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Any one else tired of Hilton's disappearing act?
Topic Started: Nov 18 2014, 09:22 PM (746 Views)
MikeB
Regular
I love Hilton but it is disappointing that Hilton can play so well and have great games and then he has bad games where he almost disappears.

I don 't care how great a game planner Belichick is, Hilton or the Colts coaching staff should still be able to make changes during a game which allow Hilton to be more productive in the passing game.

I was very surprised how ineffective Hilton was for the Patriots game. Better minds than me can explain why Hilton couldn't get open more often...any ideas?

Mike
Edited by MikeB, Nov 18 2014, 09:24 PM.
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ColtsFan
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Pro Bowl'er
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Look at the game logs from this season on the link i'm posting below.

http://www.nfl.com/player/t.y.hilton/2532865/gamelogs

This season, there have only been 2 games where Hilton hasn't had at least 5 catches in one game. Aside from week 1, the game vs the Patriots was the only game where Hilton had less than 50 receiving yards. Prior to the Patriots game, Hilton has a touchdown in 3 of the previous 4 games.

As you can see from the next link I post below, He already has just 1 fewer '1st down' than last year in total, and he has 23 less catches by comparison.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14924/ty-hilton

He is on pace for 95 catches and 1538 yards. Those are stats that ANYBODY would be proud to post. I'm not quite sure what you are complaining about? If the guy does any better than he is, he's going to cost us a TON when his contract extension comes up. i already fear that he will
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
Oh good lord.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Anyone know why Fleener had such a good game?
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ColtsFan
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errsay
Nov 19 2014, 09:59 AM
Anyone know why Fleener had such a good game?
LOL - I think he's improved greatly this year. I was wondering why there were no threads about it. Definitely had a great game.
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TheDodo
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errsay
Nov 19 2014, 09:59 AM
Anyone know why Fleener had such a good game?
He read our forum. :p
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rccolts
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MikeB
Nov 18 2014, 09:22 PM
...Better minds than me can explain why Hilton couldn't get open more often...any ideas?
It's called double coverage - Browner in press man-to-man with a safety over the top the entire game, thus Luck usually had a better option. Not to mention the physicality the officials allowed. One particular replay revealed that Browner knocked him down about 10 yds down field with no call, & in the same replay you could see that Revis held Reggie with no call. It was a play where Luck had reasonable time but was unable to find anyone & wound up scrabbling for about 5 yds.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Hence my Fleener comment.
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AustinColtsFan79
Pro Bowl'er
We Colts fans seem to have biases with our TEs that make us think Allen is better than he is and that Fleener is worse than he is. I'm not saying that Allen isn't great and that Fleener hasn't had his shortcomings, just that we tend to exaggerate them to the point where Allen should be the center of our offense and Fleener should never see the field. I think being drafted the same year and the order/position they were drafted plays a factor in that. The fact that Allen was good right from the jump and Fleener has come along more slowly is probably part of it too.

There have been a couple games in the last year or so where Fleener has shown flashes of how good he can be. We'll see if he can get to the point where he can do it consistently.

As for Hilton, he's been really consistent this year thus far. What we saw in this game where they could take him out a bracket coverage scheme was one of the concerns I had with him on being a small receiver in a #1 role. Hilton is explosive, but I think for him to really shine, he needs someone on the other side that can make teams pay. Our other wide receivers in this game didn't win on enough plays.

Also, Hilton having a bad game was part of Fleener having a good game, which is what errsay was alluding to above. It let Fleener end up with one on one match ups and no over the top help, which he consistently beat. It's what makes Fleener so dangerous when he's on. With his combination of size and speed, the other team just doesn't have anyone on their roster who can cover him straight up. He's just got to actually USE that body to create space and then catch the ball when it comes his way, which he did on Sunday.
rccolts
Nov 19 2014, 02:40 PM
MikeB
Nov 18 2014, 09:22 PM
...Better minds than me can explain why Hilton couldn't get open more often...any ideas?
It's called double coverage - Browner in press man-to-man with a safety over the top the entire game, thus Luck usually had a better option. Not to mention the physicality the officials allowed. One particular replay revealed that Browner knocked him down about 10 yds down field with no call, & in the same replay you could see that Revis held Reggie with no call. It was a play where Luck had reasonable time but was unable to find anyone & wound up scrabbling for about 5 yds.
They didn't have Browner on TY(I believe he was on Fleener for a lot of the game), they had Kyle Arrington, their nickel corner on him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4772336/arrington-the-right-call-against-t-y-hilton
Edited by AustinColtsFan79, Nov 19 2014, 03:00 PM.
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rccolts
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AustinColtsFan79
Nov 19 2014, 02:53 PM
...They didn't have Browner on TY(I believe he was on Fleener for a lot of the game), they had Kyle Arrington, their nickel corner on him.
Regardless of who they had on him they had help over the top all game.

I sure thought it was Browner who knocked him down on the play I described but I could be wrong.
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Scott
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errsay
Nov 19 2014, 09:59 AM
Anyone know why Fleener had such a good game?
Bingo, It was all about scheming, Belichick decided Hilton wasn't going to beat them, Much like he did with Marvin when he was in his prime, It was on the Colts to find other areas to exploit, Fleener exploited his single coverage matchup's well, Reggie couldn't exploit Revis and Nicks for the most part can't seem to exploit anyone with any consistency. Moncreif got open with his only real look, It appears he still must be struggling to learn the offense because so far it appears he basically has two routes he runs when he see's the field, The go route and the comeback off the go route. I understand why many want to see more of him on the field, Myself included, That said, If he runs the wrong route and Luck throws to where he is supposed to be and he isn't there and it get's picked..............Anyway, I think we just are going to have to continue to have dare I say..Patience with him and hope he is ready for more primetime once playoff time approaches. Reggie struggled learning the offense early in his career, Dallas Clark said it took till year 2 for him to feel comfortable, We should allow the rookie the same learning curve.
Least we forget, Any semblance of a running game would have alleviated the pressure on the receiving corp, Our so called rushing attack made it quite easy for the Patriots to concentrate on coverage the entire game. It really is amazing that we couldn't run at all against a team that was daring us to run the ball with their scheme. But it's really the same scheme the evil genius has used against the Colts numerous times, And he usually wins out cuz the Colts can't make him pay for it. No magic or great coaching, Just the same basic blue print we have seen him use many times in the past. Why change what works, We have just substituted Luck for Manning. The "Monster" looks very much like the mid 2000's Colts to me.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
You reiterated what I had said in another thread about the team "similarities" circa Manning era. As for Belichik's plan, it's alot easier stopping the run when your team employs the likes of Wilfork, Hightower and #91, v.s. the likes of Chapman, Freeman and Jackson.

I will again pound the desk for better inside players on defense and the O-Line. Until then, same ole story.
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MrCCCs
Pro Bowl'er
There have been a few games where our offense has dominated NE's defense. In EVERY case it is because we could run the ball.

On defense it is the same as everyone else. Stop the run and pressure the passer. NE actually only did one of those effectively, stop the run. But it was enough.
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MikeB
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ColtsFan - I guess what I'm thinking about are 3 of the 4 losses the Colts have suffered this year...Hilton did not have very good games per your statistics - no TDs in these 3 games >

Denver 41 yds
Philadelphia 65 yds
New England 24 yds

3 good teams and in my opinion not very productive results no matter how many catches he made.

TY did have a big game vs Pittsburgh the other loss. Good stats versus teams with poor records are not what I'm looking for in a playoff contending team.

Mike
Edited by MikeB, Nov 20 2014, 08:44 PM.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
Stat sheet dont mean shit, boss.

Hilton made Fleener possible.
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MikeB
Regular
IronPony - Sorry I forgot you are the expert and know more than anyone about football. My apologies.

Stats only work when they back up your arguments right?

Mike

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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
I am not an expert. I am explaining why Hilton was still extremely effective. Just because he didnt put up over 100 doesnt mean he disappeared.

Hilton is a game changer whether he blows up or not and hes still extremely young. I am excited for his future.

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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Think Baseball, where they pitch around certain hitters and don't allow them to beat them. Same sort of thing.
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Rev. Colt
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I really have no idea why you are down on Hilton. I think he is a very good and can be great WR. The kid is averaging 6 catches and 100 yards a game this season.
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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Anyone else see TY getting emotional talking to the CBS guys after the game? Poor kid was TORE UP (in a good way) about his kid.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
Someone is going to make a parody of it.

But TY is still the MAN.
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TheDodo
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Rev. Colt
Nov 23 2014, 04:43 PM
I really have no idea why you are down on Hilton. I think he is a very good and can be great WR. The kid is averaging 6 catches and 100 yards a game this season.
I think it has everything to do with Marvin Harrison, and the perception that he sucked in the playoffs.
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MikeB
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I thought I would see several posters adding comments to this thread after Hilton's stats today. :wave:

Congrats to TY for his "reappearance" today - the Colts certainly needed him to show up and have a big day which he did. Also congrats on his new baby daughter.

The Colts need TY to continue to have good games the rest of the way and into the playoffs. Living in Arlington TX I want to see Hilton have a big game against the Cowboys which unfortunately seem to be on their way to the playoffs.

Changing subjects > what is up with the 5 sacks given up in the 1st half? :doh: A sloppy 1st half against a very poor team doesn't prove the Colts are back to being an "elite" team in the AFC. Still a very big win since the Texans lost for a 2 game division lead.

Mike
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
The right side of the line was being completely dominated. AQ Shipley took over at RG at some point and it seemed to get a lot better.

No idea why Shipley was playing so well and then just completely pulled from the line up, but hes needed if he can keep it up.
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Rev. Colt
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Actually, I was not taking today's game under consideration when I made my post. Prior to today he was averaging right at six receptions and 97 yards per game. He only caught four balls today but had about 30 more yards than his average. I just truly think he is a good WR. I argued the point in another thread about him not being a #1 receiver on a team and I said I thought he was a #1 receiver. The kid has sure hands, can run crossing patterns and is very good on the deep throws. Our offense is very balanced in the passing game that we do not have to throw to him 20 times every game.
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cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
Hilton is having an All Pro season
Good to see Shipley playing.
Was he in because Thornton was ineffective or hurt?
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Manitoulin
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Shipley came in because Robinson needed some help and Khaled Holmes has this splinter in his butt.
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MrCCCs
Pro Bowl'er
Robinson?


I honestly hope Shipley came in because Thornton was ineffective. It would give me more confidence in our coaching staff.
Edited by MrCCCs, Nov 24 2014, 10:21 AM.
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Posted ImageBent20
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Headed to Retirement
Until yesterday, I still had hope that Thornton would improve with time and more NFL experience. I lost that hope.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
TheDodo
Nov 23 2014, 07:00 PM
Rev. Colt
Nov 23 2014, 04:43 PM
I really have no idea why you are down on Hilton. I think he is a very good and can be great WR. The kid is averaging 6 catches and 100 yards a game this season.
I think it has everything to do with Marvin Harrison, and the perception that he sucked in the playoffs.
Except he did.
MrCCCs
Nov 24 2014, 10:20 AM
Robinson?


I honestly hope Shipley came in because Thornton was ineffective. It would give me more confidence in our coaching staff.
Harrison
Edited by errsay, Nov 24 2014, 06:39 PM.
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