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Colts seeking improvement from within
Topic Started: Feb 25 2014, 04:26 PM (772 Views)
DarkHorseColts
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Pro Bowl'er
For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.heraldbulletin.com/colts/x1196450229/Colts-seeking-improvement-from-within

Much of the Colts' focus this offseason could be internal. There are tough decisions to make on free agent cornerback Vontae Davis and safety Antoine Bethea.

And Indianapolis is looking for improvement from wide receiver Da'Rick Rogers, inside linebacker Josh McNary and outside linebacker Daniel Adongo — youngsters who were acquired late in the process last year and did not go through a full offseason.

"We got glimpses of what those guys are capable of, what they can do," Pagano said. "Another great offseason with all those guys, the future looks bright for all of them."
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Don't overpay Vontae, and don't pay Antoine. I like Rogers and McNary's potential, and Adongo is a raw piece of clay. Most players do improve dramatically from year 1 to 2. They were all good finds by Grigson, along with Nixon.
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cedjss
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Good read
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Posted ImageBent20
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Werner, too. And potentially Thornton. Last year's draft picks should improve.

I didn't think RJF was bad. Our D-line is serviceable at the moment. If we have a guy we like available (draft or free agency) go for it, but otherwise focus on offensive line, MLB and DBs. We're still adding depth, too. We didn't have that in year one of the Pags/Luck era and we only improved it slightly this past season.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Serviceable with no depth to speak of, screams upgrade. RJF was paid to be better than "not bad". Werner had a new position to learn, and Thornton is supposedly better on the right side. They deserve a Mulligan.
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TheDodo
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Unless it is preventing us from signing someone better, which is highly unlikely with our cap space, then being paid more than he is worth is not an issue that matters. Once that happens you have a point, until then though it is useless to worry and harp on it. Especially from a fans perspective.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
If nothing else, it sets a bad precedent..and is stupid. And stupid has a way of compounding more stupid actions, or a lack of good decisions. Sure there's some real cap space and room to work with this year, but you're already hearing the caution signs eminating from Colts Central about any spending spree on the horizon. Hence my concern about any existing overblown contracts that were doled out last year. RJF's being just one of them. No need to go down the rest of the list. Besides, this is what fans do in an effort to maintain their sanity.
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Coltny
Pro Bowl'er
Yes, good read, and it sounds like the guys mentioned in the article like Toler and RJF aren't going anywhere, if they are healthy.

Glad they mentioned Landry, who really looked off his game about time the end of the season arrived.

FWIW, I'd like to go OL with he Colts' first pick, but I'd love to take Allen Robinson if he's there.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Toler hasn't been "healthy" in 3 years, but what the hey.
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cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
If we cut Satele we should have close to $44 million
I think we could easily sign 2 to 3 very good players, one of which would be Vonte Davis
In draft of course it depends who we sign sign as FA
But 3 things we need
1. Better offense line play
2. Better run defense
3. Better pass rush
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Better secondary play, too.
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cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
errsay
Feb 27 2014, 01:34 PM
Better secondary play, too.
I would put that has need #4
But just as up improved play by our offense line would help our run game and pass game, a strong pass rush makes the secondary look much better
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mike06181
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I would go center at the 2nd rd pick if one of the really good ones is there. There are 2-3 solid upgrades at center in this draft.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Did you guys actually witness the play of the seondary last year, and realize that our best CB Davis is a FA, Toler is injury prone and ain't that good WHEN healthy, Landry can't cover me and our best ST Gunner Brown, is also a FA?
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TheDodo
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errsay
Feb 28 2014, 01:54 PM
Did you guys actually witness the play of the seondary last year, and realize that our best CB Davis is a FA, Toler is injury prone and ain't that good WHEN healthy, Landry can't cover me and our best ST Gunner Brown, is also a FA?
I think we are all familiar with how the secondary played. We are also familiar with the salary cap, and you can't fix all your problems in a single offseason by just buying your talent. The Redskins have been trying to do that for years and have little success to show for it.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
That's why you make the smart decisions when you're the Exec of the year. It's why you get paid the big money. It ain't physics. If you have a one man pass rush and little quality in your secondary, upgrades are pretty vital in this era. That's also why they have FA and a draft, to address such issues for teams in need. This team is 40M under the cap threshold. We ain't the Redskins, thank you.
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TheDodo
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errsay
Feb 28 2014, 02:12 PM
That's why you make the smart decisions when you're the Exec of the year. It's why you get paid the big money. It ain't physics. If you have a one man pass rush and little quality in your secondary, upgrades are pretty vital in this era. That's also why they have FA and a draft, to address such issues for teams in need. This team is 40M under the cap threshold. We ain't the Redskins, thank you.
We aren't the Redskins because you aren't running this team, and I am glad about that.
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BlueKoolaid
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I think it's kind of obvious that guys currently on the roster need to step up... But our guys that are free agents technically aren't on our roster any more. That leaves too many holes, meaning we NEED to improve through FA and the draft.

Grigs is gonna need to take chances on guys currently not on our team. How big of a chance he takes, though, depends on how he feels about the guys he got last year, who we are now depending on to improve.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
TheDodo
Feb 28 2014, 02:26 PM
errsay
Feb 28 2014, 02:12 PM
That's why you make the smart decisions when you're the Exec of the year. It's why you get paid the big money. It ain't physics. If you have a one man pass rush and little quality in your secondary, upgrades are pretty vital in this era. That's also why they have FA and a draft, to address such issues for teams in need. This team is 40M under the cap threshold. We ain't the Redskins, thank you.
We aren't the Redskins because you aren't running this team, and I am glad about that.
I guess a dodo would do far better.
BlueKoolaid
Feb 28 2014, 03:07 PM
I think it's kind of obvious that guys currently on the roster need to step up... But our guys that are free agents technically aren't on our roster any more. That leaves too many holes, meaning we NEED to improve through FA and the draft.

Grigs is gonna need to take chances on guys currently not on our team. How big of a chance he takes, though, depends on how he feels about the guys he got last year, who we are now depending on to improve.
Yeah. He needs to take the blinders off, along with some posters here.
Edited by errsay, Feb 28 2014, 06:22 PM.
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Posted ImageBent20
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Actually, when healthy (which was rare) Toler was pretty good in coverage. Our secondary looked pretty good to start the season when we had Toler and Davis healthy. Give them some safety help and we could have a very good CB duo. Toler will get at least one more year.
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TheDodo
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Bent20
Feb 28 2014, 08:40 PM
Actually, when healthy (which was rare) Toler was pretty good in coverage. Our secondary looked pretty good to start the season when we had Toler and Davis healthy. Give them some safety help and we could have a very good CB duo. Toler will get at least one more year.
Yeah, we just need a little better depth just in case Toler is injured for a long period of time again.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Ya' think?
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MrCCCs
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It's hard for me to remember how good Toler was when healthy last season. It seemed to me he still got fooled on double moves, but had good make-up speed. The true test, though, is how you play later in the season when receivers and qbs have a chance to study film on you. So we really don't know what kind of db he can be for a full season.

Sometimes, though, you have to take risks at positions because you can't fill them all. Toler would be a gamble, imo. I might not worry so much about a gamble on Toler if we brought in an actual free safety with range, coverage, and instincts.
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IronPony1965
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im right

youre wrong

no youre wrong

no you

the internet is da best.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
We're desperate for a "rangy" Safety.
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Posted ImageBent20
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MrCCCs
Feb 28 2014, 11:59 PM
It's hard for me to remember how good Toler was when healthy last season. It seemed to me he still got fooled on double moves, but had good make-up speed. The true test, though, is how you play later in the season when receivers and qbs have a chance to study film on you. So we really don't know what kind of db he can be for a full season.

Sometimes, though, you have to take risks at positions because you can't fill them all. Toler would be a gamble, imo. I might not worry so much about a gamble on Toler if we brought in an actual free safety with range, coverage, and instincts.
I think you have it. He did get fooled on occasion, but also made some big plays. He's sort of the Freeman of our secondary when healthy. Big plays, but not necessarily consistent in taking WRs out of the game.
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errsay
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Please enlighten me on some of these "big plays" he made last year. I remember 1 against Oakland in the opener. I seem to remeber more negative plays in truth.
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Posted ImageBent20
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He also had seven passes defended. Which is pretty good given how little he played. Other teams tried to pick on him on occasion and when he was healthy they weren't nearly as successful as they were against Powers the season before and Butler and Vaughn.
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cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
It seem like the pass defense played better with Toler, but I really do not have a clue if it was Toler or just the way it was. My biggest concern with Toler is injury. He does us no good if he is injured. But Toler might be one of best CB we have had in a few years outside of Davis
Dewuell Jackson had 7 passes defenses at inside LB
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Here's why people need to check facts:

Greg Toler: 48 career games...6 int's and 27 passes defended during those 4 years.

Jerraud Powers: 58 career games...7 int's and 51 passes defended in his 5 years.

Darrius Butler: 25 career starts...11 career int's and 43 passes defended.

Cassius Vaughn: 18 career starts...5 int's and 19 passes defended.


Last year:(2013)

Powers had 1 int and 18 pd's

Butler had 4 int's and 15 pd's

Vaughn had 3 int's and 6 pd's in 4 games. FOUR
Bent20
Mar 2 2014, 01:17 PM
He also had seven passes defended. Which is pretty good given how little he played. Other teams tried to pick on him on occasion and when he was healthy they weren't nearly as successful as they were against Powers the season before and Butler and Vaughn.
Comparing Toler to Powers is a legit matchup, but comparing Toler to Butler and Vaughn is comical...considering that they're situational players that have been backups in their careers. Toler is getting paid like a starting #2 C.B. not a fringe player.
Edited by errsay, Mar 2 2014, 04:57 PM.
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