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Allen; How we use him
Topic Started: Nov 5 2014, 06:04 PM (503 Views)
Manitoulin
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I admit I'm an Allen fan. I think he is one of the best TE's in the league. My problem is that I do not understand how we use him. We use his blocking ability but very little of his receiving ability in my opinion. I know he must stay in a lot in order to give Luck a little protection with our bad OL. However, we reduce his effectiveness by seldom making him a passing target.
Please tell me if I'm wrong.
I know Fleener is good at running routes but when he is in the game you know he will not be blocking. I sometime think Allen would be more effective if we used Doyle with him instead of Fleener.
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Posted ImageBent20
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I love Allen, too, but when you look at the stats (receptions and targets) they're very close to Fleener's numbers.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/ind/indianapolis-colts
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JediColt
Pro Bowl'er
I don't care what those stats say. I've watched the actual games. It seems very obvious that Allen isn't getting the same looks that other receivers are. The few times we look at him a game he makes plays. Also I noticed Allen being wide open a number of times that he didn't get looked at.

I really hope Pep gets his head out of his rear and gives Allen a bigger role in our offense. I think it will really open things up.
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Posted ImageBent20
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He definitely should get more looks. Just pointing out the disparity between Allen and Fleener isn't as great some people might think.
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JediColt
Pro Bowl'er
Except that that only shows the catches and yards, doesn't break down how often they were the primary receiver on a play vs the outlet or last read in the progression.

Doesn't include how many times Allen or Fleener were covered so they weren't thrown to, or how many drops.

I only remember seeing Allen actually drop one pass this year. He had one look in this last game when Luck threw it in the dirt. Other than that I dont remember any other plays where he didn't make the catch.

Meanwhile Fleener drops several passes. Also there are a lot of times Fleener is in the game and Allen isn't or that Fleener is sent out in patterns while Allen is kept in to block.

I would honestly like to see a game where Allen was either the #1 or #2 receiver targeted behind Hilton, and see what kind of numbers he'd put up.
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TheDodo
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The difference between Allen and Fleener is that Fleener is out there just as much as Allen, but is far more likely to be use as a receiver than a blocker, while Allen is more likely to be used as a blocker than a receiver. Yet in far fewer opportunities Allen is getting himself in position for a pass to be thrown his way, then proceeds to catch the pass at a higher rate, and double Fleener's yards after the catch while only having 4 more receptions.

Basically in my opinion it comes down to Fleener isn't a good enough receiver to merit his playing time when you have a superior receiver in Allen, and a superior blocker in Doyle. As far as I can tell the only reason he is playing over Doyle is because Stanford. If Fleener was a Clark level receiver we wouldn't be having this conversation, but he is really only an average or above average at best receiving TE. If that is all you are, then you better be able to block. If you can't you really shouldn't be receiving snaps over better blockers in most systems.
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Manitoulin
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Thanks everyone. Now I at least know I'm not alone in my thinking about Allen. You express yourselves much better than me.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
I understand the targets and catches stats, but it doesnt prove much of anything to me. My eyes tell me Fleener is given way more opportunity for targets than Allen.

All that stat tells me (once again, its just my own personal eye ball test) is that Allen makes the most of his opportunities.

With that said, I havent been as down on Fleener lately as i was. Hes snagged quite a few passes that surprised me.
Edited by IronPony1965, Nov 6 2014, 02:46 AM.
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CanadianColtsFan
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Allen is an exceptional blocker. Among the best blocking TEs in the league. It stands to reason that he would see fewer targets, he is blocking more. In the redzone, he is a featured target. They look to him a few times a game outside the redzone. And he provides great blocking in the run game and great protection for Luck. I can't see how anyone could have an issue with how he is being used. He has the 4th most receptions and the most touchdowns on the team. I wouldn't try to fix what ain't broken.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Bingo. Blame this dilemma on poor O-Line play. Glad we decided to scrap the Havili/Harvey experiment at least.
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cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
Against Giants game, Allen played 56 played , Fleener played 39 plays
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Posted ImageBent20
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cedjss
Nov 6 2014, 07:06 PM
Against Giants game, Allen played 56 played , Fleener played 39 plays
Clearly the problem is that everyone wants him to be more of a receiving threat, but the Colts are using him how you would expect them to. As a blocker and a receiver. I'd like to see him get more targets than Fleener, but it's not that bad.

Another interesting stat, it looks like Bradshaw is third in the league for most receptions by a running back. I know those are pretty much all short passes, but it gives you an idea of how much the Colts spread the ball around.
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Weatherman
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I think Fleener gets better matchups than Allen so is targeted more often.
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AustinColtsFan79
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Allen is a talented guy who does lots of things to help this offense. It's hard to complain when the Colts are first in total yards and first in points per game. Sure he could probably put up better receiving numbers in an offense that made him a focal point. We use him in lots of ways in our offense though, to chip or outright help in pass protection, as a fullback, routes in the flats, routes in the seams, etc. We move him around and have him do different things because he's so versatile. I feel like that versatility is a big part of the reason our offense is putting up such gaudy numbers right now, so I don't have a problem with it.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
I think the main issue here is how much BETTER the offense could run if Allen had more opportunities.

The offense is flying extremely high but they can also get really sloppy at times. I cant imagine how good the offense would look if Allen didnt have to stay on the line to help block.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Yes, but the problem is he does have to.
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TheDodo
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errsay
Nov 7 2014, 02:11 PM
Yes, but the problem is he does have to.
He wouldn't have to as much if we played Doyle more.
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MrCCCs
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Well if Cherilus can get healthy in the bye week, and Thornton can pull his head out of his butt, maybe he won't have too as much either.
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Posted ImageBent20
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TheDodo
Nov 7 2014, 02:50 PM
errsay
Nov 7 2014, 02:11 PM
Yes, but the problem is he does have to.
He wouldn't have to as much if we played Doyle more.
So what you're saying is, give Allen the routes and passing reps Fleener is getting and Doyle the blocking reps Allen is getting? Like it or not, Fleener is too good to relegate to the bench. Yes, he has his drops, he has his plays like he had Sunday, too. Allen needs more plays where he is the focus, but he is not great at getting separation when covered by faster DBs and LBs. If he becomes a focal point, I can see other teams shutting him down if we don't have other weapons and spread it around.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
Fleener has shut me up the last couple of weeks.
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Manitoulin
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The following is for 9 games this year.
Fleener- 22 receptions, 225 yards, 13.4 avg.,long 32 yards, 4 TD's.

Allen- 26 receptions, 374 yards, 14.4 avg., long 41 yards, 7 TD's, 1 fumble.

I guess we can say this is a nice problem to have. We are going to need all our firepower on our first game back from our bye.
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Coltny
Pro Bowl'er
Manitoulin
Nov 8 2014, 02:56 AM
The following is for 9 games this year.
Fleener- 22 receptions, 225 yards, 13.4 avg.,long 32 yards, 4 TD's.

Allen- 26 receptions, 374 yards, 14.4 avg., long 41 yards, 7 TD's, 1 fumble.

I guess we can say this is a nice problem to have. We are going to need all our firepower on our first game back from our bye.
This is not a problem - it's an asset.

It's money in the bank.
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Posted ImageBent20
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It's not really a problem either because Allen and Fleener are two different TEs. Two different skill sets.
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CanadianColtsFan
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IronPony1965
Nov 7 2014, 01:43 AM
I think the main issue here is how much BETTER the offense could run if Allen had more opportunities.

The offense is flying extremely high but they can also get really sloppy at times. I cant imagine how good the offense would look if Allen didnt have to stay on the line to help block.
It isn't a case of Allen having to stay in the block just to keep Luck alive, he is a balance TE. He is a terrific blocker. They keep him in to block on plays in which Luck is going to look downfield. Sure, it could be someone else staying in as the extra blocker on those deep passing plays, but why? Allen isn't going to be the target on those types of plays. Having an issue with how Dwayne Allen is used is just baffling to me.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
Why couldnt he be the target? He caught a hell of a deep one against Pittsburgh.

His blocking IS amazing. Im not saying he needs to not block ever again, but he needs more opportunities. Its obvious hes a play maker.
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TheDodo
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CanadianColtsFan
Nov 10 2014, 05:09 AM
Having an issue with how Dwayne Allen is used is just baffling to me.
Because I think Doyle is a better blocker than Fleener is a reciever, and a better receiver than Fleener is a blocker. Allen is just flat out better at everything over both of them. I believe a combo of Allen/Doyle is better than a combo of Allen/Fleener.
Edited by TheDodo, Nov 10 2014, 02:11 PM.
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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IronPony1965
Nov 8 2014, 02:13 AM
Fleener has shut me up the last couple of weeks.
Finally. :-D
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
You people do realize that Allen is coming off of a serious injury/surgical procedure? Be happy with his progress to date, because truthfully, I was holding my breath on him.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
IndyColt45
Nov 10 2014, 03:44 PM
IronPony1965
Nov 8 2014, 02:13 AM
Fleener has shut me up the last couple of weeks.
Finally. :-D
one of these days...
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Manitoulin
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For all Allen fans.

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/11/14/7220457/dwayne-allen-named-colts-2014-ed-block-courage-award-recipient
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