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Multicultrism; Why is it not working to government plans ?
Topic Started: Apr 10 2018, 08:38 PM (1,165 Views)
gus
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Topic i originally posted on UK Debate 1, as the years have past since that post i see that my predictions have come true, at the time of my original posting i talked about those that did not wish to intergrate, with several ethnic community's refusing to intergrate, this has now grown to large towns, is it right that we should still invite those to our country that refuse to be part of the governments multicultreal society but choose those that are more compatible to Western living/ ideals and most of all, A Work Ethic, putting back into a system that has helped them...
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Jessamy Bride
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I think there are bigger problems than who works in a Chinese restaurant.

What about the large Asian enclaves in the North .... who have not integrated and are living parallel lives to the rest of us.?

Those whose first words to their newborns are.... "don't be like them"
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 10:48 AM
I think there are bigger problems than who works in a Chinese restaurant.

What about the large Asian enclaves in the North .... who have not integrated and are living parallel lives to the rest of us.?

Those whose first words to their newborns are.... "don't be like them"
Yes that's a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

But it's only one side of the problem. The other is those amongst the indigenous population who refuse to allow them to integrate.

It seems to me that too many people on both sides are happy to point the finger but refuse to acknowledge their own faults.
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Rich
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 10:48 AM
I think there are bigger problems than who works in a Chinese restaurant.

What about the large Asian enclaves in the North .... who have not integrated and are living parallel lives to the rest of us.?

Those whose first words to their newborns are.... "don't be like them"
What I don't get is the fact that we spent most of the Victorian era trying to coerce foreign countries to come round to our way of thinking, basically, imperialism and colonisation.

With future generations coming through in those countries the elders feared that their centuries old cultures were being forgotten and so rebellions ensued.

Fast forward to 2018 and what do we have, all those countries we tried to change cannot now wait to get here and enjoy the fruits of our open and free and welfare laden culture.

What seems to be forgotten is the fact that we are an Island and not a continent.

We have more than enough bods in this country and should they wish to avail themselves of our freedoms and beneficial ways then they must work to put into the pot otherwise it ain't going to work.
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Happy Hornet
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Rich
May 5 2018, 11:44 AM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 10:48 AM
I think there are bigger problems than who works in a Chinese restaurant.

What about the large Asian enclaves in the North .... who have not integrated and are living parallel lives to the rest of us.?

Those whose first words to their newborns are.... "don't be like them"
What I don't get is the fact that we spent most of the Victorian era trying to coerce foreign countries to come round to our way of thinking, basically, imperialism and colonisation.

With future generations coming through in those countries the elders feared that their centuries old cultures were being forgotten and so rebellions ensued.

Fast forward to 2018 and what do we have, all those countries we tried to change cannot now wait to get here and enjoy the fruits of our open and free and welfare laden culture.

What seems to be forgotten is the fact that we are an Island and not a continent.

We have more than enough bods in this country and should they wish to avail themselves of our freedoms and beneficial ways then they must work to put into the pot otherwise it ain't going to work.
Hang on a second, are the immigrants sponging off us or are they taking all our jobs?

Surely they can't be doing both?
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 10:48 AM
I think there are bigger problems than who works in a Chinese restaurant.

What about the large Asian enclaves in the North .... who have not integrated and are living parallel lives to the rest of us.?

Those whose first words to their newborns are.... "don't be like them"
Oh you were there at the births were you? Please explain otherwise it's just going to look like you posted something you heard from the man at the chip shop
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Jessamy Bride
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Well I was waxing lyrical to illustrate my point.
.......but it is something that is said to children and is not particularly helpful to integration.

I live in the North and see problems (from both sides) with immigration all the time.

I'm not sitting in an ivory tower ... spouting about what other people should-and-should-not-be doing
with the mantra "We don't like what is being said, therefore it doesn't exist"

The vast majority of the population are not racist in this country.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 12:39 PM

.......but it is something that is said to children and is not particularly helpful to integration.
Neither are sweeping generalisations about asians.
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Steve K
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Happy Hornet
May 5 2018, 12:43 PM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 12:39 PM

.......but it is something that is said to children and is not particularly helpful to integration.
Neither are sweeping generalisations about asians.
Exactly

When exaggerations and especially their stereotyping form are prevalent, then we live in dangerous times

I note that Jessamy couldn't even apologise for posting an appalling one, just seems to say she thinks it was justified to so try and misinform in order to unduly influence by false instrument.

Disgusting



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Happy Hornet
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Steve K
May 5 2018, 01:02 PM
Happy Hornet
May 5 2018, 12:43 PM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 12:39 PM

.......but it is something that is said to children and is not particularly helpful to integration.
Neither are sweeping generalisations about asians.
Exactly

When exaggerations and especially their stereotyping form are prevalent, then we live in dangerous times

I note that Jessamy couldn't even apologise for posting an appalling one, just seems to say she thinks it was justified to so try and misinform in order to unduly influence by false instrument.

Disgusting



Some people never seem to see the irony in going out of the way to alienate people then complain about a lack of integration.

It's a serious issue but it's often not taken seriously because it's so frequently hijacked by people who just use it as a stick to bash immigrants and ethnic minorities over the head with.
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Jessamy Bride
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No...."dangerous times"... are when we can't see or appreciate what is going on right in front of our noses.... because we are removed from it, or can't be bothered
(It results in things like a Brexit vote which no-one foresaw)
Who cares what goes on "OOp North"... most of those places are shite holes anyway.

Well its about time those difficult questions were tackled...don't you think?
without someone swooning from the indignity ever five minutes.



and.......... "swooning from the indignity every five minutes" is a figure of speech from my own keyboard so don't ask for a link.



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Rich
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 03:49 PM
No...."dangerous times"... are when we can't see or appreciate what is going on right in front of our noses.... because we are removed from it, or can't be bothered
(It results in things like a Brexit vote which no-one foresaw)
Who cares what goes on "OOp North"... most of those places are shite holes anyway.

Well its about time those difficult questions were tackled...don't you think?
without someone swooning from the indignity ever five minutes.



and.......... "swooning from the indignity every five minutes" is a figure of speech from my own keyboard so don't ask for a link.



Keep faith JB, everyone is entitled to voice their opinions here and yours are just as important and relevant as anyone else's, if we all agreed on everything there would be no point of the forum. :thumbsup:

Please keep up the good work, I do hope my thread regarding teachers does not offend you.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 03:49 PM
No...."dangerous times"... are when we can't see or appreciate what is going on right in front of our noses.... because we are removed from it, or can't be bothered
(It results in things like a Brexit vote which no-one foresaw)
Who cares what goes on "OOp North"... most of those places are shite holes anyway.

Well its about time those difficult questions were tackled...don't you think?
without someone swooning from the indignity ever five minutes.



and.......... "swooning from the indignity every five minutes" is a figure of speech from my own keyboard so don't ask for a link.



Well I wouldn't say I'm far removed from it, I'm married to an asian and I've never heard of this phrase they supposedly say to their babies when they are born.

There is only one way ordinary people like us can help social unity and that's to practice it ourselves.

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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
yours are just as important and relevant as anyone else

Thanks Rich... I don't get offended.. btw
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
There is only one way ordinary people like us can help social unity and that's to practice it ourselves


Sure ... I have all sorts of kids in front of me every day.... and they are just kids, the same all over.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:13 PM
Quote:
 
There is only one way ordinary people like us can help social unity and that's to practice it ourselves


Sure ... I have all sorts of kids in front of me every day.... and they are just kids, the same all over.
That's good.

May I also suggest checking your sources, spreading nasty, unsubstantiated rumours about asians really isn't going to help.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
spreading nasty, unsubstantiated rumours about asians


Does that cut both ways?
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:21 PM
Quote:
 
spreading nasty, unsubstantiated rumours about asians


Does that cut both ways?
Of course, if there was an asian poster spreading nasty, unfounded rumours about white people I'd be saying the exact same thing to them.
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Steve K
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Happy Hornet
May 5 2018, 04:16 PM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:13 PM
Quote:
 
There is only one way ordinary people like us can help social unity and that's to practice it ourselves


Sure ... I have all sorts of kids in front of me every day.... and they are just kids, the same all over.
That's good.

May I also suggest checking your sources, spreading nasty, unsubstantiated rumours about asians really isn't going to help.
Well doing the same about Jews worked a treat for getting Hitler into power. And look how well that turned out. What was it, 60 million dead?

People who are too damn lazy to realise they are being offended by only a minority of those of different ethnicity/religion (or just plain hateful) so they go on with broadbrush statements damming all should wake up and realise the hate and danger they perpetuate

And no Rich it isn't fine, it's evil and at times illegal so yes there are limits on free speech where it causes harm
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Jessamy Bride
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Well why hasn't it been discussed and resolved?
Unresolved issues fester worse when they get swept under the carpet.

There is another facility had the go ahead in Bradford today
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/16205730.Grade_II_listed_office_building_set_to_become_Islamic_education_facility/

“fill the vacuum when it comes to the provision of quality Islamic education for girls/women.”

Annoys me actually.... Why aren't women allowed to mix with other women of different colours and creeds?
Why are they being kept separate from the rest of society?
How can it be guaranteed that they are getting access to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else............ when they are being segregated like this.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:45 PM
Well why hasn't it been discussed and resolved?
Unresolved issues fester worse when they get swept under the carpet.

There is another facility had the go ahead in Bradford today
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/16205730.Grade_II_listed_office_building_set_to_become_Islamic_education_facility/

“fill the vacuum when it comes to the provision of quality Islamic education for girls/women.”

Annoys me actually.... Why aren't women allowed to mix with other women of different colours and creeds?
Why are they being kept separate from the rest of society?
How can it be guaranteed that they are getting access to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else............ when they are being segregated like this.
Well if it's being reported in a newspaper it isn't being brushed under the carpet is it?

I don't agree with faith schools of any kind personally.
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:45 PM
Well why hasn't it been discussed and resolved?
Unresolved issues fester worse when they get swept under the carpet.

There is another facility had the go ahead in Bradford today
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/16205730.Grade_II_listed_office_building_set_to_become_Islamic_education_facility/

“fill the vacuum when it comes to the provision of quality Islamic education for girls/women.”

Annoys me actually.... Why aren't women allowed to mix with other women of different colours and creeds?
Why are they being kept separate from the rest of society?
How can it be guaranteed that they are getting access to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else............ when they are being segregated like this.
Well are you saying there are no single sex schools in the non Islamic education system? You'd be wrong if you did

As for that facility you mention it appears to be using no state funds and be for adults so in a world where we allow all male clubs why is this any different?

You certainly will not get integration if we try and persecute ethnic groups by micromanaging their lives but not same for those outside those groups. You will just breed trouble.

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Oddball
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 10:48 AM
I think there are bigger problems than who works in a Chinese restaurant.

What about the large Asian enclaves in the North .... who have not integrated and are living parallel lives to the rest of us.?

Those whose first words to their newborns are.... "don't be like them"
Well, granted there are two areas of Sheffield, where I feel like it is me who is the 'ethnic other/outsider', and to sit in the waiting rooms of one of the main hospitals it is easy to get the same feeling among the patients. Just saying.
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Rich
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Oddball
May 5 2018, 05:06 PM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 10:48 AM
I think there are bigger problems than who works in a Chinese restaurant.

What about the large Asian enclaves in the North .... who have not integrated and are living parallel lives to the rest of us.?

Those whose first words to their newborns are.... "don't be like them"
Well, granted there are two areas of Sheffield, where I feel like it is me who is the 'ethnic other/outsider', and to sit in the waiting rooms of one of the main hospitals it is easy to get the same feeling among the patients. Just saying.
One wonders what Jeremy and his acolytes would make of one of this country's most loved songstress and all of her chums and colleagues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I2cG-ed6hw

This is the sort of ethnicity that enriches my country.
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Oddball
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Rich - That dates you, and me for that matter - such a rich tone to her voice - and a powerful set of lungs. !clp! :thumbsup:
Edited by Oddball, May 5 2018, 07:21 PM.
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Jessamy Bride
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Steve K
May 5 2018, 04:54 PM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:45 PM
Well why hasn't it been discussed and resolved?
Unresolved issues fester worse when they get swept under the carpet.

There is another facility had the go ahead in Bradford today
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/16205730.Grade_II_listed_office_building_set_to_become_Islamic_education_facility/

“fill the vacuum when it comes to the provision of quality Islamic education for girls/women.”

Annoys me actually.... Why aren't women allowed to mix with other women of different colours and creeds?
Why are they being kept separate from the rest of society?
How can it be guaranteed that they are getting access to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else............ when they are being segregated like this.
Well are you saying there are no single sex schools in the non Islamic education system? You'd be wrong if you did

As for that facility you mention it appears to be using no state funds and be for adults so in a world where we allow all male clubs why is this any different?

You certainly will not get integration if we try and persecute ethnic groups by micromanaging their lives but not same for those outside those groups. You will just breed trouble.

This is religious education for adult women.

What on earth for?

Why does someone not stand up to say ... that in a time where the area has received a lot of National funding to improve integration ..its really not ok to marginalise Women this way.

I'm descended from suffragettes....females have fought long and hard for a bit of equality ...... and we are not there yet.

This is ridiculous medieval shite. ... but we can't say anything because it may "breed trouble"?

Its about time the town planners thought things through.

Quote:
 
Well are you saying there are no single sex schools in the non Islamic education system


Yes....... but they are more outlooking ... and having been here for a long time, they are better prepared to encourage students to be successful in modern World.

Having said that I'm not enamoured with religious education at all.... unless its fairly low key CofE






Edited by Jessamy Bride, May 5 2018, 09:43 PM.
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 09:33 PM
Steve K
May 5 2018, 04:54 PM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:45 PM
Well why hasn't it been discussed and resolved?
Unresolved issues fester worse when they get swept under the carpet.

There is another facility had the go ahead in Bradford today
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/16205730.Grade_II_listed_office_building_set_to_become_Islamic_education_facility/

“fill the vacuum when it comes to the provision of quality Islamic education for girls/women.”

Annoys me actually.... Why aren't women allowed to mix with other women of different colours and creeds?
Why are they being kept separate from the rest of society?
How can it be guaranteed that they are getting access to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else............ when they are being segregated like this.
Well are you saying there are no single sex schools in the non Islamic education system? You'd be wrong if you did

As for that facility you mention it appears to be using no state funds and be for adults so in a world where we allow all male clubs why is this any different?

You certainly will not get integration if we try and persecute ethnic groups by micromanaging their lives but not same for those outside those groups. You will just breed trouble.

This is religious education for adult women.

What on earth for?

Why does someone not stand up to say ... that in a time where the area has received a lot of National funding to improve integration ..its really not ok to marginalise Women this way.

I'm descended from suffragettes....females have fought long and hard for a bit of equality ...... and we are not there yet.

This is ridiculous medieval shite. ... but we can't say anything because it may "breed trouble"?

Its about time the town planners thought things through.

Quote:
 
Well are you saying there are no single sex schools in the non Islamic education system


Yes....... but they are more outlooking ... and having been here for a long time, they are better prepared to encourage students to be successful in modern World.

Having said that I'm not enamoured with religious education at all.... unless its fairly low key CofE






I agree with all that but I could say very similar things about the Catholic Church, the Mormoms, Scientologists etc etc too. Even the Salvation Army was very non integrational well up to the turn of the century

The way to increase integration is not going to be by harassing harmless people either to their face or by proxy. Ending state funded religious aligned education and the realities of the need for families to be dual income will be the big breakers down of barriers

Just don't expect it all to be fixed by half past October
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 09:33 PM
Steve K
May 5 2018, 04:54 PM
Jessamy Bride
May 5 2018, 04:45 PM
Well why hasn't it been discussed and resolved?
Unresolved issues fester worse when they get swept under the carpet.

There is another facility had the go ahead in Bradford today
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/16205730.Grade_II_listed_office_building_set_to_become_Islamic_education_facility/

“fill the vacuum when it comes to the provision of quality Islamic education for girls/women.”

Annoys me actually.... Why aren't women allowed to mix with other women of different colours and creeds?
Why are they being kept separate from the rest of society?
How can it be guaranteed that they are getting access to the same rights and freedoms as everyone else............ when they are being segregated like this.
Well are you saying there are no single sex schools in the non Islamic education system? You'd be wrong if you did

As for that facility you mention it appears to be using no state funds and be for adults so in a world where we allow all male clubs why is this any different?

You certainly will not get integration if we try and persecute ethnic groups by micromanaging their lives but not same for those outside those groups. You will just breed trouble.

This is religious education for adult women.

What on earth for?

Why does someone not stand up to say ... that in a time where the area has received a lot of National funding to improve integration ..its really not ok to marginalise Women this way.

I'm descended from suffragettes....females have fought long and hard for a bit of equality ...... and we are not there yet.

This is ridiculous medieval shite. ... but we can't say anything because it may "breed trouble"?

Its about time the town planners thought things through.

Quote:
 
Well are you saying there are no single sex schools in the non Islamic education system


Yes....... but they are more outlooking ... and having been here for a long time, they are better prepared to encourage students to be successful in modern World.

Having said that I'm not enamoured with religious education at all.... unless its fairly low key CofE






If adult women choose to pursue religious education shouldn't they be allowed to?

Saying to women that they should only act in a way that meets your approval doesn't sound like something the suffragettes would have approved of.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
If adult women choose to pursue religious education shouldn't they be allowed to?


We have a section of society where women walk around in burkas ... ie completely dressed in black cloth with only a little opening for the eyes (in the name of religious piety)
whilst their husbands are wearing jeans and ray bans.

The Women think they are exercising religious freedom but its a mistake in a Western country.

Not only does it subjugate ...but what it does, is render the women untouchable and holier than everyone else....... whilst the rest of us, just going about our ordinary lives are seen by the men of that order.... as slags.

This isn't freedom.... Its wrong on so many levels.... and not something I would ever accept is right in Western country where woman have spent a century are striving for equality.

The burka clad women interviewed from this "School"...... and rows of attentive young girls in coloured headscarves is not something that belongs here.
Its setting us back to square one.

What fills me with alarm.. is the thought that some women could be encouraged to go to this "School".......... because their husbands or mothers in law don't think they are pious or subservient enough.

3rd World nonsense............... and it has consequences.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 7 2018, 06:30 AM
Quote:
 
If adult women choose to pursue religious education shouldn't they be allowed to?


We have a section of society where women walk around in burkas ... ie completely dressed in black cloth with only a little opening for the eyes (in the name of religious piety)
whilst their husbands are wearing jeans and ray bans.

The Women think they are exercising religious freedom but its a mistake in a Western country.

Not only does it subjugate ...but what it does, is render the women untouchable and holier than everyone else....... whilst the rest of us, just going about our ordinary lives are seen by the men of that order.... as slags.

This isn't freedom.... Its wrong on so many levels.... and not something I would ever accept is right in Western country where woman have spent a century are striving for equality.

The burka clad women interviewed from this "School"...... and rows of attentive young girls in coloured headscarves is not something that belongs here.
Its setting us back to square one.

What fills me with alarm.. is the thought that some women could be encouraged to go to this "School".......... because their husbands or mothers in law don't think they are pious or subservient enough.

3rd World nonsense............... and it has consequences.
You haven't answered my question.

If adult women choose to take up religious education shouldn't they be allowed to?

If a woman chooses to wear a burqa, shouldn't she be allowed to?

Living in a free country means having to put up with things that you don't like.
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Jessamy Bride
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Jessamy Bride
May 7 2018, 06:30 AM
Quote:
 
If adult women choose to pursue religious education shouldn't they be allowed to?


We have a section of society where women walk around in burkas ... ie completely dressed in black cloth with only a little opening for the eyes (in the name of religious piety)
whilst their husbands are wearing jeans and ray bans.

The Women think they are exercising religious freedom but its a mistake in a Western country.

Not only does it subjugate ...but what it does, is render the women untouchable and holier than everyone else....... whilst the rest of us, just going about our ordinary lives are seen by the men of that order.... as slags.

This isn't freedom.... Its wrong on so many levels.... and not something I would ever accept is right in Western country where woman have spent a century are striving for equality.

The burka clad women interviewed from this "School"...... and rows of attentive young girls in coloured headscarves is not something that belongs here.
Those youngsters should be being prepared for life in a modern society, with all the opportunities that are available to them... and rights and freedoms that are rightfully theirs.

This is setting us back to square one.

What fills me with alarm.. is the thought that some women could be encouraged to go to this "School".......... because their husbands or mothers in law don't think they are pious or subservient enough.

3rd World nonsense............... and it has consequences.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 

If a woman chooses to wear a burqa, shouldn't she be allowed to?

Living in a free country means having to put up with things that you don't like.


No absolutely not.....

This isn't freedom.... Its a cage.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 7 2018, 06:41 AM
Quote:
 

If a woman chooses to wear a burqa, shouldn't she be allowed to?

Living in a free country means having to put up with things that you don't like.


No absolutely not.....

This isn't freedom.... Its a cage.
You deciding what people can wear and what they can study isn't freedom, it's dictatorship.
Edited by Happy Hornet, May 7 2018, 06:44 AM.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
Catholic Church, the Mormoms, Scientologists etc etc too. Even the Salvation Army


Any organisation that chooses to subjugate and not recognise freedom and equality for women....... Should change its tune and fit in with the modern word

or be forcibly closed under equality laws.
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Jessamy Bride
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You deciding what people can wear and what they can study isn't freedom, it's dictatorship.


Our society dictates that women have equal rights.
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 7 2018, 06:48 AM
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Catholic Church, the Mormoms, Scientologists etc etc too. Even the Salvation Army


Any organisation that chooses to subjugate and not recognise freedom and equality for women....... Should change its tune and fit in with the modern word

or be forcibly closed under equality laws.
Of course they should obey the laws of the land, but beyond that they should be free to do as they choose, regardless of how offensive you or anyone else finds it.

I've had to tolerate political parties campaigning to kick me and my family out of our own country. What makes you so special that you can't put up with things you don't like?
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Pro Veritas
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Jessamy Bride
May 7 2018, 06:50 AM
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You deciding what people can wear and what they can study isn't freedom, it's dictatorship.


Our society dictates that women have equal rights.
And if, in exercising those rights, a woman CHOOSES to wear burkha what then?

I absolutely 100% agree that no women should ever be forced, coerced, or bullied into wearing a burka, whether that is for religious, ethnic or cultural reasons.

But if a woman chooses to wear one, how are we even offering that woman equal rights by saying she can't?


For the record I think it should be OK for a woman to choose to wear burkha as long as it is OK for the rest of us to choose not to deal Doctors, Teachers etc that choose to wear them. Facial expressions are a key component of communication and trust, and being able to correctly ID someone in sensitive roles is important to professional integrity, privacy, trust and security.


All The Best
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Jessamy Bride
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free to do as they choose, regardless of how offensive you or anyone else finds it.

Women enjoy a lot of freedoms in this country that are not available in other parts of the World.

In certain parts of Afghanistan.... women have to stay in their houses and only go out in a burka because it the one thing that prevents them getting raped.
Girls aren't allowed to go to School at all.
That's how bad the unfettered patriarchal society mind-set can get.
Its how it was here a couple of centuries ago..... when being female meant marrying well.... because you had no money of your own .... or consigning yourself to a life of subservient drudgery at the behest of another person.

In Western countries women have been making progress. Its not perfect but it has been fought over ..... long and hard.

So yes......... I will call out anything I think has a shadow of subjugation.

Why on earth are women dressed head to to in black cloth ... whilst men aren't?
What part of "ridiculous" is so hard to understand?
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Happy Hornet
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Jessamy Bride
May 7 2018, 07:10 AM
Quote:
 
free to do as they choose, regardless of how offensive you or anyone else finds it.

Women enjoy a lot of freedoms in this country that are not available in other parts of the World.

In certain parts of Afghanistan.... women have to stay in their houses and only go out in a burka because it the one thing that prevents them getting raped.
Girls aren't allowed to go to School at all.
That's how bad the unfettered patriarchal society mind-set can get.
Its how it was here a couple of centuries ago..... when being female meant marrying well.... because you had no money of your own .... or consigning yourself to a life of subservient drudgery at the behest of another person.

In Western countries women have been making progress. Its not perfect but it has been fought over ..... long and hard.

So yes......... I will call out anything I think has a shadow of subjugation.

Why on earth are women dressed head to to in black cloth ... whilst men aren't?
What part of "ridiculous" is so hard to understand?
Dictating what women can and can't wear or what they can and can't learn about is subjugation.
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Jessamy Bride
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My answer was this PV

"Not only does it subjugate ...but what it does, is render the women untouchable and holier than everyone else....... whilst the rest of us, just going about our ordinary lives are seen by the men of that order.... as slags."
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C-too
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Pro Veritas
May 7 2018, 07:09 AM
Jessamy Bride
May 7 2018, 06:50 AM
Quote:
 
You deciding what people can wear and what they can study isn't freedom, it's dictatorship.


Our society dictates that women have equal rights.
And if, in exercising those rights, a woman CHOOSES to wear burkha what then?

I absolutely 100% agree that no women should ever be forced, coerced, or bullied into wearing a burka, whether that is for religious, ethnic or cultural reasons.

But if a woman chooses to wear one, how are we even offering that woman equal rights by saying she can't?

For the record I think it should be OK for a woman to choose to wear burkha as long as it is OK for the rest of us to choose not to deal Doctors, Teachers etc that choose to wear them. Facial expressions are a key component of communication and trust, and being able to correctly ID someone in sensitive roles is important to professional integrity, privacy, trust and security.


All The Best
I would only add that if a female during her childhood is led to own the emotional belief that she should wear the Burka, then many of them will as adults choose to were it.

IMO that is not necessarily freedom of choice. I find it difficult to believe that many females, knowing from early childhood that they had complete freedom of choice about wearing it, would choose to wear it.
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