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Just heard...Colts have an Anthem knee taker aare one of the teams; ; Statement to Colts fans from the players;
Topic Started: Sep 24 2017, 10:50 AM (265 Views)
advanced32
Pro Bowl'er
I want to know who he or they are. I am instantly an anti-fan. I don't care if they do interviews and express whatever opinions they have. I'm 100% fine with that. But taking a knee, sitting, turning their back or in any way disrespecting the flag is insulting to me and to the country they are privileged to live and work in. This kinda protest is inappropriate. If this team officially takes the position endorsing this behavior I will officially end my Colts fanhood....and...if that happens, I see no way to attach my real feeling toward another team...so that would end me and the NFL. I really don't care to put it to a vote and if Robert Mathis, my favorite player in Indy, tried to talk me out of it...he be wasting his time.

This is not a political thing...its an unforgivable act of disrespect to millions of Americans...not just those who are alive but mostly those who put their lives at risk so posterity could continue to live free. I believe we benefit from observing symbols like the flag. Theseazzholes have to understand this.

Important point: I was born and raised in the deep south. As a kid I used to draw the confederate flag, like other kids I knew did. It wasn't until I was in college that I first understood that that flag was viewed by some as a racist symbol. After seeing film of KKK members tote'n it at their rallies, I certainly understood how a symbol of regional pride for me was a symbol of racism for many others. Therefore, I never flew that flag on my car antenna or never displayed it in any way because I thought it would be disrespectful. These same protesters today aren't dealing with the confusion I experienced as a kid. The American flag doesn't represent bad cops who are out to gun down minorities, I'd protest those people too. In fact, I have known several cops I would protest. There are jerks in every field of work. Disrespecting the American flag speaks of ignorance and a total lack of appreciation.

I just wanna know who this player is.....or players.
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ColtsFan
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Are you an anti fan of the team or the player
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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Looks like:

#17 - Kamaar Aiken
#29 - Malik Hooker
#20 - Darius Butler
#93 - Jabaal Sheard
#30 - Rashaan Melvin
#58 - Tarell Basham
#99 - Al Woods

Not sure about the other two guys in the back row.
Edited by IndyColt45, Sep 24 2017, 01:45 PM.
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Posted ImageBent20
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Good for them. Originally, I was indifferent to this issue, but I'm now tired of white people freaking out about this.

Guess that didn't work out quite as he planned:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/09/24/dozens_of_nfl_players_take_a_knee_during_anthem_after_trump_criticizes_protests.html
Edited by Bent20, Sep 24 2017, 01:57 PM.
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Posted ImageIndyColt45
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I'm sick of hearing about it.
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TheDodo
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IndyColt45
Sep 24 2017, 01:56 PM
I'm sick of hearing about it.
Agreed, I don't really give a fuck if they want to protest, that is their right. The only person whose opinion actually matters on this is Irsay's because he is the only one who has the right to fire them. If Irsay doesn't care let's ignore it, and move on.

If you feel offended by the protest, well let me tell you the same thing I often tell liberals. Get the fuck over it snowflake.
Edited by TheDodo, Sep 24 2017, 02:43 PM.
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Coltny
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I don't like it, but I still think that it is something that again is overblown by the press.

I will say, though, if a Canadian hockey player knelt during the Canadian national anthem, the next shift that he's on the ice...
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MikeB
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The reason why I object to kneeling and not standing for the National Anthem is that the American flag only stands for what is good and right and for nothing that is racist or bad in this country, period. I have absolutely no problem with players protesting, picketing or expressing their opinions in other type of ways but it is ignorant on their part to not understand why others believe not standing for the anthem is disrespecting everything that is good about this country.

The protesters do have a right to sit or kneel during the anthem but it is not an appropriate way to protest. Their lack of understanding about this issue is really amazing as is the lack of understanding by some sports commentators who are afraid to say what I feel about this inappropriate method of protesting.

MikeB
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IronPony1965
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if anything it just becomes annoying to read/hear about over and over.

how about we just let them do this crap and not write freaking articles about it or tweet about it.
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Posted ImageBent20
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Like it or not, Trump spouting off about it the last few days on Twitter has clearly made this a much bigger issue. You can't blame the media when he is the one making it a divisive issue and using it to fire up his base. And while a few Colts kneeled, probably twice as many Browns did. And then there are the Steelers, Seahawks and Titans who just stayed in the locker room during the anthem.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/24/cleveland-browns-players-national-anthem-protest-kneel
Edited by Bent20, Sep 24 2017, 05:12 PM.
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MikeB
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I certainly agree and knew the moment I heard what Trump said that it would cause more protests during the national anthem and not inviting Golden State to the WH will cause NBA protests too no doubt.

I do think the press has been unfair at times to DT but his public statement about anthem protesters just inspires more protests unfortunately.

MikeB
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coltedge
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Ok i get it about oppression. But the fans make the game without them you don't have a game. Can we keep the ideology and politics out of it. If anyone did this in their workplace they would be fired. Also if you want to talk about oppression what about the American Indian whose land we have taken. You don't see them holding protest even though teams across America use their names.
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Posted ImageBent20
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coltedge
Sep 24 2017, 05:22 PM
Ok i get it about oppression. But the fans make the game without them you don't have a game. Can we keep the ideology and politics out of it. If anyone did this in their workplace they would be fired. Also if you want to talk about oppression what about the American Indian whose land we have taken. You don't see them holding protest even though teams across America use their names.
To be fair, no other work place would play the national anthem and expect all of its employees to stand while it is played.
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coltedge
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True but people go and watch the game not to take part in ideology or politics. And isn't the game about the fans????
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isamuelson
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Bent20
Sep 24 2017, 05:33 PM
coltedge
Sep 24 2017, 05:22 PM
Ok i get it about oppression. But the fans make the game without them you don't have a game. Can we keep the ideology and politics out of it. If anyone did this in their workplace they would be fired. Also if you want to talk about oppression what about the American Indian whose land we have taken. You don't see them holding protest even though teams across America use their names.
To be fair, no other work place would play the national anthem and expect all of its employees to stand while it is played.
Most work places don't do it. Sporting events is different. When the national anthem is played, no matter where you are, you should stop and stand and face the flag, and if no flag is viewable, turn in the direction of the music. It's just out of respect for those that have given their lives for this country and the freedoms we have.

Protesting is protesting and it's protected as long as it's peaceful. But I don't consider protesting during the national anthem as proper etiquette. Yes, those men and women who gave up their lives so we have the freedom of speech died for you to have that right. But to do so when we are trying to honor the flag and the nation is spitting on their graves. Protest outside of the game. I didn't see total unity today. Some stood with arms linked, others knelt. That to me is not unity. Either all stand or all kneel. I saw today at the start of the Colts game on TV (normally they don't show it but you KNOW CBS did it to get a rise), I saw #66 of the Browns (Spencer Drango), who was standing with arms linked, turn his eyes towards the players that were kneeling and he had a look of contempt on his face. I can't say for sure if he was upset at them, and maybe he just had a bad case of gas at that moment, but he didn't look happy.

I do not blame them for protesting, but I just don't agree with it during the national anthem. And what was a real kick in the groin was over in London. They knelt for the US national anthem, but stood for God Save The Queen.

Overall, I just wish this crap would end. Did the president say something that should have been kept quiet? Yes, even if many feel that the protesting should be done off the field. I'm just so sick and tired of it that I almost just don't care about the NFL anymore. It's been ruined by all of this for me. Just not sure how much more I can take it.
Edited by isamuelson, Sep 24 2017, 05:48 PM.
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ColtsFan
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Blame inequality if you have a problem with the players taking a knee. You might be sick of hearing about it but they are sick of living it. Can't stick with a damn sports team because they're not all going to "do as they're told and stay in line", then something is wrong with you. Not the players. This is coming from a white guy who is sick of hearing about police getting g away with murdering ppl and getting away with it
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coltedge
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I also think the owners should stay out of it also. It's a game not your soap box for your political agenda. Do i agree with the President obviously no. But do not disrespect the millions who have sacrificed so you can play and make your millions.
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IronPony1965
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i dont even know what they want at this point or what they expect

now it just looks like pouting kids
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Posted ImageBodey
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Going to put my two cents in on this issue. First the act of kneeling during the Anthem personally disgusts me and I think it shows a total lack of respect to this country, those who have served or are currently serving the nation, especially to the families of those who have paid the ultimate price to preserve the freedoms we hold so dear. But with that said, as a strict Constitutionalist, one of those freedoms we enjoy is the freedom of speech. The First Amendment was written to protect speech that is unpopular and/or controversial. Even though I detest this act of disrespecting our flag, it is protected speech.
Now as to the President and his recent comments concerning this issue. Personally, I felt that this issue was starting to fade away and we were seeing less instances of this act. But when he chose the recent campaign rally in Alabama to put forth his views on the subject he put this issue back in the spot light and drew attention to an issue that was fading away. Wrong place and time Mr. President, wrong place and time.
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CanadianColtsFan
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Anyone who stands against this is being foolish. They are not speaking out against the military or against the "values" the flag stands for. They are standing against systemic racism in the US that is showing no signs of going away. Standing against racists who are just looking for a reason to hate those black "sons of bitches" who are kneeling during their precious anthem. They aren't standing for their own oppression, they are standing up for those who have no voice, those who the system has showed little regard for, time and time again.
Edited by CanadianColtsFan, Sep 24 2017, 08:04 PM.
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MrCCCs
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Sep 24 2017, 05:56 PM
Blame inequality if you have a problem with the players taking a knee. You might be sick of hearing about it but they are sick of living it. Can't stick with a damn sports team because they're not all going to "do as they're told and stay in line", then something is wrong with you. Not the players. This is coming from a white guy who is sick of hearing about police getting g away with murdering ppl and getting away with it
Sick of hearing about it, and sick of seeing it broadcast on my TV.

I also think the only recourse should be to stop watching and supporting the activities and venues that promote disrespect to your values and culture. I would hate to give up football, but I'm considering it because I do not agree with this demonstration. Let the players protest, that is their right. It is my right not to support their livelihood, which earns them millions of dollars, while they protest the greatest country in the world with what I consider largely false accusations and misplaced anger.

Police shootings against minorities are disproportionately lower than what the crime rate by those minorities would indicate they should be. While approx 25% of police shootings are against african americans males, those same african american males commit between 55% and 60% of all violent crimes.

There are by far more shootings by african-americans against other african-americans than there are police shootings. If players want to take a knee against that, I would be all for it.

Through great police presences in neighborhoods, gun violence and fatal shootings have dropped dramatically from the rate they were in the 1980's and 1990's. The primary benefactors of this reduction of violence have been predominantly black neighborhoods where thousands of lives have been spared because this country's police force made an intentional effort to help these embattled neighborhoods.

This country has made tremendous strides against racism. I was so happy and proud of my country when we finally looked past a person's color and elected a good candidate in Barack Obama president. Why is racism even more of an issue now? Honest question.

I want to root out the ignorance and sheer stupidity of racism for every aspect of our culture, and know we have much to do. But I truly have no idea why these players are taking a knee other than 'against oppression and injustice', which doesn't help to identify where it is or how to address the issue. I'm absolutely sure, as a white male, that I will be viewed as having no understanding and no right to criticize what is going on, because I'm white and privileged. Fine. Tell me how we make progress and take constructive steps, and not just rant about abstract feelings and perceptions that may not have any real evidence to back them up. It doesn't make it easier, but much harder, when inappropriate judgements of racism are pronounced, poorly conceived protests without clear objectives are held, and accusations of oppression and injustice are raised without factual material upon which to make them. That's why I disapprove of these minor demonstrations. But I will make my opinions known with my lack of support, and not be ranting about it.

I just find it very disappointing that the game I love has been held hostage by the minority of people who want to express their political opinions where I don't think they belong.

Don't mean to be offensive, and yes I do work hard and actively to cross cultures and make meaningful differences to diverse peoples in our country (and abroad). Thus, the long rant (sorry). I want such endeavors to be easier and more effective, and our current climate is making it worse.

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Posted ImageBent20
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I don't see where what they're doing is disrespectful. They're not turning their backs on the flag, not talking or showing disinterest in the anthem. Some even kneel with their hands still over their chest or with their arms interlocked to show unity with the rest of the team.
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MrCCCs
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I can see your point, Bent. Truth be told, this isn't that dramatic. I have a bit more problem with teams who don't even come out for the National Anthem. That is showing disrespect for the country. Still, for most people, kneeling specifically for the National Anthem definitely IS disrespectful to a country they love and country people have fought and died for. I'm not saying their right, just that that is how they perceive it. Too extreme a reaction to the situation? Maybe. Depends on what the message is and their specific reason for kneeling. Wish I knew what it was, other than vague generalities that seem frustratingly difficult to address.

So I definitely speak from that frustration, and I probably make a bigger deal of it than I should and you're right to question me on that. I question myself a lot.

This is a good conversation to have. I look forward to other viewpoints.
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coltedge
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I get the plight but not the right stage for it. The ones receiving a mixed message is the youth of this country. Who can explain what is the message for them? We teach them to love their country and to respect it. If it's for all the violence and oppression for everyone then it is understood. I just wish they would stand during the anthem. Show what this country really stands for!!!!
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isamuelson
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coltedge
Sep 25 2017, 05:32 AM
I get the plight but not the right stage for it. The ones receiving a mixed message is the youth of this country. Who can explain what is the message for them? We teach them to love their country and to respect it. If it's for all the violence and oppression for everyone then it is understood. I just wish they would stand during the anthem. Show what this country really stands for!!!!
That's where parents need to step back in and not just let the schools teach them everything. Parenting means raising your kids with the right values, the right attitudes and to quit relying on the education system to teach everything to our children. Not all parents are that way, but it appears as if there are a lot that just ship their kids off to school and expect the school to raise their kids. I'm not saying most parents, but it does appear to be an alarmingly high rate.
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Gary1888
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Bodey
Sep 24 2017, 07:52 PM
Going to put my two cents in on this issue. First the act of kneeling during the Anthem personally disgusts me and I think it shows a total lack of respect to this country, those who have served or are currently serving the nation, especially to the families of those who have paid the ultimate price to preserve the freedoms we hold so dear. But with that said, as a strict Constitutionalist, one of those freedoms we enjoy is the freedom of speech. The First Amendment was written to protect speech that is unpopular and/or controversial. Even though I detest this act of disrespecting our flag, it is protected speech.
Now as to the President and his recent comments concerning this issue. Personally, I felt that this issue was starting to fade away and we were seeing less instances of this act. But when he chose the recent campaign rally in Alabama to put forth his views on the subject he put this issue back in the spot light and drew attention to an issue that was fading away. Wrong place and time Mr. President, wrong place and time.
I don't disagree with you Bodey but as intolerant as the left has become, there is never a right time and place for anybody right of Bernie Sanders to express their opinion without being labeled and shouted down. In the eyes of the left, freedom of speech ends where their beliefs end. All others need not apply.
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Posted ImageBent20
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Gary1888
Sep 25 2017, 08:35 AM
Bodey
Sep 24 2017, 07:52 PM
Going to put my two cents in on this issue. First the act of kneeling during the Anthem personally disgusts me and I think it shows a total lack of respect to this country, those who have served or are currently serving the nation, especially to the families of those who have paid the ultimate price to preserve the freedoms we hold so dear. But with that said, as a strict Constitutionalist, one of those freedoms we enjoy is the freedom of speech. The First Amendment was written to protect speech that is unpopular and/or controversial. Even though I detest this act of disrespecting our flag, it is protected speech.
Now as to the President and his recent comments concerning this issue. Personally, I felt that this issue was starting to fade away and we were seeing less instances of this act. But when he chose the recent campaign rally in Alabama to put forth his views on the subject he put this issue back in the spot light and drew attention to an issue that was fading away. Wrong place and time Mr. President, wrong place and time.
I don't disagree with you Bodey but as intolerant as the left has become, there is never a right time and place for anybody right of Bernie Sanders to express their opinion without being labeled and shouted down. In the eyes of the left, freedom of speech ends where their beliefs end. All others need not apply.
It's not just the left. You see that from the right, too. It's why we're so divided as a country right now and the president just keeps throwing more and more gasoline on the inferno. Both sides need to listen more and dig in their heals less.
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Gary1888
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Don't disagree with you either Bent but I don't see liberal speakers having speaking engagements cancelled due to the threats of violence. As far as Trump throwing gasoline on it, again...a persons opinion...and that all his statement was, his opinion that the NFL should fire players who take a knee...is only gasoline because it doesn't fall in line with the thinking of the left. Would you see this uproar from the right if the situation was reversed? Take what Advanced said originally concerning the Confederate flag and add the Southern Civil War monuments. With these being removed, do you see riots in the streets and protest against the country in those areas by citizens on the right? Now reverse these and what do you think happens? I agree there are extremists on both sides that will always be a problem but what is allowed from the left is a whole lot broader field...in my opinion.

Edited to add I do think Trump was wrong in using the term Son of a bitches in his comment. I missed that but was reminded when I heard somebody else comment on it.
Edited by Gary1888, Sep 25 2017, 12:32 PM.
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Rjinda
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Haven't commented too much on this topic. I'm concerned that it seems every thing has become so political yet we have two political parties who's objectives are to make the other guy look bad so they can raise money and win elections.

There is almost no collaboration across party lines. They use issues like race to fire up the base and we all now talk at each other rather than listening to another view and trying to forge a solution. I love history and I am currently in the process of reading at least one biography on each US president. We have had many tough elections but what is almost always true is that after it was over both parties worked together for the good of the people. Now issues are used more as fund raising tools and are never looked at in a bipartisan way and we allow it to happen.

As for my thoughts on this issue. I don't like the act of kneeling but it is a protected act and I'm glad I live in a country that allows this type of free speech. There is racism in our country and probably every other country in the world but probably less today than at any other time in our history despite what we see on the news. I also believe that many more black lives have been saved by police officers than taken. I also don't believe you can give every police officer a pass when they are involved in a shooting. I'm also not black and have never been pulled over by a police officer for simply being in the "wrong neighborhood".

Until we hold politician's more accountable and start talking to each other instead of at each other nothing will change.
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ColtsFan
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If you're sick of it being broadcast on your TV then speak up! Speak up against the unequal treatment that minorities face on a daily basis. Then the players will stop kneeling and the media will finally stop talking about it, just like you're hoping
Nobody in the nfl stood for the anthem before the military started paying the league to start doing patriotic events. That is a fact. Where was the outrage then? It wasn't even 10 years ago
Can we get a mod to put this in "the pub"? This isn't football talk
Edited by ColtsFan, Sep 25 2017, 11:29 AM.
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