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NHS care for the dying
Topic Started: Jul 15 2013, 05:45 PM (202 Views)
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Ministers have said they will abolish the Liverpool Care Pathway, following an independent review commissioned by Government which yesterday concluded that the controversial approach to end-of-life care had failed.

Too many patients have been left facing the desperate and “terrifying prospect” of spending their final hours thirsty, with nurses even shouting at families who tried to give their loved ones water, the review led by Baroness Julia Neuberger found.

A separate report by Prof Sir Bruce Keogh, the medical director for NHS England, will expose a history of failings at 14 hospital trusts with high death rates. One Tory MP claims Labour ministers received more than 1,500 alerts over the safety of care at those hospitals.

The Neuberger review heard evidence from relatives who had been forced to soak paper towels from bathroom dispensers in order to provide comfort to desperately thirsty patients who had been placed on the pathway.

The approach was supposed to mean that treatment could be stopped, if it would mean a more comfortable death, while food and drink could be withdrawn if dying patients did not want them. But the panel of experts said the pathway had been misused, which had distressed too many patients and their relatives.



Lady Neuberger said that although the review was set up specifically in order to examine the use of the pathway, it uncovered far more widespread failings in the treatment of the dying - especially at evenings and weekends.

She told The Telegraph: “If there isn’t expert palliative care available it can mean that dying aren’t given the drug that they need when the pain intensifies. It can be about patients left in distress, or suffering hallucinations without the help they need.”

Lady Neuberger said it made “no sense” that in most parts of the country, teams of doctors and nurses who are expert in care of the terminally-ill “shut up shop” at 5pm on a Friday, potentially leaving patients in agony for many days.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10181152/Callous-the-verdict-on-NHS-care-for-the-dying.html
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Tybee
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From all I've read and heard about the health care system in the UK, when it works it works very well. But when it fails, it can fail spectacularly. I think the biggest problem they have there is apathetic health care workers in some facilities. I don't know how well health care workers in the UK are paid, but from the articles I've read some instances of substandard care provided seem to be coming from people who are either overworked, underpaid, or incompetent. If the health care providers are not properly trained or supervised you're going to end up with tragedies that didn't need to happen. We seem to see these instances time and time again in the UK, but rarely do I read about things like this in Canada. That would seem to suggest the system in the UK needs to serious rework.
Edited by Tybee, Jul 16 2013, 04:30 AM.
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BenZ

OP= freeper fundie cunt
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BenZ you say the sweetest things. op
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Yes, OP. We get it. Only wealthy and upper middle class people deserve proper medical care. National healthcare should be dismantled. The poor should die slowly and painfully in their homes.

God, you people are tedious.
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Erna
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Some people are just better off dead!
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Tybee
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Many hospitals in the U.S. do a piss poor job when people are in the process of dying. They'll usually do their best to save your life, but once they decide there is no hope for the patient the doctors and nurses attitudes many times take a drastic turn into an "I don't have time for you anymore" mode. I saw that for myself when my father died, writhing in agony for hours with nurses refusing to administer the morphine his doctor had approved until I had to threaten them and the hospital with a lawsuit.
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That is terrible, Tybee.

My situation with my grandmother was the reverse. She went from assisted living to full on nursing home to lying in a hospital bed from Alzheimer's all within a few short months. Everyone was extremely helpful and comforting both to her and my inconsolable mother--right up until the very end. And my family is on the lower end of middle class, so these were not high end facilities.

I think it varies from location to location, and to use a bad experience here and there to justify throwing out baby with the bathwater and scrapping national health services altogether is ridiculous.

And that is what FFC OP was trying to suggest.
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Tybee
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The head nurse on duty in the ICU when my father's condition turned horrible in the middle of the night told me "I don't administer morphine unless the patient himself asks for it, even if the doctor has ordered it". At the time my father was literally out of his mind with pain and unable to even form a rational sentence, much less ask for medication. I told the fool nurse "woman, if you don't get the morphine started right now, by the time my lawyer is through with you and the administrator of this hospital you'll both be begging for morphine". She got the morphine started and within an hour he was dead, but at least he was out of pain.

Edited by Tybee, Jul 16 2013, 05:46 AM.
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Tybee
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I would never advocate throwing out any type of national health care system. Something is always better than nothing where health care is concerned. But it's obvious from all the articles we see that the health care system in the UK needs some serious retooling.
Edited by Tybee, Jul 16 2013, 05:46 AM.
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I don't believe in karma, but that nurse lady sounds like she deserves some.
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Erna
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We tried to commit suicide a couple of times when we were very young.

Thank God it did not work!
Edited by Erna, Jul 16 2013, 06:29 AM.
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MrsPatrickCampbell
Jul 16 2013, 06:23 AM
We tried to commit suicide a couple of times when we were very young.

Thank God it did not work!
God does not exist.
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Tybee
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Where is Mr. God when innocent people the world over are maimed, murdered, raped, savaged, and ravaged every single day. Is this all part of His grand plan? Religious loons will come back and say "the innocents who suffer all go to Heaven and have much better lives than they had here on earth, and those who aren't innocent go to Hell and burn for eternity" because God doesn't want them. Hmmm, the Bible says we're all equal in Mr. God's eyes and none of us is without sin. I guess that's all well and good until Mr. God has to feed your hungry ass once you sit at his dinner table for eternity.
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Erna
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Tybee
Jul 16 2013, 07:45 AM
Where is Mr. God when innocent people the world over are maimed, murdered, raped, savaged, and ravaged every single day. Is this all part of His grand plan? Religious loons will come back and say "the innocents who suffer all go to Heaven and have much better lives than they had here on earth, and those who aren't innocent go to Hell and burn for eternity" because God doesn't want them. Hmmm, the Bible says we're all equal in Mr. God's eyes and none of us is without sin. I guess that's all well and good until Mr. God has to feed your hungry ass once you sit at his dinner table for eternity.
It is part of karma.

The good or bad we experience in this life are the reflectia of the good or bad karmas that we performed in the past lives.
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MPC,

I am entertained by the way you mix and match tenets of different faiths to suit your worldview.

Because why the hell not? It's all lunacy anyway.
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U.S. Americans will have what they call Death Panels. Uh huh, that's right. Folks will decide if you deserve to live- you betcha!

-Sarah and Michelle, 2016

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Pollyanna Prisspot, School Marm
Jul 16 2013, 07:30 AM
MrsPatrickCampbell
Jul 16 2013, 06:23 AM
We tried to commit suicide a couple of times when we were very young.

Thank God it did not work!
God does not exist.
I believe in God too. I'm shocked that you do. With all that degenerate behavior you enegage in I thought you'd believe in the Devil instead! I believe that "karma" affects you in this life as well.
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Erna
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Yes, r18, Karma works in this life as well as the next.

We seem to experience karmic reactias very quickly in this life.
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r17 do you think since the IRS is going to handle Obamacare, it would be good to owe them quite a sum of money so they will make sure to keep a person alive? Or they will just cut their losses?
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