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Strange Play
Topic Started: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:30 pm (82 Views)
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Yesterday, with Juan Pierre on second and Andre Ethier on third with one out vs. the Dbacks, Randy Wolf lined back to Dan Harren, the pitcher. Harren grabbed the liner and threw back to Felipe Lopez, the 2nd baseman. Lopez could have tagged the bag before Pierre got back but decided to tag Pierre out instead. Pierre was standing still but in the meantime Ethier crossed Home Plate, even though he didn't tag up ater the catch.

The umpires awarded the Dodgers a run. Meanwhile, the Dbacks left the field thinking they were out of the inning.

Torre came out to make sure the run counted and, apparently was assured that it was. When Bob Melvin came out to protest he was apparently told that, because the Dbacks left the field before the play was actually called, it was too late to protest.

Strange. I don't think I've ever seen that. In fact, I'm not sure I even understand it. (famous shrug)
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I could be mistaken, but I think that in terms of a player not tagging up, it is up to the fielding team to appeal. If they do not appeal, there is no call to make, and any advance bases the runner achieves are counted.

So basically, a player could leave ten seconds early, but if no appeal is made at the base where he left, he is safe, wherever he ends up.
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CincinnatiRep
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What was Melvin going to protest?
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WU Beachbum
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That Ethier didn't tag up.
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Ethier was running on contact, and he crossed the plate before Pierre was tagged out. The Diamondbacks left the field, apparently thinking the run didn't count.

But the umpires said it did after meeting with Dodgers manager Joe Torre and Arizona manager Bob Melvin - and by then it was too late for the Diamondbacks to appeal that Ethier had failed to tag up. Had they done so, they would have recorded a fourth out and erased the run.


"They could have gotten the fourth out with an appeal at third base, but they didn't do that before leaving the field," umpire Charlie Reliford told a pool reporter. "We had about six rules involved here."

Torre's bench coach, Bob Schaefer, knew the rule, and he pointed it out to Torre as the play unfolded.

"When it happened, Bob Schaefer said, 'That's the four-out play,"' Torre said.

Reliford said the run wouldn't have counted if Lopez had stepped on second instead of tagging Pierre.

"If (Lopez) had touched the bag, and we determined that that was an unmistakable act of an appeal, the run wouldn't have counted," Reliford said. "The extra time it took Lopez to tag the runner allowed the run to score."

Melvin did not argue the decision.

"They did get it right," Melvin said. "That is the call: if you tag the runner at second, you have to go to appeal before you come off the field to get the runner at third."
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WU Beachbum
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The question is why did Lopez go for the tag instead of the force out?
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WU Beachbum
Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:34 pm
The question is why did Lopez go for the tag instead of the force out?
Because he is what he is.

That was the question I asked myself immediately. He was two steps from the bag and about 10 steps from the runner.

Some players, frankly, aren't really all that smart.
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CincinnatiRep
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WU Beachbum
Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:34 pm
The question is why did Lopez go for the tag instead of the force out?
I would guess because he isn't to bright.

This play kinda reminds me of a situation I have had in the past as an umpire. Some coaches think that getting an out on a player who is off the bag in a line drive situation similar to above or a fly ball situation where the runner is out because the throw beat him back to the bag is a force out and thus no runs should score regardless if the runner scored prior to the third out.

A force out can only occur on a player advancing to a base and not retreating. Don't let anyone tell you different.
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WU Beachbum
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Thomas Boswell wrote about a play somewhat similar to this in Cuba that nearly became a quadruple play.
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CincinnatiRep
Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:37 pm
WU Beachbum
Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:34 pm
The question is why did Lopez go for the tag instead of the force out?
I would guess because he isn't to bright.

This play kinda reminds me of a situation I have had in the past as an umpire. Some coaches think that getting an out on a player who is off the bag in a line drive situation similar to above or a fly ball situation where the runner is out because the throw beat him back to the bag is a force out and thus no runs should score regardless if the runner scored prior to the third out.

A force out can only occur on a player advancing to a base and not retreating. Don't let anyone tell you different.
Yep. I'm still confused on what Melvin was protesting? How could a ML manager (and ballplayer) not know that's not a force out? I guess I could understand a player (barely), but not a manager.
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