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Pat Robertson
Topic Started: Jan 10 2006, 03:59 PM (331 Views)
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Rock Star From Mars

I am not a Pat Robertson fan per se, never have been. He's always struck me as being a bit "oily." Perhaps he's a sincere, godly man, I do not know.

However, after having visiting the liberal site "People for the American Way" and reading their spin on the latest Robertson fiasco, I wanted to add my two cents.

The PFAW ("People for the American Way") asks on their page about the Robertson-Sharon fiasco,
  • "Decide for yourself. Was Pat Robertson “misquoted”?
Assuming that PFAW accurately recorded Robertson's words on their web page, I'd say no, they were perhaps not "misquoting" Robertson, but they are strongly implying things about him based upon those comments.

PFAW is attributing a view to Robertson that Robertson did not state out-right himself, but which he has only hinted at.

Robertson is accurate when he says he never directly said that he thinks God wanted to kill Israel's Sharon, or that Sharon's medical condition was due or might possibly be due, to God's displeasure over Sharon giving away Gaza.

What Robertson does in his original quote (and again, assuming that PFAW has recorded it correctly) is strongly imply that Sharon's medical problem is due to God's judgment over the Gaza give-away.

Robertson does this by mentioning something from the Old Testament of the Bible and by saying,
  • Now Ariel Sharon who again was a very likeable person, a delightful person to be with, I prayed with him personally, but here he’s at the point of death. He was dividing God’s land and I would say woe unto any Prime Minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the EU, the United Nations, or the United States of America. God says “this land belongs to me. You’d better leave it alone.”
PFAW is unhappy with Robertson's hinting at the issue (because, I believe like many liberals, they are trying to maintain the stereotype that all or most conservative Christians are unloving, overly-judgmental bigots, etc.), but Robertson is quite correct to state in today's episode of his The 700 Club program that he never point-blank said, "Ha ha, God put Sharon in the hospital for giving away Gaza."

Robertson only said something to the effect of, "Woe unto the Israeli leader who gives away Israeli land..."

I read Robertson's quotes at PFAW's site twice (and slowly and carefully) and no where did Robertson do what PFAW is claiming he did. Robertson may have implied it or hinted at it, but he did not say what PFAW is saying he did.

Very slick and disingenous on both the parts of Robertson and PFAW.

I thought PFAW's treatment of this was so dishonest - and it annoyed me so much - I used their online submission form to send them a message about it. I'm not holding my breath for a reply, though.
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maddyhater
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Robertson quotes

Pat Robertson has to be one of the scariest religious zealous in the US. It's a wonder he's not in daily contact with Bin Laden himself to compare notes. He describes over and over a hating God, a God that wants people killed. I don't believe that for one minute. I believe God, in whatever form people believe, is caring...understanding.... and forgiving. The religious leaders in almost every nation of the world spread hatred and skew biblical passages to support their own beliefs. It's no wonder why attendance to churches is plummeting, anyone that has a brain in their head isn't going to follow someone who tells them "if you don't believe what we believe, you are bad... going to hell.... and should be destroyed". Every time people ask me about my religious beliefs, I reference this.

MH
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Rock Star From Mars

So it's a couple of days later, and I haven't heard from "People for the American Way" in regards to my criticism of their web page on Robertson. I'm not surprised.

>>> EDIT

Still haven't heard from "People for the American Way."

I heard that Robertson had some business deal with people in Israel to make a Christian themed amusement park, and when they heard Robertson's comments about Sharon, they said 'forget it.' So now, Robertson has issued an apology.

I wonder if Robertson's motivation was over the business deal or what. Here's an article:

PAT ROBERTSON APOLOGIZES FOR REMARKS
  • January 13, 2006

    The reverend Pat Robertson has apologized for suggesting Ariel Sharon`s stroke was punishment from God. The founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network said last week the Israeli Prime Minister had divided God`s land.

    Robertson wrote a letter to Sharon`s son, asking for his forgiveness and the forgiveness of the Israeli people. Robertson also said he is now praying for Sharon`s full recovery. The 77-year-old Sharon suffered a massive stroke last week.
From Chicago Sun Times:
Robertson apologizes for remarks
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Rock Star From Mars

I agree with this guy (Bryan Fischer):

In Defense of Pat Robertson
  • by Bryan Fischer

    [quoting Pat Robertson:]
    Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French . . . and they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, "We will serve you if you'll get us free from the French." True story.

    And so the devil said, "OK, it's a deal." . . . Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after another, desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It's cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic.

    Dominican Republic is, is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have, and we need to pray for them, a great turning to God, that out of this tragedy, I'm optimistic that something good may come. But right now we're helping the suffering people, and the suffering is almost unimaginable.


    Pat Robertson has been pilloried by everyone, Christians included, for making reference to Haiti's ancient pact with the devil. No one, to my knowledge, has criticized the timing of his comments; rather all have criticized the truthfulness of his comments.

    It's one thing to criticize him for making a true but untimely comment, to suggest that to mention this dark part of Haiti's past is insensitive and lacking in Christian compassion.

    But that's not what he is being criticized for. He is being criticized for saying something untrue, and that's a whole different thing.

    Robertson did not say that God caused the earthquake. What he said, if people actually listened rather than reacting with hysterical hissy fits, is that Haiti's grinding poverty is a result of its pact with the devil. "Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after another, desperately poor."

    It is a matter of historical record that Haiti's independence from France is, in fact, rooted in a pact with the devil made on August 14, 1791 by a group of voodoo priests led by a former slave named Boukman. The pact was made at a place called Bois-Caiman, and the tree under which a black pig was sacrificed in this ceremony is still a shrine in Haiti.

    Annual voodoo ceremonies are conducted every August 14 on this very site, essentially renewing the covenant with darkness each summer. An iron statue of a pig stands today in Port-au-Prince to commemorate the Boukman contract with the devil.

    During the ceremony in 1791, a priestess was possessed by a spirit called Ezili Dantor and it was this spirit who received the offering of the black pig.

    Hundreds of slaves drank the pig's blood and pledged to exterminate all the white Frenchmen on the island, while Boukman asked for Satan's help in liberating Haiti from their French overlords. In exchange, the voodoo priests offered to dedicate Haiti to Satan for 200 years. The slave rebellion drove the French from Hispaniola and Haiti declared its independence on January 1, 1804.

    On national TV, Haiti's ambassador to the U.S. openly admitted, while criticizing Robertson, that Haiti did in fact enter in to this pact with the devil. In fact, he adds that America should be grateful for this pact, since the slave revolt that followed the creation of this pact prompted Napoleon to sell the Louisiana Purchase to the United States.

    Prior to this slave revolt, under French colonial rule, Haiti was known as the "Pearl of the Antilles" for its singular beauty and the richness of its resources. It engaged in robust trade in cocoa, cotton, sugar cane and coffee and by 1780 was one of the richest regions in the world.

    Tragically, however, the plantation system that made this wealth possible was built on the backs of slaves imported from West Africa who brought with them their occult practices of spirituality.

    The 200 years, of course, expired on January 1, 2004, but on April 8, 2003 dictator and president Jean-Bertrand Aristide extended the pact by declaring voodoo to be an officially recognized religion in Haiti. Haiti is officially Roman Catholic, but as the BBC says, it is a common saying among Haitians that Haiti is 70% Catholic, 30% Protestant, and 100% voodoo.

    Robertson then went on to say that we must hope that this crisis will lead to "a great turning to God" among the Haitians, and that "right now we're helping the suffering people," whose suffering is " almost unimaginable." As he spoke, a phone number appeared on the screen, which viewers could use to donate to the relief effort.

    On his program, Shepard Smith of FOX News made harshly critical comments about Robertson. As he spoke, a phone number likewise appeared on the screen. It was the number for the U.S. State Department. In other words, the hard-hearted Robertson was actively soliciting relief aid while the compassionate Smith was handing out a number for government bureaucrats.

    It's remarkable that well-meaning conservatives would criticize Robertson for saying these things.

    Let's summarize:

    1. Pat Robertson said that Haiti made a pact with the devil in exchange for freedom from slavery. This is historically true. No one in Haiti disputes this, and Haiti's ambassador confirmed it on U.S. television.

    2. Robertson did not say that the earthquake was a result of this curse, or was God's fault. Instead, Robertson attributed Haiti's grinding poverty to this compact with Satan. Jesus himself said that the thief comes only to "steal and kill and destroy."

    3. Robertson said he hopes this crisis will lead many in Haiti to turn to God, and that we need to pray to that end.

    4. Robertson said that the unimaginable suffering of the Haitians should prompt us to come their aid.

    Which one of these statements, exactly, can any believer in the Judeo-Christian tradition challenge? Secularists, and even many conservative commentators, appear to have falsely criticized Robertson for things he did not say, while paying little or no attention to things he actually did say. I'm sticking with Pat on this one.
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Rock Star From Mars

If you see the post above, you will discover that contrary to popular belief, Robertson did not attribute the earthquake to God. He didn't even say Satan was behind it, but his comments have been misconstrued to mean that

You can imagine my amusement when I saw this quote by a Haitian earthquake survivor:
  • Prayers, gunfire, looters fill streets in Haitian chaos

    Jan. 17, 2010

    ....But others were angry.

    "It's a catastrophe and it is God who has put this upon us," said Jean-Andre Noel, 39, a computer technician. "Those who live in Haiti need everything. We need food, we need drink, we need medicine. We need help."
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Religious Right leader defends Robertson's Haiti comment
  • By Bob Allen
    Thursday, January 14, 2010

    VISTA, Calif. (ABP) -- As several religious leaders criticized Pat Robertson's comments blaming Haiti's massive Jan. 12 earthquake on a pact supposedly made by its people with the devil, one came out to defend him.

    Gary Cass, chairman and CEO of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission, issued a statement saying that while Robertson's comments made him an "easy target" for criticism, they are essentially theologically sound.

    Cass, who before taking his current job in 2007 worked three years as executive director of the Center for Reclaiming America for Christ, an outreach of the late D. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries, said the Bible talks of connections between historical realities and spiritual influences when it uses the terms "blessing or cursing."

    Cass said the majority of Americans believe in moral causality. Eastern religious call it "karma," while Christians call it "God's providence." In that regard, he said, Robertson's comments were "well within the bounds of historic Christian theology."

    Cass suggested one reason Robertson's message is so unpopular is that it forces people to face the spiritual dimension of their lives.

    "As long as everything is going well we live as if we are never going to die," he said. "Then crisis hits and death slaps us in the face. Rather than humbling ourselves and searching our hearts like the Pilgrims did, we lash out at God and anyone who dares insinuate Him into our lives."

    "A simple reading of the Bible shows how God uses natural disasters to further his purposes," Cass said. "Earthquakes, floods, famine, locusts, etc. they're all there, but man hates it. Rather than humbly acknowledging that God's ways are not our ways, man rails against and accuses God. The last thing they will do is cry out for his mercy in Jesus Christ."

    Mohler criticizes Robertson, but affirms theology

    A Southern Baptist scholar faulted Robertson for "over-claiming" the meaning of a single event, but also affirmed his theology.

    "Do I believe that God punishes nations?" Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said on his daily radio program Jan. 13 "You bet, the same way I know that judgment falls upon individuals."

    The problem, Mohler said, is that natural disaster often falls on nations and individuals who seem to deserve it least while sparing others like Germany and the Soviet Union that exhibit a "fist-in-the face kind of sin."

    "Do we know that God sovereignly rules over all things and exercises his justice and judgment over the nations?" Mohler asked. "Yes we do, but we are not in a position as human beings, as believing Christians, to say we know exactly what God is doing in a situation."

    "There is a real matter of theological integrity here," Mohler said. "How do we answer those who say, 'Why did God not destroy, then, nation or community or city X, Y or Z for its apparent fist-in-the-face kind of sin -- and why on the other hand are there others that seem to suffer inordinately?'"

    The answer, Mohler said is the "mystery of God's judgment." That mystery is not a question of whether or not God punishes evil, but rather that "We can not always trace his hand."

    "It is human arrogance to over-claim on behalf of God," Mohler said. "We must be very, very careful."

    "The same hurricane that destroyed all kinds of sinfulness and enclaves of paganism in New Orleans there in the French Quarter also destroyed orphanages and evangelical churches. There's just no way to make a generalization without grave, grave theological danger."

    Mohler said Robertson "is absolutely correct in speaking about the sinfulness of the people of Haiti."

    Mohler: Haiti 'a very dark place'

    "There is no doubt that Haiti is a very dark place, where voodoo and all kinds of idolatry and all kinds of dark magic, all kinds of enslaving forms of religious belief are very prevalent," Mohler said. "It is a dark place. It has been a dark place for a long time. The poverty there is not just because the nation started off as a rather impoverished nation, but because of the behavior pattern, beliefs, that have led to a society that has been virtually ungovernable for much of its history and really has embraced so much darkness."

    However, he said, Robertson could have said the same thing about every human in every country. "All of us are sinners," Mohler said. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

    While Mohler accused Robertson of saying "too much" about God's plan, he also warned against saying "too little," such as denying that God's judgment is revealed in the rising and falling of nations.

    "Saying too little would be refusing to say or to acknowledge that God is reigning over every single nation and every other people at every single moment," Mohler said. "Saying too much is to say, 'I know exactly what God is doing in this and why God did it.' And that just isn't given to us."

    Cass said some of the religious broadcasters throwing stones at Robertson wouldn't have jobs if he had not paved the way for both religious broadcasting and political involvement by conservative evangelicals. He also reminded that Robertson's Operation Blessing humanitarian ministry has provided goods and services valued at $1.7 billion for disaster victims around the world.

    According to the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission website, the group exists to "advance religious liberty for Christians by protecting Christians from defamation, discrimination, and bigotry from any and all sources."

    An advisory council includes well-known conservative evangelical leaders including Lou Sheldon of the Traditional Values Coalition, Matthew Staver of the Liberty Counsel, Don Wildmon of the American Family Association and Rick Scarborough of Vision America.

    Robertson responds to criticism

    Robertson's official website posted a statement Jan. 13 clarifying that the broadcaster's comments were based on a widely discussed story from the Haitian slave rebellion in 1791 in which the rebellion's leaders allegedly made a pact with the devil in exchange for victory over their French oppressors. That history, the statement claimed, along with the fact that Haiti has experienced enormous difficulty throughout its history, has led numerous religious scholars over the years to describe the country as "cursed."

    "Dr. Robertson never stated that the earthquake was God's wrath," CBN spokesman Chris Roslan said in the statement. "If you watch the entire video segment, Dr. Robertson's compassion for the people of Haiti is clear. He called for prayer for them. His humanitarian arm has been working to help thousands of people in Haiti over the last year, and they are currently launching a major relief and recovery effort to help the victims of this disaster."

    Many other political and religious leaders, however, have condemned the statement roundly since Robertson uttered it Jan. 13. Asked about the comments during his Jan. 14 press briefing, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs responded with disgust.

    "It never ceases to amaze that in times of amazing human suffering somebody says something that could be so utterly stupid," he said. "But it, like clockwork, happens with some regularity."
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Rock Star From Mars

I'll be waiting for all those who piled on Robertson to go after this guy:

Farrakhan [of the Nation of Islam religion] uses Chile quake to warn America

Nation of Islam’s Farrakhan cites earthquake, warns America: ‘You will not escape’
  • Nation of Islam leader tells faithful to prepare
    By Manya A. Brachear, Tribune reporter
    March 1, 2010
    Calling this weekend's earthquake in Chile a divine precursor to his planned speech, controversial Nation of Islam leader Minister Louis Farrakhan predicted on Sunday that America will face its own imminent disaster and must prepare.

    Delivering a message titled "The Time and What Must Be Done," Farrakhan addressed thousands at Chicago's United Center as part of an annual celebration of Saviours' Day, marking the birth of W. Fard Muhammad, who founded the faith 80 years ago.

    "It's not an accident that a great earthquake took place in Chile," Farrakhan, 76, said an hour into his three-hour address. "It (precipitated) what I have to tell you today of what's coming to America. You will not escape."

    "I will speak to the kings and rulers of the world. I will speak to the pope and the religious leaders because you have to know that your time has come," he said. "I desire to guide you and warn you of things that are coming that you must try to prepare yourselves for because we are absolutely living in the change of worlds."

    Though some of Farrakhan's past remarks have been labeled anti-Semitic and racist, his supporters say he has been misunderstood and misrepresented by the media. In his speech Sunday, he recounted events in the 1980s where he was barred from hotels and other destinations after declaring support for Libya, implicated at the time in acts of state-sponsored terrorism. On Sunday, he blamed the international cold shoulder on the "reach of the Zionists."
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Have hardly heard a peep about this story on TV or on various web forums/blogs (I heard only one brief blurb on a cable news show a couple of days ago; I had to do a specific search for the story on Google News to find references to it), no outrage directed at this Islamic guy by the web community or media that I've seen...

And yet, for a week or more, people had an absolute fit over Robertson's Haiti earthquake remarks (which were kind of misunderstood):

Iranian cleric says that promiscuous & scantily dressed women are responsible for the quakes

Iranian Cleric Blames Earthquakes on Half-Naked Women

Iranian Cleric Blames Quakes on Harlots Leading 'Young Men Astray'

Boobquake - is cleric's quake theory a boob?

Cover up or risk Iranian earthquake

Earthquakes Caused by Loose Woman and Wild Sex - Iranian Ayatollah
  • The Ayatollah Kazem Sedighi related to a group of worshipers in Tehran, Iran what actually causes earthquakes. The cause is not, as one would have suspected having been deceived by infidel science, the movement of tectonic plates.

    No, the Ayatollah Kazem Sedighi revealed that earthquakes, at least in Iran, is caused by loose women who dress like tarts.

    "Many women who dress inappropriately ... cause youths to go astray, taint their chastity and incite extramarital sex in society, which increases earthquakes," Ayatollah Kazem Sedighi. He added, "Calamities are the result of people's deeds." And also, "We have no way but conform to Islam to ward off dangers."
Extramarital sex causes more earthquakes, Iranian cleric claims

Boobquake Triggers 6.5 Magnitude Quake Off Taiwan

Iranian cleric: Promiscuous women cause quakes
  • BEIRUT — A senior Iranian cleric says women who wear immodest clothing and behave promiscuously are to blame for earthquakes.

    Iran is one of the world's most earthquake-prone countries, and the cleric's unusual explanation for why the earth shakes follows a prediction by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that a quake is certain to hit Tehran and that many of its 12 million inhabitants should relocate.

    "Many women who do not dress modestly ... lead young men astray, corrupt their chastity and spread adultery in society, which (consequently) increases earthquakes," Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi was quoted as saying by Iranian media. Sedighi is Tehran's acting Friday prayer leader.

    Women in the Islamic Republic are required by law to cover from head to toe, but many, especially the young, ignore some of the more strict codes and wear tight coats and scarves pulled back that show much of the hair.

    "What can we do to avoid being buried under the rubble?" Sedighi asked during a prayer sermon Friday. "There is no other solution but to take refuge in religion and to adapt our lives to Islam's moral codes."

    Seismologists have warned for at least two decades that it is likely the sprawling capital will be struck by a catastrophic quake in the near future.
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