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Holmes our center for the future
Topic Started: Mar 21 2014, 06:53 PM (790 Views)
MrCCCs
Pro Bowl'er
At least, that's what is being reported from a conference call with Grigson. We're going with Holmes and Costa. Color me worried.

Of course, in GM speak that means absolutely nothing if the right center comes along at the right price. Alex Mack is apparently not that center right now.

You can almost draw a line straight down the middle of our team formations and see where we are the weakest; center/guard, NT, MLB, Free Safety. Kind of tired of seeing that this last decade. The only exception being qb.
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cedjss
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I agree Mr C
Feel better about our ILB. Howell had his moments but can he hold up
But yea unless they feel good about Holmes I am worried.
Our run game sucks and Luck takes a pounding
We have got to make improvements
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Posted ImageBent20
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People on this board were calling for Holmes to be our starter as soon as he was drafted last year. Now that it's happening, people want us to do what, exactly? We still need guard help. Holmes/Costa might not be that bad. We don't have to hit a homerun at every position of need.
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cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
Bent it feels like we maybe we did not strike out but may be popped out
Costa is not proven and he has been hurt. He has a bad back which is bad for an offense lineman.
For Holmes to only play 12 snaps last year, kind of scary
I mean Satele, McGlynn, Linkenbach are not even middle level players
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TheDodo
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Bent20
Mar 21 2014, 09:15 PM
People on this board were calling for Holmes to be our starter as soon as he was drafted last year. Now that it's happening, people want us to do what, exactly? We still need guard help. Holmes/Costa might not be that bad. We don't have to hit a homerun at every position of need.
Hitting a homerun, no, but OL is an area in need of major upgrading, and unless Holmes comes out of nowhere to surprise us we got at best marginal upgrades and ???s. This means we will most likely still have a shitting OL for another year. We really needed to have a pretty decent upgrade at either C or G, they didn't need to be the best in the league, but at least someone you can trust. We didn't get someone you can trust.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Kind of puzzling that we didn't sign a veteran Guard yet. I don't know where this Costa is injured stuff is coming from. He simply lost his job because of one bad nationally televised game, where he had some issues with snapping the ball back to Romo. He's better than most think. Not great, but better than Satele. Holmes just needs to make that second year jump.

Don't expect the team to sign Mack or draft/sign another Center anytime soon. Guard is another story. But yes, I'm also a bit concerned about the present lack of significant O-Line upgrade. Ditto with C.B. where some players that could have offered depth, have been gobbled up at reasonable rate.
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Posted ImageBent20
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I'm guessing we'll draft offensive linemen and maybe add another or two. It's not like we've had a lot of great free agents to choose from this year.
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errsay
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Not great pickin's in FA, but some decent guys to consider like Schwartz, Asamoah, Colon etc.
Hard to fathom what Grigson didn't like about Dietrich-Smith.
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JediColt
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Yeah but don't put any faith in coach speak or GM speak. Lets remember Satele got a vote of confidence before being cut that has a couple of people on here worried.
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cedjss
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I have read two different articles about Costa being injured in past with ankle and back issues
We have two players competing for our starting center who were healthy inactives last year in several games.
I guess that is better than having two off of the practice squad
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Posted ImageBent20
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Holmes basically was on the practice squad. They didn't actually have him there for fear someone would sign him, I believe. Sorry if I'm not more worried about center. We had Jeff Saturday at center for about 2-3 seasons too long and I watched him get blown up time and time again, so it's hard for me to worry that much about center. If we can find a solid guard, I'd be happy.
Edited by Bent20, Mar 22 2014, 03:07 PM.
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MrCCCs
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Thornton has a better chance to make the second year leap than Holmes, imo. I can agree that either center or right guard need to be upgraded, but we could get by upgrading just one and not both. Upgrading neither, however, is worrisome. There may be some June 1st cuts that we can use for modest upgrades.

I like Howell as a safety, but we're pretty thin there as well.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Say hello to Deon Bucannon from Washington State. This guy is really growing on me. Then the BA Guard in round 3.
cedjss
Mar 22 2014, 01:44 PM
I have read two different articles about Costa being injured in past with ankle and back issues
We have two players competing for our starting center who were healthy inactives last year in several games.
I guess that is better than having two off of the practice squad
Players get hurt/miss time, but that doesn't indicate that he has a "bad" back necessarily.
Edited by errsay, Mar 22 2014, 07:02 PM.
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Posted ImageBodey
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Bent20
Mar 21 2014, 09:15 PM
People on this board were calling for Holmes to be our starter as soon as he was drafted last year. Now that it's happening, people want us to do what, exactly? We still need guard help. Holmes/Costa might not be that bad. We don't have to hit a homerun at every position of need.
I think folks are also forgetting that we signed a veteran Guard last season in Thomas, but lost him before the season started. With him healthy, our Guard position is instantly improved over what we had on the field last season.
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Posted ImageBent20
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Thomas helps, but we still need a solid RG. I think we'll be drafting a guard to compete with Thornton and to deliver depth. Thornton probably starts the season, but a rookie could push him for playing time if he struggles. We need depth on the line too.
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errsay
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Yes and yes...
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DarkHorseColts
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Bent20
Mar 22 2014, 09:28 PM
Thomas helps, but we still need a solid RG. I think we'll be drafting a guard to compete with Thornton and to deliver depth. Thornton probably starts the season, but a rookie could push him for playing time if he struggles. We need depth on the line too.
What, no love for Lance Louis?

I kid. I'm a kidder :-D
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CanadianColtsFan
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You cannot build an entire team through free agency. It is possible that Holmes can be a good player, if not a good player, at least an upgrade on Satele. There is a difference between not being ready to be an impact player in your 1st year in the league, and not being worthy of being in the league. If the Colts liked Holmes coming out of the draft, have taught and groomed him for a season, why would they not like him now?

My stance is that they did not want to make an in-season change at a key position, if it was only likely to be a marginal upgrade. I believe Holmes is a better player than Satele, but Satele had been the starter for 2 years with Luck, knew all the protections and had a relationship with Luck. Why change that by subbing in Holmes in Week 10, for just a minor upgrade. He might be a better pass blocker and run blocker, but not be as good on QB-Center exchanges, or with audibles and protections.

There is nothing wrong with giving a 4th round OL a chance to win a job in his 2nd year. You can't just look at every need or potential need and find a FA to fill it. You have to have young and cheap players at some positions, or you will have no money left to pay your true impact guys. Evan Dietrich-Smith is not an impact guy that I'm interested in losing another player over.
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errsay
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Would you rather pay Smith 3.5 per, Mack 10.5 per, Costa 1.5 per and/or have blind faith in Holmes? That's the real question. I have no problem with giving Costa/Holmes a shot, just that Smith is certainly a more proven entity. The contract he signed with TB was certainly not "prohibitive" by any means. Mack on the other hand, would be.
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AustinColtsFan79
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The problem isn't necessarily that we are giving Holmes his shot and using Costa as an insurance policy. In a vacuum, with a strong offensive line, that would be fine. The problem is that all 3 of our interior positions were terrible last year. Thomas was good for the very brief time he was healthy and so we're assuming he's going to be the answer at left guard, but this is a guy who has never started 16 games for a team before. We've also got Thornton at the other guard, who was by many accounts one of the worst guards in the league last year as a rookie.

The only move we've made to improve our interior line so far is cutting Satele and signing Costa. That's probably a minor upgrade. Maybe Thomas comes back healthy and is great next year. Maybe Thornton and Holmes turn the corner and come into their own next year. But we have no idea and the depth behind them isn't great. I think we probably draft someone early and sign another cheap vet somewhere down the line and this will probably be good enough, but it's hard not to be a little nervous after watching Luck run for his life and watching d-linemen damn near taking the handoff on running plays for 2 years.

Grigson has done some things I've really, really liked in his time so far, but he has done absolutely nothing to give me any faith that he knows how to build an offensive line. I have hope that the line will be better, but I have trouble believing it with any conviction right now.
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Scott
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AustinColtsFan79
Mar 24 2014, 05:53 PM
The problem isn't necessarily that we are giving Holmes his shot and using Costa as an insurance policy. In a vacuum, with a strong offensive line, that would be fine. The problem is that all 3 of our interior positions were terrible last year. Thomas was good for the very brief time he was healthy and so we're assuming he's going to be the answer at left guard, but this is a guy who has never started 16 games for a team before. We've also got Thornton at the other guard, who was by many accounts one of the worst guards in the league last year as a rookie.

The only move we've made to improve our interior line so far is cutting Satele and signing Costa. That's probably a minor upgrade. Maybe Thomas comes back healthy and is great next year. Maybe Thornton and Holmes turn the corner and come into their own next year. But we have no idea and the depth behind them isn't great. I think we probably draft someone early and sign another cheap vet somewhere down the line and this will probably be good enough, but it's hard not to be a little nervous after watching Luck run for his life and watching d-linemen damn near taking the handoff on running plays for 2 years.

Grigson has done some things I've really, really liked in his time so far, but he has done absolutely nothing to give me any faith that he knows how to build an offensive line. I have hope that the line will be better, but I have trouble believing it with any conviction right now.
Well stated.. In my view priority #1 this offseason was shoring up the interior of the line. Luck has been hit far too much, IMO he has started developing some bad habits and it all goes back to pressure coming straight up the middle. I just do not have any feeling that the problem has been addressed at this point. Things can change, Maybe our young guys do develop, I just think it's a huge gamble to count on it happening. I guess for me at least I was hoping for a little more that would make me feel a bit warm and fuzzy in regard to changes made to the interior of the line, Maybe it's not too late.
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errsay
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Problem is that this wasn't a good year for FA O-linemen like last year was. No sense spending top dollar on mediocre upgrades. Gotta hope this comes in the draft.
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ColtsFan
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I currently don't see any reason we can't look again next season if Holmes doesn't work out
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MrCCCs
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Sure we can look next season, but that's a little late. I agree though that there might not have been free agents that fit our need. As an organization, we need to learn some way of evaluating talent in the trenches. That has been our weakness over the last decade, with only some brief glimpses of solid line play.
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errsay
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Polian always stated/admitted that evaluating O-Line talent was the toughest part of his job.
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advanced32
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What kills me is the belief that our rookie guard last year was learning and he might turn the corner. If he was and if he does it will fly in the face of what is normal. A normally good rookie guard shows flashes of knocking people around but sometimes he misses an assignment or gets confused on the audibles. Our rookie just couldn't slow down bullrushing DTs and couldn't sustain his blocks on running plays. I witnessed him getting brushed aside many times by a simple swim move where he seemed to almost cooperate by stepping to one side. By the end of the year I'd suspect that Luck and Richardson had already dropped Thornton from their respective Christmas card lists.

But, having typed all that...just like some of you on this board, I'm crossing my fingers like a frightened little girl and wishin' on a star, "Please Mr. Thornton, don't be such a sissy this year...grow a pair, get tough and make like a football player. PLEASE!"
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Weatherman
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Maybe he shows his hand before he plays it, or completely misreads the D-lineman before the snap and over commits. Could be as simple as teaching him to key on the D-linemans chest rather than other components.
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Posted ImageBent20
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I don't have a lot of faith in Thornton. I expect we'll add another guard early in the draft to compete with him. Hopefully, HOPEFULLY, we'll find someone, or maybe Thortnon will miraculously improve. It has been so long since we drafted a stud lineman.
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errsay
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I believe we will draft a Guard in round 2-3, unless we acquire Mathis somehow. No choice really.
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DarkHorseColts
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http://espn.go.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/4834/holmes-likely-has-inside-track-to-start-at-center
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