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Is stealing wrong?
Topic Started: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:15 pm (1,032 Views)
osubeaver69
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Hayden be mine. <3

It's wrong, it's a crime.
If your greedy and stuff it's wrong.
But if you need food to survive, if your poor and starving, it's different IMO.
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drexlerfan11
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EViL2uCe
Nov 28 2007, 04:40 AM
drexlerfan11
Nov 28 2007, 04:27 AM
Evil2uce, do you think that the action can be deemed wrong in absolute no matter what the stealer thinks about his actions?

I'll be honest with you. I'm probably the worst person to ask that.

The friends I've collected in the past, the things I've seen ... I see out both windows.

But yes. By society YES it can be, and by law it IS deemed wrong, just depends on the perspective. There are those who see stealing as a means to an end as I said before. Those in society are those at the bottom of the barrel, who make minimum wage and make less than they think they should.

I know it's wrong, and I'll say it's wrong, but I can see why people do it.

Yes I understand fully. And sorry I edited my post, but this was my answer to the question.

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My answer to this question would be no because I dont think we can say why we oughtn't steal. When we say something is "WRONG," we are basically saying "I think that its wrong."


I think people should and do judge others according to their own values and beliefs just as you say. However, we can think that these people are bad, but that does not make them bad people. It's just how we perceive them.

Because society says that is bad, doesn't make it bad. That is appeal to majority. Basically, laws are subjective opinions and are only carried out as right and wrong because they are enforced by power. The government's opinion of whats right and wrong has more power than society's (even though in our society it is pretty much consistent with what society thinks) and especially the individual's. For example, Ted Bundy felt that murder to him was like us eating a ham sandwhich. Murder was good to him. However, the law eventually got him because it has power not because it is necessarily right.

I hope you see what I mean, and this is all my opinion of course. And I hope I have validated the worth of this thread.

----
And Rip, Jrmy, and OSU, you are telling me what stealing is not why one oughtn't do it.
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Infallable
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I don't break character until after the DVD commentary

One oughtn't steal because it's malignantly debilitating to others, which is pretty much the definition of things you oughtn't do.
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jrmycmpfan
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Keep cool my babies

What the hell is with the oughtn't uses everywhere?
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yankee242B
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I'm a lead farmer, motherf...

drexlerfan11
Nov 27 2007, 11:27 PM
How can you definitively say that something is wrong when you can't tell me why I oughtn't do it. You tell me what stealing is - taking someone elses property - but how does that make it wrong.

Evil2uce, do you think that the action can be deemed wrong in absolute no matter what the stealer thinks about his actions? My answer to this question would be no because I dont think we can say why we oughtn't steal. When we say something is "WRONG," we are basically saying "I think that its wrong."

I also hopes this make the point of this thread more clear.

I don't know how much clearer I can be about it. If something isn't yours, you have no right to it. You can't have it unless they willfully give it to you. That is why it is wrong -- you have no rightful claim to what is someone elses.

Again, would you want someone (or multiple someones) constantly taking what is rightfully yours?

I doubt you would.
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jrmycmpfan
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Keep cool my babies

He is just playing the devil's advocate and trying to get a discussion about a topic that cannot be proven wrong or right. You could really do this with any law.
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yankee242B
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I'm a lead farmer, motherf...

drexlerfan11
Nov 27 2007, 11:56 PM
I think people should and do judge others according to their own values and beliefs just as you say. However, we can think that these people are bad, but that does not make them bad people. It's just how we perceive them.

Because society says that is bad, doesn't make it bad. That is appeal to majority. Basically, laws are subjective opinions and are only carried out as right and wrong because they are enforced by power. The government's opinion of whats right and wrong has more power than society's (even though in our society it is pretty much consistent with what society thinks) and especially the individual's. For example, Ted Bundy felt that murder to him was like us eating a ham sandwhich. Murder was good to him. However, the law eventually got him because it has power not because it is necessarily right.

I hope you see what I mean, and this is all my opinion of course. And I hope I have validated the worth of this thread.

----
And Rip, Jrmy, and OSU, you are telling me what stealing is not why one oughtn't do it.

You need to go to college. This is all very ignorant.

To say that laws are subjective is only half right. Laws are made based on the majority values and beliefs. Sure, there will be some that don't feel the exact same way, but guess what. Most societies and cultures believe that stealing is wrong -- most religions (if not all) forbid it either explicitly or implicitly.

The reason is because it is an inherently bad or hurtful action/behavior. Stealing something from someone hurts the person because they worked for it, whatever it may be.

Your example of Ted Bundy doesn't really help. He's the very small minority. That means if his actions are detrimental or in contrary to the majority, no matter how "normal" he feels they are, he will be punished for them.

Again, stealing (and murder/canibalism in Bundy's case) hurt the individual as well as society as a whole.
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Bigrussmooney
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This thread was obviously started by a giant douche. Forget the college thing, I've never been to college and technically don't have to, and I still feel that if you take something because "I'm a fucking retard and don't see how it's not ok" (which is basically the only way he ever explained himself) then you should be shot in the face. Bottom line is someone else took the time and effort out of their own lives to earn something they wanted/needed or otherwise. Your only justification for depriving them of such is the fact you were raised with no morals and feel you're entitled to other people's belongings. Which means you should be shot in the face as well.
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drexlerfan11
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Ya, I was playing devil's advocate in the beginning as that is obviously not how I view stealing, but it was in an effort to lead to a point which I am serious about.

And Yankee, you are still explaining to me what stealing is. I know exactly what you're saying, but you're not telling me why stealing is wrong, you are telling me what it is. I am taking something that I dont have a right to - that is the difinition of stealing. The idea that Infallable proposed would be that the act is wrong in itself which is what you are saying as well. "Stealing is wrong because you are harming someone" or "Murder is wrong ecause you are killing someone." But WHY is that wrong. If the thing is wrong in itself I would just ask how do you know that and who made that definition. And I would assume the response would be that God said it. In which case I would say, "Life is so mysterious and interesting!"


If you want my real opinnion on stealing it is this: I am not saying that it is wrong----- I am saying that in my opinion it is wrong. Now, as to my answer why I BELIEVE it is wrong I would say "because if everyone stole than there would be no true possessions." This is what you said earlier and this is also what Immanuel Kant would say I think. And according to this I would say that no matter how poor you are I would look to your stealing as an unrespectable action yet I could still have sympathy for one who commits the action depending on their economic status or whatever their disorder may be. My judging of the stealer would be relative to the situation.
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BlindDeafandMute
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Long Live Pink Shoes!

Did I miss something or was I making this point already in the 2 girls 1 cup thread?

Morality and rights are ideas, all of them, with no exception. Being as they are ideas they are subjective, and can be seen differently through different perspectives.

One might say stealing is wrong because it is taking away something that someone has earned.

Another might say, there is no such thing as stealing because there is no such thing as property. That everything on earth was made for everyone to share and no paper can change that.

Stealing being right or wrong is an issue of morality, thus can never be proven or disproven factually. Though society, at least ours, has set itself up to base it's morality on the common beliefs of the people(how effectively it does that is debatable).

Morality is not real, but it is necessary, without a common strand of right and wrong there would be chaos. People are evolved enough to use reason, reason is what Aristotle believes is our essence, one of the things that distinguishes us as humans. Through reason people have come together to set boundaries on human action to sustain order.

Stealing is morally wrong in our society as reflected by law, whether stealing is ultimately wrong is as I said subjective.
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