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Is stealing wrong?
Topic Started: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:15 pm (1,031 Views)
drexlerfan11
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^^^ there you go
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yankee242B
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I'm a lead farmer, motherf...

drexlerfan11
Nov 28 2007, 01:07 AM
I know exactly what you're saying, but you're not telling me why stealing is wrong, you are telling me what it is. I am taking something that I dont have a right to - that is the difinition of stealing. The idea that Infallable proposed would be that the act is wrong in itself which is what you are saying as well. "Stealing is wrong because you are harming someone" or "Murder is wrong ecause you are killing someone." But WHY is that wrong.

I guess you're not into reading, so here it is, once again:

The reason is because it is an inherently bad or hurtful action/behavior. Stealing something from someone hurts the person because they worked for it, whatever it may be.

Your example of Ted Bundy doesn't really help. He's the very small minority. That means if his actions are detrimental or in contrary to the majority, no matter how "normal" he feels they are, he will be punished for them.


If you steal something, you deprive them of using/owning it, without right to doing so. Is this really that hard to get?

If you kill/murder someone, you deprive them of living their life. Everyone has the right to live and no person has the right to deprive them of it.

The fact that these two (and many, many more) things are deemed wrong by probably ever culture on the planet tells you right there why they are wrong: no one would want to be denied living or their right to ownership of their own things. Still with me?
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Bigrussmooney
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Regardless of if it's paper or not, it's yours. It has value, and regardless of if that's value in itself or value in the time/effort you put into it, it's still value. To say it's paper and worthless which means everyone has the right to everything because it's all made from the same things makes no sense in the fact you're not stealing a big hunk of metal, or abunch of paper, or food. You're stealing effort, and time that someone else doesn't have the luxury of giving up freely. If they did, they wouldn't own the possessions to begin with.
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BlindDeafandMute
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Long Live Pink Shoes!

What are you referring to? I'm not debating that stealing is right, in my opino it is wrong, but all I'm saying is rights/morals are not factual only ideas, in some cases social agreements.

I just used one example of a belief system that doesn't believe in property, that everything is communal and should be used only to benefit the greatest number of people. Not saying that's what I believe, just using it as a example of how morality/rights are subjective and non-factual.
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KRS-One
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So long, and thanks for all the fish...

Prince_RIP
Nov 27 2007, 11:34 PM
stealing is indeed wrong.

drexler, anything that takes away from someone else only for your own personal gain is wrong. Anything that only affects you is debatable on the ethics of it.

You're still avoiding the question. Can you definitively prove that stealing is wrong?

And nothing against yankee242B, but his argument is not valid. To say something is "inherently wrong" means nothing. Perhaps to you, it is inherently wrong to steal, but to others it may not be. And there is no way possible either of you could be proven right or wrong.

As I said, the only things that are absolutely wrong are murder and rape (actually, I did say property, too...but after spending some time thinking about it, I'm not so sure), because you do have a right to your own life and body, definitely, for sure. If you didn't have a right to control those, then they wouldn't be your life and body. Property, on the other hand, can be argued as to whether it truly belongs to you or not. Sure, you might've paid a lot of money for a new car, but to some, it might belong to the people who made the car.

It's like the Dwarfs in The Hobbit, regardless of what anyone paid for Dwarf-wrought tools, they believe that the tools will always rightfully belong to them, since they made them.
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Bigrussmooney
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See, now this leads me to believe you haven't had alot of things stolen from you in your life. You have just as much right to your property as you do your own personal life. It's YOURS. The whole point in it being called YOURS is because you own it. You own both of them. I own my left arm, and if someone takes it then they're prepared to die over my left arm. You try to take my vehicle and I'm anywhere around you, I suppose you'll be faced with the same consequence.
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KRS-One
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So long, and thanks for all the fish...

I have had things stolen from me. And, in my opinion, stealing is wrong.

This thread is about the theoretical/philosophical side to it.
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yankee242B
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I'm a lead farmer, motherf...

How about this: It is wrong because we, as a majority in a society (in this case, the world) have decided and agreed that it is wrong.

Better?
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Prince_RIP
Official Forum B.A.

KRS-One
Nov 28 2007, 08:09 AM
Prince_RIP
Nov 27 2007, 11:34 PM
stealing is indeed wrong.

drexler, anything that takes away from someone else only for your own personal gain is wrong. Anything that only affects you is debatable on the ethics of it.

You're still avoiding the question. Can you definitively prove that stealing is wrong?

And nothing against yankee242B, but his argument is not valid. To say something is "inherently wrong" means nothing. Perhaps to you, it is inherently wrong to steal, but to others it may not be. And there is no way possible either of you could be proven right or wrong.

As I said, the only things that are absolutely wrong are murder and rape (actually, I did say property, too...but after spending some time thinking about it, I'm not so sure), because you do have a right to your own life and body, definitely, for sure. If you didn't have a right to control those, then they wouldn't be your life and body. Property, on the other hand, can be argued as to whether it truly belongs to you or not. Sure, you might've paid a lot of money for a new car, but to some, it might belong to the people who made the car.

It's like the Dwarfs in The Hobbit, regardless of what anyone paid for Dwarf-wrought tools, they believe that the tools will always rightfully belong to them, since they made them.

Ok, then who says that you have a right to your body and life??? By your logic, your parents could possibly think it belongs to them, since they brought you into this world.

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drexlerfan11
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yankee242B
Nov 28 2007, 07:19 PM
How about this: It is wrong because we, as a majority in a society (in this case, the world) have decided and agreed that it is wrong.

Better?

no, its not a sound argument at all.
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