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Experience System
Topic Started: Jan 15 2015, 11:09 AM (589 Views)
Helena Serieux
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Methuselah
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Yet all three of these powers can be learned by mortal ghouls, Rudi, and are commonly held by caitiff/pandas. I do get your points, but these disciplines have long been established by White Wolf as being the simplest to develop.
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Rudiger Blumenthal
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Ghouls start with Potence for some unknown reason that White Wolf never bothered to explain, but they are more likely to know any low level Disicpline of their Domitor, not just Cel/Fort. A Giovanni ghoul would be more likely to have Potence 1 and Necromancy 1 rather than Potence 1 and Celerity 1.

The fact that those three can be learned without a mentor is generally a house rule, from what I understand it, and isn't actually detailed in a core book. Learning them without a mentor or the need to be blood bonded is fine, but I don't think it should be any easier to learn when it comes to actual training.
Edited by Rudiger Blumenthal, Feb 14 2015, 03:01 PM.
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Ramya Nagarathna
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As per V:tM they are referred to as 'physical disciplines' in the same way that Dex/Str/Stam are Physical attributes.

"Three Disciplines — Celerity, Fortitude and Potence — are commonly called the Physical Disciplines because they directly enhance a vampire's physical abilities. Dots up to five in these Disciplines do not provide new powers like the other disciplines do. Instead, every new level is a steady increase in one specific capacity: Celerity increases the number of extra actions a character can take per round by spending blood (and, in 20th Anniversary, increases dexterity); Fortitude adds dice to resist damage; and Potence grants automatic successes to feats of strength. At the Storyteller's discretion the Physical Disciplines may be learned by all Cainites without training."

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Ramya Nagarathna
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And 'easier' in the sense that you don't need a mentor to learn them. You're kind of mincing words at this point, Rudi. :P
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Rudiger Blumenthal
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Yeah, I do that sometimes. :$

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Aiden North
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The disciplines Kim stated the physical disciplines Fortitude, Potence, Celerity are easier to acquire, but what we aren't doing on this board is having solo threads where characters make threads and just go write about what their doing and then boom Fortitude was learned for example. That boys and girls is not happening by any stretch and that is non negotiable.

Now if you want your characters to learn those physical disciplines then you can use your writing prowess to express this in threads with other players. Example if a Coterie was formed for some reason to investigate a Masquerade breach. You as a player could drop the Admin a message and say you're interested in learning Fortitude. So you're using the activity to attempt to unlock the secrets of Fortitude. But use your common sense don't go playing hero and diving in front of shot, because you maybe immortal but he or she is not impervious to damage and can die, stupidity is never rewarded (And yes that means final death which also means you have to write up another character).

If we can't come to some sort methodology that everyone agrees on, we may have to refer to the book and use the reward system from there. This means Admin would be dishing out reward experience points at the reward cycle, and players would have to save up those points to purchase said disciplines and possibly other things aswell.



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Rudiger Blumenthal
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Learning or advancing a Discipline should not be something easily done. You should investigate a Masq Breach because your character WANTS to investigate a Masq Breach, not because you get rewards for it.

In a thread dedicated to the Discipline (it doesn't have to be a solo thread, you can have training helpers/partners), it's a lot easier to describe how this new Discipline Level affects your character's mentality.
-Does it make your character less humane?
-Does it make your character more arrogant than he/she was before?
-Does the achievement feel like a Pyrrhic victory because they had to be blood bonded?
-Is the character hesitant to put himself in danger just to train Fortitude?
-Does your character freak out when they use Obf. 3 and they manage to imitate the physical characteristics of another human being? How does that affect their sense of individuality and self?
-How do they react to an ability that is very far removed from anything human-like?
etc etc etc.

"Character Development through Training."

Aiden North
 
If we can't come to some sort methodology that everyone agrees on, we may have to refer to the book and use the reward system from there. This means Admin would be dishing out reward experience points at the reward cycle, and players would have to save up those points to purchase said disciplines and possibly other things aswell.

You mean, almost exactly like how the old system worked? Where people got rewards for doing the grueling work of existing?

Whatever makes people comfortable, I guess.
Edited by Rudiger Blumenthal, Feb 14 2015, 11:13 PM.
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Aiden North
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The coterie was an example to try and get the point across, but it appears that ship has sailed. By the old system, you mean the current system because we haven't actually come to any finalisation of a system that we're going to use.

I'm starting to sway a little bit to using the books method for reward exp. At least that way its straight forward and you know what's available to regarding what can be purchased. The only downside is we might have to introduce character sheets.
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Rudiger Blumenthal
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I'm tired of you completely bypassing my arguments. I'm tired of you not bringing any solid, irrefutable argument to the table.

Whatever system you two choose is whatever system you two choose, but at least have the courtesy to address the ideas presented by others instead of refuting them without any sort of reasonable basis.
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Aiden North
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I believe you and I agreed on a few issues on the previous pages of this thread; one and two I believe to name the occasions. As for me bypassing your arguments and not bringing any irrefutable argument to the table, that there is you overlooking previous agreements we have had. Furthermore, you have actually agreed with some of the things I have said and suggested.

In regards to having the courtesy to address the ideas presented by others without reasonable basis, you need to understand bombarding the thread like a hammer hitting nail isn't going to get your point of view across any clearer.

I comment in this thread because there is plenty of reasonable basis to question suggestions made and I can't help but think you're not being entirely selfless when you suggest certain ideas, of which you have already benefited outside the rewards as well as from the current system. By this I refer to your request to have your character bio opened to add additional linguistic skills that weren't in the original submission, on the premise that you thought extra languages would be advantageous for your character. The general consensus is once submitted that is your character's history in its entirety and won't be opened six months down line when you realise you need a certain skill. Ideally you should have had your character study these additional languages and obtained them in character and therefore that would be a reward/advancement for your character, as previously stated by you regarding advancement.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and input but I don't think we're going to come to some mutual conclusion on which we both agree. So it's probably best if we leave it there before it gets out of hand.
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