Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Coltpower. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Baltimore better off without the Colts
Topic Started: Mar 28 2014, 11:20 AM (824 Views)
Posted ImageBent20
Member Avatar
Headed to Retirement
Great, so move on already.

This says a lot about the mindset of some Baltimore fans. Comparing a football team's relocation to the assassination of a president.

"It's one of those few moments in life that you vividly remember," said John Moag, who later lured the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore as chairman of the Maryland Stadium Authority. "You hate to put it up with the assassination of John Kennedy, but it had that type of import here."

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/8002/30-years-later-baltimore-better-without-colts
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ColtsFan
Member Avatar
Pro Bowl'er
Yeah, then they turned around and stole the Browns from Cleveland. So are they any less an assassin?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
errsay
Pro Bowl'er
They can thank one Mayor Donald Schaefer for the exodus. He refused Robert Irsay's repeated pleas for stadium upgrades to a rundown Memorial Stadium. Problem was, he took Irsay for a drunken fool who was only bluffing about relocating the team. I remember when the city of Tampa was wooing the Colts to move there. Jacksonville may have been another. Schaefer basically lost a game of Russian Roulette to the Tiger.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheDodo
Member Avatar
Pro Bowl'er
ColtsFan
Mar 28 2014, 11:25 AM
Yeah, then they turned around and stole the Browns from Cleveland. So are they any less an assassin?
The selfishly, blind hypocrisy of Ravens fans is astounding.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Posted ImageBent20
Member Avatar
Headed to Retirement
What bothers me about this is you'll find several stories on the web today about Baltimore marking 30 years since the Colts left, none that I've seen about Indianapolis celebrating 30 years with the Colts. That's telling as it paints how Baltimore has painted that narrative for the past three decades. How long is the world supposed to feel sorry for a city over a sports team's departure?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DarkHorseColts
Member Avatar
Pro Bowl'er
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/03/28/colts-move-hells-angels-hoosier-dome-color-scheme-empty-semis/7004881/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Posted ImageBent20
Member Avatar
Headed to Retirement
I'm talking more about the national media.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DarkHorseColts
Member Avatar
Pro Bowl'er
Bent20
Mar 28 2014, 03:44 PM
I'm talking more about the national media.
Sorry - that wasn't meant as a direct reply or rebuttal to your post, just throwing the link out there because I thought it was an interesting read.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JediColt
Pro Bowl'er
I know the East Coast media bias bit wears thin with some people, but its true.
You still to this day hear people refer to the Baltimore Colts. You still to this day hear people refer to the Brooklyn Dodgers. The Dodgers moved in freakin 1958 but you STILL hear about it!

Does anyone bring up why the Los Angeles team is the Lakers? because of the great lakes of Minnesota where the team originated?
The Houston Oilers were a pretty historic team, but you don't hear Texans fans whining about losing them. Do Rams fans complain that they should have all the Cardinals colors and records?
Heck we JUST saw an article that rained down sympathy on a guy that the article ADMITS lured the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore!!!! How hypocritical is that?

Charlotte and Seattle lost teams recently, but that isn't much of a story either.

Yet we still hear about Baltimore losing the Colts.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Anyone who refers to the Dodgers as the Brooklyn Dodgers, is probably totally senile. I think the thing about Baltimore and the Colts moving, is the way Irsay handled it. Mayflower trucks in the middle of the night is a bit unorthodox, you must admit.
Edited by errsay, Mar 28 2014, 08:38 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Weatherman
Member Avatar
Pro Bowl'er
I think it is a great sports story!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheDodo
Member Avatar
Pro Bowl'er
Weatherman
Mar 28 2014, 10:56 PM
I think it is a great sports story!!
I think it is a great opportunity lost when the NFL re-organized the divisions and didn't put us and Baltimore in the same division. Now, it is just annoying.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Colts should be in the North, Fish in the South and Browns in the East. Apparently, NFL didn't want to abolish the Jets/Fish rivalry. Silly.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rev. Colt
Member Avatar
Veteran
errsay
Mar 29 2014, 10:35 AM
Colts should be in the North, Fish in the South and Browns in the East. Apparently, NFL didn't want to abolish the Jets/Fish rivalry. Silly.
One of the comments made when realignment took place suggested it had some to do with Peyton. Tagliabue said it was better for football to have Peyton Manning throwing in sunny and 60* weather in late December and early January for a playoff spot then to throw in a snowstorm. At Houston, Jacksonville, or Nashville is better than Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or Baltimore.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
advanced32
Pro Bowl'er
I've never lived in either Baltimore or Indy or anywhere even close, but I've been a fan since about 1960 when I picked my team because of that letter U on the side of the helmets. At some point I may have thought it stood for Unitas, not sure. So, I speak from a neutral site when I say, I felt sorry for the Baltimore Colts fans then and still do and I've tried to be understanding when they've acted ugly about the move. I just give'em a pass and try to ignore the crap they sling. What it says to me is that they had their hearts totally invested in their team and that move broke their hearts. I'm glad they loved their team so much. I love the idea that the Colts have a history of being adored and followed like they were. In a way it's kinda like meeting a girl at a friends house and making a connection with her in a big way and suddenly she dumps her old boyfriend for you. When you hear the old boyfriend went on a drunken spree and got locked up for a couple of days your heart kinda goes out to him. In a way you understand what he has lost. Then one night years later, he throws a rock through your window. You just fix the window and go over to his house and beat the shit out of him. Its really just that simple.
Edited by advanced32, Mar 29 2014, 12:34 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
errsay
Pro Bowl'er
All you had to do was attend a game at Memorial Stadium, or be aware of the attachment the people of Baltimore had with that team. Akin to what people in Wisconsin and the Packers have. Different times, so it is probably hard for younger fans to relate to.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MrCCCs
Pro Bowl'er
This just in:

Colts are better off without Baltimore.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
I fully agree it would be awful to lose the Colts while im this invested. I get that part of it.

But the Baltimore fans anger and hatred for Indy fans is ridiculous and only makes me want to mock them. Indy fans had nothing to do with the move. I wasnt even BORN yet. So when those old Baltimore fans begin their rants against indy fans, I become pretty damn immature (as if i wasnt enough already) and spiteful. They need to either responsibly lay the blame where it should be laid or shut their damn mouths.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ColtsVille
Member Avatar
Veteran
I would have no objection if we changed our logo to a Mayflower truck just to appease the city of Baltimore's wish.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Posted ImageBent20
Member Avatar
Headed to Retirement
IronPony1965
Mar 29 2014, 06:33 PM
I fully agree it would be awful to lose the Colts while im this invested. I get that part of it.

But the Baltimore fans anger and hatred for Indy fans is ridiculous and only makes me want to mock them. Indy fans had nothing to do with the move. I wasnt even BORN yet. So when those old Baltimore fans begin their rants against indy fans, I become pretty damn immature (as if i wasnt enough already) and spiteful. They need to either responsibly lay the blame where it should be laid or shut their damn mouths.
And where should the blame lye? With Bob Irsay? Yes, he ran the team into the ground. I get blaming him for that, but not for the team moving. Sorry Baltimore, but the team moved because the city wouldn't build a new stadium and fans weren't showing up. It was a new era in which NFL teams could hold cities hostage. Baltimore tried to turn the tables on Irsay with imminent domain and he said see ya. The media latched onto the poor Baltimore story and that's been the narrative ever since. Was Irsay a greedy rich asshole? Sure, but there are plenty of rich assholes making asshole decisions with far, far less shelf life than the Baltimore Colts story.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
There was an article years ago called the 12th man
They had a story about the colts move
The Colts had no choice but to move or risk losing the team
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JediColt
Pro Bowl'er
It is funny that before the 1958 season, the Colts had one of the worst attendance records of any NFL team. Sure, they didn't win before then, but you hear all the old Baltimore guys talk about how they were fans back in 1953. Well why didn't you attend any of the games, since they drew only a few thousand that season?

But once they won the NFL Championship in 1958, and remained one of the winningest teams in the NFL, they had tons of fans. The second they stopped being competitive, again worst attendance in the league. Then the move.

Meanwhile the Browns were selling out their stadium at the time of their move. Even now, after that pathetic non competitive expansion team they were given continues to be the worst team in the league, they STILL have huge attendance.

Yet for some stupid reason Baltimore fans think they didnt' screw Cleveland, and that they didnt' deserve to lose the Colts.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LACOLTSFAN
Pro Bowl'er
Calling them hypocrites is being polite.

The best sentiment is "Get over it already."

You moved on, "re-married," had some success.

Stop obsessing about the first marriage.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheDodo
Member Avatar
Pro Bowl'er
advanced
Mar 29 2014, 11:56 AM
I've never lived in either Baltimore or Indy or anywhere even close, but I've been a fan since about 1960 when I picked my team because of that letter U on the side of the helmets. At some point I may have thought it stood for Unitas, not sure. So, I speak from a neutral site when I say, I felt sorry for the Baltimore Colts fans then and still do and I've tried to be understanding when they've acted ugly about the move. I just give'em a pass and try to ignore the crap they sling. What it says to me is that they had their hearts totally invested in their team and that move broke their hearts. I'm glad they loved their team so much. I love the idea that the Colts have a history of being adored and followed like they were. In a way it's kinda like meeting a girl at a friends house and making a connection with her in a big way and suddenly she dumps her old boyfriend for you. When you hear the old boyfriend went on a drunken spree and got locked up for a couple of days your heart kinda goes out to him. In a way you understand what he has lost. Then one night years later, he throws a rock through your window. You just fix the window and go over to his house and beat the shit out of him. Its really just that simple.


I have no problems with them having hurt feelings over it, and having bitterness about it. Where I do have problems is with how they act like they are a special case, how the Indy "stealing" the Colts is different from them "stealing" the Browns, how they somehow can't celebrate the history the Colts had in Baltimore just because the team is not located in a different city, how they completely ignore the part that their city played in chasing the Colts out of town, and they put the whole blame on the Colts instead of where the blame should really be placed.


errsay
Mar 29 2014, 12:09 PM
All you had to do was attend a game at Memorial Stadium, or be aware of the attachment the people of Baltimore had with that team. Akin to what people in Wisconsin and the Packers have. Different times, so it is probably hard for younger fans to relate to.


Not hard at all, people haven't changed all the much, although memories have (they tend to get more nostalgic over time). Unless you grow up around a strong tradition younger people just aren't going to be as loyal and attached to something like a sports team. They just don't have the memories, and younger people tend to be more affected by trends. Over the last 15 years though the Colts have built up a strong tradition in Indy, and the people are as attached to the Colts as they were in Baltimore.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
errsay
Pro Bowl'er
The Colts have been pretty darn good over the last 15 years, so it's easy to have a strong fanbase when things are good. Hope we never have to find out otherwise. Plus they just got a new stadium to sweeten the pot.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Posted ImageBlueBlood
Pro Bowl'er
JediColt
Mar 30 2014, 12:47 AM
It is funny that before the 1958 season, the Colts had one of the worst attendance records of any NFL team. Sure, they didn't win before then, but you hear all the old Baltimore guys talk about how they were fans back in 1953. Well why didn't you attend any of the games, since they drew only a few thousand that season?

But once they won the NFL Championship in 1958, and remained one of the winningest teams in the NFL, they had tons of fans. The second they stopped being competitive, again worst attendance in the league. Then the move.

Meanwhile the Browns were selling out their stadium at the time of their move. Even now, after that pathetic non competitive expansion team they were given continues to be the worst team in the league, they STILL have huge attendance.

Yet for some stupid reason Baltimore fans think they didnt' screw Cleveland, and that they didnt' deserve to lose the Colts.
I love the Colts. I did when they were in Baltimore and I still do now. Do I wish they were still in Baltimore? Hell yes! I live in Maryland and I was one of the fans whose heart was broken when the team moved. It was the only time I've shed a tear over anything sports related.

I can't speak for the fans in the 50's and 60's, but I can share thoughts on the stae of the franchise prior to the move. Memorial Stadium was a dump, but it was our dump and the stadium was sold out for every game for a very long time. The fans had a deeper connection with their team back then. The players were part of the community. They owned restaurants and lived in the City. The shopped locally, were out and about in their neighborhoods like all the other "regular" folks. The city and the state felt very connected to the team on a personal level.

Then came Irsay. Rossenbloom wanted a new stadium and he didn't think it was going to happen. And he had a wife who preferred the west coast over the east. So he made the decision to trade franchises with Irsay.

It is well documented that Irsay was a drunk idiot who knew nothing about how to run a franchise. The thing is, early on he was a behind the scenes owner who didn't meddle. But after a few years, his drinking apparently got worse and he became more and more of a irrational and erratic owner. He would not make financial committments to the team that needed to be made in order to keep them competitive. One of the last straws for Colts fans was irsay's failure to pay Lyell Mitchell a salary commensurate with his talent and he let Mitchell go.

Then of course the Elway debacle. Ernie Accorsie has always said that he could have signed Elway, but Irsay went behind his back when he was on a drunken bender and orchestrated the trade on his own. Final nail....

The attendance dropped not because the team was no longer winning as regularly as they once did, but because the fans hated Irsay and were protesting his poor decisions and lack of committment to the team.

The City government of Baltimore is far from blameless. The plans for a new stadium in the Camden yards area was in place even then, but the City had a false sense of security and didn't do what should have been done to secure the franchise. The Mayor and the City council, desperate to prevent the move decided to vote Eminent Domain into law. Irsay heard what was going down and called for the move in the middle of the night so he and the Colts would be gone before the law was passed.

The thing is, Baltimore's franchises are now currently subject to that law. So the Ravens and the Orioles would not be able to pull the same move if they ever felt the need to do so.

Anyway, long post, I know. But for older guys like me, this subject hits very close to home. What I wouldn't give to able to take my son to homes games a few times a year instead of once every 3 or 4. It may be hard to understand for many, but it was different back then and for many the sting will never completely go away.

One other thing, the Cleveland situation was completely different. Had Irsay left the records, colors and logo back in Baltimore and just made a fresh start in Indy like Model did, then Baltimore would now have the the Colts back and there would be very little animosity towards Indy or the Irsay family.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Very well stated.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Posted ImageBent20
Member Avatar
Headed to Retirement
Franchises move all of the time though and its the franchise that owns the name and records, not the city. The Browns were a unique case. The Baltimore story stays alive while no one still feels sorry for fans in Houston, fans in St. Louis, even fans in LA who have no team.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Posted ImageBlueBlood
Pro Bowl'er
Bent20
Mar 30 2014, 12:49 PM
Franchises move all of the time though and its the franchise that owns the name and records, not the city. The Browns were a unique case. The Baltimore story stays alive while no one still feels sorry for fans in Houston, fans in St. Louis, even fans in LA who have no team.
You are absolutely right. It is the owners decision and just more of a reason for Baltimore fans to hate Irsay.

LA didn't care about their football teams. The only reason franchises were there in the first place was because of the size of the market. And that is the only reason the NFL wants back in.

The other Cities saw it coming and didn't have their teams taken away in the middle of the night. What happened in Baltimore was unique in many ways, but you're right, fans in other Cities were probably just as saddened by their teams moving as were Colts fans. It's just the circumstances that were different and I believe the relationship between the Colts fans and their team was different as well as I stated in my long winded post.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
errsay
Pro Bowl'er
I concur, and I know what you're saying...because I went to many games there. Parking sucked, bathrooms were a disgrace, but the atmosphere was collegiate-like. This is not to disparage the city of Indianapolis in any way, but you really had to experience the experience. Games couldn't start before 2:00 because of the blue laws, which allowed for folks to attend church and get to/watch the home games. Plus the stadium was really loud and a distinct home field advantage. I'm not trying to take sides in all of this, but I can understand this being from Brooklyn and having many oldtimers still quite peeved at the Dodgers for leaving town. Such is life...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · 12th Man · Next Topic »
Add Reply

--------
Cooper Blue created by SlyCooperFan1 from Outline & ZNR