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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 29 2014, 01:20 PM (2,495 Views) | |
Bent20
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Feb 17 2014, 05:51 PM Post #91 |
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Headed to Retirement
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Too early to say 2013 was a bad draft. Didn't give us immediate impact players, but Werner, Thornton, Holmes and Hughes could still be contributors. Draft also gave us V. Davis by way of trade and I'd still give that trade very high marks. |
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| errsay | Feb 18 2014, 11:11 AM Post #92 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Not if he leaves. Then it's maybe a wash. But I wouldn't overpay and surely WOULDN'T franchise him. Theoretically, you expect alot more from a first round pick that "contributing." Werner needs to become a solid starter, or this draft will be under scrutiny. Thornton and Holmes need to be "contributors." Werner has to show why he was drafted in round 1. |
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Bent20
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Feb 18 2014, 01:09 PM Post #93 |
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Headed to Retirement
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Polian overpaid all the time, rarely franchised and had plenty of first round picks toward the end of his time in Indy that weren't impact players, yet you love him. |
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| errsay | Feb 18 2014, 02:59 PM Post #94 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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I love my wife too, but she makes mistatkes all the time. As do I, and you. Bottom line: He along with Manning took a doormat and made it a perennial winner and model franchise for about 14 years. So yeah, while he had some gaffes in the draft, he kept this team on top for a long time. Good Lord, he helped put the state of Indiana on the nation's watch list while helping to secure a new facility for our team. As for "overpaying"...he KEPT HIS CORE STARS intact, which was largely responsible for the success. All this, while doling out a ransom to Manning along the way, adding to that difficulty. I wanna see Grigson have half of his success. Then we'll talk. As for his first round "busts"...Donald Brown and Jerry Hughes say hello. |
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| LACOLTSFAN | Feb 19 2014, 02:48 AM Post #95 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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I love my wife too, but she makes mistatkes all the time. There is a joke in there that I will let slide. As for his first round "busts"...Donald Brown and Jerry Hughes say hello. I agree about Hughes, but not about Brown. He has been OK, and I firmly believe that with a decent O-line that he would be a 1200 yard per season rusher. Edited by LACOLTSFAN, Feb 19 2014, 02:49 AM.
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| Coltny | Feb 19 2014, 09:15 AM Post #96 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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I think that "overpaying" is a state of mind. Did the Yankees overpay Tanaka? We may think so, but for their business model and situation, it's just another transaction to them. A team pays what it has to and what it can. The Raiders certainly aren't the Yankees, but they have a ton of cap space to work with. If they have the money and they have to pay "more" to get who they want, I doubt that they see that as overpaying. They see it as getting the guy that they wanted. I believe that most players realize that their time may be short, and therefore the contract comes first, whether it's the money, the length, the guarantees or the bonus. Familiarity is also important, whether it's knowing the staff, the area, or a player or players from an organization, including their own. Yes, some do go because of a winning organization, as in Jhonny Peralta signing with the Cardinals when he had equal or better offers from other teams, but Pujols left the same winning organization, arguably the "best" franchise in the N.L. that had just won a championship, to go to California for the money. Bartolo Colon just left a team that won 2 division titles in a row in order to sign with a team that probably won't win one in the near future, why? Because he got a 2 year deal for good money. I think that the contract and familiarity are the most important points by far. There are guys in the NFL who look for "legit contenders" to sign with, but I believe that group of players to be very small. These guys are usually at the middle to back side of their careers and are financially stable, and haven't won a championship and/or Super Bowl. But that's not the majority of NFL players. The majority are young, haven't hit their big payday, and know that their days are numbered. They are going to take the money while they can get it, whether it's from Oakland or anyone else. If Hughes has a couple more double digit sack years, he may go from "bust" to "mishandled." Every year I am out in Western NY for a short period of time, and last August Hughes was in the papers out there saying that the Colts never gave him a chance until his last year with them, and he thought that he had improved when given the chance. I just blew it off as a bunch of the usual talk, but he ended up having a decent year. Interesting to see how he does in the future, but I'll always remember him for loping down the field on a kickoff that let Cromartie get good field possession for the Jets in their playoff win in Indy. Edited by Coltny, Feb 19 2014, 09:26 AM.
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| cedjss | Feb 19 2014, 10:08 AM Post #97 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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They say Alex Mack is a smart player. Would he rather be paid the most ever for a center at Oakland For play for a stable franchise like the Colts, being center for the next Manning, the next Elway in Andrew Luck. Say 7 years at 40 million, with 20 to 25 million as signing bonus |
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| BlueKoolaid | Feb 19 2014, 11:20 AM Post #98 |
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Veteran
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What's a Pujols? No, I agree, Coltny. Especially when you consider the guys we're wanting are pretty young and going into their second contracts, the big money contracts. Throw in the fact that they're currently in Cleveland or Buffalo, etc... the nice warm weather of Oakland might not be sounding too bad to them right now... A big part, or the main part, will also be how loyal Grigs is vs how Polian was. I've talked about this before, but Grigs wanting retain guys vs wanting to possibly upgrade will affect our free agency. Only, in some cases, it might actually save us money, unlike in the past. The main example being re-signing Bethea, a possible Pro-Bowl caliber player, opposed to Byrd or Ward, possible All-Pro players. |
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| errsay | Feb 19 2014, 12:24 PM Post #99 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Glad to see that no one caught my jab at Colts staffers for not developing Hughes. Carry on..Cute If he's that "smart" he'd take the money. Edited by errsay, Feb 19 2014, 12:26 PM.
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| TheDodo | Feb 19 2014, 01:32 PM Post #100 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Smart players are typically the ones who might take less because they are, you know, smart with their money, and don't waste it all on gambling. |
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IndyColt45
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Feb 19 2014, 02:16 PM Post #101 |
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MVP
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Are they calling for a jelly sandwich? Neither has played to a first round pick potential, even after last season. |
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| errsay | Feb 19 2014, 02:44 PM Post #102 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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But they're showing signs as to why they were drafted in round 1. Besides, they were drafted late in round 1 and are turning into productive players that are now worthy of a starting job. That's about all you can expect of a player drafted beyond a top-20 pick. You can't realistically expect to draft a slam dunk All-Pro that late. |
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IndyColt45
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Feb 19 2014, 03:08 PM Post #103 |
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MVP
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How many years later? They're in the prime of their career and just now starting to show any signs of life. |
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| BlueKoolaid | Feb 19 2014, 03:18 PM Post #104 |
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Veteran
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Neither has been given the opportunity to reach their 1st round pick potential, either. Even last year, at least for Brown. Shit. Trent Richardson played in 14 games for us last year and averaged 11.2 rushing attempts per game. Donald Brown in 16 games last year, 6.4 attempts per game. And he averaged 5.3 per attempt, opposed to Trent's 2.9 average. So, even after Brown showed that he could reach his potential, he still wasn't given the opportunities that he should have been. FWIW, Brown has never averaged more than 10.8 rushing attempts per game, or had more than 134 attempts for the year, in any of his 5 years with us. Trent had 157, in 14 games, never even having an off-season with us. |
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IndyColt45
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Feb 19 2014, 03:25 PM Post #105 |
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MVP
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Trent doesn't (didn't?) have the history of being terrible that Brown has. |
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| BlueKoolaid | Feb 19 2014, 03:41 PM Post #106 |
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Veteran
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Really? Cause I thought he had a history of being overrated and playing behind one of the best offensive lines in college football history... |
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IndyColt45
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Feb 19 2014, 03:53 PM Post #107 |
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MVP
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Be that as it may, he was never awful. |
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| BlueKoolaid | Feb 19 2014, 04:32 PM Post #108 |
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Veteran
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Believe it or not, but there was a time when Brown was considered pretty good too... You give him one of the worst O-lines in the NFL to start off his career and things aint gonna work out too good for anyone, though. Plus the competition from another former 1st round pick, and SB hero, didn't help with the "opportunities" part much either. |
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| errsay | Feb 19 2014, 05:14 PM Post #109 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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TRich has averaged like 3.3 for his career.Prime? Hughes is still playing under his Rookie deal, while Brown has just completed his. Edited by errsay, Feb 19 2014, 05:22 PM.
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Bent20
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Feb 20 2014, 01:02 AM Post #110 |
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Headed to Retirement
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How many sacks did Hughes average his first two years? Donald Brown averaged 3.6 and 3.9 per rush his first two years. I still love Polian, actually, for what he did early in his Indy tenure, not so much toward the end. My point is only that Grigson needs to be given an equal amount of time. Polian's moves (draft and free agency) in his first two years certainly weren't outstanding. Edited by Bent20, Feb 20 2014, 01:04 AM.
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| LACOLTSFAN | Feb 20 2014, 01:04 AM Post #111 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Donald Brown's career numbers: 551 rushing attempts 2,377 rushing yards 4.3 y.p.c career average. Last year he improved to 5.3 ypc. How is that awful behind terrible run blocking offensive lines? |
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Bent20
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Feb 20 2014, 01:19 AM Post #112 |
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Headed to Retirement
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He has potential (not for us, it would seem, as his comments make it sound like he's gone) but he's never had that many carries in five years as an NFL RB. Look at the career avg. if you like but then look at this and focus on the rush attempts. His big years (prior to this season) were built on one or two big games. Suddenly though, the popular guy to hate is the best back we've had since Edge. 2013 Indianapolis Colts 16 5 102 537 5.3 51T 6 27 214 7.9 33T 2 -- -- 2012 Indianapolis Colts 10 4 108 417 3.9 19 1 9 93 10.3 39 0 -- -- 2011 Indianapolis Colts 16 2 134 645 4.8 80T 5 16 86 5.4 17 0 -- -- 2010 Indianapolis Colts 13 8 129 497 3.9 49 2 20 205 10.3 25 0 -- -- 2009 Indianapolis Colts 11 1 78 281 3.6 45 3 11 169 15.4 72 0 1 0 TOTAL 551 2,377 4.3 80 17 83 767 9.2 72 2 1 0 |
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| BlueKoolaid | Feb 20 2014, 10:03 AM Post #113 |
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Veteran
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How many opportunities did Hughes have to get sacks his first two years, playing behind two of the best sack masters over the last decade? We got Hughes to replace Freeney. The year Freeney leaves in FA, we decide to trade his replacement. Hughes was barely given a chance to show that he could sack people. But at least he got some playing time on special teams... I sure hope you're right about that. But, for right now...
Edited by BlueKoolaid, Feb 20 2014, 10:10 AM.
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| errsay | Feb 20 2014, 11:50 AM Post #114 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Really? In 1998 he drafted Peyton, in 1999 he drafted Edge, in 2001 he drafted Reggie. Cap supposed to bump from 123M to 130M next year, with incremental bumps along the way. Edited by errsay, Feb 20 2014, 11:56 AM.
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Bent20
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Feb 20 2014, 12:56 PM Post #115 |
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Headed to Retirement
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Banging my head because that's what some fans seem to believe. I certainly don't. Beyond the no. 1 pick and no. 5 pick his first two years. Hell, Grigson has the potential to be equal to that with Luck and Hilton. We still don't know about Werner. He's been at least as successful in free agency, if not more successful. Just saying give him time. Edited by Bent20, Feb 20 2014, 12:58 PM.
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| BlueKoolaid | Feb 20 2014, 01:37 PM Post #116 |
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Veteran
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Sorry, Bent. Maybe I read that wrong. I thought you were referring to Trent, because that's who I was hating on. I'm still not sure who you were referring to. Wording confused me/bad reading comprehension. FWIW, I never really hated on Brown or Hughes. I was disappointed with them at times, but I also didn't approve of the situations they were placed in or opportunities they were given. Edited by BlueKoolaid, Feb 20 2014, 01:48 PM.
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IndyColt45
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Feb 20 2014, 01:45 PM Post #117 |
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MVP
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He was referring to Brown. |
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| DarkHorseColts | Feb 20 2014, 04:03 PM Post #118 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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My perception was that Hughes was traded at least in part because he wasn't setting the edge on those outside runs very well. As for the return value on the trade, well... |
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| BlueKoolaid | Feb 20 2014, 04:55 PM Post #119 |
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Veteran
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He was drafted as a pass rusher, though. But instead of using him on passing downs, we used Freeney and Mathis, the best pass rushers we had/have ever had. Until last year, of course, when we were without Freeney, leaving only Mathis. But instead of pushing Hughes into a pass rushing role we traded him for MLB depth, leaving us with no other pass rushers besides the unproven rookie Werner. I do know that we got Walden because he was better at setting the edge. He just aint much of a pass rusher. Luckily Mathis is a man amongst boys, otherwise we would have got NO pressure last year. |
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| errsay | Feb 20 2014, 05:09 PM Post #120 |
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Pro Bowl'er
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Again, Grigson has had alot more wiggle room to manuever with in FA than Polian ever had. Namely, cap space. Polian could have taken Leaf, just as Grigson could have taken Griffin. Glad they both listened to me. |
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Bent20




8:50 PM Jul 10