Best |
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| Steve K | May 1 2018, 07:42 AM Post #35 |
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Once and future cynic
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Did I say that? No Please don't make up any more statements for me, the evidence shows you're likely to get them wrong |
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| Pro Veritas | May 1 2018, 08:02 AM Post #36 |
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Please note the use of "?". It was a question NOT a statement. #Lrn2English All The Best Edited by Pro Veritas, May 1 2018, 08:54 AM.
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| Steve K | May 1 2018, 09:22 AM Post #37 |
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Once and future cynic
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It was an insinuation Lets try a parallel example. If I posted "Are you saying you are not a complete moron?" How would you see that? |
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| Pro Veritas | May 1 2018, 09:45 AM Post #38 |
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Well because the ONLY purpose of your example is to insinuate an insult I would see it for EXACTLY what it is. Whereas the question I asked could, in my opinion, be seen in two ways: 1) if you are a normal person, open to discussion and debate you'll see it as a question that perhaps merits an answer, or at least clarification; especially in light of your comment - "IIRC they can only require a specific ethnicity for serving staff (to maintain the restaurant theme for customers)" 2) if you are a special snowflake that sees any and all questions as a direct challenge to what little authority you do have you'll see it as an insinuation. I have ALWAYS said "read what I actually write, and not what you want me to have written" and I have also ALWAYS said that if I feel the need to insult someone I won't be spineless enough to insinuate anything, I'll just come out and say it. Happy now? All The Best Edited by Pro Veritas, May 1 2018, 09:47 AM.
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| Steve K | May 1 2018, 10:25 AM Post #39 |
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Once and future cynic
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Frankly PV with those further juvenile insinuations you are clearly in a nasty mood today and best ignored |
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| Pro Veritas | May 1 2018, 10:41 AM Post #40 |
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I'm in a great mood actually. Got two days off work, then three days on, then 5 days off. Most time I've had off over such a short period of time in 7 years. Looking forward to getting a few jobs done and some proper R&R - got some BBQ stuff on order from Tesco and a couple of bottles of wine, have some family over and kick back. When I'm in a nasty mood I tend to not post, because I know I may end up saying something I regret. All The Best |
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