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Experience System
Topic Started: Jan 15 2015, 11:09 AM (591 Views)
Rudiger Blumenthal
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Methuselah
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I 100% agree with that and I'm glad it was pointed out. But what about the Mentors who truly love their Childe and want to help out whenever possible, and aren't in a different country? Most of our characters have either completely separated their ties with their sires, or their sires are in a different country/region... but not all. Jackie is the Mentor I'm thinking of when I say this.

It should also be noted that Mentors aren't necessarily the sires. If Helena wants to act as a mentor for Amelia in Amelia's pursuit of obtaining a capable retainer, Helena could help her choose a suitable target, help her understand how the blood bonding process works, etc. Even a sparring partner could act, in technical terms, as a mentor.

New idea: to apply for the Mentorship cooldown reduction, the IC Roleplay phase MUST involve the Mentor in question. If the Mentor is the sire and the sire is known to be grumpy, then you'd have to make it believable as to why they would help you.

Edited by Rudiger Blumenthal, Jan 27 2015, 09:12 AM.
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Aiden North
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Childe
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At the moment I think there is a variety of clans that are in the setting, we have Brujah, Follower of Set, Gangrel, Malkavian, Toreador, Tremere and we did have one Giovanni.

So instead of these systems we seem to want to build for new/out of clan disciplines, there is already a variety of disciplines there. Perhaps the mentorship IC is not such a bad idea, and it creates plot hooks with in the player base. Creating RP just out of the need to advance knowledge in disciplines, potentially boons.

The RP end of things for the most part sounds like a good baseline to go from where disciplines are concerned, and avoiding solo threads where you just RP by yourself are to be avoided.

Rudi seems to of put a lot of effort into his idea which is good, it shows that people are thinking about how to improve things here at Twilight Voices. And it should be encouraged, for every player who has an idea for story, back end (how things are decided rewards etc) should not be scared or shy to voice them.

Merits: Businessman, Light Sleeper, Natural Leader, Nightsight
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Flaws: Cast No Reflection, Dangrous Secret, Driving Goal, Flashbacks, Nightmares
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Rudiger Blumenthal
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Thanks. Yeah, I'd like to have this work out for everyone.

I have to ask, though: are solo threads truly that bad? I do not see why. Let's face it, our characters won't be surrounded by others 24/7, and sometimes your own mini-mini-mini-storyline can be just as fun to write.
If you don't have any player-controlled Mentor to roleplay with, or your Mentor is the sire which isn't player controlled, why should you be inhibited from progress? If my character wanted to train Celerity on his own so others don't know about his powers why shouldn't he?

As long as you're active with the other players, I don't think solo threads should be discouraged.
Edited by Rudiger Blumenthal, Jan 27 2015, 09:42 AM.
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Aiden North
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I can see where you're coming from with individual character development, but you have to remember you're playing with in a group venue that promotes threads with other characters to further world or character plot. If you wanted to write personnel character stories you could do that without joining a board that functions with characters and sometimes NPC's.

The idea of own character progression inside his or her own thread isolates that character from their contemporaries, which in essence takes away from point of it being a group activity from a player perspective. Furthermore, this also a segway into god modding your character without actually experiencing in world events, therefore bypassing the totality of the reward system as a whole.

Rudiger Blumenthal
 
If you don't have any player-controlled Mentor to roleplay with, or your Mentor is the sire which isn't player controlled, why should you be inhibited from progress?


This is where your character needs to think outside the box and be creative with a solution to this obstacle, acquiring new disciplines or the progress of in clan disciplines isn't supposed to be so easy to obtain, hence why people commit diablerie as a quick work around to taking X amount years to learn said disciplines.

From the Vampire Masquerade V20 book point of view in clan disciplines are current rating x5, out of clan disciplines are current rating x7. I realise we don't use character sheets or award experience points in the same way but it quantifies how easy or difficult certain things are to obtain.

I propose that we use a point based system that is awarded on 3 month cycle, a maximum of 3 points to be awarded at each cycle, as this would reflect players involvement with in the setting. Furthermore, a cost system should be attributed to the buying of disciplines whether this be in clan or out of clan disciplines, however for certain out of clan disciplines a mentor plus the points are needed.
Merits: Businessman, Light Sleeper, Natural Leader, Nightsight
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Flaws: Cast No Reflection, Dangrous Secret, Driving Goal, Flashbacks, Nightmares
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Rudiger Blumenthal
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Methuselah
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Aiden North
 
I can see where you're coming from with individual character development, but you have to remember you're playing with in a group venue that promotes threads with other characters to further world or character plot. If you wanted to write personnel character stories you could do that without joining a board that functions with characters and sometimes NPC's.

Rudiger Blumenthal
 
As long as you're active with the other players, I don't think solo threads should be discouraged.


Aiden North
 
The idea of own character progression inside his or her own thread isolates that character from their contemporaries, which in essence takes away from point of it being a group activity from a player perspective. Furthermore, this also a segway into god modding your character without actually experiencing in world events, therefore bypassing the totality of the reward system as a whole.

To prevent god modding is exactly why, when you apply for a reward, the staff has to either accept or deny the post(s) you have created that facilitate your reward. This is, therefore, a moot point.

Aiden North
 
This is where your character needs to think outside the box and be creative with a solution to this obstacle, acquiring new disciplines or the progress of in clan disciplines isn't supposed to be so easy to obtain, hence why people commit diablerie as a quick work around to taking X amount years to learn said disciplines.

Why exactly should I ignore the obvious way to progress? How does that make any sense? I'll give you a hypothetical scenario: If I want to learn how to swim, why would I attempt to learn how to swim by talking about swimming with other people rather than learning how to swim by attempting to swim with a swimming teacher present? You are asking me to ignore common sense.

Aiden North
 
From the Vampire Masquerade V20 book point of view in clan disciplines are current rating x5, out of clan disciplines are current rating x7. I realise we don't use character sheets or award experience points in the same way but it quantifies how easy or difficult certain things are to obtain.

We've already agreed that out-of-clan Disciplines should be much harder to obtain.

Aiden North
 
I propose that we use a point based system that is awarded on 3 month cycle, a maximum of 3 points to be awarded at each cycle, as this would reflect players involvement with in the setting. Furthermore, a cost system should be attributed to the buying of disciplines whether this be in clan or out of clan disciplines, however for certain out of clan disciplines a mentor plus the points are needed.

I disagree. Isn't this pretty much the exact same system we've already been using? Where pretty much everyone, regardless of what activity their characters had done, received "XP" that they'd use for a reward? I think that if people want a reward, they should work for it by roleplaying IC and going through what they'd do to receive that reward. It promotes "think[ing] outside the box and be[ing] creative."

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Agatha Hall
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Elder
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I'm not sure if this idea's been raised before, but perhaps we might think about include rewards of Merits too?

Some Merits, sensibly, would perhaps be viewed as 'creation only' - but some might be awarded through rp too. Like the language merit, or various social merits, perhaps.

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Administrator
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Merits would definitely be a good addition to the reward system. Good call, Chrissie.

Edited by Administrator, Feb 2 2015, 02:28 AM.
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Rudiger Blumenthal
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I agree. Some merits should definitely be obtainable through roleplay. I believe languages can add a whole new dimension to roleplay (I have blatantly ripped off Agatha's idea and edited my own bio with the set of languages Rudi is fluent with). For example, Helena and Agatha may decide to speak in French so as to limit the amount of people who could understand what their conversation was about. The players themselves don't have to be necessarily fluent in the language, we could simply approach the issue as we approach Disciplines and add an asterisk and an explanation of what language is being used, when the language is not English.

With all that said, merits should probably be awarded at the staff's discretion. If Ramya overthrows the Tremere Regent, it is entirely justifiable for her to receive the Occult Library merit. Languages themselves are kind of tricky, since they require years to learn. Unless the character has a really good reason why they would want to study a specific language for hours on end, I don't think a new language should be awarded unless a very, very long time has passed.
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Administrator
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Just to give everyone an update...

This is still in the works. Sean and I will be meeting and talking about this in the near future (hopefully sooner rather than later now that his internet seems to be up and running again).

Until we have the hard and fast rules on what we're going to do, I think for the time being, we're going to use a 'loose' version of the ideas already mentioned.

Essentially - if you are looking to progress a character in a discipline level, you're going to have to post a solo story about it and PM staff about what you're looking to get.

The higher the level, the more information/detail shoud be in the post - or you can break it up into a couple of posts if you'd like.

The same goes for Merits/Backgrounds. If you're looking to obtain a new merit/flaw/background, go ahead and post about it and PM staff.

Disciplines easily obtainable: Physical (Celerity, Potence, Fortitude) and in-clan disciplines already known (So if you have Presence 2 and want to learn 3)

Less easy: In-clan disciplines that are unknown (so if you have no Presence, but are in Clan Toreador)

Mentor needed: Out of clan. Mentors can be NPCs or PCs - but contact needs to be made, deals struck. Mentors can also be reflective of the Background - so that might need to be obtained first.
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Rudiger Blumenthal
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Methuselah
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Cool! And no rush with the meeting between you two. We've all just received rewards, so it'll probably be best for a long time period to pass before we are allowed to do so again.

Alright, now for another thing I'd like to debate. :$

Physical Disciplines. They are not physical. Moving with Celerity isn't just moving faster, it's literally moving magically fast. Imagine you're moving with 5 dots in Celerity, faster than the speed of a bullet. You pick up a rock, and you throw that rock. That rock, once it escapes your hand, is moving with the same velocity as if it were thrown by a normal human. The laws of physics don't apply. It's not as flashy as Thaumaturgy, but it is just as magical.

Moving on. Potence. Potence is not just physical. If you picked up a carriage with Potence, you would completely crush your spine, but you don't. Again, physics don't apply. It's not as flashy as Thaumaturgy, but it is just as magical.

Fortitude. Higher levels of fortitude make you literally unable to be moved, protect you against light, and even remove/protect against bad effects such as depression, paranoia, confusion. It's not as flashy as Thaumaturgy, but it is just as magical.

Why would Pot/Cel/Fort be any easier to learn? All of them involve breaking the laws of physics. Calling them physical Disciplines isn't accurate, in my opinion.
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