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The 20 point difference
Topic Started: Nov 23 2014, 05:42 PM (254 Views)
MrCCCs
Pro Bowl'er
The offensive difference between the first half and second half? Shipley replaced Thornton at RG. We instantly ran and pass blocked better and got in rhythm on offense.

That may be a little too easy to make THornton the whole scapegoat, but he was surely a big part of the problem. I was a big supporter of Thornton last year and thought his play would be even better this year. I saw enough today to hope we don't see him on the field any more this year. Shipley played much better, but if he had started the game? Who knows.

The right side of our o-line is a serious need this off-season.

What happened to Arthur Jones? I know it is his first game back in a while, but he has been very under-whelming.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
I was so relieved to see some help given to the right side of the line. That crap was bad.
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CanadianColtsFan
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Pro Bowl'er
It is pretty much a lost season at this point for Arthur Jones. I just hope he can get enough snaps and heal up enough to make an impact in the playoffs. It is a shame, because he truly is a great player. Injuries happen though.
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Posted ImageBent20
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The only positive for Thornton was when he recovered the fumble. Man has he been awful!
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isamuelson
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Why did it take them an entire half to figure this out? No wonder they wouldn't really say what the exact adjustment was, but instead, they all gave vague answers when asked what were the adjustments made at half-time?

Why not just pull him in the first half? I mean, 4 sacks in the first half. Just ridiculous! :banghead:
Edited by isamuelson, Nov 24 2014, 02:16 PM.
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ck_in64
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so was Reitz that bad because he was trying to cover for Thorton or was Reitz just that bad? I thought Clemmons was going to kill Luck in the first half.
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Manitoulin
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Do we have any OL other than Castonzo and Mewhort who could even make another NFL team as a backup?
I'm changing my want list for next year to 4 OL, 2 ILB, 1 safety.
Shipley is in our coaches doghouse for some reason. We seem to play better with him on the field but it seems that doesn't count much. Whalen found the same problem at WR. ??????
New running backs will not solve our problem.
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Moner Hot
Pro Bowl'er
ck_in64
Nov 24 2014, 03:14 PM
so was Reitz that bad because he was trying to cover for Thorton or was Reitz just that bad? I thought Clemmons was going to kill Luck in the first half.
Reitz was that bad.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Reitz is slightly better positioned at Guard. But sucks at both. THORNTON IS AWFUL. I wanted to jump thru my TV yesterday and choke his ass. GIVE NIXON A SHOT.
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Posted ImageBent20
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As much as fans talk about Whalen and Shipley, you'd think they were all pros in the waiting.
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
No, theyve just shown to be dependable.

Shipley is obviously more dependable than Thornton.

And again, not a single person has said anything about Whalen being all pro or MVP or Hall of Fame bound or anything of the such. As much as youre acting like we are saying something extreme, you are on the opposite of the extreme spectrum.
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Manitoulin
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I've never felt Shipley or Whalen were the answer at center or as a kick return player. I do think Shipley has done the best job at center to date. I do not object to Whalen not returning kicks but I do think he should have stayed on the roster for his abilities as a receiver. I, too, love Reggie but feel he is slowing down. Nix has had a tough year and I feel Moncrief is not ready now but hope next year for him. I also do not understand cutting Whalen and keeping Khaled Holmes on the roster. If Holmes can't play and help this OL how can he ever help?
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ck_in64
Veteran
I'd have to agree with the metal horse from 1965. I personally don't see either guy has particularly special but I think both are highly dependable and therefore valuable.

Let's step back a bit. Next year Nicks is gone and Reggie probably should retire. That leaves us in order, Hilton, Moncrief and ? Whalen would be a great Edleman/Welker kind of guy. Perhaps not in their class but the same type or WR who already knows our system.

Shipley can play guard and center and it's clear Thorton is not the answer. Who knows if Holmes is and I'm souring on Harrison. That leaves a dependable if unspectacular Shipley which gives us some flexibility in filling other positions.

PS: Brain cramp Rccolt. thanks for correcting me
Edited by ck_in64, Nov 27 2014, 08:05 PM.
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rccolts
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ck_in64
Nov 25 2014, 12:36 PM
...and I'm souring on Henderson.
Who is Henderson?

Did you mean Harrison?
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BlueKoolaid
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Hard to gauge Hasselhoff's skills with Thornton next to him, IMO. Definitely want another interior lineman in the draft next year, but if we hold on to Shipley, we can probably hold off on center for another year with the two of them...
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Posted ImageBent20
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IronPony1965
Nov 25 2014, 02:56 AM
No, theyve just shown to be dependable.

Shipley is obviously more dependable than Thornton.

And again, not a single person has said anything about Whalen being all pro or MVP or Hall of Fame bound or anything of the such. As much as youre acting like we are saying something extreme, you are on the opposite of the extreme spectrum.
Fair enough. I often tend to be anti-fan favorites, so maybe I'm a little too harsh on them both. I just don't think they'll help us much as some of you do.
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MrCCCs
Pro Bowl'er
Henderson/Harrington/Robinson/Hasselhoff/Harrison at center is getting better and I would like to see how he progresses. Thornton's the one that is regressing, and RT hasn't looked good for the last 6 games. Having the whole right side of the o-line be a question mark hasn't made Harrison look any better at center. If he had any veteran presence around him I think he'd fair even better.

Other than qb, the whole middle of our team on both sides of the ball is a problem: running back, interior o-line, DT, ILB, and safeties.
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cedjss
Pro Bowl'er
our running game and pass blocking numbers were better with Shipley at center than Harrison
Harrison is a rookie so his upside should be huge. We blocked a lot better in 2nd half with Shipley at guard. But I read where Thornton is hurt, so that might be why we made the change with Shipley at guard
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IronPony1965
Pro Bowl'er
Bent20
Nov 25 2014, 02:00 PM
IronPony1965
Nov 25 2014, 02:56 AM
No, theyve just shown to be dependable.

Shipley is obviously more dependable than Thornton.

And again, not a single person has said anything about Whalen being all pro or MVP or Hall of Fame bound or anything of the such. As much as youre acting like we are saying something extreme, you are on the opposite of the extreme spectrum.
Fair enough. I often tend to be anti-fan favorites, so maybe I'm a little too harsh on them both. I just don't think they'll help us much as some of you do.
Whalen being able to come in the few times he had and secure a few catches is exactly what has been asked of him and hes answered the bell. That is all any of us are looking for and considering. Hes proven his worth as a back up role player.

Is it even doubtful that AQ was a surprising asset to the offensive line to start the season only to be benched with a million questions as to why? He definitely did a way better job than Thornton did.
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TheDodo
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rccolts
Nov 25 2014, 12:55 PM
ck_in64
Nov 25 2014, 12:36 PM
...and I'm souring on Henderson.
Who is Henderson?

Did you mean Harrison?
I don't think anyone actually knows his name because I have seen people use about 10 different names for him on here.
cedjss
Nov 25 2014, 07:56 PM
our running game and pass blocking numbers were better with Shipley at center than Harrison
Harrison is a rookie so his upside should be huge. We blocked a lot better in 2nd half with Shipley at guard. But I read where Thornton is hurt, so that might be why we made the change with Shipley at guard
When it comes to Harrison, I think they are making an investment in him as our now and future center. While they weren't willing to do that with Shipley. So they figured it was better to give him snaps now, and deal with some growing pains over waiting to give him experience until next season.
Edited by TheDodo, Nov 26 2014, 10:47 AM.
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JediColt
Pro Bowl'er
I don't know what to make of Hornswoggle at center, but the entire O line has been putrid lately. Castonzo our first round, star LT got beat badly on an outside pass rush early in the game. There isn't anyone on the line that is an above average player, but I for one am tired of having to complain about the O line year after year after year.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Simply must invest the proper resources and committment in doing so.
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MrCCCs
Pro Bowl'er
I agree, Jedi, but I do have to stand up for Castonzo a little bit, as he really has been pretty good for us overall.
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Moner Hot
Pro Bowl'er
The left side of the line has been fine. Castonzo will get beat from time to time, he's not Joe Staley. Mewhort has been pleasantly invisible most of the time. Cherilus has been an abomination, Thornton hasn't taken a step forward in year 2, and Harrison has had a concerning level of mental mistakes, even for a rookie.
Im hoping Cherilus will be better after sitting out lately and that someone can step in at Right Guard. Shipley isn't the guy. His lack of size will be exposed at guard in the long run.
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errsay
Pro Bowl'er
Nixon at RG, Gosder at RT. Done.
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